Artists who actually have something to say
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58029
Printed Date: August 14 2025 at 04:25 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Artists who actually have something to say
Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Subject: Artists who actually have something to say
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 18:54
I'm sure most of you will agree with me when I say that most rock/pop/metal music doesn't have anything interesting to say (unless you count sex, drugs, teen angst, rock and roll, etc among "interesting").
Unfortunately, and here I'm sure most of you will disagree with me ( ), I think that progressive rock doesn't have anything to say either. The majority is either drugs, fantasy, or instrumentals. There are a good amount though which focus on social commentary, philosophy, personal problems, etc. I don't mean only having one or two songs and the rest don't apply, but include that too but only if you include the individual songs/albums that this applies in. The point really is to get bands who are constantly saying something.
So basically, make up a list of bands who have deep thoughtful lyrics that mean something, colorful English imagery a la Genesis doesn't cut it guys (I know that technically selling england is kind of a social commentary, but that's really only in like one song...and the lamb could mean something, but do not list that unless you have some sort of accompanying explanation...).
Anyway, Short list of bands I know:
Marillion (Fish)
Pink Floyd (dark side to final cut)
Queensryche (possibly only operation mindcrime and most of empire)
Tool (philosophical stuff on aenima and lateralus)
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Replies:
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 19:08
Like you said, definetely Pink Floyd and Tool.
Also:
Frank Zappa
Rush
Dream Theater
When the latter two aren't giving narratives or singing about their respective drummers' lifestyles, they actually make some intelligent points, Rush being more societal, DT being more about social acceptance.
Frank Zappa had a great use of parody in a lot of his albums. Parody, especially Zappa's, can carry loads of meaning.
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 19:46
Mmm...Tool have nothing to say and do so at inordinate length
Zappa's lyrics are in the main puerile
Neil Peart of Rush is a war-crime against blank paper
Dream Theater are 'deep' for people who need water-wings to read
Ergo, I agree with the original poster and would add that the vast majority of prog lyrics are the cringeworthy bad poetry of charlatans like Fish, Jim Morrison, Peter Sinfield, Jon Anderson, Greg Lake et al
For what it's worth, there are some genuinely moving and thought provoking lyrics from Peter Hammill, Ange, Floyd (DSOTM), Pete Townshend, Peter Gabriel (SEBTP) and David Bowie
...and two of the foregoing ain't even fully fledged proggers ?
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 19:55
Kerry Livgren. See: Kansas.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 20:29
ExittheLemming wrote:
Mmm...Tool have nothing to say and do so at inordinate length
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Nothing to say?
Stinkfist - A commentary on the importance on opening of one's mind while using sexual imagery and penetration as a metaphor.
Eulogy - Bashing of religious/cult leaders and making a statements against those who follow such leaders.
Forty Six & 2 - A lyrical interpretation of Carl Jung's theory on evolution and chromosomal theory along with the balance of the human mind with the rest of the Earth.
Hooker with a Penis - An angry (and admittedly somewhat immature) statement of consumerism and hypocracy
Die Eier Von Satan - A tongue-in-cheek statement about stereotypes and preconcieved notions (The lyrics of this one alone wouldn't tell you this though)
Ænema - Statement about the pointless worrying of mortal humans and an outright bashing of the attitude of Los Angeles
Third Eye - A description of opening the Third Eye and the spiritual benefits of doing so.
That's only one album. I could go on for a week about Lateralus.
EDIT: It also said nothing about the quality of the lyrics or how 'deep' they are. In that sense, Dream Theater qualifies. In that sense, Scarsick by Pain of Salvation is also an excellent example for this thread, however banal the lyrics may be.
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 20:36
Sound speaks to me far more than the artist's words ever will........which is why I prefer foreign language prog now. Let's my mind concentrate more on the sound I'm hearing. Bliss.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition
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Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 20:46
If we begin to wonder if lyrics are mature or not, we should :
- dismiss a lot of our favourite song-based prog bands
- or listen only to instrumental prog
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 20:52
Roger Waters Hendrix (most of the time) Zappa I really hope Sigur Ros do.I have no idea if it is the case but their music is so beautiful it must do. Jethro Tull (occasionally,in a strange way)
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 21:11
I wholeheartedly disagree with you, DJPuffyLemon, but it's a very interesting topic!
Examples are legion of very good standard love ballads and pop songs, and of those who tackle the same subject (love) with irony or humour. Then, going beyond boy-meets-girl, there are the vast number of protest and otherwise left-wing songs and albums. In fact, if there's a subject of interest in the world, music has something to say about it.
I'll go further. Agreed, song lyrics aren't usually the best poetry (though I'd challenge anyone to do anything but fall in love with, say, Bruce Cockburn's lyrics), but that's because lyricists operate under two constraints that do not apply to poets: * because of the nature of the music business, they are generally very young, and their careers finish before most poets usually start being published. This means their life experience is not as full as that of literary figures. • they are forced to fit their lyrics into the demands of the music. The second point can become an advantage if music and lyrics complement each other.
Prog music generally displays thoughtful lyrics, and this is largely because, since the 1970s, the average age of prog musicians is somewhat older than that of other music genres.
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Posted By: DJPuffyLemon
Date Posted: May 17 2009 at 22:18
mrcozdude wrote:
I really hope Sigur Ros do.I have no idea if it is the case but their music is so beautiful it must do.
| They sing in a made up language called: "Hopelandic"...or so i hear.
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Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 01:48
I'm surprised there is no mention of Porcupine Tree yet.
Fear Of A Blank Planet - The Information age and the way it is (supposedly) taking over the lives and infiltrating the brains of teenagers.
Can't think of any other examples off the top of my head, but watch any interview with Steven Wilson on youtube, and you'll see what he has to say
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Posted By: Dominic
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 02:40
topofsm wrote:
Like you said, definetely Pink Floyd and Tool.
Also:
Frank Zappa
Rush
Dream Theater
When the latter two aren't giving narratives or singing about their respective drummers' lifestyles, they actually make some intelligent points, Rush being more societal, DT being more about social acceptance.
Frank Zappa had a great use of parody in a lot of his albums. Parody, especially Zappa's, can carry loads of meaning. |
I highly agree about all these bands. I believe Sleepytime Gorilla Museum has proposed some interesting lyrical rhetoric ("Angle of Repose" for example) as well.
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 05:21
Pain of Salvation is the obvious choice here. Threshold are a band with surprisingly thoughtful lyrics.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
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Posted By: Dalezilla
Date Posted: May 18 2009 at 05:44
DJPuffyLemon wrote:
mrcozdude wrote:
I really hope Sigur Ros do.I have no idea if it is the case but their music is so beautiful it must do.
| They sing in a made up language called: "Hopelandic"...or so i hear. |
Nope. Not always. A lot of their tracks are in Icelandic. They've also got a lot of their songs translated into English on their website somewhere. Don't remember where exactly though.
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:16
DJPuffyLemon wrote:
I'm sure most of you will agree with me when I say that most rock/pop/metal music doesn't have anything interesting to say (unless you count sex, drugs, teen angst, rock and roll, etc among "interesting").
Unfortunately, and here I'm sure most of you will disagree with me ( ), I think that progressive rock doesn't have anything to say either. The majority is either drugs, fantasy, or instrumentals. There are a good amount though which focus on social commentary, philosophy, personal problems, etc. I don't mean only having one or two songs and the rest don't apply, but include that too but only if you include the individual songs/albums that this applies in. The point really is to get bands who are constantly saying something.
So basically, make up a list of bands who have deep thoughtful lyrics that mean something, colorful English imagery a la Genesis doesn't cut it guys (I know that technically selling england is kind of a social commentary, but that's really only in like one song...and the lamb could mean something, but do not list that unless you have some sort of accompanying explanation...).
Well, at least you acknowledged most will disagree with you  . I have absolutely no interest in an "artist's" opinions. Be they political, social or other. Allow me to amend that. If he is a musician, I will listen to his opinion's on music. That is not to say artists should not express thoughts on social issues. I will just do my best to ignore it.
It seems that only artists who express strong leftist views are regarded as deep and thoughtful. What if a musician held conservative views? He would probably be derided as "reactionary", "extremist" etc.
Anyway, Short list of bands I know:
Marillion (Fish)
Pink Floyd (dark side to final cut)
Queensryche (possibly only operation mindcrime and most of empire)
Tool (philosophical stuff on aenima and lateralus) |
Operation:Mindcrime strikes me as fantasy. From what I gather it's about an "evil" psychiatrist(s) who brainwashes and patient commits murder or something like that. I don't take it as a serious commentary on psychiatry or government.
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:23
sleeper wrote:
Pain of Salvation is the obvious choice here. Threshold are a band with surprisingly thoughtful lyrics. |
Pain of Salvation is a good example of a political leftist being "deep". Gildenlow is a brilliant musician but...
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:24
Many bands we love on this site have things to say, serious things. Waters is the most obvious example, but Rush have tackled serious issues, Porcupine Tree, Hogarth with Marillion wrote an entire album about a teenage runaway. The list is fairly endless, and I don't have time to populate it before I go to the pub .
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:30
"The system we learned says we're equal under law. But the streets are reality, the weak and poor must fall."
"Religion and sex are power plays. Manipulate the people for the money the people for the money they pay. Selling skin, selling God. The numbers look the same on their credit cards."
"Fighting fire with empty words while the fat get fat and the poor stay poor and the rich get rich and the cops get paid to turn away as the 1% rules America."
Sounds like fantasy to me.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:32
In my opinion, The Tangent have some pretty good lyrics and interesting things to say.
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:37
topofsm wrote:
Like you said, definetely Pink Floyd and Tool.
Also:
Frank Zappa
Rush
Dream Theater
When the latter two aren't giving narratives or singing about their respective drummers' lifestyles, they actually make some intelligent points, Rush being more societal, DT being more about social acceptance.
Frank Zappa had a great use of parody in a lot of his albums. Parody, especially Zappa's, can carry loads of meaning. |
Zappa had nothing to say. Unless one regards scatology as worthwhile.
DT are pseudointellectuals. Their lyrics and music are designed to appeal to teenage boys. They know their audience
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:52
Negoba wrote:
"The system we learned says we're equal under law. But the streets are reality, the weak and poor must fall."
"Religion and sex are power plays. Manipulate the people for the money the people for the money they pay. Selling skin, selling God. The numbers look the same on their credit cards."
"Fighting fire with empty words while the fat get fat and the poor stay poor and the rich get rich and the cops get paid to turn away as the 1% rules America."
Sounds like fantasy to me. |
Hmm...Do I detect sarcasm?  These lyrics illustrate my point. Most religious people are honest, upright citizens who have no desire to manipulate anyone. The idea that they do is a media concoction.
The other lyrics are cliche. 1% rules America? I don't have much money but I can do anything I want. If I'm not happy with my lot in life, well it's my own fault.
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:54
I listen to music mainly for the sounds rather than lyrics, but when I do listen for lyrics, I prefer music that doesn't distract me. That's why folk and basic rock has better lyrics, because that's the focal point. When the lyrics and the music both demand your full attention it can be exhausting. (See the Lamb)
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 13:59
staunchally wrote:
Negoba wrote:
"The system we learned says we're equal under law. But the streets are reality, the weak and poor must fall."
"Religion and sex are power plays. Manipulate the people for the money the people for the money they pay. Selling skin, selling God. The numbers look the same on their credit cards."
"Fighting fire with empty words while the fat get fat and the poor stay poor and the rich get rich and the cops get paid to turn away as the 1% rules America."
Sounds like fantasy to me. |
Hmm...Do I detect sarcasm?  These lyrics illustrate my point. Most religious people are honest, upright citizens who have no desire to manipulate anyone. The idea that they do is a media concoction.
The other lyrics are cliche. 1% rules America? I don't have much money but I can do anything I want. If I'm not happy with my lot in life, well it's my own fault. |
Umm, oh kay.
The lyrics are 20 years old, and to some extent they were cliche even then, but the Bush presidency made it not very fantasy-like, and certainly not very funny.
Geoff Tate is heavy handed but it doesn't mean he's wrong.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Posted By: Luke. J
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 14:07
Peter Hammill has some interesting societal and philosophical aspects in his lyrics. Gabriel and Waters may have something to say (even if Waters can be annoying doing that). Add Gildenlöw (yes, he certainly has something to say.. sometimes..).
What really is going on my nerves is that some people these days feel like repeating "Everything is baaad.. sooo baaaaad" in different variations would be the most intellectual and wise thing to say. Maybe we are running into a crash of all there is and I am just inable to see it coming. It also could be possible that lyrical depression is going on my nerves. Playing Nostradamus is not "something to say", at least to me.
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 14:10
Negoba wrote:
staunchally wrote:
[QUOTE=Negoba]"The system we learned says we're equal under law. But the streets are reality, the weak and poor must fall."
"Religion and sex are power plays. Manipulate the people for the money the people for the money they pay. Selling skin, selling God. The numbers look the same on their credit cards."
"Fighting fire with empty words while the fat get fat and the poor stay poor and the rich get rich and the cops get paid to turn away as the 1% rules America."
Sounds like fantasy to me. |
Hmm...Do I detect sarcasm?  These lyrics illustrate my point. Most religious people are honest, upright citizens who have no desire to manipulate anyone. The idea that they do is a media concoction.
The other lyrics are cliche. 1% rules America? I don't have much money but I can do anything I want. If I'm not happy with my lot in life, well it's my own fault. |
Umm, oh kay.
The lyrics are 20 years old, and to some extent they were cliche even then, but the Bush presidency made it not very fantasy-like, and certainly not very funny.
Geoff Tate is heavy handed but it doesn't mean he's wrong.
What's wrong with the Bush Presidency? You see where this will inevitably go? If an artist holds leftist viewpoints he's being deep and thoughtful. If an artist expresses a conservative view, he will be derided as "reactionary", extremist" etc.
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 14:31
staunchally wrote:
The other lyrics are cliche. 1% rules America? I don't have much money but I can do anything I want. If I'm not happy with my lot in life, well it's my own fault.
What's wrong with the Bush Presidency? You see where this will inevitably go? If an artist holds leftist viewpoints he's being deep and thoughtful. If an artist expresses a conservative view, he will be derided as "reactionary", extremist" etc. |
Plenty of liberals are idiots. I personally do not think Gildenlow is very deep at all. His philosophical stuff is about average for a college student, but I'm glad he's tackling the subjects he does rather than the same old same old. Tate was not even trying to be deep (I hope). But their criticism of the capitalist machine is certainly nice in an age where there's not nearly enough political commentary in music.
I run in liberal circles but usually I'm considered the most conservative of the bunch. You'd probably think I was the biggest pinko you'd met lately. If you think you're completely free, I hope your eyes open. At the same time, it's good to be reminded to appreciate what we have. For in the US, it is good for many. It would be nice if was good for more, and if the differences between rich and poor could be closed. In fact, I personally think it is our moral obligation to try to make that happen.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 14:44
Negoba wrote:
staunchally wrote:
The other lyrics are cliche. 1% rules America? I don't have much money but I can do anything I want. If I'm not happy with my lot in life, well it's my own fault.
What's wrong with the Bush Presidency? You see where this will inevitably go? If an artist holds leftist viewpoints he's being deep and thoughtful. If an artist expresses a conservative view, he will be derided as "reactionary", extremist" etc. |
Plenty of liberals are idiots. I personally do not think Gildenlow is very deep at all. His philosophical stuff is about average for a college student, but I'm glad he's tackling the subjects he does rather than the same old same old. Tate was not even trying to be deep (I hope). But their criticism of the capitalist machine is certainly nice in an age where there's not nearly enough political commentary in music.
I run in liberal circles but usually I'm considered the most conservative of the bunch. You'd probably think I was the biggest pinko you'd met lately. If you think you're completely free, I hope your eyes open. At the same time, it's good to be reminded to appreciate what we have. For in the US, it is good for many. It would be nice if was good for more, and if the differences between rich and poor could be closed. In fact, I personally think it is our moral obligation to try to make that happen.
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Well I'm sure we could be here all day  but "criticism of the capitalist machine" Why should it be criticized? How wealthy is Geoff Tate?
"There's not nearly enough political commentary in music" GOOD!
"Differences between rich and poor could be closed" Why and how? A violent socialist revolution?
Oh, I don't think you're the biggest pinko  you should meet some of the people I work with!
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 15:00
"Differences between rich and poor could be closed" Why and how? A violent socialist revolution?
Why? Because in America still, how rich you are determines whether you get the minimal medical care and education that virtually all other 1st world nations take for granted.
How? First, by admitting that all countries are governed by a combination of socialist, capitalist, and autocratic principles. Then use some darned common sense to make policies that serve the greatest number of people to the greatest degree allowed by our resources. A non-violent rational revolution of ideas. I'm still naive enough to think that the American populace is not too stupid for this. I fear I am wrong.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Posted By: steve j
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 15:10
I have always enjoyed Peart's lyrics. I love his metaphors and lyrics, he brings the songs alive. However, due to personal circumstances I find some of his lyrics down right insulting. But that's the point, lyrics should be challenging, be firm in your own mind, and the music carries through.
I like Dream Theater's lyrics also, I find the comment made about about teenage boys above quite rediculous, and sounds like someone's been listening to others. Some of their stuff is quite thought provoking which is the way it ought to be.
Lyrics in prog are important , some of the bands mentioned above could provide some spectacular listenings. Keep posting
Please don't start me on fish!!! Love 'im
Steve J
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 15:11
I don't care about what the lyrics say, as long as the music is good. Of course there are exceptions to that - meaning artists whose lyrics strike a chord within me (regardless of whether their lyrics are inherently good or bad) - but, by and large, I'm in it mainly because of the music.
Ah, Staunchally, if you want to meet a real pinko, here I am... Very frankly speaking, as a European recently moved to the US; the stance of some of the people here frightens the hell out of me. I call it the 'God complex' - believing you can achieve just about everything you want in life, and that if something bad happens, it's your fault. Even if I agree with some of it, I draw the line at people saying things like, if you get sick it's your fault. I've seen people sicken and die through no fault of their own, and reading things like that makes me see red.
*gets off soapbox*
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Posted By: staunchally
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 15:46
Negoba wrote:
"Differences between rich and poor could be closed" Why and how? A violent socialist revolution?
Why? Because in America still, how rich you are determines whether you get the minimal medical care and education that virtually all other 1st world nations take for granted.
How? First, by admitting that all countries are governed by a combination of socialist, capitalist, and autocratic principles. Then use some darned common sense to make policies that serve the greatest number of people to the greatest degree allowed by our resources. A non-violent rational revolution of ideas. I'm still naive enough to think that the American populace is not too stupid for this. I fear I am wrong. |
I'm not rich and I have great medical care. Education is free to all.
How? I like your first sentence but there is no "our" resources. You make some good points but the American populace is not too stupid for maybe seeing it another way. I actually do have to go now. Talk to you soon. 
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Posted By: inrainbows
Date Posted: June 05 2009 at 15:52
Raff wrote:
I don't care about what the lyrics say, as long as the music is good. Of course there are exceptions to that - meaning artists whose lyrics strike a chord within me (regardless of whether their lyrics are inherently good or bad) - but, by and large, I'm in it mainly because of the music.
Ah, Staunchally, if you want to meet a real pinko, here I am... Very frankly speaking, as a European recently moved to the US; the stance of some of the people here frightens the hell out of me. I call it the 'God complex' - believing you can achieve just about everything you want in life, and that if something bad happens, it's your fault. Even if I agree with some of it, I draw the line at people saying things like, if you get sick it's your fault. I've seen people sicken and die through no fault of their own, and reading things like that makes me see red.
*gets off soapbox*
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Same here.! For example , I'm not familiar to German language, but I love a thousand records of German artists, same for Japanese, or Brazilian, or Norwegian language etc., so the lyrics are almost useless for me, but I still love the music 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 12:59
ExittheLemming wrote:
... Ergo, I agree with the original poster and would add that the vast majority of prog lyrics are the cringeworthy bad poetry of charlatans like Fish, Jim Morrison, Peter Sinfield, Jon Anderson, Greg Lake et al ...
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Goodness ... good thing you're not a publisher ...
Jim Morrison is by far one of the better writers and poets ... unffortunately, it is not the kind of rhyme and easy stuff you would understand, I would imagine ...
For the record, Jim was a film major and his lyrics are a mix of surrealism and everything else ... and they have a lot more in common with the arts and film, than they do with a lot of the things that are said here that are off base and basically dis-respectfull of the arts and forms in general. Things like "The Soft Parade" are to rock music what the Luis Bunuel/Salvador Dali L'Age D'Or is to film which was done 75 years ago ...
Unffortunately, few people here are willing, in retrospect, to even see where someone is comeing from and will out right say something is bad ...
Fish is more of an actor than he is a lyricist ... and a lot of the things he uses are actually written by a lot of local writers and poets ...
Jon Anderson is harder to pin down, but while I like things like Topographic Oceans, which comes off as a symphony to my ears, some folks don't like the lyrics ... well, that's like saying that you don't like operas because the librettos suck ... and sometimes they do ... goodness, and someone thinks that's good? But we dismiss it because Turandot and Tosca and this and that are wonderful to listen to ... no harm and no fowl ... there ...
I mean really, so you gonna tell me next that Shakespeare is always great? No, he is not ... and there is a lot of filler in there too!
Greg Lake ... I agree, mostly because his 2 solo albums were really sad ... and bad. But what made him in ELP was not the lyrics ... it was the accent on the words with the music that made it really powerful and often made the words bigger and more important than they really were ... but we remember Epitath and he sang that ... so you have to admit that there is some magic to the voice and music combination ...
As for the others that you consider writers, I would agree most heartedly that Hammill is special ... although I do not consider Bowie that great ... but he is a very good actor (including his films) and is very well trained and taught by some of the best acting schools and teachers of this century, to the point where he can make something sound better and say it better ... as such, a lot of his lyrics will sound better than they really are ... but don't forget that he is a part of that circle of Burroughs family ... he likes to take all the lyrics and thrown the words up in the air and just sing them as they come down ... regardless of sequence, and this often makes something appear to be better ... and it may not be. But acting through it is a very tough exercise that most actors are not capable of doing ...
Just remember that a lot of "prog" is the young folks that will make it a literature of tomorrow ... and these folks are important to yours and mine growth ... without their understanding of things and us relating to their medium, a lot of arts would be utterly meaningless ... you might as well spend your life gloryfying the hollywood blockbusters and intelectualize nothing-ness instead ... actually you would be gloryfying commerciality and advertising ... but that's another story.
Thx
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 13:12
Raff wrote:
I don't care about what the lyrics say, as long as the music is good. Of course there are exceptions to that - meaning artists whose lyrics strike a chord within me (regardless of whether their lyrics are inherently good or bad) - but, by and large, I'm in it mainly because of the music.
Ah, Staunchally, if you want to meet a real pinko, here I am... Very frankly speaking, as a European recently moved to the US; the stance of some of the people here frightens the hell out of me. I call it the 'God complex' - believing you can achieve just about everything you want in life, and that if something bad happens, it's your fault. Even if I agree with some of it, I draw the line at people saying things like, if you get sick it's your fault. I've seen people sicken and die through no fault of their own, and reading things like that makes me see red. *gets off soapbox*
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Thank you ...
I tend to say the same thing differently and from an European point of view and some people don't get it ... check out the post sequence about the Cold War ... it falls into this area a lot.
Also, this country is insulated ... it has oceans on each side ... and when they turn onthe radio, they hear the same thing. They turn on the tv, and see the same things. They turn on to go to the movies and can only enjoy stuff that is gloryfied by the news media that owns it and everyone thinks its great ...
And when someone says otherwise ... some get offended.
Reminds me of a Nobel Prize winner that said something like ... "the country that has the most freedoms uses them the least." ... and I would like to add that in America a lot of the arts are meaningless ... utterly trashed in newspapers and places like this ... simply because the "USA Today would not know the difference between ballett and rap.
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 13:24
Chris Cutler, Fred Frith, Robert Wyatt....
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Posted By: Diaby
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 13:33
staunchally wrote:
topofsm wrote:
Like you said, definetely Pink Floyd and Tool.
Also:
Frank Zappa
Rush
Dream Theater
When the latter two aren't giving narratives or singing about their respective drummers' lifestyles, they actually make some intelligent points, Rush being more societal, DT being more about social acceptance.
Frank Zappa had a great use of parody in a lot of his albums. Parody, especially Zappa's, can carry loads of meaning. |
Zappa had nothing to say. Unless one regards scatology as worthwhile.
DT are pseudointellectuals. Their lyrics and music are designed to appeal to teenage boys. They know their audience |
Yeah, most teenage boys are highly interested in stem cell research and the misrepresentation of the name of God.
------------- yeah
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Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 13:36
Not a big fan of musicians when they feel they need to use their music to say something. I love Zappa but I can't listen to Broadway the Hard Way because he sacrificed his lyrical creativity to instead bludgeon you with an musical opinion column. Roger Waters solo work is just awful but it's not entirely because of his lyrics. Part of the Union by the Strawbs kills me because it's such a catchy tune but man do i hate unions.
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Time always wins.
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 13:37
Diaby wrote:
staunchally wrote:
topofsm wrote:
Like you said, definetely Pink Floyd and Tool.
Also:
Frank Zappa
Rush
Dream Theater
When the latter two aren't giving narratives or singing about their respective drummers' lifestyles, they actually make some intelligent points, Rush being more societal, DT being more about social acceptance.
Frank Zappa had a great use of parody in a lot of his albums. Parody, especially Zappa's, can carry loads of meaning. |
Zappa had nothing to say. Unless one regards scatology as worthwhile.
DT are pseudointellectuals. Their lyrics and music are designed to appeal to teenage boys. They know their audience |
Yeah, most teenage boys are highly interested in stem cell research and the misrepresentation of the name of God. |
OK, the subject matter of some of DT's songs may be esoteric or serious, but I was pretty turned off by how amateur The Great Debate is. I think it's clearly their worst attempt at conveying a message. The lyrics are straight horrible.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 13:44
Personal/Relationships:
Fish Porcupine Tree/Steve Wilson (some might say it's in a childish way, though) Rush Van der Graaf Generator/Peter Hammill
Societal:
Frank Zappa Queensryche Rush
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want!
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 13:59
manofmystery wrote:
I love Zappa but I can't listen to Broadway the Hard Way because he sacrificed his lyrical creativity to instead bludgeon you with an musical opinion column. |
Can't agree with you on that. Lyrical creativity and political opinions in lyrics are not mutually exclusive. It was primarily a political statement on US '80's politics and a brilliant one that. But I can see those leaning to the right might not like what he had to say.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 14:29
OK, part le first: Peter Gabriel.
Unfortunately, and here I'm sure most of you will disagree with me ( ),
I think that progressive rock doesn't have anything to say either. The
majority is either drugs, fantasy, or instrumentals. There are a good
amount though which focus on social commentary, philosophy, personal
problems, etc. I don't mean only having one or two songs and the rest
don't apply, but include that too but only if you include the
individual songs/albums that this applies in. The point really is to
get bands who are constantly saying something.
So basically, make up a list of bands who have deep thoughtful
lyrics that mean something, colorful English imagery a la Genesis
doesn't cut it guys (I know that technically selling england is kind of
a social commentary, but that's really only in like one song...and the
lamb could mean something, but do not list that unless you have some
sort of accompanying explanation...). |
Gabriel's imagery and ideas are actually pretty specific at times, Selling England acts as commentary, mainly, The Musical Box (especially if you check out one of the costumed live performances) challenges our views of good and evil, in that there is no unsympathetic character, but at the same time, all those involved are dislikeable... so, it's something to say rather about us than about society. Harold The Barrel engages with the press and the public's judgmental nature... his solo lyrics are admittedly generally a bit clearer in what they're aiming at, with the sympathetic lament of San Jacinto or Lead A Normal Life, as well as the iconic Biko.
More, if you take Selling England back into its context... I'm fairly confident it's about the devaluation of English life... . The Cinema Show, as a vague rerendering of part of Eliot's The Waste Land with sex being treated as an end or a fact of life rather than something important, I Know What I Like takes on the ... The Battle Of Epping Forest is a wry commentary on the press's enthusiasm for a story, and Aisle Of Plenty and Dancing With The Moonlit Knight deal with the economic drive of people.
The Lamb, of course, is mainly a death thing, and I think it's more proposing the problem than the answer... in spite of the layers of literary reference (A Clockwork Orange stands out as one parallel). Foxtrot has a particularly intelligent and witty piece in the form of Get 'Em Out By Friday, combining corporate greed with the idea of eugenics quite creatively.
Just for the sake of The Cinema Show's point
TS Eliot, The Waste Land wrote:
]He, the young man carbuncular, arrives, | |
A small house agent's clerk, with one bold stare, | |
One of the low on whom assurance sits | |
As a silk hat on a Bradford millionaire. | |
The time is now propitious, as he guesses, | 235 |
The meal is ended, she is bored and tired, | |
Endeavours to engage her in caresses | |
Which still are unreproved, if undesired. | |
Flushed and decided, he assaults at once; | |
Exploring hands encounter no defence; | 240 |
His vanity requires no response, | |
And makes a welcome of indifference. ...
She turns and looks a moment in the glass, | |
Hardly aware of her departed lover; | 250 |
Her brain allows one half-formed thought to pass: | |
'Well now that's done: and I'm glad it's over.' | |
When lovely woman stoops to folly and | |
Paces about her room again, alone, | |
She smoothes her hair with automatic hand, | 255 |
And puts a record on the gramophone. |
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The second will be about Peter Hammill, no doubt, but I'm very bad at deciding on good examples for him, since there are too many.
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 14:40
I had no idea T. S. Eliot was a member of this forum!
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: June 10 2009 at 14:44
So, now, Peter Hammill, who usually has something to say (and it's not the kind of sob story that you hear every day), is both extremely prolific and pretty consistent... so, cutting it down to the most obvious one:
Social Message
I suppose the first things you could really lump into this category or the philosophical one are off H To He, Who Am The Only One... the exploration of loneliness, in the metaphors of Killer and House With No Door, that personal greed and aggression will only leave you worse off in the end. More specifically, however, his early solo career, whether through another metaphor as in Forsaken Gardens or the more direct attack of The Future Now and pH7... between them directed against just about everything you could direct a protest against. After those two, he seems to relax a bit about it, though the occasional Painting By Numbers and the like sort of continue the tradition.
The philosophy aspect, of course, is pretty constant, in one form or another, from The Aerosol Grey Machine through to Singularity... I look forwards to seeing whether Thin Air continues the tradition.
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Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: June 11 2009 at 17:00
TGM: Orb wrote:
OK, part le first: Peter Gabriel.
The Battle Of Epping Forest is a wry commentary on the press's enthusiasm for a story, and Aisle Of Plenty and Dancing With The Moonlit Knight deal with the economic drive of people.
The Lamb, of course, is mainly a death thing, and I think it's more proposing the problem than the answer... in spite of the layers of literary reference (A Clockwork Orange stands out as one parallel). Foxtrot has a particularly intelligent and witty piece in the form of Get 'Em Out By Friday, combining corporate greed with the idea of eugenics quite creatively.
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True - more specifically it's railing against the glorification of gangsters by the UK Press, who went through a phase of presenting the Kray Twins and their like as some kind of working class heroes who loved their mums. As a born Londoner, trust me that the parodies are full of insight - it can come across as en excuse for some silly vocal tones from Gabriel, but that;s not the real point of it and it's a very accurate commentary, believe me.
True again - it's probably inspired by the activities of a notorious1950s London landlord called Rachmann, whose name later became synonymous with rip-off, violence and nasty rental practise in general.
------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Posted By: avalanchemaster
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 20:21
I get all of my philosophical/theological meditations from bands such as Solefald, Deathspell Omega (the kings of theological exploration and human anguish/absurdity), Thought Industry (best lyrics EVER penned.... like reading high brow prose actually), Swans, Emperor, The Residents are a huge critical/satirical think-tank who have been commenting about the lurid state of society; for many years they have been at work, anonymously saying what needs to be said.... rhetorically or otherwise. Early Neurosis is Anarchist/social neurosis/state of the human condition- type lyrical content... amazing commentary even to this day (that second disc, The Word As Law, is to this day- my favorite Hardcore album ever---- with f**king amazing bass-playing!). Zappa indeed! ......................................... Pain Of Salvation.... Cynic...
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/shops/storefront/index.html?ie=UTF8&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&sellerID=AP
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 21:08
Hate to break it to y'all - even boy-girl songs can still be written that say something special for the ages. Even country songs, metal tunes, reggae, punk. If you're a fan of a genre, chances are you'll find some artists that speak to you. And some that just write great songs. AC/DC's Rocker is not the deepest song lyric. BUT GOD, IF YOU LOVE HARD ROCK, AND SING ALONG WITH IT, YOU CAN'T BUT FEEL ALIVE. Why ? Not because of a deep message. All it says is "hey, I'm having fun!" "Joy oh Joy, I'm rocking again, and I'll be back tomorrow and rock then." Or maybe that is a deep message.
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: June 13 2009 at 21:12
P.S. - John Hiatt has written some very deep personal songs. "Have a Little Faith". One young fella I know is a vegetarian because of some of the punk bands he listened to in his teenage years. He's not into feeling superior because of it, no more than the fact that some of his political convictions were formed (or represented) by some punk song lyrics he loves.
Lemmy's been known to toss a few great aphorisms around in his words , too ...
------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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