Which time signature is more progressive?
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Topic: Which time signature is more progressive?
Posted By: paganinio
Subject: Which time signature is more progressive?
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 00:47
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5/4 always feels non-progressive to me, because Radiohead (a non-prog band) uses it a lot. Thought "Fandango" had the most glorious 5/4 composition ever. 7/4, on the other hand, is used extensively by Daniels and Steven Wilson and Tool and the like. [quote]In his head a thunderous |
Replies:
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 00:52
what Genesis inspired band has never used 9/8? It's like sugar in coffee these days 
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Posted By: Moatilliatta
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 01:05
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5/6 for sure. ------------- www.last.fm/user/ThisCenotaph  
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 01:08
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Real music doesn't have a time signature. Or notes. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 01:18
| 7/4 or 7/8. Although I guess it goes without saying that each instrument should play in a different time signature than the others. |
Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 01:38
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Well, I think that the harmonic language of the piece is way more important than it's time signature, and there are still other factors like counterpoint or orchestration to be considered. If we must talk strictly about time sigs though, I feel that the best way is to change one (odd-timed of course) every other bar or so! Excess baby!!!
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Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 01:43
Ugh, Atmospheric/post/avant   |
Henry Plainview wrote:Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:03
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:05
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SEIZURIFIC! That's just awful |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:05
| I'd say the best time signature is 1/0. Seems like a winning number. |
Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:06
^^^^^^^^^^^^ Ha ha ha....they release stuff like this on actual cds???? Niiice...
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:07
Or is it the greatest musical statement since Metal Machine Music? An heir is born... |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:13
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Henry, damn you b*****d, you know that I actually like Merzbow though. Don't mock me.
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:17
Nah, Merzbow is popular. :P
I dare someone to find a guitar solo more progressive than this
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 02:21
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I would say 7/8. Especially in progressive metal. In Symphonic prog and more "classic" prog, it would have to be 9/8, and 11/8 for KC... ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 03:10
| Any odd time signature (5, 7, 11 or 9 when this is not a 3-3-3). I vote for the 11/4-11/8. |
Posted By: Cheesecakemouse
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 03:13
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5/4 and 7/4or7/8 is pretty standard for prog I don't think 6/8 is that progressive its the same as 3/4 which is waltz time and fairly common outside prog. ------------- |
Posted By: TealFoxes
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 08:41
| First time I listened to Apocalypse 9/8, I couldn't even catch up with the riff & solo. Second time, I knew what was coming & understood the time signature; I was pretty blown away. Third time I listened to the song was the single greatest music listening experience. I vote 9/8 due to special pleading. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 08:57
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5 is kind of happy go lucky, 7 is a tripping over itself sound that I like quite a bit. 9 is very cool and allows for subdividing many ways, probably the most possibility. 11 is just a compound and can feel like anything from just a chopped eighth to whatever you're compounding. 6 because it lends itself so well to subdividing two very accessible but very different ways, can be extremely progressive. Eventually when you're doing compounds, you're just playing feel and no one actually cares what the time signature is. The intro to "Firth of Fifth" is a great example. If you look at the sheet music, it look horrendous, but it's actually just lots of different compound eighth groupings that make perfect sense if you let your ear guide rather than your math brain. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:08
Wait, they're not Prog?
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1492 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1492
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Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:13
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BLACK HOLE TIME SIGNATURE... NOTHING ESCAPES IT
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Posted By: hagguhsem
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:19
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7/4 because many prog bands use it, like Tool... but i like the crazy section in DT's Dance of eternity wich has no time signatures at all, watch Portnoy explain it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7jikeIyKaE |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:22
| Yeah, 7/4 is pretty groovy to listen to. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:24
Radiohead also use 7/4 on a hit single (Paranoid Android).
Ergo 7/4 can't be Prog OR Radiohead are Prog.
 ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:24
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It's crazy fun to play, especially once you can feel it and jam in it without counting. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:29
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How can a time signature being prog.
------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:29
^ But whenever I play or write stuff in odd time, I am never able to tell exactly what time sig it is. It's weird. Everything I know is self-taught, so the way I am able to detect odd time sigs probably very crude. Oh, well.
Isn't Pink Floyd's "Money" in 7/4?
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:37
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That's actually good. Playing to a time signature on purpose is something for practice time, it's mechanical, not musical. When you're actually composing, you just play what comes out. I have never written anything in odd time that wasn't a mechanical exercise. I do have a few compound measures where a phrase just sounds better lengthened or shortened. The casual listener shouldn't ever have to think about time signature, it should just flow.
So don't worry about it. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:53
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I'm a big fan of 7, but in reality, a mixture of shifting time sigs is a sure sign of Progressiveness, IMO. 7 is almost common time in most of my Prog Favs. The strangest time sig I've seem? 21/16 (thank you Derek Sherinian). Although 17/16 is in the middle of PorcTree's 'Futile'. ------------- 
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Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 09:59
That's a very good question. It doesn't really matter for me as long as I can enjoy the music. ------------- yeah |
Posted By: Alberto Muņoz
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:01
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Any time signature that use cleverly always will sound progressive
No Vote -------------  |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:02
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No time signature surely is always going to be progressive such as Bjork's Joga but as an example signature for prog it would probably 7/4. 3 and 5/4 I always think of folk. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:25
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Easy. All of them and none of them. (a quirky time signature does not a prog song make) |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:53
That is true, but it has been a key component. I believe the point of the question is to ask opinion of which is considered the most Prog, given that an unusual time sig is present. -------------
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:57
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The "most" prog???? we can't even decide what is prog at all let alone what is "most" prog. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: StyLaZyn
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 10:59
So true! -------------
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:03
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127/128 is a pretty brutal time signature.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:10
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I chose 7/4, though I don't know if I call it inherently progressive. ELP had plenty of progressive pieces in standard 4/4.
In the music I write, I make a conscious attempt to work with odd times, like 5/4, 7/4, 9/8, 11/8, etc. I like the concentric effect they give the music, making it sound more circular as opposed to boxy.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 11:12
Joey Jordison
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 12:37
Yeh but George Kollias taught Jordison how to play in that time signature. George Kollias can can play blastbeats in that time signature with his pinky he's so good ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Einsetumadur
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 12:43
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All my favorite prog tracks are written in 4/4, so my vote goes for this one. A complex structure is far more important than a strange rhythm because the latter can often destroy the fluidness in case one uses it too deliberately ... if it works, it is great, especially when it's used to create hooks. Indeed I find Banco's 10/4 in "RIP" quite groovy.  ------------- All in all each man in all men |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 15:01
Haha, I believe it, too.
I definately think there is an art to the blastbeat. You can't just go completely off the map crazy when doing it, otherwise the whole band sounds like noise.
At least in my opinion. I am no drummer, though, so what do I know,
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 16:02
You obviously haven't heard much grindcore my friend You haven't lived until you've heard a 127/128 blastbeat in my opinion,, so long as it's tight of course ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: mr.cub
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 16:27
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I like the feel of 9/8 or 9/4. 1234-123-12. 123-123-123. Either/or its just a blast... ------------- 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 16:51
They are not prog. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 17:21
There are time signatures, they just change every measure. The most interesting thing about that video is that while I acknowledge that he nearly killed himself keeping time there, for all his effort, it doesn't sound very rhythmically interesting. At least to me. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 22:36
Are you kidding? I HAVE TO HEAR THAT if somebody can actually play that.
Anyways, I voted 3/4, since it's not very commonly used in rock music. Usually when doing triplet times, 6/8, 9/8, and12/8 times are used. 3/4 is usually only present in rhythms with a waltz-y feel, which sounds pretty cool in prog. Other odd times are pretty simple. 5/4 is usually pretty groovy and if done right usually doesn't sound too much different than 4/4. 7/8 can either be frantic or hauntingly meditative and sounds way cool when played quickly. 11 times are usually tacked together so they don't sound all that great IMO. Fractions I haven't really encountered yet, unless you count "Schism" by Tool (for those who have heard what Danny Carey says it's in).
Incidentally, a buddy in drumline and I wrote a cadence with a section in 17/8. It's basically a standard 7/8 measure with a standard 5/4 measure right after it. It's pretty awesome. ------------- 
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 23:06
That's funny, since I kindof just gave a link saying that they are. You can keep your opinion, but the majority vote won out for their inclusion here, thank God. A very worthy addition to the site.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 21 2009 at 23:08
No, I'm saying that I can really enjoy a blastbeat if it is handled correctly. Mainly I was commenting on the fact that a lot of drummers tend to just jump right into it without much thought. But hry, it;s just my opinion.
But I do love a good blastbeat as long as I can still hear the rhythm in it.
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 02:42
They are prog - you are mistaken .------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 05:23
Ah right, yeah, I see where you are coming from. I've heard quite a few amateur drummers play blastbeats with their new sensational band in pubs and support acts. It sounds quite shocking when they screw up... ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 05:31
wat -------------
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Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 07:53
And I did just that. In my opinion, time signature has nothing to do with "most Prog". All of them are associated with Prog, including 4/4 time. Though admittedly, most people think of the "other" time sigs like 7/8, 6/4, 9/8 etc. when they think of Prog. But honestly, I don't think it matters at all. |
Posted By: Telinstryata
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 08:02
| I chose 7/4 just because it's my favourite time signature. But when it comes to prog, I believe that songs that don't stick to a single time signature in a song are more progressive. If a song goes back and forth between bars of 7/4/, 5/4, 4/4 etc... it really gets me interested in the song. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 08:52
Actually yeah, say what? 6/8 is completely different to 3/4 and is by NO means a waltz. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 08:57
| ^Right. 6/8 means a double jig (or a Tarantella, for the Italians among us). |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 09:12
Now, had he said: ''3/4 is the same as 3/8'', he would have made a bit more sense.
Maybe that's actually what he meant . . . ?
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 09:55
Nah man, I think he meant 6/8  3/8 isn't in the poll unfortunately.Not good  ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 10:02
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Now the question is, will he be able to live this down?
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Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 10:17
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Well, I know I wouldn't be able to. Only time will tell, but will we forgive him when he comes crawling back to us?
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 10:21
Hah! We're Prog snobs, remember? He must earn our respect, now! 
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 10:35
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The thought that anyone would vote in this poll seriously is disturbing to me, as it is one of the most useless topics related to music I can think of.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 11:38
Oh bless, I remember when I was a newbie here. Tough times, it really was. But you are right, we all had to earn respect around here ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: MrEdifus
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 11:47
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No vote from me. There are plenty of non-prog songs that use odd and/or topheavy time signatures, and there are blantantly prog songs that make use of 4/4. It's HOW you use it that counts.
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Posted By: progvortex
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 18:30
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Who needs time sigs? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPJxLU9tcFo">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPJxLU9tcFo I say 7/4 is the most progressive. But my favorite oddball time sigs are Keep it Greasy which is in 19/16 and Birds of Fire in what sounds to me like 18/8. Or songs that you never knew went into weird time signatures like Whipping Post 11/4 or Here Comes the Sun, bridge is in 26/8 (11/8 4/4 7/8) haha ------------- Life is like a beanstalk... isn't it? |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 18:47
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 18:54
| seven is a jolly good time |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: April 22 2009 at 21:27
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I find it funny how some say that odd time signatures don't make a prog song, so that means they can't vote.
Of course not! But what would the fun of this poll be? This is about THE MOST progressive time signatures, not which time signatures make a song automatically prog.
I think I should make a "Which mode is most progressive" poll... -------------
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: April 23 2009 at 03:37
You are so correct. And yet, when I try to compose music in my own futile way, I'm always drawn to 5/4. ------------- 
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Posted By: pianomandust
Date Posted: April 23 2009 at 08:38
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Why is 7/8 not an option? I find it is the most "common" uncommon time sig. And no, 7/4 is not the same as 7/8 at all.
------------- and then there was music... |
Posted By: vuh
Date Posted: April 23 2009 at 08:47
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Most prog is in 4/4 and so is most pop music...
Does this mean prog isn't actually prog but is actually pop music...?
My brain hurts.
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 24 2009 at 00:18
4/4 if you know what you're doing and don't get it right 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: April 28 2009 at 09:44
Shh, it's a secret. How are we suppossed to maintain our snobbery with people like you constantly coming here and exposing our dirty secrets‽ Just go back to humming those catchy yes tunes and forget you ever mentioned that 3-letter curse word, eh? Most progressive meter? Definitely 6/6. So progressive that my friend said it doesn't even exist. Yeah... sure it doesn't exist... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">  
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