Warning: stay away from these 5 prog albums!
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Top 10s and lists
Forum Description: List all your favourites here
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60539
Printed Date: July 20 2025 at 02:10
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Warning: stay away from these 5 prog albums!
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Subject: Warning: stay away from these 5 prog albums!
Date Posted: August 17 2009 at 22:59
|
WARNING: stay away from these 5 prog albums!
Yes, I know its a negative thread but I really sincerely want to know which prog albums we should stay well clear of. Nobody wants to fork out $30 and take home a lemon! Perhaps some of you could enlighten us as to prog we really should avoid like the plague. I will start the ball rolling -
I just read a review flaming the following album:
my rating -
 - 4 ouches!We all know we need to stay clear of :
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1444">
  3.12 | 245 ratings http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1444 - Final Cut, The 1983 - 4 ouches!Although some disagree (why I cannot ever know) - As a huge Pink Floyd fan I am ambarrassed to have this in my collection - Its awful from start to finish and no redeeming features whatsoever.
And of course we must include in our hate list:
Dang this is bad - unbelievable for Metallica who are capable of brilliance. - Heck! Even 'Load' is better than this!
- 5 ouchesand then there is:
Whatever Oldfield was attempting here it fails on almost every level. A disappointing effort and one to avoid unless you are a completist.
- 5 ouchesand - da daaah!
http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1876">
  1.98 | 106 ratings http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1876 - Love Beach - 4 ouches!Yes! There it is - the smiling Hawaii Five O lookalikes who assassinated great prog music single handedly on a sell out that infuriated fans and alienated everyone else.
OK flaming over for now.... Add to the list
Of course its subjective so be clear on why you include the albums - htey have to be almost universally hated. And if you are trying to be funny and include masterpieces, we will have to ignore that I suppose, because its bound to happen.
Create your list NOW! Stay away from these 5 prog albums!
Give it an ouch rating if you want to - (only 3 to choose to make it easy)
- 5 ouches - absolutely the pits (not one great song) so avoid this album! - 4 ouches - some value (1 great song only) but overall a waste of time even listening to this! - 3 ouches - some redeeming value (2 great songs perhaps) but otherwise the rest is a mess.------------- 
|
Replies:
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 17 2009 at 23:12
|
I'm just pleased I didn't make the list... And... The Final Cut is amazing. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 04:06
 --- I fully agree about Simon Railton. It rates among the worst kind of "prog making" I've ever heard (but it had to be added). I tend to agree about Final Cut. Not necesarrily an album you should stay the hell away from, nevertheless one of Floyd's lowest ever. I don't agree about Millenium Bell. Always had a soft spot for modern Oldfield, even if MB is definitely nothing more than a(nother) anniversary TB, it still sounds good. Love Beach's status is well-known, but I myself found some pleasant music in it. ------------- 
|
Epignosis wrote:Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 04:10
|
The Final Cut is easily my least favourite Floyd album, and probably in my top 5 most disliked albums of all time.
Don't own any of the others, so I'll take your word for it  ------------- 
|
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 05:15
|
The Final Cut is wonderful. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 05:19
|
I like The Final Cut. And Love Beach I have a soft spot for now as well. In fact...I love side 2 very much now. St Anger isn't a Prog album, but I quite like it too. Too get back on topic...I cant think of any at the moment. Earth Moving by Mike Oldfield is pretty bland....
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: The Sleepwalker
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 05:43
|
The Final Cut is one of the best albums ever made, it really is Roger Waters at his best. A very emotional and beautiful album. I can understand why many people do strongly dislike it though, as it's more of a Waters solo album than a true Pink Floyd album. But in my opinion the album does not have a single uninteresting song at all, maybe Not Now John doesn't really fit in with the other songs, but for example The Hero's Return, The Gunner's Dream and the title track are among the best songs the band has ever writen. I don't own or even know the music of the other albums on this list, but a 1.98 average rating for Love Beach isn't very promising.
By the way, if you look at the ratings of The Final Cut, the majority of them are 3 stars and higher, it even has quite a few 5 star ratings. It seems many people do like, while others hate it... this doesn't mean you should stay away from it, does it? ------------- 
|
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 05:51
The albums that people should stay away from are the ones they already have. Some of those obscure, hard to find albums were obscure and hard to find for a damn good reason.
millibell isn't bad, but it shouldn't have been called "bell" as it doesn't fit with the other versions and reversons of tubbybells. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 05:54
|
Don't see The Final Cut as Pink Floyd's worst album, see it more as a Roger Waters solo album.
I like it lots, so there  ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 07:01
|
Personally I'm very fond of both Final Cut and Love Beach. I agree with the other choices though. |
Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 08:19
|
It's not right to have The Final Cut making this cut. It is in no way an album to "stay away from". Love Beach probably does belong; if you have a soft spot for it that's because you have a prejudice for ELP for some personal reason, as I do, but then that leaves you less than objective. Put it this way, a fan of the overall sound of prog who had not heard ELP could live a long healthy life and never hear that album. Pink Floyd, not so; The Final Cut is important, albeit a Roger Waters solo album. You don't have to like it of course, but it's not a bad album.
-------------  Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 08:24
I agree. I am a totally biased ELP fan so I like it. However if someone asked me to recommend ELP albums, Love Beach would definitely not make the list....and neither would In The Hot Seat for that matter! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 09:26
|
See, as soon as you start a thread like this you will find people that actually like what you despise. So to offend some people for sure, I'm going to have to add this:
Lots of people rave about it. It just never really clicked with me. Still have it in my collection though. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 09:30
 ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 09:35
I kinda like St. Anger 
|
Posted By: Bj-1
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 09:54
|
Always liked St. Anger myself, but Final Cut was a big disappointment.. ------------- RIO/AVANT/ZEUHL - The best thing you can get with yer pants on! |
Posted By: rpe9p
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 10:00
 I dont dislike TFTO actually, but I can see where this thread is going |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 10:31
Lets See:
 Wow. this is the worst you can get 8 versions of Fanfare for the Common Man by Hip Hop DJ's.
- 5 ouches (Should be 10 ouches) Not a decent moment, from the horrendous Mama to the offensive Ilegal Alien.
- 5 ouches Wakeman calls it Onion because it makes him cry, I agree.
- 4 ouches! (A couple decent tracks by ABWH) - 5 ouches Mr Lobotomy is the peak of the Cheese.
- 5 ouchesIván http://www.progarchives.com/progressive_rock_discography_covers/431/cover_67202232003.jpg - ------------- 
|
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 10:54
|
The Final Cut had certain attributes. Love beach has it's moments as well. I guess the guy who started the thread hasn't read much about ELP ( interviews etc. ) and how the album came about. Just too eager to pounce on an album because of it's cover and concept that wasn't really the band's idea. I put that album on the turntable ore than Brain Salad Surgery. Carl Palmer plays Canario all the time during his shows to this day. Why not start a thread discussing why these albums turned out the way they did rather than just slamming the hell out of them, This is what I've been finding on the site over the past few months on this site is that is there are so many uninformed know it alls. ------------- |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:13
I agree that The Final Cut has it's moments and that Love Beach has Canario (Nothing else IMO), as a fact I haven't posed any of this in y list, but the thread opener has the right to give his opinion, we do that daily when we place a 5 or a 1 star besides a review.
We are here to say what we believe, the reasons why the albums are bad is not our problem, as a fact I see the excuses of ELP for Love Beach as an offence for the fans.
They were tired, they wanted to split (Or release albums in their own label), but they had received money for another album from Atlantic Records, so in revenge they released a bad album that the fans (including me) bought trusting in the name Emerson Lake & Palmer, so at the end the fans paid the bill on a day when there was Internet to warn us which album was good or bad.
Iván
-------------
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:18
It may be rather overwrought, but I really like that album. I was much less enthralled by Steve Hillage's Fish Rising. To each his or her own. ................................................................................. One I'd mention, I actually quite like it to be honest is (an Eskaton spin-off):  And another from Zeuhl that I quite like (some of the music is really quite good), but would not recommend is Troll Vol. 2 by Michel Altmayer:  ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:21
Mama is good. I like this one on vinyl.  ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:40
I remember in November '78 when it came out we skipped school and waited for the record store to open so we couldgrab the first copies and couldn't have been that disappointed because we layed the freakin thing all afternoon. E, L or P would never do that to their fans. Vangelis sort of did that with Beaubourg to get out of his RCA contract but it's kind of ironic that so many people including myself love it. ------------- |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:52
This has to be one of the worst I've heard. It's an album I've been meaning to include here under VArious Artists: COncept albums (jazz/ fusion/ electronica). Called a soundtrack to the novel Battlefield Earth, It's incredibly cheesy. The electronics which was labelled ground-breaking (use of a computer attached to a keyboard -- The Fairlight Computer Musical Instrument), and Hubbard dubbed it "the music of the future", were already some years old at the time (not a new sampler and had been used before)., and it sounds like poor quality midi files (or what one might have heard in old video games). It's one of those so bad it's good albums (although some of the music, especially that not composed by L. Ron Hubbard is reasonably good. Notable musician Scientologists of the time such as Chick Corea and Stanley Clarke perform on it. It's one I would recommend, but more for humour and/or interest value, but not as a good album. L. Ron Hubbard may have been an OT (Operative Thetan) master of time and space, but not of music. He has a whole bunch of albums which he collaborated with others on. Perhaps we could blame Xenu for this one. Quoted from http://www.ronthemusicmaker.org/music/be.htm - http://www.ronthemusicmaker.org/music/be.htm "To achieve what has, in all truth, only recently been approximated, Ron employed a then wholly unexplored device, the Computer Musical Instrument (CMI). Manufactured by Fairlight (which itself had not yet recognized the instrument’s full potential), the CMI represented not a new form of synthesizer to replicate sounds, but a means of actually turning natural sounds into thirteen note octaves, so that the natural sounds are the notes of the music. The howling wolves are singing the blues, the blast of guns are playing the rhythms and the alien voices are the horn solos. In other words, all manner of previously nonmusical sounds are suddenly “singing” the song and pounding out the rhythm." It may seem heard to believe that anyhting "Battelfield Earth" related could not be brilliant (of course Travolta gave the performance of a lifetime in his movie production). lol *crosses fingers that I don't get sued by the most litigious of pseudo-religions* And apologies if there are any Scientologists in the house. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 13:25
Chick Corea apparently has a Black Belt in Scientology 
|
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 14:07
Yes they did:
They admit;
So please, my version is 100% accurate, and they did it again
They were not able to release an album, Keith was sick, Carl required a carpal tunnel syndrome surgery but they did it anyway. Even more, according to Allmusic they were again forced by a label to release a third album from a trilogy for what they had been paid also.
Again who paid the bill?
The fans that bought the album.
This doesn't mean that I'm an ELP hater, I love the band, seen them two times (Living in Peru, it's a lot) and own all their albums except Re-Works, but facts are facts.
Iván
-------------
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 14:22
|
All you've shown Ivan is that it was the record labels faklt in both cases. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 14:32
Careful, don't want to get in their books as an "enemy". Wouldn't want their lawyers suing the pants off you. That will only make it easier for Chick Corea when he goes kung-fu on your ass; Issac "gonna make love to ya" Hayes will treat it it in his own special way; and then Tom Cruise will jump out of the closet and join the fray. Travolta will probably stay in the john til it's over.------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Evolver
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 14:35
So you did to the record what the label tried to do to us? (sorry, couldn't resist)------------- Trust me. I know what I'm doing. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 14:48
I'm not a fan of the labels, but they were asking for what they paid for...They paid for 3 albums, they wouldn't accept 2. Plus ELP are the ones who (according ro their own words) recorded a disjointed and uninspired collection of songs. Iván -------------
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 14:57
Wel they would have to admit that wouldn't they? Who sends a tired, imploding band...a band that could by now barely stand each other...to record an album? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 15:03
------------- |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 15:11
|
The album was released in November `78. I remember because I was in the 11th grade and we skipped school to get the first copies. Can`t remember the exact date but I remember it was a Tuesday and we weren`t the only ones waiting at 8 o`clock in the morning in front of Sam The Record Man in Montréal. You guys have to stop relying on the Wikipedia and the damn internet.
------------- |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 15:28
On the bright side at least they got to hang out in The Bahamas .I revised that accordingly. v Well, at least it sounded good to me. I'd rather be in Hawaii anyway.------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 15:47
|
Hey it wasn`t all that rosy. Emerson packed a .357 magnum for the time they were there because one of his friend`s wife was robbed and raped. Lots of crime down there even then. It was the last time he did cocaine as well. Alvin Lee and Emerson tried to swim to England from the bahamas on cocaine. They turned back. ------------- |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 15:52
| I rated The Final Cut with one star. Overwrought, uninspired, unsubtle, shout-or-whisper, hypocritical dross. But I think every prog lover should own it. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 16:18
Seconded. It's great from start to finish, not as spectacular in The Wall's rock opera style, neither catchy and amazing as WYWH and DSOTM, but still it's a vey well done war-themed album, with a lot to appreciate from it. |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 23:18
Excellent words about Love Beach there and i will try to get hold of Pictures Of An Exhibitionist By Keith Emerson to further my understanding. Its strange how an album like Love Beach can stir so many people up. The best thing about is its notoriety as ELP's disaster. I know people like it but people also like Billy Ray Cyrus' 'Achy Brakey Heart' - perhaps the worst song ever recorded! There's no accounting for taste. In comparison to all ELP albums Love Beach is still horrendous. I have ELP's 'In the Hot Seat' and it rarely gets played because it is quite mediocre - actually I can't think of a single good song on it, but its still better than 'Love Beach' simply for production value and song lyrics. I think I remember the first 2 songs were quite catchy but I couldn't tell you the names of them without looking it up - therefore forgettable.
Whereas the wonderful 'Tarkus', 'Brain Salad Surgery' and 'Trilogy' are streets ahead in terms of musical virtuoso performances and totally brilliant songs and inspired ideas. It is the reason we love ELP. How can you compare 'Karn Evil 9' with 'An Officer and a Gentlemen'? they are from 2 different planets.
Emerson said in an interview on the DVD box set 'From the Beginning', I remember, "Love Beach, eh? Well before we even get into the music let's discuss the front cover..." He hated everything about it understandably and he has been quick to point out that the band never bothered playing the songs live on that album.
Anyway, there are always going to be fans no matter how mediocre an album - I guess that's what we love about music. But I dont apologise for despising all the albums mentioned earlier - they are ORDINARY. People here are complaining about 'The Final Cut' by Pink Floyd as being an excellent album - its not even a Pink Floyd album, as someone pointed out - the label is on the album but the content does not match up - Its a Roger Waters work of grandeur in spite of the Floyd - he is a bitter, twisted artist and his music without Floyd's inspiration is rather bland - Take 'the Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking' - PLEASE! Yet he is brilliant on 'The Wall' and his live performance was amazing - so there is inconsistency in his work.
I loved watching him perform again at Live Aid - absolutely priceless - I just wish he could have sorted out his differences with Gilmour and the band earlier rather than when its all too late. -------------
|
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 02:12
|
^ don't want to be too cynical, but I'd put less credence into what an artist says about an album after it's been universally panned by critics and fans alike. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 09:19
|
In his 2002 book he has quite a different tone. He actually was somewhat proud of being able to slip in the mini epic, Memiors Of An Officer And A Gentleman. It wasn`t a bad album. I guess if I review it it`ll end up in that reviews reporting thread. So I JUST WON`T BOTHER. What I suggest is that you guys read the damn book! There`s even some positive reviews on it on Amazon that I read this morning.
------------- |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 09:35
I heard the album many years ago and have Memoirs in my Manticore box set. It is half the album after all and so probably redeems the album somewhat. Although it's not quite on the level of Karn Evil 9 or Pirates. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 12:17
|
i will not post in negative threads
i will not post in negative threads
i will not post in negative threads
fully agree with The Final Cut though, absolutely awful
damnit
i will not post in negative threads again
i will not..... -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 12:27
Overwrought? I guess I don't understand the term, seems like their most down to earth title.
Uninspired? Hardly. Waters said that album meant more to him than most of the others, and I can hear that it does. Even Dave, in between his pouting, plays with great passion.
Shout/Whisper? Agree 100%. I hate that. Anytime I have to keep adjusting the volume, I could just strangle them. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 12:36
one of my favorite albums. the interplay between Hillage and Stewart is just great, the rhythm section is excellent too, and every odd rhythm up to 13/8 can be found on it. and the songs are good too. there are certainly better singers around than Hillage or Greenwood, but that detail bothers me in the least -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 13:40
|
I`m listening to the Final Cut right now. Not now John is sung almost entirely by Gilmour Excellent track with the girlie chorus. I like the sonic boom at the beginning of Get Your Filthy Hands off My Desert. There`s also some great guitar work from Gilmour on tracks like The Fletcher Memorial Home. I gave it a 3 star rating back in 2004 and I think I`ll stick with it. I like putting the headphones on for this one. Impeccably produced. Slartibartfast has a good point above. Bring up a topic like this and find out that there are people out there that one person`s junk is another one`s treasure. I even wrote a three star review for Love beach this morning. So there! .
------------- |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 18:33
Well, that was a summary of my review. Here's the whole thing. Probably the most negative review I've ever written. This record ought not to have been made. WATERS has already had his say ad nauseam about the war and the death of his father: from 'Corporal Clegg' on 'A Saucerful of Secrets', barely an album has gone by without the obligatory war reminisce. But a whole album of off-casts from 'The Wall' does nothing but establish that WATERS has far less to say than he thought. Here's what's wrong with this album. First, it's bereft of musical ideas, substituting the tedious, repetitive sudden shift in dynamics from piano to fortissimo for the gradual build that made PINK FLOYD listenable. Soft, loud, soft, loud, ten times a song. Here's a tip, ROGER, we've got the point. I can barely believe this gifted man has become a one-trick pony, but it's true, as evidenced by this and his first solo album. Where's the subtlety in this? The enjoyment? Second, what music exists is second-hand, having been culled from 'The Wall': throughout the album we hear motifs 'The Wall' reprised. Listen to 'The Hero's Return' and the rhythm guitar straight from 'Another Brick'. Third, the singing. There isn't any. WATERS in turns either whispers or shouts. Appalling. Fourth, it's just so damn obvious. How about some sound effects that make us think, rather than bludgeoning us over the head? This feels like the musical equivalent of watching one of those naive History Channel docos. I'm anti-war, but this is just so one-sided it's not credible. Fifth, and most damning, the rest of the band are invisible. WRIGHT has been fired, replaced not by a keyboardist, but by an orchestra. GILMOUR is dusted off to do the odd truncated solo and gets to sing for a few seconds. MASON slaps the skins like a metronome, bored with the proceedings. WATERS is a hypocrite, protesting the selfish actions of politicians ripping the world apart while acting like a tyrant and dictator as he destroys his band. But we're well beyond hypocrisy here. This stuff is puerile. Infantile. Simplistic. His megalomania is breathtaking: he designed the album cover, played many of the guitars (clearly GILMOUR wasn't good enough), got drummers in to do some of MASON's parts, and even had his brother-in-law make a video of four tracks from the album. And on the back cover he graciously admitted that PINK FLOYD helped him perform it. Staggeringly, he later admitted that 'there was no band' (Mason, Inside Out). Why not? I'm not going to bother talking about the musical highlights, because there aren't any. The songs pass by in a melange of simplistic orchestrations and soft/loud dichotomies. The album has a definite highlight, however, a moment that rises well above the rest. It's the appalling moment when someone shouts 'Get your filthy hands off my desert!' I guess WATERS meant for it to be funny, but the incipient racism is breathtaking, as though a desert couldn't possibly be worth fighting over. People live in them, ROGER. To sum up, the album is an unmitigated stinker. And yes, I'm coloured by my deep disappointment on purchasing this record. Others find merit in it, though I cannot. Look in the dictionary under 'self-indulgence' and you'll see a picture of ROGER WATERS singing 'The Final Cut.' |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 19:50
Great review loved that
i was not so eloquent with this review
Heres mine: (prepares for a flaming)
The Final Cut
This is Pink Floyds worst album...
It is in essence the 'Love Beach' of Emerson Lake and Palmer. It is 'The Wall' without the bricks. A shocker. The tracks are forgettable and act as more a solo project for Waters than a band effort. Highlights? The Post War Dream - OK The Hero's Return - if youre in the mood The Gunners Dream - OK Get Your Filthy Hands Off My Desert - curious The Fletcher Memorial Home - OK Not Now John - best track but not much better than the aforementioned tracks. Nothing more needs to be said. I wont waste my time with this any further. Just avoid this. It contaminates Pink Floyd's catalogue. -------------
|
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 22:24
seconded. I saw David Gilmour's About Face at Walmart once and had to buy it. I have listened to it for a grand total of two times. |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 22:38
LOL you listened it for a grand total of two times. That has truly made my day.
 -------------
|
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 06:47
Always worth quoting my original post just for the album cover art. I think the reason why this album hasn't wowed me, and I've listened to it more than a few times over the years, is that I was expecting something along the lines of One Of A Kind, which was my introduction to Dave Stewart. I do like National Health, though. Now for another one I keep but would recommend people stay away from:
Arrggghhh. I think the main reason I keep albums like these in my collection and listen to them on rotation is just for the chance that one day they might just click with me. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 21:37
|
I had heard of Trout Mask Replica - it appeared in album cover anthology book
The sound is perhaps as bad as the cover. What are the tracks on it that we are to stay away from?
btw I thought of another terrible prog album recommended by Classic Rock Presents Prog issue 1
 I hated it! It wasnt even prog - it sounded like Blur or some grunge punk unit - i sent it back to the store and had it replaced with a great album by Ayreon. Yet the magazine said its a masterpiece!!!!! On what level can it be termed a masterpiece??? Please explain.
-------------
|
Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 22:00
|
I know some people will hate me.... 4 or 5
to most of the DT albums.
------------- Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 03:53
| Hey, if you don't like the quiet-loud changes, you should absolutely hate early King Crimson. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 04:29
Good to hear someone say it - I've disliked everything they released since AWAKE... -Joel -------------
|
Posted By: Any Colour You Like
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 04:35
Touche. And, The Final Cut is decidedly dodgy. This is coming from a huge Waters and PF fanboy. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 05:21
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRGGHHH!!! MY DESERT ISLAND RECORD!!! I'm not offended. I'm upset!  |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 05:29
AAAAAAA!!! My all-time favourite avant record!!! AAAAAA!!! Did you saw what he just posted? Did you saw what he just posted twice?!? Did you folks?!? Enough, I'm out. I'll be in 'Welcome Newbies' section.  |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 06:54
|
AAAAAA!!!! Hey, in the end I'll never knock anyone for liking what they like even if I don't. For the record, those two are in my collection still and so they show up in rotation. Maybe one day they will work for me. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 08:17
|
Wow. I see this is a very optimistic thread Also stay away from Yes' Open Your Eyes. I've never heard such crap in my whole life  ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Green Shield Stamp
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 08:36
|
I would put 'The Final Cut' in the top 5 of Floyd albums of all time - so, it is definitely not one to avoid. In many ways I think of it as 'The Wall' part 2.
Ones to avoid:
QE2 and Islands by Mike Oldfield
Drama by Yes
Rhapsodies by Rick Wakeman
i by Patrick Moraz
------------- Haiku Writing a poem With seventeen syllables Is very diffic.... |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 09:00
Excellent, you hit on three I like QE2, Drama, and i. I really really like i. I'm with you on Rhapsodies, I have the LP and no desire to get it on CD even if it is available and I'm not checking to see if it is. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 09:27
|
Drama is my favourite Yes album man.
------------- |
Posted By: Drummerboy
Date Posted: August 24 2009 at 14:48
| In the spirit of the original listing: clunkers by otherwise (arguably) good to great bands, Caravan put out some real crap (I'm thinking Blind Dogs at St. Dustin's for example) that could make one weep after a run of great albums like For Girls Who Grow Plump in the Night. They just totally lost their way, moving into a jazz-oriented no-man's land. |
Posted By: DRACCA
Date Posted: August 24 2009 at 16:13
Oh my God! I like this person. I must have laughed for an hour after reading this. How true it is ------------- INNER TEMPLE |
Posted By: cesar polo
Date Posted: August 25 2009 at 02:32
|
I refuse to make negative lists.
But I will say i like "The final cut" and I love "Love beach" (the most underrated prog album ever).
|
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: August 25 2009 at 19:30
|
Hey DRACCA
Thanks for the compliment
I began this thread simply to get some info on what to avoid and in so doing I stirred up a hornets nest
LOL
 -------------
|
Posted By: The Switch Blade
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 22:36
| "Not Now John" and "Some Kind of Monster" are both pretty good songs. |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 13:09
My taste must be completely different, when I ripped The Final Cut I purposely excluded "Not Now John", the only PF song I actively avoid. |
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 11:07
|
I like the Final Cut somewhat. The first poster said it's redeemed by nothing at all. Apparently he didn't listen at all to the lyrics, Roger's best. Speaking of Roger... Roger Waters- The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking
Takes the sonic background of...well, basically nothing and has Roger narrate the stupidest story you ever heard backed by his worst use of sounds effects ever. Only redeeming factor is Eric Clapton solos pretty well over top of musical garbage.
4 ouches?
Behold the Arctopus- Nanonucleonis Cyborb Summoning.
This is what happens when a band focuses on technically dazzling chops over any sort of soul, melody, or basic regard for structure. I know, I know, a dozen fans will hate me saying I don't get that these guys are structuring their music like a gamelon or something like that, but I stand by this statement. The band seems to just aimlessly noodle in the most irritating way possible. I've heard John Cage noise experiments that were less irritating: at least there was some sort of conceptual purpose to his work. This just seems like jerking off.
Four and a half ouches?
Organization- Tone Float
This little known album is actually the first album that Ralf and Florian from Kraftwerk worked on. It's garbage. Taking the worst aspects of psychadelic music and magnifying them and holding them up to the to the light as if they were artful and creative. Half of the album features no instruments besides drums. It's a very strange and irritating album. Luckily, it's not available for purchase on CD.
Five Ouches
Pink Floyd- A Momentary Lapse of Reason
Really, isn't this one kind of obvious? At least The Final Cut is semi-respectable. This confused, irritating, and melodyless version of Pink Floyd shows that Dave really didn't know what to do with the band. It's more of a Dave Gilmour solo album, which is ironic, considering his solo albums are the most enjoyable thing to come out of a Pink Floyd member since the Wall, except for maybe Amused to Death.
Three and a half ouches
Gentle Giant- Interview
This will be (maybe) slightly controversial, but this album really showed that Gentle Giant were lost in their prog world with no escape. This convuluted, messy, poorly constructed album takes all of the potential downfalls of Gentle Giant's approach and, once again, holds them up to the light. Almost unlistenable.
Five Ouches
------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 12:46
|
And we have yet ANOTHER negative nancy.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 16:04
And coming from the Pessimist that's saying something!  ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 18:37
|
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 18:45
I hate this thread. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 10:48
|
I love your avatar. Spread the love man, no need for hate on the Archives. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: raindance
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 13:21
|
Genesis-And Then there were Three [not really prog though]
King Crimson-Three of a Perfect Pair
|
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 13:31
Three of A Perfect Pair is the second best 80's King Crimson album. Out of...three, I guess, but it's a strong album.
Ah agree to disagree I suppose eh? ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 13:35
------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 13:46
Must have had a brain fart. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
|
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 13:48
|
How true. Except for a few shining moments, Steve isn't really there for that album. Blood on The Rooftops is his song, and that's one of the best songs there. Otherwise it's Tony Banks and Michael Rutherford all the way, baby! Which doesn't bother me, per se. I think they're both excellent songwriters and musicians. And normally, the patented (in style by Tony in name by George Starostin) Banksynth style doesn't usually bother me. However there's just something about his tone on this album that gets to me. I think it's just such a keyboard dominated album that my mind spins. I normally think quite highly of Tony (including his early organ, piano and mellotron use) and his synth playing later is pretty creative (half of the atmosphere on the Lamb is lost without Tony) and though I know this will irritate a lot of hard line fans, his synthesizer work on Duke, Abacab, Genesis, and even parts of Invisible Touch are quite creative and groundbreaking. However, his work on Wind and parts of And Then There Were Three just really grate on my nerves. Oh well. His solo album wasn't too bad. Which one? I'm not telling! ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 16:08
I third this statement. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 16:15
|
Oh wow, I fourth that statement. In fact, I think I had a series of brain farts that clouded the fact that I just didn't notice...
We all know that Genesis's guitarist was Steve Hillage. My bad!
 ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 18:20
|
^ I'm beginning to like him
...and It wasn't Steve Hillage it was Steve Hogarth, and he wasn't the guitarist, he was the singer who replaced Peter Gabriel.  ------------- What? |
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 19:09
|
I thought Peter Cetera was the singer of Genesis who quit to join Ilinois speed metal group Peoria? ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 19:31
|
Final Cut is sublime. Makes most modern day prog decidedley ' Plonkish" ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 00:27
plonkish?
plonk 1
Verb
to put down heavily and carelessly: he plonked himself down on the sofa
Noun
the act or sound of plonking [variant of plunk]
plonk 2 Noun
Informal cheap inferior wine [origin unknown]
Oh I see....
 It was innovative at that. But not up to PF usual briliance - just disappointing overall.
hc_dict()
-------------
|
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 01:38
Ah man, I like that album. Empty City, Give it Back (weird for GG but I still like it), and I Lost My Head are all classic GG. That said it's the worst of their first classic 8 albums. Weird how people can view things so differently though.
The Final Cut is the two buck chuck of Pink Floyd. :P I will say I like Amused to Death a hell of a lot more. It has actual music going on. Anyway, as for my list of sh*tty prog albums: The Final Cut - Pink Floyd: Unmusical garbage, the lyrics aren't inspired, just overly personal to Waters. No one should care about this album but some force themselves to. Waters gets so caught up in his personal crap that he neglects to make any sort of attempt to give back to the audience with a relatable message. Oh, and actual music. 5 ouches: Frances the Mute - The Mars Volta: The most pointless, aimless group of songs/noise recordings with pseudo meanings I've ever heard. I thought I had heard some godawful nonsense when I heard De-Loused but then I attempted to sit through Cygnus... Vismund Cygnus and Cassandra Gemini. It's way worse than just tuneless noise, it's tuneless noise with pretensions of being music. 5 ouches: Union - Yes: I love Yes in their heyday, but they must have just forgotten how to make music with this one. Most of the songs are just stupid New Age meets hair metal bullsh*t with Jon Anderson shrieking meaningless platitudes over the top, the best of these being "Shock to the System" because it has one supremely butt rocking riff that is catchy if you forget for a moment that you're listening to Yes. I had to listen to this album in small bursts because they so thoroughly bludgeoned my senses into nothingness with even a two song attempt. Worse than "Calling All Stations" by Genesis, "I Would Have Waited Forever" quite happily having never heard this. 5 ouches: (No controversy here I would think. :P)Woo, I feel a little bit of the black negativity has seeped out of me from that. I might come back to unload some more later. :P |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 02:15
| Whoa, I just have to say, everyone, look at my profile and click "reviews list". My sig that you see under my posts, for me at least, is f**king HUGE! It goes past where the screen should normally go. :P Is it like that for you guys too? It's kinda awesome. :P |
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 08:43
While I agree the music on Final Cut is mostly null it's at least pleasant and not dissonant like some bad prog I've heard. And the lyrics are inspired: in fact, I consider them Roger's best lyrics...except for maybe, natch, Amused to Death. That said, Roger had clearly given up on writing rock music at this point.
My friend Adam described Frances the Mute like this "On their first album they were on drugs and made great music...they quit drugs after that album, but tried to make Frances the Mute as if they were on drugs." Couldn't agree more.
I'll defend Yes the tiniest little bit on Onion and say that it's well documented that the producer of that album truly mangled the hell out of it. He brought in a lot of session musicians, rewrote huge sections, erased parts and vocals, and did whatever he wanted. Rick says he doesn't hear any of his keyboards on the album at all and I can definitely understand that. The producer brought in like six keyboardists or somethign to replace Rick, three or four drummers for Bill Bruford (insane) and a couple of guitarists for Steve Howe. John McFerrin famously said "If Steve Howe wrote or played the riffs to Dangerous of Shock to the System, I'll eat my hat." That's a bit of a paraphrase, and I may be off with the quote, but I agree. That said, the songs themselves are still weak... ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 19:27
|
Everyone is bagging out Frances the Mute by Mars Volta - I liked that one tremendously. -------------
|
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 19:34
Great album ! I was listening to it a couple of days ago, and marveled at how genuinely progressive it sounds. It was my introduction to the band - love at first hearing. I have to wonder at how useful or productive these threads are, but they seem to be all the rage... They make it seem as if the main use of a prog forum was not promoting the music, but bashing as much stuff as we can . |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 19:38
I don't have a favorite album from The Mars Volta. "Tetragrammaton" is my favorite song, but if I were forced to choose a favorite from them at gunpoint. Frances the Mute would be it. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 19:46
|
meh... I don't even care much for the group.. or their albums.. but still would list them as an essential prog group. They pretty much define modern prog (as in the old meaning.. Progressive rock music). there is no retro prog there.. not even a sniff of it... that makes them essential when looking at prog. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 03:09
|
I don't really agree with the premise of this thread. I think that every album can find someone to appreciate it. Nevertheless, I strongly recommend that you don't buy the following albums without hearing some samples first.
Tony Banks -- The Fugitive
Electric Light Orchestra -- No Answer
Rick Wakeman -- Rock 'n Roll Prophet
Yes -- Open Your Eyes
Utopia -- Trivia ------------- 
|
Posted By: peace_echoe
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 07:41
|
I LOVE ELOY:D SO MUCH
------------- slow motion... |
Posted By: deafmoon
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 16:34
|
I agree. Space Shanty does not move me one bit and neither does the Final Cut - which is why both of those discs were sold years ago out of my collection.
Why keep stuff that you don't enjoy? ------------- Deafmoon |
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 16:48
I'd agree. I think you have a good point about all of these albums. I quite like The Fugitive (the weird, dry sound of this album was something quite different from Tony and his voice...he compared it to the Pet Shop Boys guy and he was right). No Answer is pretty weird if you're expecting anything like what ELO did earlier, but it has it's moments. Don't like Rock n Roll Prophet. Open Your Eyes is fun to me, but I know why people don't like it. Trivia is the beginning of the end for Todd. I think what you did here is actually better than "stay away from these albums" because you say "it would be a good idea to sample these first" is a much better and more effective critique. ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 18:40
OK, when I began this thread my main intention was indeed a selfish one, in other words I did not want to waste any more money buying rubbish that passes itself off as prog. The sad thing is that there are reviews that hail albums as masterpieces and I have a real problem with that because not everything that you like is a masterpiece, a 4 star rating should be sufficient but the 5 star rating is being thrown around like candy in these archives.
I believe every album has something to appreciate for sure. for instance:
Godley and Creme have an appalling album called "Freeze Frame" and yet the brilliant "Englishman in new York" is on it - a one track one hit wonder bar none!
I love Yes and Rick Wakeman is a genius but I bought his "Frost In Space" and I have listened to that a grand total of one and a half times! Elevator Music is better!
I read rave reviews in 'Classic Rock Presents Prog issue 1' of And you shall know them by the trail of the dead's new album - have no idea what its called now. It was so bad I was almost in tears when I heard it. I took it back to the shop and pleaded for them to let me swap it. The shopowner of this CD super store looked at me and said 'what would you swap it for?' I pulled out of the air a band I love, Ayreon, who I can trust, and he said, 'OK go get it'. I grabbed "The Universal Migrator 1 and 2" - more money but better quality. He said 'OK give me the difference in cash and its yours'. I can't tell you how delighted I was about this. The Ayreon Cd was excellent! I spent over $300 on CDs in that store.
So the mag 'Classic Rock Presents Prog issue 1' needs to reassess what they are saying I believe. So I started this thread after that to find out who else to avoid like the plague and its been successful - I have quite a list now thanks to all the replys. i have many threads on this archive but none have had such a reaction as this one, so whos complaining?
I love prog and would never want to dish out negativity on such an incredible genre of music. However, there are still some bad eggs among the nest and we should not hide the fact!
-------------
|
Posted By: SonicDeath10
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 18:49
|
Freeze Frame is great! The title track is great and nightmarish, Random Brainwaves sounds uncannily like that, to good effect, and I Pity Inanimate Objects is a lot of fun. The NEXT album isn't very good though, unfortunately... ------------- "Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 21:29
Oh boy, homogenized Rush and Santana (instead of taboo Yes and/or Genesis influence) with shrieky vocals spouting nonsense! Let's not forget pointless, contextless noise! WOO! Now that's progressive, maaaan. Also let me stress again; no Yes or Genesis influence at all. Therefore they are progressive. I'm tired of this sh*t.
|
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: September 01 2009 at 22:55
I'm tired of this sh*t. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
|