Trip Hop Elements in Prog?!?
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=57268
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Topic: Trip Hop Elements in Prog?!?
Posted By: The Whistler
Subject: Trip Hop Elements in Prog?!?
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 01:20
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Friends, I have alarming news. It is a well known FACT that two of my favorite bands, Jethro Tull and the Decemberists, are art FOLK bands; bands that PRIDE themselves on sounding as natural as the day they were born. Wooden guitars and all. So why is it then that I have become so enamoured with art TRIP HOP? I mean, it's based on electronic things! Keyboards, drum machines, samples...artificial every one of them! I dunno--like most things like life, I blame Radiohead. It's that damn "15 Step" and "Idioteque," idn't it? That, and the OK Computer influences, were what led me to DJ Shadow ("Building Steam With a Handful of Salt" is a masterpiece)... Anyway, barring Radiohead, I want to know what other trip hop influences one finds peeking up into intelligent, experimental music? I know that The Flaming Lips have also become enamoured with it recently, whether that's good or bad I cannot say. Oh, and, even though a lot of Archive's work seems like it's not terribly interesting (or, you know, GOOD), "Again" has got to be some of the best sixteen minutes of music I've heard in a long while. So a little love for Archive, or anything along those lines, would be appreciated. ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Replies:
Posted By: fighting sleep
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 02:09
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I would dare to say that the reason why The Power to Believe is so good is because it deftly blends the more artsy elements of trip hop with King Crimson's wonderfully eclectic prog. Other examples off the top of my head are Disillusion's "Gloria", "2nd Hands" by the Gourishankar, and even classics like "Dead Air For Radio" by Chroma Key. Oh, and Ulver's "Themes" and the albums after that (especially Perdition City). Of course, I'd like to argue the point that most of trip hop is proggy sonic experimentation combined with hip hop listenability. Some trip hop artists tip toe through extremely experimental territory, such as Portishead with their "Third" album. Good stuff. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 02:12
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Radiohead is trip hop? Idioteque sounds like Aphex Twin, not Massive Attack... :S ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 02:30
Paatos definitely have that whole trip-hop vibe going on. Although, the way they're going, one might argue that it's more of a case of trip-hop with prog influences.  I agree with fighting sleep about Ulver. Check out Perdition City or Blood Inside. ------------- 
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 02:35
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IZZ on 'I move' experimented with trip hop and IT WORKED !!!! It's considered as their best album to date.
Peter Gabriel also did it.
You can hear some trip hop on Kevin Gilbert's magnificent posthumous 'The shaming of the true' (which is more a compilation of re-worked tunes from the NRG and Giraffe's periods than anything else).
To be honest, incorporate elements from other genres to create a music that goes beyond all tags is intrinsic to the definition of prog. So, for me it should not be surprising to hear trip hop elements in a prog record nowadays. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 02:40
interesting, never thought about that but I guess that's partly true-- either way TPtB is one great record  |
fighting sleep wrote:Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 03:16
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I don't really know what trip hop is, but I've heard Steven Wilson mentioning that the music of Porcupine Tree also contains trip hop rhythms. ------------- yeah |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 03:16
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...Crap. Touche, good sir. Not only am I som'what wrong, but I'm admitting it. Recent review confirms that "Idioteque" does not display a lot of trip hop imagry--the riff is sampled, and the mood is downbeat, but it's too blippy bloppy to really be trip hop. Perhaps I was thinking of the live version of "Everything In Its Right Place," with the extended ending that focuses on drum and bass amdist a sampled swirl, hmm? Or maybe I was just thinking of "Karma Police" or something, I don't know... ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 04:26
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My suggestion would be The Gathering especially on How To Meaure A Planet? and Souvenirs 'The Big Sleep' (How To Measure A Planet?)
'A Life All Mine' (Souvenirs) ~ With Kristoffer Rygg (Ulver)
My Dying Bride also touched on Trip Hop on 34.788%... Complete and covered Portishead's 'Roads' for a Peaceville compilation CD
------------- What? |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 04:46
I used to think that it's a concept album ... and I wouldn't call that middle part of Certifiable #1 Smash trip-hop ... it's more like an extended bass/e-drums vamp to accompany the narration.  ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: SirJethro
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 05:09
The Creator has an Mastertape has some influences. ------------- Give me all the Forests, give me all the Trees give me everything as long is it for free 
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 05:51
Well, say that it's both a compilation and a concept album ("staring into nothing" from NRG sessions, "imagemaker", "from here to there", "the way back home" from Giraffe sessions, the demo version of "a long day's life" sounds like an unreleased track from the eighties, "suit fugue" is taken from a tribute to Gentle Giant, add kaviar to the list of compiled bands, song "ghetto of beautiful things").
I was refering to "fun" for the trip hop elements. ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 14:29
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Umphrey's McGee incorporates "trip-hop" elements, if you want to call it that. i just call it modern psych-electro-dance
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 14:55
Of course I know that Kevin Gilbert sadly passed away before the album was completed. I don't know though if he planned to include the songs you mentioned or if that decision was made afterwards (by Nick D'Virgilio) ... it all connects nicely though, as far as the lyrics are concerned. BTW: Yes, I see the trip hop connection in Fun.  ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: fighting sleep
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 16:43
That it is . And you're right about the "partly"; I was mostly referencing the trip hop elements in the title songs, as well as "Dangerous Curves". The rest of the album is purely Krimson. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 18:48
And in a non-pedant note, Jaga Jazzist is a nice electronic/jazz/rock hybrid. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: CryoftheCarrots
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 19:05
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Ozric Tentacles anyone? It is probably more acurate to say some of the better trip hop bands such as Massive Attack or Portishead have prog rock elements rather than the other way round.Maybe thats why I love those 2 bands so much. ------------- "There is a lot in this world to be tense and intense about" MJK |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 19:09
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You're finally catching on to trip-hop? All the good stuff went down in the early to mid 90s. After that all the wannabes jumped on board, does that progression of events sound familiar?
There is a compilation called Heads that many trip hop afficiondos consider to be the apex of the genre. What happened after the mid 90s is people started putting out product more quickly by using simplistic repetitive loops for the whole song, instead of constructing interesting songs by connecting samples and using some loops for short sections. I have an album by Future Sound of London called Dead Cities that is a perfect blend of trip-hop, progressive rock and movie soundtracks, it has that huge 'epic' sound that I would equate with early 70s prog-rock. P.S. I agree with the Ozric Tentacles recommendation above, great band! |
Posted By: Doomcifer
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 20:30
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Arcturus Ulver ------------- Greater is the man who conquers himself, than he who conquers a hundred times a hundred on the battlefield. |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 20:44
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I know what you mean about radiohead and trip hop.I also think Sigur Ros are a progressive band with trip hop elements also Bjork but I believe she's not on the site for some reason.Surley she's been mentioned for suggest new artists?
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 20:50
Agreed. FSOL also incorporate significant slabs of psychedelica. I've given up agitating for their inclusion here because most proggers equate electronic music with trance or house. Nothing could be further from the truth! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ss0peoW9bA) The thirty minute, five-part version on the 'My Kingdom' single is as proggy as prog gets, IMO. |
Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: April 19 2009 at 22:31
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Blackmonk from Pasadena Ca. Has some great lo fi trip hop/ ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/maxwells-submarine |
Posted By: The Whistler
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 02:55
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Okay, as per my understanding...trip hop is instrumental based electronic music that retains a "natural" sound (i.e., keyboards that sound like pianos, organs, harpsicords, gutiars are a plus). Very ('humble, very) heavy on the drums (live and machines) and bass, long stretches without vocals that utilizes repetative riffage. Liberal use of sampling. Mood is usually more downbeat. For example, I'd consider this more trip hop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZsHNkAJBDU&feature=related than the provided this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGYRvIOZfZ8 Of course, the infamous "Teardrop" is a personal fave... ------------- "There seem to be quite a large percentage of young American boys out there tonight. A long way from home, eh? Well so are we... Gotta stick together." -I. Anderson |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 05:34
| ^ your links didn't work for me, but your description was good. Trip-Hop started out as B sides to hip hop singles that had the vocals taken out. As trip hop developed it's own style the beat slowed down and the production became more psychedelic. The DJs and producers started going back to older hip hop beats (late 80s-early 90s, ie slowed down breakbeats). Trip Hop also has a strong cross-relationship with acid jazz, hence the use of electric pianos, Hammond organs, wah wah guitars, or samples of those instruments. These days trip hop has a huge influence on many musical styles and has totally permeated pop culture. |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 11:13
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i believe Miles Davis' last album "Doo-Bop" is one of the earliest examples of trip-hop or acid jazz, if they are one in the same
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 12:19
| ^ they're similar, but not the same. Doo Bop could be called acid jazz, it came out in 91, but British DJs started doing acid jazz sets as early as mid to late 80s. |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 12:38
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Today I added the tag to PF ... since authentic Trip Hop probably won't make it to PA any time soon, maybe some of you will help me fill this chart at PF: http://progfreak.com/home/charts.xhtml?y=*any&ps=prog&tags=triphop - http://progfreak.com/home/charts.xhtml?y=*any&ps=prog&tags=triphop ------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: the_binkster
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 15:24
| I've always thought No-Man have huge trip-hop influences, in fact the whole of "Returning Jesus" is a trip-hop influenced prog album and brilliant for it.... |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 15:31
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Not sure if he's an actual MUSICAL influence on them, but Tool had Tricky appear in their Parabola music video.
The more electronic moments of the more recent Porcupine Tree stuff may pass for some Trip-Hop influences as well, but only just.
Practically any Prog Electronica could have interchangeable ideas between the two genres in the borader sense, I suppose, though Trip-Hop is much more about using already existing material like Hip-Hop does, while Electroniuca . . .well, you know where I'm going with this.
Interestingly enough, I believe Trip-Hop was mentioned on this forum somewhere before as being a potential additional Prog genre. If that is indeed true, then thank God it didn't go through.
 |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 22:07
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^Well "Intension" has an electronic percussion bridge section, I wouldn't know if you missed that. Of course, it's not really a favorite song, and I wouldn't really know trip-hop enough to say whether it fits in the genre. ------------- 
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 20 2009 at 22:23
Well I love Intension myself, but that percussion bridge section never really struck me as Trip-Hoppy. Could be, though! 
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Posted By: Thandrus
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 04:21
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There's a band listed on PA, "Archive". They mix Trip-Hop and prog elements. |
Posted By: Burning Shed
Date Posted: April 23 2009 at 16:53
You're right, there's a definite Trip-Hop element to No-Man, although arguably they were doing Trip Hop pre-Trip Hop. The band's debut singles Colours (1990) and Days In The Trees (1991) (on Bjork's label, One Little Indian) feature break-beats combined with Classical/Art Rock influences and were both Singles Of The Week in the UK music press of the day (Melody Maker and Sounds). |
Posted By: Deus_Nova
Date Posted: April 24 2009 at 19:57
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mhh, i think that Porcupine Tree has in a lot of their songs the influence of trip-hop...
at the beggining of Gravity Eyelids, just listening to the drums you can appreciate that
or in the section of Akerfeldt's solo in "Arriving Somewhere.."
also in "Sentimental" ------------- 
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Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 25 2009 at 12:45
That sounds very promising, I'll look for it. Thanks! |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: April 25 2009 at 14:13
My friend, I think you have turned me onto a new band. This "The Gathering" music, I quite liked. I thank you. |
Posted By: zvinki
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 10:00
| "Dna ts. Rednum or F. Raf" off of Riverside's "Voices in My Head" EP. |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 11:28
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I think it's an awesome concept. Obviously I'm a Bjork fan, I think it would be great if bands started taking her sound (as well as stuff like Aphex Twin, Primal Screal, DJ Shadow and Portishead) and supplemented it into a prog rock format. As diverse as prog is today I'm sure such a thing already exists. Which is while I wouldn't mind taking a few recommendations from my prog brethren.
One thing I believe strongly about prog is that there's absolutely no genre of music it can't merge with.
And yes fellas, that includes punk. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 11:51
Gavin Castleton : 'Home'. Besides trip-hop on 5 or 6 tracks, you can hear "rap" on two tracks. overall, a nice concept-album that should please fans of Kevin Gilbert
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/images/B000089CJI/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=301062&s=music">
 The postal service : "give up" for fans of moods in the vein of Portishead and Massive Attack with emphasis on melodies ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 12:04
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Thanks, will check those out.
You know, I just thought about something.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 12:51
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You can loop the first part of ELP's live version of Rodeo and you get a beat similar to 'funky drummer' plus a cool synth glissando. It was one of the first loops I made when I first got a sampler back in the late 80s.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 26 2009 at 22:32
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: drziltox
Date Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:03
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any one who's paid attention to music in the past 10 years, would count several bands in the prog trip hop camp: orbital, banco de gaia, the chemical brothers, stereolab, roni size and individuals such as towa tei and amon tobin have certainly stretched the boundries of chillout, ambient, and trip hop enough to stretch right into the progressive rock camp, roni size in particular, hits the stage with 4 turntablists, a drummer, a standup bassist, a rap guy, and a diva, and anyone who's heard their album "NEW FORMS" would concur that this is one of the growing number of trip hop bands that defy classification and have clearly crossed over into prog, steve hillage's system 7 is a fine example of this, and amon tobin in particular, is one of the chief exponents of this type of music, I urge you all to expand your horizons and checkout these bands!! ------------- DrZiltox |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: May 04 2009 at 19:16
| ^ I own CDs by many of those peoples ... horizons have been expanded already and looking for further expansion ... |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: May 07 2009 at 17:08
Fantastic recommendations Dean The Gathering were the first that came to mind, along with Ulver, being mentioned beforeAlso, not sure if applicable but Tiamat also had some nice trip-hop moments in A Deeper Kind of Slumber... |