Petition to change site's drug discussion policy
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements
Forum Name: Help us improve the site
Forum Description: Help us improve the forums, and the site as a whole
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55853
Printed Date: July 18 2025 at 02:05
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Petition to change site's drug discussion policy
Posted By: stonebeard
Subject: Petition to change site's drug discussion policy
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 20:47
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Can we expect to make progress as a society if we cannot advocate changing a law, which would in turn be implying something is not as bad as once thought? Now, does this sort of thing really matter a whole lot? No, this is the internet after all. But it's a few lines of text and it would be no inconvenience. And for the sake of what's right and what's just, why not do it, even if it does not move the world? A few more points: 1. What does Prog Archives have to fear from even the most liberal of pro-drug advocations? Is the government (first of all, which one) going to come arrest M@X? Are children going to be any more likely to do drugs if we talk about them? (As if they don't know everything about drugs anyway--this is a prog site. Don't be naive.) 2. As far as I know, Canada has drastically liberal marijuana laws compared the the US and Europe, and if the site is registered under a non-US domain (I don't know if it is), then why should it have to conform to more draconian attitudes toward drug use and discussion such as those in the US? 3. On that same point, if marijuana in particular is legal in some instances and places, then it is in fact not illegal to talk about or consume it, so once again, why should PA conform to any particular country's standard, especially since I find it highly dubious that there will be any legal consequences for mere discussion. 4. There is no moral issue. PA has no moral responsibility toward "protecting" anyone from drug use. This kind of talk about mere "protection" is the kind of hubris that gets in the way of real discussion and progress anyway. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Replies:
Posted By: rileydog22
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:02
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M@X wants a strict drug discussion policy. M@X owns the site. It's that simple. It's not a legal or moral issue, it's a the-guy-who-owns-the-site-says-no issue. -------------   |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:03
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^ Then it's a petition to change M@X's mind. It's that simple.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:10
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I agree with Stonebeard's OP. I also agree with Jake in that nothing will change. ------------- 
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Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:21
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Nothing will change if we start talking about it either. There are many valuable contributors here that aren't comfortable with those discussions; out of respect for them I suggest we let them have this place the way they want it to. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:21
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I suspect most of the people here have pretty liberal views as you do but does the policy detract from our ability to talk about prog music?
For me, it's kind of like an 80 year old man talking about sex....the train's left the station. Working where there's random drops and having children who depend on you....it doesn't matter if it's just or moral or anything else. No buzz is worth threatening your family's security. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:21
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I petition Harry stop changing his f**king avatar.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:22
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^I've changed my avatar 4 times in the entire time I've been at this site.
-------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:28
Three times within the past month, I think.  Let's see...green man, High School Musical, Pokemon, and now Mario. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
HughesJB4 wrote:Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:35
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what's with all the communist avatars?
don't you know, in Soviet Russia avatar changes you -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:37
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I agree but it will not happen. Sadly. Taboos will always exist. ------------- 
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:41
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petition to change progarchives' drum discussion policy:
no more peart vs bruford ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:43
+1 -------------
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:44
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Personally I think the drugs discussions should be taken elsewhere. Two years ago my older sister was buried after 25 years of abuse, and now her 16 yo daughter is now having serious drug problems as well. Both of them incidentally utilizing the same lines of arguments regarding drug policies as the liberal drug users in these debates from day 1 - with the end result of 1 dead and 1 on the start of a long decline into hell. Due to that I have two points in why these kinds of debates should stay off the forums here: 1. For me personally it's emotionally very hurtful in a manner of ways 2. I know for a fact that debates like this, obviously held elsewhere, were instigators for what ended up as serious drug abuse for both my sister and my niece. How many of you liberals out there would want to take the responsibility if your arguments were the direct cause of one individual deciding to try drugs, and then finding out that it wasn't controllable, leading to abuse and an early death? ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:49
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sdfg |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:55
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Well the question is which drugs? I think it would be reasonable to talk about any kind of drug, but there are 3 distinctive categories in my view. Surely we can talk about medicinal drugs, I think we can agree those are in a separate category. I also think that Hard Recreational Drugs are worth talking about, but generally bad. But a distinction that goes unseen is the one between Hard Drugs and Soft/Hallucinogenic/Spiritual drugs. There is a considerable amount of ignorant prejudice towards these. For example, DMT. DMT is a chemical that is found in many different forms of plants and roots as well as most life forms on the planet, humans included. The Pineal Gland (in the brain) produces and releases DMT at night (it is speculated to be a dream). It's also released at moment of extrmelely high stress (speculated to be a Near-Death Experience). DMT is non-toxic and non-addictive, and biologically natural. It has also been used by Shamans in south America and Mexico for thousands of years in religious ritual. However, DMT is as illegal as LSD. Could that not make for an interesting and innocent, legal discussion? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 21:55
...and with that I think the second point is pretty much proven. And for information: Progarchives is not (to my knowledge) associated with the government in any way. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:03
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sdfg |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:07
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Even removing these discussions from this site won't eradicate them from everyone's lives entirely anyway. I'd like to think this is an open-minded, mature, progressive forum, so I think it would be reasonable to allow a topic like drugs to be discussed. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:07
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What Shakes said just then +1
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:34
Sorry to hear your story Olav, as i said before. Just a reminder that there's a;lways two sides to a coin. I was an addict for three and a half years going quickly to the grave. I fled. I run away from the problem and was saved. I saved myself by coming to America. Now I've been clean for 3 and a half years and forever. And you know what? Discussion would've been of a lot of help for me when I was younger and felt indestructible. Discussion, now I know, would help others.
believe me, for me it's actually a duty to say what i know about the subject which might well be more than most people on this site because I, myself, lived through it. And tabbo-izing problems is and will always be the best way to approach issues. Discussion is what opens minds and hearts. taboos and secrets are just hidden backdoors....
My opinion anyway. And yes, i'm pro-legalizing. And yes, even though I said that, promoting the use of drugs, just like promoting anything that can hurt you, shouldn't be allowed. But discussing it should always be.
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:36
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asdf |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:49
Correct your thinking Pnoom which is usually sharp... Driving can hurt... in a small percentage of cases.. it's a safe thing that is done for a reason and if it hurts you it is because some idiots just don't care about the rest or because someone is actually driving under the influence.....
Drug-using will hurt you if it's done to an excess (in cases like marijuana) or even a few times (like heroin or crack which can make you an addict almost overnight. PROVEN fact). It's not an safe thing as it's not done for any useful reason other than experimenting... in any other case, is more than likely escapism or selfishness and extreme egocentriscm... That's what drugs make you... A person that 110% only thinks about him/herself... without actually thinking...
My reasons for legalizing are not let's give everybody some drugs! but because it's actually better for actually stopping the machinery of drug trade and because it will make it safer for addicts and stop many overdoses, besides many more reasons that I'm too tired now to describe... -------------
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:54
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asdf |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:55
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sdfg |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 22:59
According to http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30 Annual deaths in the United States related to car accidents: 26,347 Annual deaths in the United States related to marijuana usage: 0 Annual deaths in the United States related to all illicit drug use: 17,000 Annual deaths in the United States related to tobacco products: 435,000 I'm not saying pot doesn't have negative side effects, but just look at the staggering number of cigarette deaths compared to a big fat goose egg for marijuana. We shouldn't discuss fast food in here either because 365,000 people died of health problems related to poor diet and exercise. No one here is advocating drugs (yet, at least), but there's no reason at all not to discuss things. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:00
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asdf |
Posted By: 1800iareyay
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:04
Well, I'm not pushing for the legalization of all drugs. Pot is the only one I think should be allowed. 0 multiplied by 10,000 is still 0. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:19
This debate is very passionate for me and I'll love to go on all night because i happen to have insider information on this subject... but i'm too tired and actually kind of ill... so very quickly before going to sleep:
I have always said that Marijuana is far less damaging than alcohol or other things that are legal and even celebrated... And I haven't said we shouldn't discuss it. Actually, I'm an advocate of that. What I said is, we definitely don't want to promote it. Remember, as much as we think is not, it can be a gateway drug. I have a very very very close example of that... one of my best friends... and an even closer one, myself!
Discussion and debating, always. Promoting? Not yet there sir. Though I can say I was never an addict to the green thing, and it's very difficult for it to create addiction (only psychological dependence really). But promoting it is promoting the main gateway for all the REAL drugs... -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:27
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Again, my brain is boiling right now, feel very ill, so I'll be quick and my last post tonight...
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)Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:28
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:34
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asdf |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:36
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Finally, and sorry for stealing the thread, I have to say this: This site is a music forum where we discuss all kinds of things. As much as I agree on the fact that a more liberal approach to discuss this subject should be had, I don't see any reasons why this should in any shape of form come to define PA. As with any controversial subjects, it should be free to pop up from time to time (like religion or any other) but I wouldn't like the "general discussions forum" suddenly filled with daily new threads about drugs. just like any other subject, if somepone comes up with a good topic, it will live on. But we shouldn't promote the discussion of this subject as much as we don't promote the discussion of ANY subject but MUSIC. -------------
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:37
i'm more confused than before... maybe with my own words actually...  Whatever, you got the long post.
Good night for now... -------------
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:52
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Personnaly, I have very sadly realized that discussing politics, religion, drugs and the human condition is endlessly futile. Its mostly self-glorifying pseudo-intellectual verbal (or written) diarrhea with absolute no eventual conformism possible. We are all fallable creatures who spend youth thinking of invincibilty and at the same times blundering our way through life. With maturity comes the realization that drinking too much water will kill you, that regardless what you say and how just is your case you will never change the world , it changes itself on its own terms! A zebra is not a white animal with black stripes one day and the next a black one with white stripes, a zebra is a zebra. I agree with not discussing drugs on this site because like the above mentioned subjects, debating it will matter little in the grand scheme of things. The only people who have slightly progressed are us "prog" fans because we still like to be a tad rebellious in our musical tastes and it won't hurt anyone . I lost many friends to death by overdose but even more through speed on the highway and crashing into James Dean-land. Perhaps and once more, I remind myself of french philosopher JJ Rousseau's brilliant quote: "the more I analyze the human race , the more I love my dog". The French also say "Faut pas chercher a comprendre!" = Don't try to understand. Dealing with drugs/alcohol is a very difficukt thing because somehow , somewhere , we are all nihilists only occasionally happy and extremely fragile. mailto:M@x - M@x understands this and maybe we should too. It has nothing to do with freedom, censorship, tyranny, taboo, shame, guilt or control. Shall we talk about suicide, arguably the most censored subject anywhere (See the "Life of Others" oscar winning foreign movie set in the GDR, where suicides were er......."Illegal" ). No, let it be. ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: February 23 2009 at 23:56
...and driving under the influence is in the top 5 list of the cause of car accidents. True enough, that includes alcohol - and many cases of combination abuse like alcohol and pot. And a nice little hypothetical question: Would you like to get on an airplane controlled by a pilot who just had a joint? It will never be legal no, but legalization will increase the number of people doing stuff like that. Pilots selected as an example due to this being a typical occupation that involves stress situations, and a regular need to calm down. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 00:50
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asdf |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 00:54
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asdf |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 00:55
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asdf |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 01:01
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asdf |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 01:15
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^ The basic principle is that drug usage in whatever form is frowned upon here on PA, and discussions advocating mostly illegal substances is frowned upon too. I reckon respect that guideline or consider frequenting other forums with drug induced discussion theories, that do I am sure fill up cyberspace in abundance.
It is that simple really, not being rude, just move on................conversationally speaking. Agree to disagree. ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Dalezilla
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 01:46
| Marijuana is not a gateway drug. I'll back up my claim after work... |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 02:48
Succinctly put - please bear in mind if you want to discuss or promote any illegal activities, be it drug use, file swapping or anything else without let or hinderance, there are no end of other forums out there to do so. But not here. However, for those expecting one of the Admin team to come in all guns blazing, issuing warnings & getting all medieval, I think a little clarification of the site forum's rules & regulations are required here:
As this thread is at the moment promoting discussion of the subject, no foul - in fact, I'd thank Teo for his frank and open contributions to the discussion. However, please bear in mind this thread is being watched. ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 02:57
Not quite Chris, it is not the usage which is frowned upon, it is discussion about usage (and any other illegal activity) which is vetoed.
Personally, if this site were allowed to become a haven for discussing such things, I for one would move on quickly.
It seems to me Stonebeard that there is little support for your petition. Perhaps you will finally accept this and stop pushing the matter.
On an admin note, this thread will not be allowed to become a back door way of discussing drugs either. Any discussion must remain about site policy.
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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 03:15
 it seemed to me that most people were in agreement with what he was saying. an open forum for discussion should be promoted, whether or not you view drug use positively or negatively. I think, as does teo, aaron, and others that the ability to discuss these things in a rational, and civilized manor without branching into promotion of drug use would be completely fine, and in agreement with site policy.
i honestly see no breech in policy here. can they not be brought up at all? this isnt strictly a music forum, we have threads just for fun, random discussions, threads about favorite beers... i guess where do you draw the line? alcohol a drug (one of the most heavily abused and destructive i might add) is illegal for me (20) and yet i am allowed to discuss it while it is in fact begin promoted here. why is that allowed? PA knows that many of its users are underaged. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 04:55
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All I have to add to this discussion is that here in Georgia you cannot publicly refer to a bong as a bong in a store that sells them, you must use the term water pipe. But how about this?:  I do want to make it perfectly clear that I am in no way endorsing the use of conservative leaders. Just say no. But seriously, you can talk about just anything on this site except for some explicit sexual things just as long as you don't promote or advocate it. Seems reasonable enough to me. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 06:29
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In my country it's forbidden to show symbols of totalitarian regimes, such as the communist symbols in the avatars & sigs of the guys or the swastica. You should really check the Canadian Law about totalitarian propaganda, in order to prevent anything bad happening to PA due to reports. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 07:37
I resent this. Ever heard of Terrence McKenna? Timothy Leary? Aldous Huxley? Alan Watts? I think drug use (depending on which) can be of infinite importance, and it is definitely not selfishness. In fact, it's the opposite. Meditative drug use is all about everything - the entire cosmos. ...I guess you're right, then. Because I am everything.  |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 07:41
Yeah the only problem is that Canada is a totalitarian regime. I'll check shortly. |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 07:44
Sorry EL didn't see your post before my last, I'll stop. But if we were to discuss the law and not the actual activity (such as talking about legalization of drugs as opposed to drugs themselves) is that fair game? |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 07:53
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asdf |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 09:09
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I'm not sure I voted either way, and in fact I have discussions of these subjects on other forums and more importantly in my professional life all the time. Believe me folks, the discussion is played out. Maybe for the younger folks they need to go through it again, but there just isn't much new to say on the subject. Believe me, some of the statements I've seen here are ridiculously naive.
How about I talk about a legal activity for a second - smoking. We have a drug (nicotine) whose delivery system has been honed and refined to specifically be as addictive as it can be. The death-inducing qualities of this delivery system are unarguable. The death-inducing qualities of the delivery system for others in the vicinity is almost inarguable. Yet a gazillion dollars of our economy are wrapped up in this drug, and so it is legal almost everywhere. The bottom line in the real world is follow the money (which is a surrogate of power). Right and wrong, justice, common sense, take a distant back seat when determining policy - it's just the nature of politics. And when you're dealing with significant money or power, change is VERY difficult. It's like taking food from a hungry bear. As such, don't expect policy to change any time soon.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 09:17
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This is not a voting thread, it is an attempt at raising a petition. There is no need for those who do not support the petition to "vote" as such. So far the support seems to be 8 out of 23,000 potential signatures.
On a personal note, what I don't undertstand is why the persisitent desire from a small minority to discuss illegal activity here. Surely there must be plenty of other forums and websites which facilitate such discussion.
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Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 09:31
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Similarly - if you check my post, I voted neither way; mine was merely a post to clarify site rules & regulations. -------------
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 09:53
| I'm against the discussions of drugs on PA, and I therefore request the immediate locking of any threads on beer, wine or other alcoholic beverages. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 09:57
But note that it's not promotion of drug use that's forbidden here per se, it's that drug use falls under the rubric of illegal activities, the promotion of which is forbidden. I suppose that technically if it's not legal for one to consume alcohol they shouldn't take part in the discussion, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to see that enforced. |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 10:05
What country are you from? Just curious, I see no info on your profile! ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 10:05
I understand the reason for the site's policy, and I would not want alcohol threads banned. It's just that any time I see a drug legalisation discussion, alcohol is the first thing that comes to my mind. After all, alcohol is only legal because any attempts at banning it have been and will be futile. Not unlike at least some drugs, to be honest. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 10:11
That's pure bull.....
mailto:M@X - M@X is around 35 and if the Admins are generally older (but not all of them either), most of us collabs are fairly liberal about it.
I myself s still a fairly frequent grass smoker (roughly four or five times a month), but I also believe that this is the kind of subject that should be monitored for the good of the site. Same goes for political threads and religious threads, this is sensible and always create trouble.
I'm sure that the drugs subjects/threads have never been censored if they relate to the music and the effect on musicians.
However, what is obvious is that we don't want to have threads discussing about street grade qualities for heroin and what's the best way to consume them......
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 10:15
Yeah that is basically what I mean't
 I see no benefit though in all the cleverly worded debating this discussion takes which IMO leads down a nasty cul-de-sac with no positive outcome. Personally I see more positive discussion could be spent elsewhere on PA regardless of our liberal/non liberal viewpoints.Los endos... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 11:08
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asdf |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 11:12
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Ummm, no.
People talk about drug policies ad nauseum on many forums. I've yet to find a forum where prog is discussed as robustly and with as many contributors as this forum. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 11:16
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asdf |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 11:19
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^Do you mean this?: "On a personal note, what I don't undertstand is why the persisitent
desire from a large majority to discuss prog here. I suppose you also want the last sentence crossed out, right. Then if you're asking WHY we have the desire to disscuss Prog, I think you already know the answer, you can't discuss and talk about Prog in your daily life, so you attend a Forum to talk, share opinions, discuss, suggest, etc, about Prog. So I don't think this: "On a personal note, what I don't undertstand is why the persisitent desire from a small minority to discuss drugs here. Surely there must be plenty of other forums and websites which facilitate such discussion." Has something to do with this: "On a personal note, what I don't undertstand is why the persisitent desire from a large majority to discuss prog here. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 11:28
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asdf |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 11:32
You said this:
Which means this:
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Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 11:50
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"My, what a small hammer and (test) sickle you have there", she said , as she ran away in horror!
Pnoom! 's rollicking flasher video ! ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 12:02
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The robustness of this site is very much the issue. If this site were to go down, I would miss a very valuable resource that is NOT currently available elsewhere without going to several different sites. (If you have examples I'd be glad to hear about them, but I've looked) I respect the admins choice to zealously protect the site and the many hours of work all of us (most more than me) have put into it. This site is about prog. The other stuff can be fun but it's extra, and can be found lots of places. While I have found an enormous amount of fresh information about prog here, I am fairly certain that no one here has anything fresh or new to say about drug policy. I may even share most of your views, but I have no need to discuss it here, and I'm certainly not willing to threaten this resource for it. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:06
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pfft ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:06
Of course I will. This is the first time I think anyone has made an argument for it in this way, and if it's just the case that M@X doesn't want the policy changed, then I'm OK with it. It's doesn't make it right, though. But that's irrelevant. I thought I made a good argument, but if M@X's opinion is unchangeable, then that's that. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:07
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So what aspects of drug-taking or drugs in general do you want to discuss? If it's how wonderful smoking pot (etc) is then that's promoting illegal activity. If it's how smoking pot does you no more harm than smoking ciggies or drinking alcohol, then that's not really got much longevity as a thread has it? I mean once you type that then there's not really much argument is there? Certainly not enough to bring about a change in site policy. Wikepedia can provide answers to the yays and nays on that one. If it's about whether various drugs should be legalised or criminalised well there's enough discussion for one thread and it's probably already been done, so why change site policy? Finally, if it's really just to show off your vast knowledge and experience of illegal substances well that's embarrassing really isnt it? Honestly.  |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:13
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^ It's more of just a general dislike of having a perpetual thorn in the side, of having to watch what I say about something nonchalant, but people blow it out of proportion. Also, there are 2 reasons why I would rather not divvy up where I discuss niche interests: 1. I like you people, and I don't feel like discussing Phish with potheads. 2. This site has a Discussions Not Related to Music forum, and if topics all related to life are discussed here, then why not this one? If people stopped treating it so special, then there'd be almost no issue. But anyway, I've made my case, and I think it's pretty good. But it's not my decision. That doesn't mean I can't lobby for it, though. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:16
Yeah, time to start a thread on humor ! It's highly (oops!) addictive, makes you feel good, totally legal (except in a few remaining dictatorships) and will not upset anyone's code of ethics, principles or rules. I am totally in favor of basic rules because you need some kind of respect for what is and what shouldn't ! So humor, even though it has no kill ratio , still needs a little governance, no? I wish febus was around to spice the debate with some funny line!  ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:22
Well there you go being reasonable ruining a perfectly good flame war. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:28
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asdf |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:29
| But why would someone not understand the desire of most people here to discuss prog? |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:32
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asdf |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:34
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asdf |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:35
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"On a personal note, what I don't undertstand is why the persisitent desire from a large majority to discuss prog here."
This being the ProgArchives, this is a puzzler.
Sometimes things that seem to make sense when you think them don't when they actually are spoken or written. We all do it, but I'd probably let this one drop Pnoom. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:36
| I'd also advise getting back on topic. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 13:57
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asdf |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:15
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So your point is why would anyone want to use THIS site at all????
Assuming your answer is "Because I like the folks here" then I suppose the argument of "why can't this group of folks who like each other talk about whatever they want, especially when there's a general discussion spot" makes some bit of sense.
As you said, I've already made the point that "Because I like the folks here" is not the reason most people want to use this site. While I enjoy talking about Genesis and Yes, that is not the value of this site. Learning about Borknagar and Gryphon and Pentangle and Unexpect and Ulver and Cynic all on the same site is. And having a large enough community to have intelligent conversations on all of these things is part of what makes this place unique. Other prog forums exist, but I know of none this busy.
You've continued to ignore this last sentence, BTW.
And there ARE many many places to discuss drug policy with a much more robust set of folks in on the conversation. I get that you want to discuss it here, but the symmetry is not quite there for the argument. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:20
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asdf |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:22
Hugues, I've smoked weed every single day for the last year at least - I'm not against it ideologically by any means From reading the collab zone discussions on it I got the impression that a lot of collabs here weren't cool with it. Maybe I was wrong but that's the impression I got. I just don't think it's really necessary on this forum as there are many other ways we can discuss it if we want to. Obviously I mean more casual discussions of use, no one ever cared about academic discussions about the influence of lsd or 60's psychedelia or whatever. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:24
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Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:24
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asdf |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:35
| There have been a couple of references by individuals to personal drug taking here. Please refrain from these and keep the discussion about site policy. |
Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:35
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ha ha im going to quit tring to post in here. every time i think i have something to say in response i scroll down the page and pnoom's posted it already. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:38
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------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 14:55
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"I really have very little musical compatibility with this site at this point, so I can't even use it for it." I am tempted to say "end of discussion," but by your post count and reviews, clearly there's more lurking than this statement would indicate.
Here's what I'm getting from your arguments. "Even though this is a site specifically designed for prog music, and is the most active prog forum on the web, why can't folks go talk about prog elsewhere? I like the people here and some of us want to talk about something irrelevant to the purpose of the site and specifically against the wishes of the owners. I should be able to stay here and discuss what I want, even though I have little or no use for this site as a musical resource at this point. It is a free world after all."
ed. This is obviously too harsh....I better let the thread cool down.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:06
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asdf |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:19
He's talking about me, by the way. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:20
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asdf |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:26
+1
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:32
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Back on topic: While I do feel for those who have personal tragedies linked to drug abuse, this does not make a good reason for not being allowed to discuss drug use on the site. Freedom of speech is a big deal where I'm living (US), and to silence certain people from talking about certain things kind of goes against that.
HOWEVER . . .
This isn't real-life, face-to-face conversation, is it? It's an internet forum, and as such, whoever owns the forum has the right to limit the conversation to whatever he or she pleases. If we are told that we can't discuss cats because too many forum members have had cats that died and it brings back hurtful memories for them, I may think it's a dumb reason, but it doesn't mean I should show disrespect to those people by starting up a petition against something Ii could care less about.
In other words . . . this is a message board, and that's it. It isn't going to hurt us to hold our tongues (or fingers) about certain subjects during our time here, is it?
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:35
| Even in a "real life" conversation, "Freedom of Speech" doesn't apply to your relationship with me - merely that you can't be punished by the state for your speech. If you're in my house and starting saying things I don't want to hear, I can ask you to leave - something you recognize in the latter half of your post. |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:37
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asdf |
Posted By: Shakespeare
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:39
I just did the math and grand total posts in the entire "Prog Music Lounges" Section is 773,815, and the total number of posts in the "Topics not related to music" section is 726,784. That's pretty significant. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:43
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Off-topic, but excellent job with the reworked MP boo gif.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 24 2009 at 15:45
Ha! Not funny  If you have read my post, before me doing this clarification, you should have seen me asking "Did you mean this?", and it was exactly what you meant, and in case, I 'striked through' the last part, because I thought you might not wanted it, since you didn't clarify. As you see, you still didn't answer my real responses, which were said later by Negoba.... |