Classic Rock: do they bother with research?
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Topic: Classic Rock: do they bother with research?
Posted By: Dick Heath
Subject: Classic Rock: do they bother with research?
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 10:10
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Just picked up the April 2009 edition of Classic Rock (why April 2009 edition when it is only March 2009?). Potentially a good article on significant rock albums releases of 1969, is spoilt by Classic Rock perrenial lack of attention of correct details and thorough research. I was working in a record store through 1969 and know that certain records listed here never took off (and often never had much in the way of media attention), whilst other records did but not mentioned here. So here's my ( and I would argue vigourly at it being correct) knowledge on the subject (note: the Classic Rock article is written up in order of month of release: but even that depends on which side of the Atlantic they mean, since release dates differed then as they do in 2009):
January
Led Zeppelin - original album's front cover had lettering printed in turquoise not orange
February
Family : Family Entertainment
March
Cream: Goodbye (US release some time before UK release)
Genesis : From Genesis To Revelation - few people were aware of this album until inclusion of one of the better tracks on the compliation Wowie Zowie World Of Progressive Music, was released towards the end of 1969, and then some (not many) discovered the first Genesis album was pretty weak.
Moby Grape: '69 (Big in the USA only? In fact after a lot of eager anticipation and few interesting singles, Moby Grape was a major disappointment having drugged away their advance payments)
April
Velvet Underground: self titled album
May
Who: Tommy
MC5: Kick Out The Jams
Neil Young: Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere
Bob Dylan: Nashville Skyline
Moody Blues: On The Freshold Of A Dream (perhaps originally a bigger hit in the USA than the UK, as Days Of Future Passed have not sold initially that well
Quicksilver Messenger Service: Happy Trails (one of those albums released some time before in the USA before hitting the UK - pushed by import sales?)
Captain Beefheart & Magic Band: Trout Mask Replica
June
Crosby Stills & Nash: self titled album
Procol Harum: A Salty Dog
July
Spirit: Clear
Yes: self-titled album (I would suggest only London were aware of this band, so no major impact. It needed another two albums to really break through. Also NOTE: Reviewer in CR bollocks up his piece by stating Steve Howe's name when this for sure Pete Banks' album)
August
Blind Faith: self-titled album (definitely US release was several weeks before that in the UK)
Jethro Tull: Stand Up
Santana: self title album
The Nice: self titled, 3rd? album
Johnny Cash: At San Quinton
September
Janis Joplin: I Got Dem Ol' Kosmic Blues Again Mama
Nick Drake: Five leaves Left. (Joe Boyd, Drake's manager, writes in his autobiography White Bicycles, of the frustration that this album never sold when first released - it wasn't until quite some time after Drake's death that by word of mouth that Drake's albums started to shift)
Doors: Soft Parade (is this a major Door's' album?)
October
Frank Zappa: Hot Rats
King Crimson: In The Court Of The Crimson King
Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac: Then Play On
Alexander Spence: Oar (did this ever get LP release in the UK, and note a lot of lobbying of Columbia was necessary to get a CD release - perhaps the most debatable album in this shopping list)
Pentangle: Basket Of Light
Donovan: Barabajagal ( An LP never released in the UK because of Jeff Beck inclusion but being signed to different and competive label in the UK to that of Donovan, i.e. EMI Columbia and Pye records respectively)
Beatles: Abbey Road
Pink Floyd: Umma Gumma
The Band: self titled (In the UK largely ignored first time around, did it needed Music From The Big Pink for folks to sit and note - also Clapton's backing?)
Creedence Clearwater Revival: Green River
Led Zeppelin: 2
November:
Jefferson Airplane: Volunteers
Rolling Stones: Let It Bleed
The Allman Brothers Band: self titled (Simply don't remember this album being pushed at all in the UK
- perhaps suffering the lack of sales for the Allman bros in the Hour Glass guise?)
December
Chicago: Chicago Transit Authority (would you believe John Peal flogged this to death on his Radio One show for the 5 weeks before the UK release date - so did this get 1970 release in the UK?)
Fairport Convention: Liege & Lief
I would simple throw out of this list:
Skip Spence's Oar, The Band, Nick Drake's 5 Leaves Left. Genesis : From Genesis To Revelation , Moby Grape: '69 Instead I would include
Touch: self titled album which had a major but short term impact both sides of the Atlantic. With a significant period between US and UK release dates then the import was to have some affect on future UK prog musicians.
Renaissance: self titled album. Nowaday forgotten in favour of the Annie Haslam period Renaissance, this was the first underground/progressive music album to be taken up by the overground media and perhaps the first rock album to be considered 'art'. Jim Mossman's BBC 2 arts programme devoted a whole show to discussing the music with Renaissance and them playing extracts - unheard of before this time. In other words I would suggest rock came of age and acceptance amonsgt the art crtics (includingthe older ones); Pink Floyd were soon to get the same treatment.
------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Replies:
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 11:52
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I've always wanted to start up a magaziine for people who read LP liner notes, and all sorts of rock history. But then, when I meet someone like me, we end up exhausted after discussing George Martin's use of Paul & John jointly singing lead on the first few albums; the blues songs (and other) that Jimmy Page ripped off, I mean borrowed from to compose many of their classics; the musical background of Bon Scott, including his start in an Australian Bubblegum pop group; John Curulewski's role in building the Styx sound , and how Tommy Shaw proved to be the break they needed, while De Young turned out to be the pop balladeer that brought about the end of their classic period; and of course, the amazing ability of Phil Campbell to nonchalantly chew gum and play guitar at the same time while playing Ace of Spades ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: mystic fred
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 12:25
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Absolutely right, Dick - but would guess anyone born after 1980 would surely not be that interested in absolute details looking at 1969 from a modern perspective....i know i get irritated by historical errors as i was there and often hear myself saying "i thought everyone knew that", but must admit apart from reading record sleeves there was very little information available in those days about our bands, especially Led Zeppelin, who had very little patience with music journalists and hardly ever gave interviews, so i often pick up new snippets of info i didn't know, and still habitually collect almost every magazine with LZ on that comes out..
On the subject of Led Zeppelin "ripping off", i often see the band being accused of this but their only crime i can see is that they didn't credit any of their sources, especially "Whole Lotta Love" which was a traditional Blues song, everyone did trad. Blues songs but i believe they "borrowed" the arrangement from the Small Faces' 1st album.
In defence of the white-boy-blues merchants, i would believe traditional Blues artists had been almost forgotten by the 60's, having been smothered by Rock'n'Roll and Soul, though Jazz was always prominent. Had it not been for the Mayalls, Claptons, Pages, MacPhees, Hendrixes and Greens of the music world in 1968/9 i may have hardly noticed it at all in those days - i remember being teased at school for being "still into the Beatles" at the time, and was introduced to the "in" guy John Mayall, though i was into Hendrix and Cream so not totally out of it ! Though i know i owe homage and respect to the early Bluesmen of the beginning of Blues, those old albums are very hard work to listen to these days (this is where i get hanged
 ) , so WBB is my thing, and i still remain hopelessly hooked and fascinated by the Blues (and the Beatles ) to this day and there is no cure.. -------------  Prog Archives Tour Van 
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 17:28
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I noticed the Steve Howe howler today. There's no real excuse for that. Steve, re: Led Zeppelin, you said that their only crime was that they didn't credit any of their sources, but surely that's the whole point. In the case of Dazed and Confused, they can't even offer up the excuse that it was an old blue song that may have been out of copyright. They basically nicked it! |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 22:25
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Who knows who researches this stuff? Some young intern? I have to admit I could do no better, in spite of having lived through the time, but I have legitimate excuses, ahem. I would have thought the Blind Faith release appeared in the UK first. There was a big uproar about the UK cover, so in the US we got the alternative cover. Doors album, The Soft Parade, big disappointment, despite spawning the hit "Touch Me". It was major only in the sense it was their current release. After that one, they went back to the basics with Morrison Hotel. I can assure you, Moby Grape '69 was not a anywhere near a hit in the U.S.
The Yes mistake is inexcusable.
Nick Drake. This is revisionism. It's hip to know Nick Drake now, as that intern would know.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 22:33
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goes to show what I think of their research.. and the magazine. Got it last week.. still haven't even opened it.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: March 10 2009 at 22:50
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'69? Where's Hot Rats? |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 02:55
| ^ Or King Crimson? Or Colosseum? Tommy? Beck-ola? |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 03:01
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If your magazine made you enough money even though you only did a half assed job, would you bother doing more research? No, you probably wouldn't, because you're getting the money and the average reader is too ignorant to know otherwise in the first place. ------------- 
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Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 03:53
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Interesting comments Dick. I guess CR are looking at things from the perspective of albums released in 1969 which in retrospect are now significant. The Genesis album for example was, as you say, irrelevant in 69, but historically it represents the first album by a legendary prog band.
I don't blindly defend CR, but they are at least the best we have.
By the way, is "The freshold of a dream" the cockney version??!
 |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 07:06
How embarrassing- hoisted by my own petard (however, you wouldn't get CR admitting such things). Thanks for that - my weak excuse: a strange page lay out did not help when I was otherwise in a rush to do this longish piece in a lunch break). I missed three when I double checking ( guess I was more intent in listed the less obvious than the obvious )- I give it to CR they did include these- but now added to the master list above.
One of several of my points is how wonderous is the facility of hindsight 40 years after the event, and so with this article is labelled "The best albums of 1969" one can readily argue whether these were the best albums of 1969 for folks living then in 1969 and further the degree of significance any particular one had. (Not ignoring that several of these albums are very debatable for inclusion, especially when room should be made for other IMHO more relevant albums). I trust hindsight less then actually being there and experiencing the explosion of rock musics (then called underground) and knowing of the Uk media and retail side which sold well and which didn't sell at the time. As to the Genesis album - how many Genesis fans ignored this album for a very long time either because it was at the early stage of the band's learning curve (I see a parallel of trying to foist Soft Machine's 1967 demos subsequently called Jet Propelled Photograph, as being significant when not) or not available because of lack of promotion by Decca Records.
'Threshhold' or 'Threshold'??? The latter according to Chamber English Dictionary.
BTW posting this also at Prog Ears, some the replies there I found as very acid - which I feel is more about catching people out than than providing positive criticism and support ("I know more than you and going to let you know it") - thank goodness for PA and it reasonableness. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
jammun wrote:Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 11:25
Having not made the effort to buy either for quite sometime (I stick to Jazzwise and National Geographic Magazine for my subscriptions, borrow when available anything else), has CR overtaken Mojo wrt "bestness"? ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 11:47
Nobody reads anymore. Just ask Steve Jobs. http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/3808651/Apples-Epic-E-Book-Failure.htm - http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/3808651/Apples-Epic-E-Book-Failure.htm |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 15:55
Too right. But my profession demands much higher standards: you don't get published and accepted unless your book, paper, article, undergoes thorough refereeing and then galley proof reading e.g. http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/463/2084/1857.abstract Alas we don't get paid for this. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 16:03
I second this  . Slips can occur everywhere, but as my Roman forebears used to say, scripta manent (what has been written remains), therefore you should pay extra attention when your work is going to be published. Earlier today I finished the galley proof reading of a book that I partly translated and edited, which is due to come out in May. It may not be fun, but it must be done, if you want to keep your credibility intact. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 16:42
They have for my money. I stopped subscribing to Mojo a few years back. There's only so much you want to know about Rusty's Dumpy Nuts.
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Posted By: Intruder
Date Posted: March 11 2009 at 17:40
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I used to enjoy Rolling Stone and Creem until the early-to-mid 80s, but have basically left the rock rags alone for the past 25 years. However, desperate for something to read prior to a 10 hour flight from Cario to Seoul, I found several long outdated copies of Uncut magazine in a kiosk for a quid apiece. I didn't like the quick, blurbish reviews, but the feature articles were outstanding (one on the early years of the Byrds, one of Water's Final Cut, and in-depth interviews with McCartney and Townshend (who was at the time embroiled in his kiddie porn scandal). Yeah, the magazine dwells a little too long on the druggy, sleazy side of things, but it was definitely an upgrade over the contemporary Rolling Stone. My question: How does Uncut rate among rock mag readers? Like I said, the reviews are a bit too obvious and far too unrevealing, but some of the features - the lost album articles and the last page memories page - are a ton of fun. ------------- I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there..... |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 12 2009 at 03:49
| I like Uncut myself. I think at times they try to cast their net a bit too wide by including films and music, but their articles can be very good, and the CD often has a decent selection of music. |
Posted By: crimhead
Date Posted: March 13 2009 at 12:35
| I'll have to look at it more closely. I only read it in Borders. I do like the offerings in it though. I picked up a nice Doors DVD in one of them. |