Suggest New Bands and Artists

Print Page | Close Window

Jack Bruce

Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=52674
Printed Date: July 28 2025 at 16:02
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com

Topic: Jack Bruce

Posted By: micky
Subject: Jack Bruce
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 11:38

Jack Bruce has been proposed to J-R team for inclusion.. a no brainer addition.. hell.. he's on the most catholic prog site of all .. GEPR. so about time we get him here.

So a thread to share your thoughts.... if you were aware he didn't disappear after Cream and has had one hell of a solo career

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Replies:

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 12:15

hmmm... a thread I suspect that is not going to get a lot of responses...

for the tags and labellers out there... a nice review of 'Things we Like' to chew on..

"Things We Like" is a critical album in understanding the development of jazz rock fusion, not necessarily for it's combination of acoustic jazz and electric rock (it doesn't) but more for the freedom of playing that it allows the musicians. It has an innocence shared by similar landmark albums like Chick Corea's "Tones For Jones Bones", McLaughlin/Surman's "Where Fortune Smiles", and especially Miroslav Vitous' "Infinite Search" and "Purple". McLaughlin is definitely touting a freeform freedom he would further explore in moving to Germany by November of that year to play with Gunter Hampel, and hints of his upcoming soloing genius on "Extrapolation", but he is also happy to take a back seat and provide that amazingly chunky comping like no other. Heckstall-Smith remembers McLaughlin turned up to Bruce's sessions after running into each other at Pete Brown's pad. John just joined in without rehearsal." Bruce remembers it differently, that he saw McLaughlin skulking along, low after a sessionman gig for Decca, broke and with not enough money to get him to the US where Tony Williams was waiting for him to form Lifetime. This album gave him that financial opportunity. Whatever the circumstance, this was a journeyman already in search of a bigger meaning, pleased to learn from all contexts.

Charles Mingus was supposed to be a major influence for the album's style, but followers of Ornette Coleman will definitely hear parallels, especially when Heckstall-Smith blows brass and woodwind simultaneously. Bruce's acoustic basslines have that Charlie Haden upturned finish too, quite unlike his electric playing. It is time-signature, pulsating modern post bebop at its best. Rarely ponderous, it gets down to the job fast and keeps the pace alive, lending most soloing space to sax, some exposure for guitar, little for the rhythm section. It's tight and mighty.

However, the album was not a popular one. Firstly it was an in-your-face-as-far-as-you-can-get-away-as-possible-from-the-soon-to-be-disbanded-supergroup-Cream (it was recorded in August just before the Cream Farewell Tour of 22 shows at 19 venues in the United States between October 4 and November 4, 1968, and two final farewell concerts at the Royal Albert Hall on November 26, 1968). Even the album's title seems to make a statement about Bruce's preferred musical avenue over rock, and an attitude that some fans who may blame Bruce for the break up of Cream, consider salt in the wound. Or you could make the effort to find out the facts ("Things We Like" was the title of a grade school textbook Jack used as a boy), or you could read the title simply as an expression of joy to be among fellow-minded jazzers, old friends from the session underground, Soho pubs and London club scene, who have gathered to realise one of Jack's dreams of recording his long-penned (since age 11!) pieces that Cream could never have played like they needed to be played. He was afterall just going back to what he used to do before Cream. And thank goodness for his strength of character, rather than selling out to the temptation of repeating the rock success, he refused the money and concentrated on songwriting to produce "Songs For A Tailor" an amazing showcase of his melodic lyrical playing and singing style. This is not an essay on Bruce's career, so suffice to note that his and John McLaughlin's paths soon crossed again in Tony William's Lifetime and on "Escalator Over The Hill", but thank goodness they had this outing. Wonderfully exciting, memorable tunes that point to jazz's future paths like the other landmark exploratory albums of the time. By building on the old-world legacy, incredibly and minutely.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 12:35

Incidentally, I've just put on Colosseum's third studio album, Daughter of Time, which features a song by Jack Bruce, "Tales from an Imaginary Western" (another one, "Rope Ladder to the Moon", was included on Valentyne Suite). The late, great Dick Heckstall-Smith was, of course, a founding member of Colosseum.

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 14:29

And don't forget Bruce had played with McLaughlin, probably briefly in 1964-5 in Graham Bond's Organisation; apparently Organisation's drummer Ginger Baker fired McLaughlin (doing Bond's dirty jobs). That didn't stop Bruce Baker and McLaughlin backing a little time later ex rock'n'roller turned R'nB vocalist/harp-player Duffy Power on a several recordings. Bruce appeared with McLaughlin and Tony Williams on the former's Electric Guitarist. It is also possible Bruce introduced Allan Holdsworth to Tony Williams - there is a missing-link (i.e. between two classic Lifetime line-ups) bootleg of Williams, Holdsworth & Bruce recorded in Stockholm called Wildlife. Then those legendary Sherwood Tapes demos by Holdsworth Bruce and Hiseman. A lot of inter-relationships here, reinforcing the concept that Jack is and has long been one of the great rock innovators - vocalist, player, composer, improvisor since the early 60's. And don't get me started on the Michael Mantler and Kip Hanrahan collaborations/recordings of the 80's and those very individual CMP Records recordings of the 90's......

There is much there of relevance wrt biography, JackBruce's life story here should be long one.

-------------
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Posted By: febus
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 14:43

I don't know about that! ...

''Things we like'' is a JAZZ album to my ears and the rest of his solo output,( i have 4 of his albums), I never thought of any prog connection when i listen to them .

I listen to HARMONY ROW, OUT OF THE STORM and HOW'S TRICKS regularly once in a while, i like them. but prog?/ not even prog related to me......but that's just me!!

However, he should be placed on a pedestal if there is any Rock archives.com.

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 15:02

febus wrote:

I don't know about that! ...

''Things we like'' is a JAZZ album to my ears and the rest of his solo output,( i have 4 of his albums), I never thought of any prog connection when i listen to them .

Made at the height of some great British jazz experimentation at the end of the 60's - wasn't there ~2 years delay between recording Things and its release date? BTW does the recording date chronology go:

Experiments with Pops (Gordon Beck with "Johnny" McLaughlin)
Extrapolation (McLaughlin with John Surman)
Things We Like (Bruce with McLaughlin)
Way Back When : (John Surman )
Where Fortune Smiles (McLaughlin, Surman etc. - Brits in a NYC recording studio, I think)

And I've not touched on Ian Carr (pe-Nucleus)/Don Rendell and Mike Westbrook's (with Surman in his band) impact at around the same time. British jazz rock was to in part come from these directions

-------------
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 16:40

Wow, Jack Bruce! I bought Songs for a Tailor when it came out. Excellent album, which as mentioned above contains the great Theme for an Imaginary Western, which was covered excellently by Mountain, on Mountain Climbing I think. I then bought Things We Like, which was quite obtuse to my 16/17-year-old mind, but it certainly prepared me to be accepting of McLaughlin's Extrapolation.

Somewhere around here I have a copy of Live at the Manchester Free Trade Hall, with Carla Bley and Mick Taylor, which has stuff from Songs... and Harmony Row on it.

All in all I think he's a deserving addition, though I'm not sure where he belongs, categorically speaking.

Posted By: Angelo
Date Posted: October 18 2008 at 17:01

Just read that he's playing a gig in our neighbourhood end of february next year. I'll be there for sure. Thanks to Dick H. I fell in love with the album This That, by the brilliant gang of Dick Heckstall-Smith - Jack Bruce - John Stevens...

As for the site: if Bruces proposed for J-R I'll rely on the judgement of the J-R team, since I know too little of Bruce's post Cream career. As a bass player, I should be ashamed...

-------------
http://www.iskcrocks.com" rel="nofollow - ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]

Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 19 2008 at 15:04

Goods albums make old Jack, i strongly support his addition

-------------

Posted By: Eetu Pellonpaa
Date Posted: October 20 2008 at 10:00

I have Jack's "Deserted Cities of The Heart" double CD live, which was recorded in the 90's I recall. Quite good album, there's lot's of really jazzy stuff goin' on within a rock context. Some songs are not highly experimental, but anyway his stuff doesn't sound that it would have been done to please the markets. An obvious reason for his works not being so widely known.

Hmm, quite silly reply as I can't truly form a clear opinion about the inclusion decision, but I couldn't resist writing.

Maybe I thoguht I might get a recommendation of his albums on basis of liking the mentioned live album?

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 05:19

Jack Bruce has been approved for J-R/F. and will be working on the addition. Will take some time to do a bio that fits the artist. Hopefully will have him added in a week or so. Will try to get it this weekend since my weeks are pretty much shot to hell.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 05:38

a clear resounding Yes for me, although this will defintely open the door for Cream

I also asked about Jack Bruce's lyricist Pete Brown in the collab zone....

if i could have some input......

-------------
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 05:59

I'll check where you asked about Pete Brown Hugues.. missed that..

and re: Cream.

NO NO and NO again...

that the danger if X then Y. read the above review of 'Things we Like' not to mention the liner notes to Songs for a Tailor. Cream and JB were two completely different musical entities. His solo career was an exploration of HIS musical love... jazz. Cream has no place here IMO. Progressive rock was a reaction against... exactly that kind of music.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 09:08

micky wrote:

I'll check where you asked about Pete Brown Hugues.. missed that..

and re: Cream.

NO NO and NO again...

that the danger if X then Y. read the above review of 'Things we Like' not to mention the liner notes to Songs for a Tailor. Cream and JB were two completely different musical entities. His solo career was an exploration of HIS musical love... jazz. Cream has no place here IMO. Progressive rock was a reaction against... exactly that kind of music.

I could easily argue you out of your arguments for Cream

(ex: Bruce and Baker laughing together and saying to az journalist that Cream was a jazz band, only they didn't tell Eric) , but shall not do it for it is Bruce we're looking at. here...

Let's not forget Bruce's appearan,ce in Soft Machine (Land Of Cockayne) and in Tony Williaùs' Lifetimùe as well.

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 10:24

micky wrote:

Progressive rock was a reaction against... exactly that kind of music.

I would strongly refute that suggestion - in theory the "reaction against" argument may be used in the context of punk and the dynosaurs of rock. Prog rock grew out of, in part, the (British) blues boom of the mid to late 60's. In deed, how many prog music/progressive rock bands continued to use blues: Colosseum for a start. Micky take a look at the first prog rock sampler listed here, Wowie Zowie The World Of Progressive Music, and you'll find at least 2 straight blues tracks not a million millions from Cream - and at the time we did not think their inclusion was out of place. How much did Tull's first album take from the lead of Cream - even the track Cat Squirrel is lifted from the first Cream album? And let me repeat us old freaks in our late teens would have found Canned Heat and John Mayall in the section labelled "Progressive Music" in record shops.

Indeed in part the confidence rock musicians gain from the likes of Cream's ability to jam and display virtuosity, the ability to improv like jazz musicians, contributed moving from 3 minute pop songs, to compositions/arrangements that could hold together for a side of an LP. BTW I'm not saying that blues was the major component rather an equal component. e.g. Listening to Jefferson Airplane's Bless Its Pointed Little Head recently, and reminded you get the blues biassed Casidy and Kaukonen infusing the psychedelia of the rest of the band, on longish jams.

-------------
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 11:14

Sean Trane wrote:

a clear resounding Yes for me, although this will defintely open the door for Cream

I also asked about Jack Bruce's lyricist Pete Brown in the collab zone....

if i could have some input......

Pete Brown could stand by himself - several albums issued by Harvest Records, under the names Pete Brown and Pibokto or Pete Brown & The Battered Ornaments. Heckstall-Smith and Spedding passed through these bands. BTW there is a whacky version of Bruce-Brown's Politician on one album (Things May Come.....?) which owes very little to the blues. On his blog, Sid Smith reviewed a compilation of his music issued by Harvest a few years ago:

http://sidsmith.blogspot.com/2006/06/living-life-backwards-best-of-pete.html - http://sidsmith.blogspot.com/2006/06/living-life-backwards-best-of-pete.html

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/3049/1158/1600/Pete%20Brown.jpg">

Brown also pulled together a host of international blues players for a tribute album he produced: Rattlesnake Guitar: The Music Of Peter Green. This album has some importance being the last recordings done by Rory Gallagher, and Harvey Mandell contributed on a couple of tracks.

-------------
The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php
Host by PA's Dick Heath.

Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 14:27

Dick Heath wrote:

micky wrote:

Progressive rock was a reaction against... exactly that kind of music.

I would strongly refute that suggestion - in theory the "reaction against" argument may be used in the context of punk and the dynosaurs of rock. Prog rock grew out of, in part, the (British) blues boom of the mid to late 60's. In deed, how many prog music/progressive rock bands continued to use blues: Colosseum for a start. Micky take a look at the first prog rock sampler listed here, Wowie Zowie The World Of Progressive Music, and you'll find at least 2 straight blues tracks not a million millions from Cream - and at the time we did not think their inclusion was out of place. How much did Tull's first album take from the lead of Cream - even the track Cat Squirrel is lifted from the first Cream album? And let me repeat us old freaks in our late teens would have found Canned Heat and John Mayall in the section labelled "Progressive Music" in record shops.

Yes i agreed with that, prog rock was NOT a reaction to the music of Cream, Blues always have been a part of Prog Rock, This Was, first JT album was launched in the shadow of Cream succes.

-------------

Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 14:29

Dick and no forget Piblotko and Battered Ornaments, group in when Pete collaborate.

-------------

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 31 2008 at 18:18

sh*t... I know better than to argue with you.. so I won't LOL

I was a glint in my damned parents eye and you were there hahahha. Which is why I take your word as the frickin gospel man...

however.....I do love learning.. and listening..and a good discussion...so.... I type away with my thoughts. tell me if I am full of sh*t.. LOL

Dick Heath wrote:

micky wrote:

Progressive rock was a reaction against... exactly that kind of music.

I would strongly refute that suggestion - in theory the "reaction against" argument may be used in the context of punk and the dynosaurs of rock. Prog rock grew out of, in part, the (British) blues boom of the mid to late 60's.

yes it did grow out of it... key word.. OUT of it..

the blues boom you speak of quickly, in the late 60's, became the psychedelic movement... groups like the Stones dipped their toes but generally stayed away from it and always remained true to American blues inspired music... and away from prog rock completely. However to simpify .. English psychedelic rock of the 60's can be said to have broken into three wings...

one dominated by the Yardbirds, Hendrix and Cream. That featured simple blues-based harmonic progression, and repetitive guitar riffs. Keyboards and vocal harmonies that were so prominent in progressive rock were largely absent.

a second ...dominated by Traffic, Colesseum and the Canterbury dynamic duo. That used woodwinds in addition to progressive rock standard of keyboards, and bass, guitar, and drums. Harmonic patterns were MUCH more complex than the psychedelic branch noted above. Of course this was the roots of what you know well as English Jazz-Rock. Which Jack Bruce identified much more than his work with Cream.

the third.. what we largely consider proto prog here.. or did before many started being moved... were groups such as Moody Blues, Nice, Procol Harem and of course Floyd. Where large scale construction was emphasized over getting your rocks off with lengthy guitar jams based on simple blues progressions.

if that breakdown has some merit Richard... then is it fair not to say that progressive rock.. was in a way a reaction to ...an opposite of in a way to what Cream, Hendrix and the Yardbirds were doing. Of course blues has always had a place in prog... but we are not exactly talking about the Blues here... we are talking the fragmentation of the psychedelic movement which was what gave birth to prog. In that case... groups like Cream, Hendrix, and the Yardbirds... and I will add the Allman Brothers.. who have as much a musical case for entry as any of them.. were on the psychedelic raft that got left behind when when progressive rock.. or Prog.. since the two can be interchangable.. or seperate. As I like to say.. what made the music of that time so great.. was it was ALL progressive... but maybe it is just me.. prog rock as we define it here....is a subset of that. of 'progressive rock'

In deed, how many prog music/progressive rock bands continued to use blues: Colosseum for a start. Micky take a look at the first prog rock sampler listed here, Wowie Zowie The World Of Progressive Music, and you'll find at least 2 straight blues tracks not a million millions from Cream - and at the time we did not think their inclusion was out of place. How much did Tull's first album take from the lead of Cream - even the track Cat Squirrel is lifted from the first Cream album? And let me repeat us old freaks in our late teens would have found Canned Heat and John Mayall in the section labelled "Progressive Music" in record shops.

I couldn't agree more with the rest... and if we are to recognize that as being prog... I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem with it. I have had to fight off the impulse to call for The Allman Brothers to be here. Raff tells me all the time I should suggest them. If the bar is adjusted to that level. They, my ALLTIME favorite group.. is a shoe in here It is not exactly how I see prog... my mantra.. prog is art.... auditory art.. .there is an artistic asethtic to it.. not just about improv.. great solos or lengthy compositions... but it was about rock made BY well off, well educated English musicians in that day for audiences that were the same. My two cents my friend... curious as to what you think. I don't think they ... Cream, Hendrix or the Yardbirds...belong here... but who the hell am I. Just an asshole with an opinion hahahha Wink

cheers Richard.. and I'll be working on a JB bio this weekend and throwing it your way to have you look at it.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 12:13

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Lynyrd on PA, if ABB is in?????

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:11

Sean Trane wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Lynyrd on PA, if ABB is in?????

the day that group is added here is the day I leave....

absolutely no musical comparison....only geographic the Allman Brothers Band celebrated the great ...the only real American contributions to music.. jazz and blues... that other group... celebrated and reinforcing EVERY negative stereotype that exists about southerners and rednecks in general... we know it here in the states. That is why the ABB band was ushered into the R&R HoF quicker than quick... and LS was purposefully snubbed for years.

edit.. read the liner notes to Kind of Blue... Duane Allman and the ABB are mentioned specifically and prominently in the retrospective of how infuential Miles Davis was. You find LS mentioned in ads for Rebel Yell whiskey and ads for f**king fishing gear hahahhaha

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 03 2008 at 16:15

by the way.. got about half way through JB's bio.. should have it done by the end of the week.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: June
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 20:50

Ah, Atavachron was kind enough to indicate me the way toward this thread. I have originally added this to the LZ thread, and it's mostly for sheer entertainment value, because I'd love to hear a live version of this interview with Jack going "eff this" and "eff LZ' in that adorable diluted Scot accent of his... and because it's always fun to hear was some musicians truly think about their colleagues

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap - http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap

Don't get me wrong, I love both Cream and Led Zeppelin. Still enjoying Seven Moons too.

Posted By: June
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 20:53

micky wrote:

by the way.. got about half way through JB's bio.. should have it done by the end of the week.

Oh cool, didn't know he had one!

What's the title? Any good?

Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 20:57

^ micky means he's almost finished writing Bruce's bio for here at PA

Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 04 2008 at 22:55

June wrote:

micky wrote:

by the way.. got about half way through JB's bio.. should have it done by the end of the week.

Oh cool, didn't know he had one!

What's the title? Any good?

Yeah...that would be good reading though!!!!

That's why I love forums.

-------------
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 06:26

June wrote:

Ah, Atavachron was kind enough to indicate me the way toward this thread. I have originally added this to the LZ thread, and it's mostly for sheer entertainment value, because I'd love to hear a live version of this interview with Jack going "eff this" and "eff LZ' in that adorable diluted Scot accent of his... and because it's always fun to hear was some musicians truly think about their colleagues

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap - http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap

Don't get me wrong, I love both Cream and Led Zeppelin. Still enjoying Seven Moons too.

hahhahahhahahaha... you rock June... . hadn't seen that... here.. have some clappies... that is priceless.

Clap

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 15:02

micky wrote:

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap - http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap

Don't get me wrong, I love both Cream and Led Zeppelin. Still enjoying Seven Moons too.

hahhahahhahahaha... you rock June... . hadn't seen that... here.. have some clappies... that is priceless.

Clap

Seems a little angry to Jack or little envy to, the Led Zep Gig wasn't the ultimate wonder of the world but the Creams gigs neither.

I heard those BTW.

-------------

Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: November 05 2008 at 17:04

http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap - http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/page/classicrock?entry=led_zeppelin_you_re_crap

Don't get me wrong, I love both Cream and Led Zeppelin. Still enjoying Seven Moons too.

Yowza! Well, there's a man not afraid to speak his mind. Confused

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: November 07 2008 at 17:24

that he is not... the world needs more of them LOL

He doesn't have to like the group does he... if you are Jack Bruce.. you can really SAY what you think of a group.

anyhow... hope to have his bio finished and JB added this weekend.

-------------
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip