Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation - The Krautrock appreciation thread

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The Krautrock appreciation thread

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Forum Name: Prog Bands, Artists and Genres Appreciation
Forum Description: Discuss specific prog bands and their members or a specific sub-genre
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=59185
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Topic: The Krautrock appreciation thread

Posted By: BaldFriede
Subject: The Krautrock appreciation thread
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 13:03

Put simply, a thread for the cool people on PA.

That of course is a joke because no one is cool on PA

Anyways, this is my favourite genre without a doubt, and most of the bands are included here on the archives. To give a few examples of this music, I will mention a few albums:

Amon Düül 2 - Phallus Dei
Can - Tago Mago
Dzyan - Electric Silence
Guru Guru - Känguru
Embryo - Rocksession
Faust - Same
Cosmic Jokers - Galactic Supermarket

Some may think: Well, Krautrock is a genre of the past, but this is not true; there are bands which still carry the torch, for example:
Psychedelic Monsterjam - Intergalactic Travel Agency
Space Explosion - Same

No genre ever was that experimental, not even RIO (though they came pretty close).

This of course is an answer to Pessimist's "Progressive Death Metal Appreciation" post. Wink

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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

Replies:

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 13:11

I played The Faust Tapes yesterday for the first time in years.

Brilliant!

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http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 13:13

Tough time appreciating a lot of krautrock, but ADII is definitely my favorite. Wolf City and Yeti are great albums.

Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 14:40

I'm a Kraut noob but I like what I've heard. AD2 especially. Sinkadoten will have some faves here I"m sure.

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If you love cats, please adopt an older cat. They've been in a cage far too long, and they long for a home.

Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 14:48

To me, Amon Düül II's first album was the best one. Wolf City was too gentle and I was lost when listening to Lemmings Dance.
I have some hard time with Faust, except for a few songs.

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 15:04

I've started my Krautrock "research" (like I did with other genres too, such as Folk, Avant/RIO or Canterbury) and I still have plenty more music to discover/listen to. Apart from Cosmic Jokers and Ash Ra/Ashra (who trailed alongside TD and Schulze in my early music collection), I also singled out bands like Floh de Cologne, Xhol Caravan/Xhol, Kluster (pure gold experimentation).

AD is a popular subject here, so I'll say a few words. The "original" AD ensemble made the best music, with just one tiny disaster rightly named just like that as an album. With ADII, the ecstasy breaks somewhere after the first two albums (my favourite is Yeti), nevertheless until Made In Germany it's all worth it. After that, it's sadly a different kind of music, and the 90s comeback didn't impress me either. Depressing singing and playing in Live In Tokyo, while Flawless has a few on-the-surface pieces, but it's still pretty forgettable.

AD UK were a surprise, there's a vintage sound and some great rock songs. Meeting With Menmachines was an album I liked very much.

Lately, I was also impressed by Between's And The Waters Opened and Brave New World's Impression On Reading Aldous Huxley.

But I would daring to actually move away from the classics or the obvious, and put a different question on the table, which may not be to everyone's knowledge: how are bands like 80 Karat Gold, the 7''-one offs Alaska Range, Baumstam, Blackbirds or Blackwater Park. A krautrock fan focused on the psychedelic, experimental, drenching or hallucinating side of this side could find in the abovemention simply rock music, sometimes (but not overall significant) with a more ragged sound, but mostly barely reaching proto-prog state and fitting a rock or hard rock profile. Is this Krautrock too, or just German early 70s Rock? Even Arktis aren't really what you would expect, with just standard songs, and energetic yet unrevolutionary gearing. It sure confused me, compared to AD, Annexus Quam, Between or Faust.

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Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 21:07

heavily appreciated Thumbs Up

Can is probably my favorite, tago mago and ege bamyesi being favorites from them.

Interesting and surprisingly diverse genre, to have something like faust, can, Ash Ra, Ammon duul 2, harmonium, and Guru Guru all lumped together makes for some adventurous exploring.

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http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to

Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 21:12

It's a pity I had started a krautrock thread a couple of months ago , we should put this two together so we can at least reach three pages!

By the way: BRAINTICKET

Posted By: micky
Date Posted: June 30 2009 at 21:30

BaldFriede wrote:

Put simply, a thread for the cool people on PA.

Guru Guru - Känguru

well...I need to stay away I guess... but before I go. I couldn't second that Guru Guru album more heartily. I LOVE that album. Clap

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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 10:00

BaldFriede wrote:

Put simply, a thread for the cool people on PA.

Amon Düül 2 - Phallus Dei
Can - Tago Mago
Dzyan - Electric Silence
Guru Guru - Känguru
Embryo - Rocksession
Faust - Same
Cosmic Jokers - Galactic Supermarket

Some may think: Well, Krautrock is a genre of the past, but this is not true; there are bands which still carry the torch, for example:

Not a bad start ... but if you do not catch each of these bands first 3 or 4 albums, you will be missing out on what the term really means ... it was originally slated to mean the free form experimentations and sonic improvisations that many of these bands did ... and as such ... it looks like you kinda missed the boat and just listed your favorites instead -- and I don't think that's what you want to do!

AD2 ... the first album is important, more for its title than its music. I still think that this is more of a commentary on the status of their commune than anything else ... in other words, the real reason for the commune was the free sex and nothing else ... and I have a feeling that Renate and others were tired of it and wanted to move on ... or by the time you have a child ... I think that you grow out of this exprimental phaze maybe?

The same thing happened in SF .. it was not the music or the drugs that killed it ... it was the rampant and abuses that involved sex that killed it. Few survived it and the devastation to AIDS in that area was horrendous ... something that I don't think that was as prevalent in Europe.

AD2 really starts in Yeti and to my ears ends in Vive La Trance ... with Apocalyptic Bore ... which is a song that says it all and for all intents and purposes it really clarifies the music scene in that time and place ... somehow, when they all got tired of getting stoned (so it seems) they think they lost the spark to fly ... well, at least the guitar rocked out one more time in a fabilous duet with the violin ... and to me this is an anthem that is as important to the state of music in that time, as Jimi's was 5 years earlier when he played the anthem amidst all the trash ... nothing mattered to anyone anymore ... not even your country! No one cared anymore. All that was left behind was trash .... and more trash! ... and as the lyrics go ... everything is gonna be ok ... and the duets take over.

CAN ... I agree that Tago Mago is fabulous ... and again notice that these are "improvisations" and that the album before also had them. The following album and the rest of the CAN library lost all free form improvisations for "composition" ... and that is not necessarily a bad thing as Ege Bamyasi, Future Days, Soon Over Babbalooma and Landed ... are fabulous albums and the musical irreverence in Landed is awesome ... unffortunately it made the 'krautrock" scene now come across as intelligent as opposed to improvisational ... and it closed the book on the era for the most part. Somehow, well schooled people all of a sudden think that improvisations are worthless? Even Pink Floyd did the same thing!

DZYAN ... need to hear it again ... sorry ... don't know it well enough.

GURUGURU ... weird that you start with their 3rd (4th? - I don't remember) album ... which is the first one that almost sounds like a Jimi Hendrix trip along ... where the other albums have the two most famous songs of theirs that are some of the original "krautrock" slam dunks.

EMBRYO ... it should be stated here that Embryo was not interested in doing things as a rock band, and that Peter Michael Hamel was already on his way to an academic career and writing a book or two (From Music To The Self) ... and he would not appreciate this band considered "krautrock" when in essence they were far more into the jazz area of things and conceptual stuff. Can't say that I found too many rock elements in their music at all, and I think this is intentional on Peter's part.

FAUST ... probably the most experimental of them all, but they came from another experimental area in Germany ... but did something else with it. You must NOT forget that at the time the German equivalent of the Living Theater were the likes of Peter Handke, and Peter Weiss and eventually folks like Wim Wenders came out of that area. Handke's plays were word plays ... and very difficult to stage ... and guess what FAUST is ... a recorded same thing, but with sound effects and fun and weird stuff ... and lyrics that did the same thing. Was it original? Yes ... but not as original as Handke.

This theater scene that "everything is art" and "everything in sound is music" had started some years earlier, but it had not taken hold until some different things were done with it ... and FAUST put together some fun stuff that made yo go ... wow ... and surprisingly enough forced you to try and make a story of the effects, which of course there was none ... and that was the point ... get your mind working on your own. That was what a lot of this type of challenging film and theater scene was all about ... and I really believe that these people were trying to do the same thing within the musical context and they succeeded.

COSMIC JOKERS ... is not a part of the krautrock scene and for the most part its main drivers (Schulze and Gottsching) never thought so either. But like so many of their counter parts they were 2 of the most important people in the expose of improvisational music, albeit, I would tend to consider this a "guided improvisation" and you color the details with your instrument.

In the end, this provided two of the very best instrumentalists in the free form realm. Both Klaus Schulze and Manuel Gottsching are phenomenal in this area today, and still are experimenting with it, albeit the music is not exaclty hard rock, or as rough as it was then.

I consider the Cosmic Couriers (Jokers was the name of one the albums) a way to figure out how to use electronics with rock music ... and it was clear that a couple of things were going to break out of here ... one became Ash Ra Tempel, and the other Popol Vuh and a couple of other bands that were not as vital or important as these two were and became. Ash Ra Tempel went into a more rock area, with Schwingungen and Join Inn, and then Starring Rosi and only broke the mold in their 6th album (Inventions for an Electric Guitar) ... where as Popol Vuh went immediately into a meditation/spiritual space and their music ended up being used in Werner Herzog films although I would state here that while it was done to great effect the only film where the music is important is Aguirre, where the other films the music is only a filler more than anything else.

In essence, hte Cosmic Couriers really came AFTER ... since it was a conglomeration of the musicians already recorded in other places. And in some ways things like Galactic Supermarket and Gilles Zeitchiff were a sort of attempt to present these artists from this very label ... they never were a band per se ... as far as I know.

But the Cosmic Couriers were not afraid to let you know that they were experimenting and you missed the important words that Timothy Leary has in the Seven Up album ... "get into the vibes of the music" ... which I can tell you that they did ... the rest of them went commercial and thought that a lyric was enough to make you feel a vibe.

Which it is not!

That is an illusion ... and it is what a lot of those word games and experimental theater, film, art and literature is all about!!!

ASH RA TEMPEL ... should be here instead of the Cosmic Couriers ... and while in at least 3 of their albums they went for what could be considered a romantic fanatasy with very nice sounding women vocalizing through out (Schwingungen/JoinInn/Starring Rosi) which made the stuff somewhat of a sexy fantasy for guys, But the 6th album is a major break through ... the very first all guitar album looped all over the place. And then the next one, is the one that no one gives them credit for ... the very first New Age album properly called "New Age of Earth" ... and it is one of the most beautiful things ever done on vinyl musically wise. Since then, Manuel Gottsching has done some things as AshRa and also has a couple of albums of improvisations with Klaus Schulze (In Blue) which are phenomenal, but a difficult listen for western audiences that are conditioned to just 3 or 4 minute songs.

The most important premise of those days in Krautrock is what we never mention ... it was not about the radio or 3 minute song ... it was about the music and its vibe .. the length was not an issue ... and this is the single most important thing that music has lost since then ...

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 10:46

crimson87 wrote:

It's a pity I had started a krautrock thread a couple of months ago , we should put this two together so we can at least reach three pages!

By the way: BRAINTICKET

The debut was a crazy listen for me. Delirious vocals!

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Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 11:05

I just found my Can DVD for the first time since I moved house over a year ago.

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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 11:07

Ricochet wrote:

crimson87 wrote:

It's a pity I had started a krautrock thread a couple of months ago , we should put this two together so we can at least reach three pages!

By the way: BRAINTICKET

The debut was a crazy listen for me. Delirious vocals!

The delirious vocals are in the Cottonwood Hill album ... and there is a warning on that album! Psychonaut and Celestial Ocean are not delirious at all ...

I had a lady listen to cottonwood Hill once and you know what she said? ... "You men must all think that every woman is that confused during sex ... or anything else!"

I always loved that reply ... but the album is totally nuts ... and a lot of fun to listen to in my book ... and my favorite part is seeing how many people drop out and how fast!

Goes to show you how much they can handle reality!

hehehehe

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 11:13

moshkito wrote:

Ricochet wrote:

crimson87 wrote:

It's a pity I had started a krautrock thread a couple of months ago , we should put this two together so we can at least reach three pages!

By the way: BRAINTICKET

The debut was a crazy listen for me. Delirious vocals!

The delirious vocals are in the Cottonwood Hill album ... and there is a warning on that album! Psychonaut and Celestial Ocean are not delirious at all ...

I had a lady listen to cottonwood Hill once and you know what she said? ... "You men must all think that every woman is that confused during sex ... or anything else!"

I always loved that reply ... but the album is totally nuts ... and a lot of fun to listen to in my book ... and my favorite part is seeing how many people drop out and how fast!

Goes to show you how much they can handle reality!

hehehehe

I said the debut, did I not? That's Cottonwoodhill, with the two-part "Brainticket' epic.

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Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 14:19

Many talented kraut disciples have come to the fore these years,I'm thinking about Circle,Pharaoh Overlord,Space Debris,Acid Mothers Temple,Turzi,Marble Sheep......Krautrock will never die!It's too innovative,powerful and dreamy to fade away.Many reissues these times too such as Ibliss,Haboob...

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I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world

of searchers with the help from

crimson king

Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 17:38

I'm probably, more than anything, a Symphonic Prog fan, and you can throw some Folk influenced Prog in there. But I have no problem telling you that I'm huge into Can. I have nearly their whole catalogue. I love their jam side, especially with vocals (like Halleluhwah for instance). And I'm especially intrigued by their three pop-song-like songs because their approach is so weirdly tentative (Tango Wiskeyman, Mushroom, Vitamin C).

Given this, can someone really tell me newer bands that carried this torch? I'm looking for suggestions here, but I mean REALLY carried this particular torch unequivocally, not just somewhat. It's ok if there aren't any, I'm just wondering and I'm sure there are plenty of experts on the matter that will be attracted to this thread.

So help a brother out.

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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 17:51

American Khatru wrote:

I'm probably, more than anything, a Symphonic Prog fan, and you can throw some Folk influenced Prog in there. But I have no problem telling you that I'm huge into Can. I have nearly their whole catalogue. I love their jam side, especially with vocals (like Halleluhwah for instance). And I'm especially intrigued by their three pop-song-like songs because their approach is so weirdly tentative (Tango Wiskeyman, Mushroom, Vitamin C).

Given this, can someone really tell me newer bands that carried this torch? I'm looking for suggestions here, but I mean REALLY carried this particular torch unequivocally, not just somewhat. It's ok if there aren't any, I'm just wondering and I'm sure there are plenty of experts on the matter that will be attracted to this thread.

So help a brother out.

Can is one of the most unique bands in the history of prog ...I can't think of any bands that even come close.

...sorry

Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: July 01 2009 at 18:11

^ Yeah, I was afraid of that. Cry

Thanks for the honesty.

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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:02

fusionfreak wrote:

Many talented kraut disciples have come to the fore these years,I'm thinking about Circle,Pharaoh Overlord,Space Debris,Acid Mothers Temple,Turzi,Marble Sheep......Krautrock will never die!It's too innovative,powerful and dreamy to fade away.Many reissues these times too such as Ibliss,Haboob...

I'm not sure that it will happen ... and I'm not saying that we need to hear the same thing again.

Here's why ...

Art scenes don't usually duplicate ... the feelings and the transformations are different. In the late 60's and the same thing goes for music, theater and film, there is a lot of experimentation ... even Yoko One was one of them ... the white wall with a dot on it ... it was all about breaking down the mechanized expressions and seeing things differently, and this was a fall out from the 50's and many artistic scenes that had started with the surrealistic movement ... from Sartre, Camus, Orton, Beckett, Pinter and others, and later the alienation that the American writers were showing in theater with Williams, Albee and many others ...

The Living Theater, and many other experiments, created a visual point, that was very good for music and lighting and such and this is something that art schools (like the major one in Berlin -- where so many of the bands we loved came from, btw!!!) loved playing around with.

As such the "free love", "free living", sharing the space, and many other concepts would bleed into the arts ... and for music this meant "experimentation", which we got to see full blast with Amon Duul 1 ... and when that ended, or dried up it became Amon Duul 2 ... and that's when you can see that the times started changing, or the kids were growing up ... or as The Who said ... the kids were alright ... even if they were stoned and out of it ... they meant well.

At that time, there was a very high level of acceptance for improvisations ... today there is not ... and until we allow these improvisations and experiments to "live" and "allow the seeds to grow" ... the chances of a musical band doing this by themselves is not likely ... the "support" and value that you gain from your friends also doing it and sharing the experience and how they see it ... is what makes something like this come alive ... and places like America are so "separated" from their source because of commercialism, that I am not sure that it can happen ... unless there is a revolution of sorts. And that is not likely, I do not think.

I am of the opinion that until the day that we see ALL music labels on the Internet selling their work bia download, the chance of seeing something different is going to be extremely difficult ... witness ECM, a massive jazz oriented label (horrible description of half their music) that has 40 years of music recordings and still not getting them online ... and you can have an idea of how, in the heck can anyone find out about these people ... it's tough.

My hope is that the sell via download explodes ... and this will open the way for jazz places, classical music places and it will hurt the likes of iTunes and other biggies that do not give a darn about serious music, since after all they are in it for the money, not the music ...

The new scenes and ears will be simply different ... and yes, my hope is that the popular music stigma finally die so we can start taking music more seriously by people that deserve it ... most of these "krautrock" folks are very well educated musicians and knew very well what they were doing and were not afraid to try things ... and that is something that you can learn with stage and film people around you ... rehearsal time baby ... which is something that musicians in general are not very good at doing due to them not have a director or person to help them see "outside of themselves" ....

The other side of it, is the eastern influence in the music ... if the proliferation of japanese, hindu and other eastern arts and music gets better and stronger in this "world market" illusion thing, one can only hope that dirges and ragas make it here (again) and be shown and discussed and even played with rock instruments ... which, as I have said all along, is what many of these people were doing ... rock ragas! But in this fast pace western world where all experience ends after the guitar solo or 3 minutes, your chance of seeing more than just a hint and appreciating it again ... are minimal at best.

The closest America came to these art scenes was the NY scene that gave us many talents and for music ended up giving us the likes of Velvet Underground, Andy Warhol, the Pollocks, the Basquiats .... LA almost had a scene but drugs decimated it before it could take off. Hollywood has always been known for its excesses anyway! SF had a scene that was pretty much decimated by its abuses with sex and drugs and its unreal decimation with AIDS for many years after.

It won't be the same the same ... times change and so do people and places.

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:19

Captain Capricorn wrote:

Can is one of the most unique bands in the history of prog ...I can't think of any bands that even come close.

...sorry

And you can see where I am coming from ... CAN's early works were with an American actor ... and then Malcom Mooney and then Damo ... and "acting" involves a lot of free form experimentation in rehearsal to get actors to loosen up and find their center better ... and you can see where this helps the music get focused ...

But I seriously doubt you can do this in America where things are so separated and people are into "rock'n'roll" or "jazz" or any other idiotic description, to have any kind of idea of what an artistic gumption and discovery is all about.

Not giving a darn, about history and its lessons (this board is the best example you will ever find!) is the other issue!

And if you ever get a chance, read Peter Michael Hamel's book ... "From Music To The Self" .... which clarifies unintentionally, a lot of these things. He has become quite an "academic" and has a tendency to dislike things way too much, but it will give you an idea of what kind of people and musicians you were dealing with ... these were not "kids".

Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:37

^ Moshkito, following on your last two impassioned and well reasoned posts...

I don't know that we today (listeners AND musicians) have the will to do it (yes, general American willingness to die inside is a problem! and the kind that spreads!!), and I certainly don't have it figured out, ... but I have this feeling I can't quite put my finger on that we are poised to achieve another great run in making and availability of music if we only take it. I say this because of the internet as it is currently constituted; you can count on it that one day it'll be a real jackass scene because the mega-media (most of it American sh*theads) will get laws spun their way and make it into something that works for their horrid aims. But right now we are here, it's exciting, and we get at least a few years more. I don't quite know how to put it, just a sense that something is here for the taking for now. And if I'm right, and we dig in now, we just might preserve this scrap of free expression. Thoughts anyone, other than suggesting I'm paranoid?

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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 14:40

Ricochet wrote:

I said the debut, did I not? That's Cottonwoodhill, with the two-part "Brainticket' epic.

I stand corrected ... I always thought that Cottonwood Hill was their 3rd album ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottonwoodhill - Cottonwoodhill (1971)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Psychonaut_%28Album%29&action=edit&redlink=1 - Psychonaut (1972)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Celestial_Ocean&action=edit&redlink=1 - Celestial Ocean (1974)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adventure_%28Album%29&action=edit&redlink=1 - Adventure (1980)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Voyage_%28Brainticket_Album%29&action=edit&redlink=1 - Voyage (1982)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alchemic_Universe&action=edit&redlink=1 - Alchemic Universe (2000)

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 15:29

American Khatru wrote:

^ Moshkito, following on your last two impassioned and well reasoned posts...

I don't know that we today (listeners AND musicians) have the will to do it (yes, general American willingness to die inside is a problem! and the kind that spreads!!), and I certainly don't have it figured out, ... but I have this feeling I can't quite put my finger on that we are poised to achieve another great run in making and availability of music if we only take it. I say this because of the internet as it is currently constituted; you can count on it that one day it'll be a real jackass scene because the mega-media (most of it American sh*theads) will get laws spun their way and make it into something that works for their horrid aims. But right now we are here, it's exciting, and we get at least a few years more. I don't quite know how to put it, just a sense that something is here for the taking for now. And if I'm right, and we dig in now, we just might preserve this scrap of free expression. Thoughts anyone, other than suggesting I'm paranoid?

Thanks for the kind words ... havig been born in Portugal, lived in Brazil and then America ... kinda shows you the world a little bit ... and being a part of a high level literary family on top of that ... you can see that I already knew music, theater, film and the arts in general ... and Jorge Amado was as familiar to me as Andy Warhol, or Julian Beck, or Twila Tharp, or Harold Pinter or Fellini and Bunuel! And for the most part "rock stars" were simply overblown by the media ... they did not have any literary/artistic content whatsoever ... and many times it was just a simple kissipoo clever llyric. And for the most part, a lot of the break down and descriptions of prog end up defaulting to a musical pattern or theme, or keyboards 9for example) as a way to create a new something or to validate prog.

No one goes out of their way to create "prog" .. people go out of their way to create "their music" and "their art" ....

To the majority of the people here, they do not see the connection and the results of a lot of these arts at the time ... I imagine that their school education never had enough arts education for them to even have an idea ... even history of painting, or music ... anything simple ... so that it would make a lot more sense.

Very few, and I mean extremely few art scenes come out of the blue ... out of one person ... or out of nowhere. The two most visible of these are the neo-raphaelites and theh 30 years later, the surrealists that sprung into the world with a film (Luis Bunuel) that obliterated the imagination (L'Age D'Or) ... and busted wide open the experimentation context of many other arts in Europe ... not as much in America and I think the media had a lot to do with it ... I can't help thinking that Orson Wells and his ______ with the Hearsts were not important or not happening with others ... and he used radio to bust it wide open, something that most artists are not activists enough and believe in themselves enough to do! (Citizen Kane is the movie btw and War of the Worlds was the radio thing) ....

I always think that things can bust out at any time ... I really thought that if America did not make a real major change (Obama or Hillary) that it would come even sooner ... the rest remains to be seen ... I really think that we have to respect the arts more in America and schools ... otherwise it will be just another culture wipe just like 200 and 300 years ago in America.

But I don't see the future ... so don't think I can justify correctly how I interpret the past ... hehehehe

Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 02 2009 at 23:19

moshkito wrote:

But I don't see the future ... so don't think I can justify correctly how I interpret the past ... hehehehe

Nice little article! Just one little correction: The movie with which surrealism came into life is "Un chien andalou", a co-production of Luis Buñuel and Salvador Dali. It appeared a year before "L' age d' or" and contains the famous scene of an eyeball slit by a razorblade, interspersed by a cut to a cloud passing the moon.

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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: July 03 2009 at 05:33

^ Great catch! I saw that once in a retrospective at the MoMA here.

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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 03 2009 at 07:49

And what about "La Coquille et le Clergyman" by Germaine Dulac? This movie was also released in 1928. Does anyone know which month of the year each of these movies had been released?

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 03 2009 at 12:57

Hi,

I always confuse those two films ... LOL ... and definitly Dulac and others ... and probably could go as far back as Melies. For information on those films the Internet Movie Database is your best friend.

There are few composers that went this way of the "weird" and I often think that Stravinsky was probably one of the first psychedelic composers that I can think of. The art scene already showed signs of weird-ness so we didn't have to see Guernica to find Miro with his colors and lines ... in what I always called the Andy Warhol of that time!

Most music did not chance, and I attribute a lot of it to the 50's and theadvent and popularity of vinyl ... if vinyl (or otherwise) do not blow out popular music into the ears of the world, I really doubt that we would be having this discussion ...

And that is important ... vinyl made popular music "valid" and it was just a matter of days or weeks before it went a little further than that ... I suppose that we could even go to Elvis ... who is by far one of the earliest and quite important "individualists" when it comes to expression in the music he was doing ... and his fame is really a validation of that ability and even the folks around him giving him a chance to do something different that was not the norm at the time. Si, in that sense, at that time Elvis was progressive, though today we would not consider him such.

Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: July 03 2009 at 18:18

And do not forget to others bands like La Dusserdolf and NEu!

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Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: July 04 2009 at 03:54

Alberto Muñoz wrote:

And do not forget to others bands like La Dusserdolf and NEu!

Harmonia,Liliental,Tangerine Dream or Sergius von Golowin too

-------------
I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world

of searchers with the help from

crimson king

Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: July 04 2009 at 07:07

moshkito wrote:

There are few composers that went this way of the "weird" and I often think that Stravinsky was probably one of the first psychedelic composers that I can think of.

No, Stravinsky was proto-Zeuhl. With a little R.I.O. taste.

Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 04 2009 at 08:51

Guru Kanguru

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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 04 2009 at 09:00

CPicard wrote:

moshkito wrote:

There are few composers that went this way of the "weird" and I often think that Stravinsky was probably one of the first psychedelic composers that I can think of.

No, Stravinsky was proto-Zeuhl. With a little R.I.O. taste.

check out :

Alexander Nikolayevich Scriabin ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language - Russian : Алекса́ндр Никола́евич Скря́бин, Russian pronunciation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Russian - [ɐlʲɪˈksandr nʲɪkəˈlaɪvʲɪtɕ ˈskrʲæbʲɪn] , Aleksandr Nikolajevič Skr'abin; sometimes transliterated as Skriabin, Skryabin, or Scriabine) (6 January 1872 [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Style_and_New_Style_dates - O.S. 25 December 1871]–27 April 1915) was a Russian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composer - composer and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pianist - pianist who initially developed a highly lyrical and idiosyncratic tonal language inspired by the music of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopin - Chopin . Unlike the later http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Roslavets - Roslavets and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schoenberg - Schönberg , Scriabin developed, via mysticism, an increasingly atonal musical language that presaged 12-tone composition and other serial music. He may be considered to be the primary figure of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Symbolism - Russian Symbolism in music as well as the progenitor of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serialism - Serialism .

pretty wird too.

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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: July 04 2009 at 12:27

tamijo wrote:

CPicard wrote:

moshkito wrote:

There are few composers that went this way of the "weird" and I often think that Stravinsky was probably one of the first psychedelic composers that I can think of.

No, Stravinsky was proto-Zeuhl. With a little R.I.O. taste.

check out :

Alexander Nikolayevich Scriabin ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language - Алекса́ндр Никола́евич Скря́бин, Russian pronunciation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IPA_for_Russian - [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Style_and_New_Style_dates - 25 December 1871]–27 April 1915) was a Russian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composer - - pianist who initially developed a highly lyrical and idiosyncratic tonal language inspired by the music of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopin - - Roslavets and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schoenberg - - Russian Symbolism in music as well as the progenitor of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serialism -

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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 05 2009 at 15:18

American Khatru wrote:

tamijo wrote:

CPicard wrote:

moshkito wrote:

There are few composers that went this way of the "weird" and I often think that Stravinsky was probably one of the first psychedelic composers that I can think of.

No, Stravinsky was proto-Zeuhl. With a little R.I.O. taste.

check out :

pretty wird too.

Yes. Here's a one-stop-shopping suggestion for piano works. I haven't dug real deep so there may be better realizations but, again, this is one 2-cd set that'll keep you very busy for a long time!

I would recommand Sonate no. 6 as regard to piano works

Symp. no 5, if you prefer a wider range of instruments.

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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 06 2009 at 03:44

moshkito wrote:

Very few, and I mean extremely few art scenes come out of the blue ... out of one person ... or out of nowhere. The two most visible of these are the neo-raphaelites and theh 30 years later, the surrealists that sprung into the world with a film (Luis Bunuel) that obliterated the imagination (L'Age D'Or) ... and busted wide open the experimentation context of many other arts in Europe ... not as much in America and I think the media had a lot to do with it ... I can't help thinking that Orson Wells and his ______ with the Hearsts were not important or not happening with others ... and he used radio to bust it wide open, something that most artists are not activists enough and believe in themselves enough to do! (Citizen Kane is the movie btw and War of the Worlds was the radio thing) ....

But I don't see the future ... so don't think I can justify correctly how I interpret the past ... hehehehe

Yeah, but not let's not forget that movements like Krautrock (to keep this thread on track) and the 1960s/1970s counterculture in general not to mention the Beat Generation that started it all were extensions of started out as underground movements... you know, the people who got it going already had tastes well outside the mainstream.

It did eventually end up influencing the rest of western culture, though, partly because the people doing it really wanted to change the world but also because the general population was becoming increasingly disillusioned with the current state of affairs. It's similar thing with punk's similar influence on culture in general, though that's mostly shaped the more sub-cultural side of things - it really broke through in the mid-late 1970s which again was a time of great disillusionment.

Another post mentioned something about today's prog scene being too insular and conservative too, maybe the increasing insularity of subcultures is limiting their potential to become more than just exclusive "safe havens" for the disaffected? As useful as those kind of enclaves are, the self-styled isolation might also make it hard for them to become the kind of culturally determining forces that you got in the 1960s/early 1970s beyond their style being adopted by fashion.

Of course, this attitude is partly because a lot of the popularity of subcultural art and philosophy in the past can easily be argued to have been a case of pearls before swine, though it should perhaps be mentioned here that subcultures are rarely uniform movements to begin with as they are generalized categories of many different people with similar interests and motivations... in fact, due to my young age I'm making a big bunch of generalizations here with a lot of it based on second hand information, most of my first-hand experience with subcultural politics being from the metal scene. Can some of the older posters here corroborate?

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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook

Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: July 06 2009 at 08:55

Toaster Mantis wrote:

Yeah, but not let's not forget that movements like Krautrock (to keep this thread on track) and the 1960s/1970s counterculture in general not to mention the Beat Generation that started it all were extensions of started out as underground movements... you know, the people who got it going already had tastes well outside the mainstream.

It did eventually end up influencing the rest of western culture, though, partly because the people doing it really wanted to change the world but also because the general population was becoming increasingly disillusioned with the current state of affairs. It's similar thing with punk's similar influence on culture in general, though that's mostly shaped the more sub-cultural side of things - it really broke through in the mid-late 1970s which again was a time of great disillusionment.

Another post mentioned something about today's prog scene being too insular and conservative too, maybe the increasing insularity of subcultures is limiting their potential to become more than just exclusive "safe havens" for the disaffected? As useful as those kind of enclaves are, the self-styled isolation might also make it hard for them to become the kind of culturally determining forces that you got in the 1960s/early 1970s beyond their style being adopted by fashion.

Of course, this attitude is partly because a lot of the popularity of subcultural art and philosophy in the past can easily be argued to have been a case of pearls before swine, though it should perhaps be mentioned here that subcultures are rarely uniform movements to begin with as they are generalized categories of many different people with similar interests and motivations... in fact, due to my young age I'm making a big bunch of generalizations here with a lot of it based on second hand information, most of my first-hand experience with subcultural politics being from the metal scene. Can some of the older posters here corroborate?

Im sorry if i did get a bit of track

Regarding the "older" helping out, my problem is, even though i'we read the tread, im not sure what you are aguing about.

But if i may say to, nothing comes of nothing, every new generation is in opposition to what came before,

but at the same time they are building on top of that same culture.

Prog is the perfect example of this, taking elements from Rock (at the time the New culture in opposition to the establishment) and mixing it with Classic & Jazz (at the time establishment culture)

But by mixing these elements manage to become in opposition to the developing "Mainstream" of Rock,

allready becomming overly commercial and loosing the edge.

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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours

Posted By: listen
Date Posted: July 06 2009 at 10:03

crimson87 wrote:

By the way: BRAINTICKET

Oh yes!

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Now is all there is. Be before you think!

Posted By: fusionfreak
Date Posted: July 06 2009 at 11:09

Yatah Sidrah too!

-------------
I was born in the land of Mahavishnu,not so far from Kobaia.I'm looking for the world

of searchers with the help from

crimson king

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 06 2009 at 15:21

Toaster Mantis wrote:

Another post mentioned something about today's prog scene being too insular and conservative too, maybe the increasing insularity of subcultures is limiting their potential to become more than just exclusive "safe havens" for the disaffected? As useful as those kind of enclaves are, the self-styled isolation might also make it hard for them to become the kind of culturally determining forces that you got in the 1960s/early 1970s beyond their style being adopted by fashion.

If my travels throughout and ideas/opinions in music are an indication I actually think that the internet is breaking down that insularity ... if you mean separation. All in all I can put it on youtube and you can see it in pretty much the whole world. That is ... the core of so many changes today ... one would think are based on what influences and things one see, but in places like America this insularity is so bad ... sometimes ... that some folks would not know what the word prog is or ever heard of it ... all they know is country music. That's not to say that the people in Pendleton, OR were not nice, or stupid ... they knew other things, but certainly not music or the arts ... and I tend to think that American radio and TV is the worst when it comes to the "arts" ... which doesn't help either.

There is a point to be made if it were an artistic community and it had to find its identity ... in which case when you are defining yourself in the arts it is advisable to maintain a sense of separation until such a time as you are no longer influenced by the outside world and can produce your own work at will ...

Of course, this attitude is partly because a lot of the popularity of subcultural art and philosophy in the past can easily be argued to have been a case of pearls before swine, though it should perhaps be mentioned here that subcultures are rarely uniform movements to begin with as they are generalized categories of many different people with similar interests and motivations... in fact, due to my young age I'm making a big bunch of generalizations here with a lot of it based on second hand information, most of my first-hand experience with subcultural politics being from the metal scene. Can some of the older posters here corroborate?

I don't use the same wording as you ... the collegiate wording, if you will (cultural-subcultural) as they tend to minimize the importance of any events ... and some art details ... heck ... Picasso would have been subcultural all his life ... were it not for Guernica ... when all of a sudden he basically flicked everyone off and made his point so well ... and now they call it his blue, pink and green and yellow and azure and red periods (you get the meaning and idea ... hehe) ... in general, the terminology is fine for making some points but on something that is not academically defined the chances of the terms making it are tough ...

Check out the other similar post I made on the advent of the Cold War ... and it is another example of this.

The funny thing for me, being in America since the 60's is how people here love to ignore their history and treat it as meaningless ... and this is an educational fault more than anything else ... and American Idol is more important than John Adams!

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 06 2009 at 15:42

tamijo wrote:

Regarding the "older" helping out, my problem is, even though i'we read the tread, im not sure what you are aguing about.

But if i may say to, nothing comes of nothing, every new generation is in opposition to what came before,

but at the same time they are building on top of that same culture.

Prog is the perfect example of this, taking elements from Rock (at the time the New culture in opposition to the establishment) and mixing it with Classic & Jazz (at the time establishment culture)

But by mixing these elements manage to become in opposition to the developing "Mainstream" of Rock,

allready becomming overly commercial and loosing the edge.

The argument is how different things influence different things, not only in music but other arts ... subcultures is another word for subgenres or what I like to say as a different version of the same song!

Not sure that "nothing comes to nothing" applies here ... in general almost all art movements are reactionary in concept, not necessarily form ... at least history tries to show us that is the case!!! Haha! I would rather say, and think that for the most part what we reject of the past is not the music itself, but the attitudes and we should be clear on that ... I was not against my parents or my generation ... if I had a complaint was that I felt my generation was under-educated and what's more ... they were interested in movies and tv, and not the rest of the world ... and make up and an image of themselves ... and in general that is not going to produce arts ... it's going to produce ... well, I don't think they are all idiots ... but they do not know the meaning of the word "art" or "music" or "theater" ... and that is my only concern and discussion ... a lot of the music here that we call "prog" is aligned with the art scenes next to it ... and it is no accident that the music is different ... it is so by "design" almost.

Weather it is called Prog or BS ... doesn't matter ... almost all arts borrow from the one before ... even if not only one instrument, be it a Fender Bass or a Paint Brush or a Pen .... and that is my point all along.

So, what is most obvious is that the majority of the musicians involved in "prog" are a lot more than musicians and they are also quite aware of classical music and its history and if there is one thing they know is when they want to add a break and why ... and that is the reason why this stuff is different. It is a progression in that it is trying to expand musical theories and concepts ... and as such it fits as prog ... if that is the definition that we want to assume ... my issue is that the very definition that we assumed is not even present in half the albums in the top 100! Prog is not about the top 100 and never was ... just treat it as music ... not another hit on radio ... which it is not! and never will be!

Hope this helps ...

Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 06 2009 at 21:37

Today I listened to my first full Krautrock album ( before I had only listened to samples) Can's Tago Mago. I am seriously thinking about re-listening to it right now, I loved it. The only thing that I was slightly annoyed by was that the vocals are a bit jarring at first hearing them, they remind me of what little I have heard from Einstürzende Neubauten.

Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 08 2009 at 07:15

If you like the Tago Mago you should also check out Dragontears. They are Danish not German but they are very obviously inspired by the Damo Suzuki era of Can, having the same psychedelic droning quality to them though they're much more "space rock"-oriented in atmosphere and imagery.

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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook

Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 08 2009 at 16:12

Although they're not really rock, right now (because I'm going through their 70's discography, normally I would say Can) I'm thinking that Tangerine Dream made the best Kraut there is during their OHR years.

Zeit has a 3.42 rating here and Alpha Centauri 3.43, because some raters and reviewer give a one star to any music they don't understand. That way progressive masterpieces end up as good, but not essential, while some irrelevant Rush album from 2002 is suddenly an Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection.

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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me

Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: July 08 2009 at 16:56

Also the first Ash Ra Tempel album

Amboss a fiery music sound of expresion!

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Posted By: Captain Capricorn
Date Posted: July 08 2009 at 17:08

tamijo wrote:

American Khatru wrote:

tamijo wrote:

CPicard wrote:

moshkito wrote:

There are few composers that went this way of the "weird" and I often think that Stravinsky was probably one of the first psychedelic composers that I can think of.

No, Stravinsky was proto-Zeuhl. With a little R.I.O. taste.

check out :

I would recommand Sonate no. 6 as regard to piano works

Symp. no 5, if you prefer a wider range of instruments.

My favorites are from Scriabin are The Poem of Ecstasy & Mysterium Approve

Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 13:47

Rocktopus wrote:

Zeit has a 3.42 rating here and Alpha Centauri 3.43, because some raters and reviewer give a one star to any music they don't understand. That way progressive masterpieces end up as good, but not essential, while some irrelevant Rush album from 2002 is suddenly an Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection.

I don't think that many here pay more attention to average ratings than the particular reviewers they trust the most, though.

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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 15:29

Toaster Mantis wrote:

I don't think that many here pay more attention to average ratings than the particular reviewers they trust the most, though.

Please ignore those ratings ... those two albums of Tangerine Dream's have absolutely nothing to do with rock music ... at all! Or Progressive music whatsoever!

Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 10 2009 at 15:30

One should hope people do that. Clap

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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook

Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 12 2009 at 20:25

I am listening to Neu! on Last.fm, and so far it has been great. I find it weird that this thread and in others bands like Can, Caravan, and Gong have been talked about/ mentioned more than usual as I have been exploring Canterbury Scene and Krautrock.

Posted By: listen
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 03:06

My Top 5 Krautrock albums (of 300+ I've listened to):

Agitation Free - Malesch

Brainticket - Psychonaut

Popol Vuh - Hosianna Mantra

Dom - Edge of Time

Prosper - Broken Door

then maybe:

Brainticket - Celestial Ocean

Ash Ra Tempel - Join Inn

Can - Future Days

Agitation Free - Second

Popol Vuh - Einsjager & Siebenjager

So many other great albums I could have listed, too, and many of my favorite songs are on other krautrock albums Thumbs Up

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Now is all there is. Be before you think!

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 15:03

listen wrote:

My Top 5 Krautrock albums (of 300+ I've listened to):

Agitation Free - Malesch

Brainticket - Psychonaut

Popol Vuh - Hosianna Mantra

Dom - Edge of Time

Prosper - Broken Door

then maybe:

Brainticket - Celestial Ocean

Ash Ra Tempel - Join Inn

Can - Future Days

Agitation Free - Second

Popol Vuh - Einsjager & Siebenjager

So many other great albums I could have listed, too, and many of my favorite songs are on other krautrock albums Thumbs Up

Based on the time frame and school of music I would listen to Nektar ... their early stuff is very good, and although "Sounds Like This" is not usually a selection that is mentioned as "prog" but it does show very clearly how popular music injected/impressed Nektar and how they ended up creating their own ... and I happen to like their long cuts in there as well.

Can ... better heard in sequence as it shows the band and its progress and changes ... start with Tago Mago, then Ege Bamyasi, then Future Days and then Soon Over Babbalooma ... as much as I love those 4 albums, the next one is even more important ... as it shows how the band really went far out and experimental back to the early days with really far out and way off left field stuff that has more in common with Tago Mago (not the music/ears - but the experimentation) than otherwise ... but it is an album that few people can relate to ... it is weird, and funny and off the wall ... and so progressive that folks here can't handle it! It's kinda like heaing Gentle Giant the first time ... you go ... what is this?

Brainticket ... Cottonwood Hill was their first and it still is the weirdest and most fun to listen to ... I loved Celestial Ocean and still have the poster on my wall!

Ashra Tempel ... Join Inn is a really fine listen if you have the patience and care to close your eyes and just enjoy something in the dark. Janseits is really nice. Join Inn is better and the girl's seductive voice, considering I do not knwo what she is saying ... is a really soothing and relaxing meditation ... if you are expecting some prog bullpucky rock ... do not get this one ... this is two long cuts and a tripper's delight ... and most prog'rs (specially in this board) are not trippers at all!!!!!!!!

Popol Vuh is what New Age should have been but were afraid to be as far as I am concerned. Way more spiritual than the crystal bs that ended up in America as a commercial venture. Appreciate it for its beauty and definitly catch the Werner Herzog films with this music .... specially Aguirre and Heart of Glass and Nosferatu. Herzog does know how to use the music and some of the subtle accoustic stuff on the album is in Aguirre and really effective and makes it seem scary and different ... really well done -- and the music is ... better! But the film is really good.

The others I do not feel qualified in discussing as I have not given them a fair listen. Except Agitation Free, but I prefer not to discuss that one at all ... at this time -- until I double check some more information on it. To me this is not Krautrock ... this is a serious attempt at mixing rock with eastern music via electronic instruments ... and as such fits better in the experimental areas than it does "krautrock" ... this is not a "rock band' per se ... as they were testing out other musical factors as well. No one can miss the eastern influences and obvious examples and how it was used in these albums -- with electronic instruments mixing in with traditional instruments. Much of the expanding of a note or wave with the synthesizer has a lot more to do with eastern concepts of meditation and "raga" than it does any western musical concept at all, and this we're not all willing to discuss or compare notes on. It is a very difficult topic to discuss. Agitation Free was not the only band that did this and they had an off shoot if I remember correctly ... Dissidenten. Which continued the eastern influence and style and also had electronics.

I would still get Guru Guru's first 4 albums (listen to them in that order) all the way to Tango Fango and even Dance of the Flames ... and it is really important that you realize how political "Das Liebe von Radio" (spelling) is specially in that time when Berlin was still split and East Germany was forbidden a lot of the western music ... I really think that these first 4 albums by GuruGuru are massive and a must in anybody's "kruatrock" collection ... in my mind they are much more kruatrock than we give them credit for ... I tend to not consider Popol Vuh, Ash Ra Tempel krautrock at all ... and Brainticket is of Swiss origin I think, and it fits more into the experimental area than it does in krautrock ... at least it's a much better description of their work.

I do hope that you have Amonduuled yourself ... krautrock is not complete if you do not have Yeti, Dance of the Lemmings, Carnival in Babylon and Wolf City ... and if you can handle it Vive La Trance ... as the song "Apocalyptic Bore" is the end of the "definition" of krautrock ... it says it all ... (and after you play this song you gotta get yourself a copy of the title song of Scorpions "Fly To The Rainbow" album ... they wrote the song pro=fun and drugs, right after AD2 had said goodbye to all that stuff...)

When you hear and realize that Ege Bamyasi, Wold City, A Tab in the Ocean, Atem pretty much came out at the same time ... (2 of these the same week!) ... you can imagine how some of us felt then ... we died and went to heaven!

Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 15:56

moshkito wrote:

Toaster Mantis wrote:

I don't think that many here pay more attention to average ratings than the particular reviewers they trust the most, though.

Please ignore those ratings ... those two albums of Tangerine Dream's have absolutely nothing to do with rock music ... at all! Or Progressive music whatsoever!

Alpha Centauri hasn't got anything to do with rock or progressive music? I disagree (and I think Zeit is progressive music). I don't care that much about the ratings, but I think its a flaw of the site that a "specialist" of any genres opinion (=rating) is weighted many times higher, also in the genres they're clueless about.

-------------
Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me

Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 16:24

I'm a huge Krautrock fan but one band that i can't get into is Faust.I know they're often one of the first bands brought up in such a discussion and highly rated but they're beyond me.

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN

Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 16:27

sinkadotentree wrote:

I'm a huge Krautrock fan but one band that i can't get into is Faust.I know they're often one of the first bands brought up in such a discussion and highly rated but they're beyond me.

Their debut is still one of the weirdest stuff I've ever heard. Big smile

...and I love it!

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Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 16:46

Try Faust So Far - it's available on emusic. It's a nice balance of the sheer out there weirdness of the debut with some more accessible material.

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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute
to the already rich among us...'

Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom

Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 16:49

Here's my latest addition to the database:

../album.asp?id=24209">

not rated
../album.asp?id=24209 - Let It Out
1971

I stumbled upon this album some time ago and it's great. Really, recommended! Thumbs Up

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"Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent."

Charles Bukowski

Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: July 13 2009 at 17:06

Ricochet wrote:

Their debut is still one of the weirdest stuff I've ever heard. Big smile

...and I love it!

Their debut is somewhat disturbing. I love it too!

They are definitely more in RIO terretory than other Kraut groups though. They even toured with Henry Cow back in the day although some years before the RIO name was coined.

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RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on!

Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: July 14 2009 at 23:12

Well, definitely, this a VERY good genre!

My favourite bands un this subgenre are Faust (particularly Faust IV), Brainticket (Psychonaut) and Amon Duul II (Phallus Dei & Yeti)

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Les mains, les pieds balancés
Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers,
Un marin mort,
Il dormira

- Paul Éluard

Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: July 15 2009 at 04:15

Tuzvihar wrote:

Here's my latest addition to the database:

../album.asp?id=24209">

5.00 | 1 ratings | 100% 5 stars

I stumbled upon this album some time ago and it's great. Really, recommended! Thumbs Up

Awsome! Now its rated too.

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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me

Posted By: Toaster Mantis
Date Posted: July 15 2009 at 04:26

Tuzvihar wrote:

Here's my latest addition to the database:

../album.asp?id=24209">

not rated
../album.asp?id=24209 - Let It Out
1971

I stumbled upon this album some time ago and it's great. Really, recommended! Thumbs Up

Pretty cool cover art, like Art Deco futurism a la Metropolis on a serious acid trip. LOL

Posted By: listen
Date Posted: July 18 2009 at 13:04

ProGR72 wrote:

Brainticket (Psychonaut)

Hell yeah!

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Now is all there is. Be before you think!

Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 19 2009 at 04:54

I like lots of Krautrock but I've never been able to get into Brainticket. Is it just me?

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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."

Posted By: listen
Date Posted: July 20 2009 at 09:45

A B Negative wrote:

I like lots of Krautrock but I've never been able to get into Brainticket. Is it just me?

what albums have you heard?

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Now is all there is. Be before you think!

Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 20 2009 at 10:24

listen wrote:

A B Negative wrote:

I like lots of Krautrock but I've never been able to get into Brainticket. Is it just me?

what albums have you heard?

Cottonwoodhill and Psychonaut

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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."

Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: July 20 2009 at 11:38

Must be just you. I love both, especially "Cottonwoodhill".

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BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.

Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 20 2009 at 11:52

I'm OK with that, there's plenty more for me to enjoy!

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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 20 2009 at 13:17

A B Negative wrote:

... snip ...

Cottonwoodhill and Psychonaut

This band is more of an acquired taste than anything else.

You have to appreciate the time it came out and the experimental nature of the music ... which today would be almost impossible to do, given the quantity of stuff out there that is pre-fabricated and has no individuality whatsoever, other than one more drummer keeping time!!!! (... waste of a musician on top of it! ... )

At the time, the experimental music scene really took off and helped synthesizers and a lot of other music come to the forefront of popular music.

The good side ... we heard a lot of new things ... the bad side? There was a lot of garbage, just like today, and as soon as one sold, ten thousand showed up! No different than today!

But Cottonwood Hill is nutz and fun at the same time. But it is not good or enjoyable if you are a metal thrasher fan and can not understand anything else but that kind of music. And then Celestial Ocean, which is also a very nice album, although it now sounds aged and a feels a bit too much like a "kid" just learning. Psychonaut is more music related and less experimenting, and as such is more listen'able but not exactly better. I prefer the other two, myself, but then I like crazy, weird and off the main stream stuff ...

Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 21 2009 at 02:10

moshkito wrote:

But it is not good or enjoyable if you are a metal thrasher fan and can not understand anything else but that kind of music.

I like to think my taste in music is pretty wide (AMM to ZZ Top)...

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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."

Posted By: Lodij van der Graaf
Date Posted: July 21 2009 at 02:56

I need something to get my attention to this subgenre really. I've listened some acts like Faust, Amon Duul and Can*, but they didn't make a good enough impression to attract me.

*) Faust IV, Yeti, Ege Bamyasi

Posted By: DamoXt7942
Date Posted: July 21 2009 at 04:57

Please remember and listen to a Japanese Krautrocker http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4653 - BRAST BURN . Cool

Thanks!

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http://www.facebook.com/damoxt7942" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: A B Negative
Date Posted: July 21 2009 at 12:23

DamoXt7942 wrote:

Please remember and listen to a Japanese Krautrocker http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4653 - BRAST BURN . Cool

Thanks!

Their album Debon is pretty good, sounds like a less frantic Amon Duul.

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"The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar.... Now, that's my idea of a good time."

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 08:11

Originally posted by Lodij van der Graaf

Lodij van der Graaf wrote:

I need something to get my attention to this subgenre really. I've listened some acts like Faust, Amon Duul and Can*, but they didn't make a good enough impression to attract me.

*) Faust IV, Yeti, Ege Bamyasi

I think that you are getting these mixed up a bit ...

If you want out in the open "weird'ness" and experimentation, then Faust is it ... a good primer. You could do that drunk on a studio with some friends, except that you and I would sit here and think that it is stupid to try and do it. There is, for all intents and purposes, no musical value in most of it, and the collages and creativity shows something of what was left of the artistic theater and film scene in that time ... Peter Handke and Wim Wenders kinda started that school of craziness and in a way they did not let go. Wim Wenders mellowed out in his films but his weird edge (experimental edge) never really left.

AD2 and Yeti, along with Dance of the Lemmings, is rock at its best within an improvisation context. Only GuruGuru does better in a rock context, that is more free form and not a "guided" meditation or jam. It is really well focused and total improvisation by almost all the musicians and yet they are together. In many ways this is the part of the 60's theater and film scene that never was developed. I think that people could jam on a theme, but never really take off and try different things. Yeti is by far one of the best examples of that ... and concludes with a song that suggests that Sandoz had some to do with it, although I kinda doubt it ... I'm not sure you can get that many musicians so well focused and support each other and create such a monster piece of focused music. Not even in jazz, can you finx this, other than possibly Egberto Gismonti in his early days, but he is alone for the most part! This is pure rock, at its most primeval and potent.

Can and Ege Bamyasi. I think that this album is more about Damo's vocal talents than it is about Can and its music. And it appears they did a couple of different things, from funk, to a ballad to some jive ... done by Germans, not Black musicians! In that sense it was experimental, but it was a trend that had started with Tago Mago, and ended with Future Days ... which had the last of its funk'y material. The rest of Future Days was more keyboard and trip oriented and the sad thing about doing that would be that the ability to have Damo involved was probably more difficult as he did not do the little things that Shakti Yoni (Gilly Smith) did with Gong, for example, or Flora Purim was doing in some Brazilian stuff, that might have extended his stay with Can. Like he did not know or had heard what some girls had done with Ash Ra Tempel adding a touch of sex'iness to it, or in the case of Gong, adding femininity that is solid and not imaginary ... as in woman ... not fantasy! I really think that Damo could not re-invent himself, and it is clear in the material he is doing these days with his own friends and band. It's a time warp!

Musically, Can continued for 2 more albums with less and less participation for Damo, and while no one talks about Soon Over Babalooma and then Landed, they are both fabulous albums and show a band maturing like so few can. I have a feeling that by the time that the second side of Soon Over Babalooma was being done that Damo had left and Irmin Schmidt and the rest of the band took it into an electronic time trip, a beautiful transition of plain rock into space rock and electronix that are really pretty and smooth beautifull textured by the drummer. For Can this was interesting, as the song that made them famous was the hard rocking "Mother Sky" ... and it was at that time, when funk was hitting mainstream music big time in the FM radio waves.

So if you are looking for a bit of experimentation and not "music" per se, Faust is good. If you are looking for rock progressions, I would say AD2 is excellent. If you are looking for a band's transition, take Can all the way from "Movies to Landed" ... and enjoy an incredible set of musicians and time and place!

But to thrown them back to back to back like that ... without having any idea what this was all about and the time itself ... I would think it is going to confuse you a lot and I'm not sure that you can gain much appreciation from that after the listens.

I want you to appreciate artistic work at its best. And in tune with the other arts around them and then some, which is something this board and the majority of people are not working on enough ... a lot of these arts and music were not ... just "prog" in any musical sense ... they were a part of the feelings of the time and people wanting to expand and do something else, and that included film, theater and many other arts ... it's not about one "style of music" (there were hundreds of "styles"), or any single music definition or element ... they, almost all, did have something in common ... longer cuts and a desire to learn from the experience of taking a piece of music further than is normally done ... and that, my friends, is the definition of prog. Not anything else.

Posted By: Lodij van der Graaf
Date Posted: July 22 2009 at 11:53

moshkito wrote:

I think that you are getting these mixed up a bit ...

That was quite a fascinating writing, moshkito!

Well, maybe I'll try 'em all... Mean, I'll Faust, I'll rock with Amon Duul II, and check out my Can collection again (I've coupla their releases)... Thanks for those explanation, moshkito! I'll take it as one of my resource Smile

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Grace is a name,
like Chastity,
like Lucifer,
like mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: listen
Date Posted: July 23 2009 at 02:17

The main album that got me seriously into this genre was Agitation Free's "Malesch".

It depends a lot on taste as to what might get your interest and attention, as "Krautrock" encapsulates a variety of creative styles. I mentioned a few more of my favorites earlier, though there's a load of great material that came out of that scene!

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Now is all there is. Be before you think!

Posted By: listen
Date Posted: July 23 2009 at 02:17

DamoXt7942 wrote:

Please remember and listen to a Japanese Krautrocker http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=4653 - BRAST BURN . Cool

Thanks!

I've been looking for this album!

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Now is all there is. Be before you think!

Posted By: listen
Date Posted: July 23 2009 at 02:22

A B Negative wrote:

listen wrote:

A B Negative wrote:

I like lots of Krautrock but I've never been able to get into Brainticket. Is it just me?

what albums have you heard?

Cottonwoodhill and Psychonaut

Celestial Ocean is more listenable for some. Its more electronic and ethnic with much less rock. My favorite is Psychonaut. There are songs or instrumental passages I could point out, but I imagine its mostly just a matter of taste.

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Now is all there is. Be before you think!

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 23 2009 at 08:24

A B Negative wrote:

moshkito wrote:

But it is not good or enjoyable if you are a metal thrasher fan and can not understand anything else but that kind of music.

I like to think my taste in music is pretty wide (AMM to ZZ Top)...

The comment was generic and not personal ... it's as if ...

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: July 23 2009 at 08:36

listen wrote:

The main album that got me seriously into this genre was Agitation Free's "Malesch".

Agitation Free, is more of a "concept" than it is about its music. It's very German in that respect.

It was about the influence of eastern music and trying to play eastern music with rock instruments. As such, it has a heck of a lot less to do with "krautrock" than it does with the hybrid mix of eastern and western music.

I really think that if you are going to listen to this because "it is krautrock", you are going to miss the point and enjoyment of this music ... it's not krautrock in the essence of what AshRa Tempel had done in early days which was totally open free form, or Guru Guru had also done, and Klaus Schulze was doing with electronics as was Tangerine Dream ... in essence, the only way this group could stand out, even though they are connected to all those bands above (played the same clubs and apparently Chris Franke's family was one of the producers/sponsors in that club ... !!! ) would have been to do their own thing and mix their eastern/Egyptian/Greek music to their concept.

Funny ... it was also an academic endeavor ... the information on Wikipaedia even says they were paid by the Goethe Institute, which tells you that this was a scholarly adventure of some sort ... I don't think they would have gotten a grant if they had said they wanted to do "rock'n'roll" or "krautrock" ...

Posted By: Lodij van der Graaf
Date Posted: July 23 2009 at 22:34

Malesh by Agitation Free check, Guru Guru's Kanguru also...

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Grace is a name,
like Chastity,
like Lucifer,
like mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 26 2009 at 22:43

A B Negative wrote:

listen wrote:

A B Negative wrote:

I like lots of Krautrock but I've never been able to get into Brainticket. Is it just me?

what albums have you heard?

Cottonwoodhill and Psychonaut

This reminds me of the story my brother in law told me. When he was in highschool they skipped off and did some acid and drove around listening to "Cottonwoodhill" anyway one of his friends was so freaked out he made them stop the car out in the middle of nowhere and he got out.

He was fine by the way.This band was from Switzerland by the way.I guess there's a few Swiss bands under Krautrock right?

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN

Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: July 26 2009 at 22:49

KOLLEKTIV's debut is pretty amazing.

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"The wind is slowly tearing her apart"

"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN

Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: July 30 2009 at 21:44

Ashra/ Ash Ra Tempel are great, I haven't got any albums but I haven't been listening to some material on the internet and have to say it is some of the most easily appreciated music I have found. Krautrock is quickly becoming one of my favorite genres. Thumbs Up

I would ask for recommendations, but I think I'll just work through all the bands that are in top 20 and go from there, but all suggestions are welcome.

Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 22:52

I have found a great krautrock station on Last.fm. I went to my radio and made a multiple tag station with Krautrock, psychedelic rock, and space rock. I have been trying not to love every track it plays, started with Ash Ra Tempel and Guru Guru, but even the more obscure bands it plays are interesting.

Posted By: keiser willhelm
Date Posted: August 22 2009 at 19:24

Kanguru is farking awesome. that is all

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http://www.last.fm/user/KeiserWillhelm" rel="nofollow - What im listening to

Posted By: shivayin
Date Posted: October 25 2009 at 16:08

Hi ALL the cool dudes in the cosmos, my name is Alistair IW Campbell.

I watched the weekend documentary on BBC4 'Krautrock - The Rebirth of Germany' and I had an epiphany.

I have been listening to and collecting German Rock since I first heard it via 'The Faust Tapes' at the beginning of the Seventies.

I am an Artist but I have no money as my work just doesn't sell.

I have managed over the many years to trade/swop/sometimes afford all the awesome German music which I now have, but a few have elluded me.

I have been very ill with drug & alcohol addiction, pneumonia 3 times, and 2 nervous breakdowns.

But through all this I have continued to create my own Artistic Vision.

I was also the Artist who did the cover for the first colour cover re-issue of Vernon Joynson's 'Flashback'. I also did the cover for his first 2 prints of 'Fuzz, Acid & Flowers'.

I have met Hugh MacLean of 'Borderline' who happen to live 5 minutes walk away from my Mum's house in Glasgow, as I too am a Glaswegian although my wife & I live & brought up our family in Devon.

My daughter is studying drums & violin at Goldsmith's in London & she is in two bands at the moment - 'The Wild Wolves' & 'Buffalo'. The latter is VERY German prog in flavour although I'm not sure if she is consciously aware of this.

My son was in a band 'Lizardsun' since he was 8. They cut a cd when they were 13 with the pianist who sometimes accompanies LZ who at the time lived in Salcombe Devon.

He was the lead guitarist & I gave him my guitar which is a Gibson SG exact copy of the 'Bat' SG that the late Great John Cipollina designed & played. Andy Manson, who we shared a cottage with, made this especially for me. He has made triple -necks for Jimmy Page, various stringed instruments for Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, & John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin. He has also done considerable work for Steve Howe, Julian Cope & Albert Lee among many more.

Seth is now working in digital advertizing in London, but he is also in the same group 'The Wild Wolves' as my daughter. He is also a DJ and composes hip-hop etc. on his computer in any spare time. For this, he uses much of my collected material for sampling, eg: John Cale, Little Feat, King Crimson, Can and he creates 'unique' compositions.

I am still very ill & housebound, but I wonder if you could make an old poor Artist happy by being able to burn/or tape for me the list below of the last handful of German Music I so desperately love but can not afford to buy.

If you go to my website:

- > 'Alistair's Music'

you can pick ANYTHING from that list you would like me to copy for you, and I will be happy to oblige.

If you would be interested in seeing my Art, please take a look at my website which a friend in America set up for me:

- www.alistairiwcampbell.com

Here is the list of what I would still love to hear before I die. If it was easier to do the material as MP3 on one or two DVD's I really don't care what format. I will re-emburse any money you spend, I can send Artwork, tapes, cd's whatever.

MY KRAUTROCK WANTS

AINIGMA - Diluvium 1973

CORNUCOPIA - Full Horn
DA CAPO - Da Capo
DEUTER - D
DROSSELBART - Drosselbart

EL SHALOM - Frost
EMBRYO - Steig Aus
EMBRYO - Father Son & Holy Ghosts
EMBRYO - Rocksession
ERLKONIG - Erlkonig
EULENSPYGEL - Eulenspygel 2
FRAME - Frame of Mind
FRUMPY - All Will Be Changed
FRUMPY - Frumpy 2
Peter FROHMADER - Nekropolis 2
Peter FROHMADER - Eismeer
GOMORRHA - Trauma Englisch/Deutsch (1970)
HALLELUJAH - Hallelujah Babe
HOLDERLIN - Holderlin's Traum
IKARUS - Ikarus (1971)
IVORY - Sad Cypress
LIGHTSHINE - Feeling
MC CHURCH SOUNDROOM - Delusion
MESSAGE - Dawn Anew is Coming

MY SOLID GROUND - SWR Volume 7

MY SOLID GROUND - My Solid Ground '71

MY SOLID GROUND - 2001 Album

OS MUNDI - 43 Minuten

PELL MELL - Only a Star
RUFUS ZUPHALL - Weiss Der Teufel
WIND - Seasons (1971)
SFF KRAUT SCHICKE FÜHRS FRÖHLING - Sunburst

Please could you help, sincerely,

Alistair

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www.alistairiwcampbell.com

Posted By: shivayin
Date Posted: October 25 2009 at 16:17

I had an epiphany watching the BBC4 Documentary this weekend 'Krautrock - The Rebirth of Germany'.

I have been collecting music, in particular: Psychedelic, Krautrock, Classical, Progressive for over 50 years now. I thought I had given up. But there is still a handful of German albums I would dearly love to hear before I go for the long cold rest.

I did the cover for the first edition of 'Fuzz, Acid & Flowers' and also the first colour cover for the re-issue of 'Flashback' both Borderline Productions. I have the original of 'Cosmic Dreams At Play' and most other Borderline Books plus limitless amount of tapes from Vernon.

Please can anyone who wishes get in touch with me?

My Art is on:

http://www.alistairiwcampbell.com - www.alistairiwcampbell.com & music is at http://www.alistairsdream.co.uk - www.alistairsdream.co.uk > Alistairs Music

Email: mailto:[email protected] - [email protected]

Alistair

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www.alistairiwcampbell.com

Posted By: rick gryphon
Date Posted: October 26 2009 at 05:50

hello there what a collection i am from brechin scotland i dont have any on your wants list but how much is it per cd copy from you i might need some done

Posted By: shockedjazz
Date Posted: October 27 2009 at 12:55

Holderling,s "Holderling traum" is impressive, a special and beatifull disc, folky and experimental at the same time, but what can you expect of a band name like that? Something good for sure.

No one has commented on A.R. & Machines "Echo". Its a wild trip!!

Can is awesome, specialy with suzuky. He is singing anything? i mean with linguistical content? Absolutely great (specialy for non english listeneres and ocasional wannabe english singers).

But Yeti is the weirdest thing you can hear! incredible "Archangel thunderbird" and asthounding "Soap shop rock...."

A clap for all the krautrock fans

Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: October 27 2009 at 13:04

Lucifer's Friend LP's had an innersleeve style jacket which advertised bands like Guru,Guru and that is what brought my attention to bands of this style. I don't know if Lucifer's Friend would be considered Krautrock. German classical musicians with an English singer. Some songs would sound like your average rock song but develop into Crimson madness. Pink Mice "In Action" was instrumental. Members of Lucifer's Friend on this one minus Lawton.

Guru,Guru....Mani and some friends is a krautrock treasure for me.

Posted By: shivayin
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 15:04

Everything by Ash Ra Tempel, in my book is genius. But if you had to have one album which was the cherry on the cake, it has got to be '7 Up' recorded live in Berne 1972 with Dr. Leary.

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www.alistairiwcampbell.com

Posted By: shivayin
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 15:06

Get in touch with me, a Krautrock fan for 40 years. I will try to help out,

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www.alistairiwcampbell.com

Posted By: shivayin
Date Posted: October 29 2009 at 15:10

Well, if yo're Scottish, we are united forver, I was born and raised in Glasgow as was my wife.

Email me at:

mailto:[email protected] - [email protected]

My website is:

http://www.alistairiwcampbell.com - www.alistairiwcampbell.com if you want to see Celtic/Krautrock/Psychedelic etc. Art.

If you want to know what musick I have try to visit:

http://www.alistairsdream.co.uk - www.alistairsdream.co.uk > 'Alistairs Music' - 40 years of lovingly collecting which I don't reget a day of.

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www.alistairiwcampbell.com

Posted By: sludgecraft
Date Posted: November 20 2009 at 05:14

I got into Krautrock after watching the documentary on BBC4, I was already a prog fan, mainly Gabriel era Genesis, VDGG, Tool and Tull, but now all i listen to is early 70's and German. Popol Vuh and Agitation free are now two of my fave bands of all time. Tantric songs is a classic. the strange thing with Krautrock is it doesn't seem to have dated much, the first album by Neu! could have been released a year or two ago, and it would still kick ass! Its only after listening to bands like Ash Ra Tempel that you realise how much influence they had on bands like Tool. I guess its a testament to a bunch of very forward thinking artists that 40 years on it still sounds fresh. Not many genres can boast that.

Ich liebe krautrock, das ist jetzt mein Leben. schade Metall, Sie sind für mich nicht klug genug

(my last facebook update) LOL

Posted By: Neurotarkus
Date Posted: November 20 2009 at 14:49

I've been obsessed with krautrock for the past week or two, though it's been mostly Can, ADII, Faust, Kwerk, and Neu!

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"I cannot grasp the concept of love, for I am a pickle!"
-Neurotarkus

I create musics. Good Ones. Contact me if you desire it.

Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: November 20 2009 at 15:12

I've got a few hundred on vinyl. I the late seventies Ihad a deal with a second hand shop:Anything that came in that looked weird: Call me. I bought a guy,s Amon Duul II collection oncealong with a whole pile of weird German sh*t that I still have some of it is mega rare. I also bought a whole pile of sealed Brain LPs from a clearinghouse in 1981. Nobody wnted them so I offered the guy a flat rate for the whole shebang. The doubles I traded off over the years and I still have a few sealed albums.

70s German Kosmishe Musik. Out there man.With the exception of the Hawks Doesn't get any freakier.

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Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: November 23 2009 at 15:26

I turned a friend on to Brainticket recently, and now he can't stop! His brainticket has been punched!!

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Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"?

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 19:10

AINIGMA - Diluvium 1973

CORNUCOPIA - Full Horn
DA CAPO - Da Capo
DEUTER - D
DROSSELBART - Drosselbart

MY SOLID GROUND - SWR Volume 7

MY SOLID GROUND - My Solid Ground '71

MY SOLID GROUND - 2001 Album

OS MUNDI - 43 Minuten

PELL MELL - Only a Star
RUFUS ZUPHALL - Weiss Der Teufel
WIND - Seasons (1971)
SFF KRAUT SCHICKE FÜHRS FRÖHLING - Sunburst

Georg Deuter has quite a few albums and they are simple keyboard excursions, many of them meditations and he dedicates his music to his spiritual leader.

Embryo is/was Peter Michael Hamel's thing. It is nice stuff, although sometimes I felt that ... I don't know ... I get one of those "detached" feelings while listening to Miles Davis, and at times I get a feeling that this is not "krautrock" at all ... it's "krautmusik" ... and I always felt that there was too much "composition" here ... and if you read Peter's book "From Music To The Self" ... (I won't say any more!)

Frumpy I consider a 2nd tier rock band ... nice, and enjoyable, not great ... but good.

Message ... if this is the album/band I am thinking it is a Nektar sounding band ... it's ok, not great.

Pell Mell ... I had one of their albums ... Marburg? I have to look it up ... and then remember listening to a live album of theirs ... and I think that one qualifies as "weird" for me ... maybe if I heard it today it might make some sense, but it didn't then.

SFF. Instrumental stuff with 3 keyboard players ... Really well done stuff, but not exactly "tops" ...

Of all these listed I would say that Deuter is the best of them ... and the most consistent of the creative hands/forces in this group. Very nice albums and they were distinctive and not quite repetitive or sounding the same. I'll reserve judgement until I hear Embryo again ... I do have 2 of their albums.

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 24 2009 at 19:24

shivayin wrote:

Everything by Ash Ra Tempel, in my book is genius. But if you had to have one album which was the cherry on the cake, it has got to be '7 Up' recorded live in Berne 1972 with Dr. Leary.

I like that album a lot ... and the funny thing is that everyone is not hearing it ... or listening to it ... the "secret" is right there ... and the explanation ... of what this music is all about ...

... using german hi-fi ... to get into the sci-fi ... get into the vibe of the music ...

Never ever, has anything been spoken so clearly and so with it ... the only time when Tim was not full of doodoo and just throwing words out to have fun with people and confuse them ... and ... it made so much sense that it was like a brick hitting you in the face ... from that point on I KNEW what music was all about ... not just a lyric, not just a guitar ... not just a drum beat ... (and today ... Klaus Schulze, Manuel Gottsching and Tangerine Dream ... are the only ones still doing it ... almost all the others are simple copies ... )

All of the best albums in this idiom (krautrock) came out in 1972 ... but that is really just one of those things ... I hardly think that there are too many albums that stand up to Ege Bamyasi, Wolf City, Guru Guru and the Popol Vuh ... and we haven't even listed Ash Ra Tempel and Klaus Schulze yet ... Neu ... and so many others.

What is hard to get people to see, specially anyone labeling things "prog" or anything else ... is what these people were into that helped the scene develop ... and if you check the theater, film and other arts ... these were extending the parallels and exercising their experiments ... and many of these people are remembered for the beauty in those experiments ... krautrock is totally free form ... but even Acid Mothers Guru Guru don't have it ... it's more thrash metal compared to the Ax Gernreich version in those days where it was more of a super extended jam ... the way Jimi could have done it ... and never did ... because we kept wanting him to do blues or some other idiotic music style that had nothing to do with how a person felt and experimented.

The German scene was quite involved ... when you consider that CAN never had a "singer" .. they had an actor and then ... another voice actor ... and that's quite an experiment until you get it down ... and they did. But it also tells you that there was a lot less "fear" to experiment than there is in the more convention rock/progressive modes of music that come out of England or America ... here they call it a "jam" ... and usually that means aimless and unfocused ... which Krautrock never lacked ... it had FOCUS and then some.

Posted By: Rivertree
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 08:07

recently added the band ../artist.asp?id=5020 - Beak> featuring Geoff Barrow (Portishead)

this project has produced an album with songs reminiscent of German bands like Neu, Harmonia, Can and Kraftwerk - recommended!
http://beak.bandcamp.com/ - listen here

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Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: November 29 2009 at 08:41

^ true. The neo side of the subgenre delivers some astonishing moments. I notably advise to give a listen on Metabolismus, Silvester Anfang, Electric Orange (for their album fleischwerk) Aethenor and Cloudland Canyon (the two last are added in the progressive electronic category)

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