Should Be Toto in PA?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60626
Printed Date: July 19 2025 at 03:43
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Should Be Toto in PA?
Posted By: grimpiter
Subject: Should Be Toto in PA?
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 21:53
| What do we think? Think specially in "Falling in between" |
Replies:
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 00:47
| In my opinion - no - they are great musicians for sure, some great albums , some mediocre ones - but as a whole not prog not even related, anyway Hydra stands as one of the best albums of the late '70's and one of my fav from them. |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 01:07
I agree 100% with what you said... Not even Prog-related. Well put! -Joel ------------- 
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b_olariu wrote:Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 03:21
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You could just barely make a case for hem in prog related, but I still vote no. ------------- 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 08:06
Ivan must not have been around yesterday or today yet.  ------------- 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 08:07
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This is only the 15th or 20th different suggestion for Toto to the Prog Archives. So obviously, they have absolutely nothing to do with prog and have no business being on this site. -------------
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 08:10
I guess I'll be the first person to vote "yes"
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Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 08:14
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I voted no but, if they were to be included, stranger things have happened...Such as,After The Fire being in Symphonic Prog'. ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 14:09
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maybe if we did this type of poll more often then 35098986 new artists wouldn't be added each week -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 15:48
Of course you know TOTO's discography by heart and can swear songs like child's anthem, dave's gone skiing, jake to the bone, better world (a mini-suite divided in three movements taht I first discovered on a french prog radio broadcast !) have nothing to do with prog. TOTO often included one jazz-rock/prog title on their albums...
TOTO is interesting by the fact that their albums are often varied in styles, this is particularly the case of 'mindfields' with a blend of blues, raga-rock, pop, AOR, prog.
I can't think of a bad album by them (maybe 'turn back' is less inspired than the others, but still enjoyable).
And livefields (with Simon Phillips on drums) has to be one of the best live performances by a rock band ever...
Even if they are more prog than ASIA and GTR (which presence in PA is a mystery to me), they don't fit the tag.
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Mr ProgFreak
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 17:13
They're almost Prog-Related.
------------- https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike" rel="nofollow - https://tagyourmusic.org/users/Mike |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 17:25
Actually, ATF's first album was quite proggy. And a great album at that. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: August 22 2009 at 19:06
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Should better write english? ...sorry ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: August 22 2009 at 19:54
| People voting 'no' have obviously never listened to a full TOTO record in their short lives. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 00:11
yeah, that's probably it  ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 00:13
And that's it. Nothing less, nothing more. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 00:15
If you honestly can't hear the Prog influence in Toto's music, I don't think I can take your opinion on anything seriously anymore. With all respect.  I'm not saying they ARE prog, but prog-related I do believe is more than warranted. I cannot understand why so many people are quick to dismiss them. I mean, it's not like they are . . . Metallica, or anything! Pfft! |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 00:19
| Oh, and p.s. . . . any poll that allows multiple votes is pretty much useless in a situation like this. Just a little tidbit for the rather reclusive topic starter. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 00:26
| I think Toto are a great band and very progressive in places far more progressive than probably 50% of the artists on this site ... I`m happy to know that |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 00:35
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104 Yes votes.. riiiiiiiiiiiight |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 00:44
Exactly why re-vote-able polls are pretty useless. |
Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 01:09
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NO
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 01:19
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Toto + PA = Potato I don't think it SHOULD be in PA, but I do think it has prog-related merits (maybe not enough to be in Prog-Related, but it still has a relation to Prog). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 02:26
Of course they're influenced by prog. Virtually every serious rock band of the time was. Dire Straits is another example. Prog sensibilities brushed across rock music and left its mark everywhere. But that's far, far short of saying they're prog or even prog-related. In my opinion they are not. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 05:06
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Depends which Toto album you hear .. only a frigging jerk would listen to a song like Home Of The Brave s middle section or the song Hyrdra and say it isn't prog ... Only a frigging jerk would go to a Toto concert and come out and say they were just OK musically ....I bet they knock your frigging prog socks off !!! I was at one and it was not long after I saw pink floyd ...progressively Toto blitzed Floyd by a long long way and I only paid $20 to see toto to this day I remember it was the best live prog experience of my life... Of course they should be on this frigging site .. and perhaps one frigging day they will be if there's any frigging fairness to how it works |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 05:40
Friggin democracy, it just gets in the way ------------- 
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 09:34
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I vote 'Yes', just once, because I think they're a bit prog-related. Home of the Brave is a fine example of a prog-like song. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 09:36
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of course they should.... the amount of debate on whether they are ... in it's own funny way.. mandates they should be. The purpose of the site is reviewing... and also reflecting the diverse nature of prog and all the various notions of prog. where the site has gone off the track, me thinks, is thinking we DETERMINE what is prog or not.... instead of making the groups available.. and letting you all decide and influence others through discussion and reviews. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: TheSubhuman
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 09:44
How very classy  . Wonderful how people can present their opinion as fact, and on the way insult anyone who does not agree with them. I wonder why people on this site have to behave in such an aggressive, immature way to make their point. It should be clear by now that everyone's opinion of what is prog differs wildly, unless we are talking about the original Seventies bands. Anyway... Why does every suggestion have to became a mud-slinging match against the site or other users? If you disagree with about 50% of the bands included here, why are you still here, attacking those who might hold a different opinion? Do you have any idea of how many prog sites there are on the web? You might even find one that thinks Toto are 'more prog' (absolutely ridiculous concept, IMHO) than Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis and what not. Ah, in case you were wondering, I couldn't care less if Toto get added - I happen to think that most of the so-called AOR bands are prog-related to a certain extent, and I have never been one to lose sleep (or insult others) about what's here and what's not. What I care about, though, are the dozens of up-and-coming PROG bands that are not in the DB, whom we have a duty - as the 'ultimate prog resource' - to support, instead of coming to blows about Toto, The Stranglers, Bob Dylan, or any such act that does not need our help to stay in the limelight. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 10:05
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can we just go ahead and add every rock/metal artist that's ever existed and be done with all the fighting we can rename the place Somewhat Prog Archives: Your Ultimate Every Band Ever Archive ------------- Time always wins. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 10:08
does that mean you'll leave in a huff?  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: TheSubhuman
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 10:11
If the owner decides this is the way to go, it will happen whether you like it or not - unless you all stop whining and decide to contact him and ask him to stop. Personally, I believe comments such as yours are totally useless if not followed by any action. And then, no one is forcing you (or anyone else who is prone to posting such inanities) to visit here, seen the number of prog forums to be found around the web. |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 10:16
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------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: Seyo
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 10:21
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From what I heard of them, I judge - NO! Great musicianship alone does not make it progressive rock.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 17:03
With all due respect, I don't think anybody here is saying that. I listen to plenty of artists with amazing technical chops and yet I do not think they are even remotely progressive. Obviously enough of Toto's music seems Prog enough for this debate to be as split as it is, and I think it should be taken a lot more seriously than simply waving it away as somebody saying good musicianship equals prog. You're belittling the proposition when you do that. |
Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: August 23 2009 at 17:39
| Not particularly, no, but if they were added I wouldn't really be put off at all |
Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: August 24 2009 at 17:24
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I really like the band, and although I think they have some prog related moments it's not enough to be included on the site.
------------- 
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: August 24 2009 at 22:15
| Considered on their own merits, which is the way we are supposed to do it, I would say no. Considered in relation to other bands in prog related, which is how we are not supposed to do it, I would say yes. I think too few of their songs qualify, but, having said that, geez Hydra is a great prog song and a pretty good pop rock album. And Africa is a fantastic pop tune |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: August 25 2009 at 00:15
 |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: August 25 2009 at 00:21
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It's amazing how we all get in a tizz about debateable inclusions from the past and yet some newer groups with no emotional attachments get an easier passage to PA.
For the record I am not damning the credibility of genre team decisions I just think it is amusing that we can't resolve emotive " past tense" debates............Why? Cos the music was major influential.
We should draw up a list of 20/30 controversials and slug it out once and for all....Owner included  ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Terrest Cephalopod
Date Posted: August 25 2009 at 07:55
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I think that ToTo may be in progarchives, but much other bands too, such as Slowdive or Sonic Youth.
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Posted By: SgtPepper67
Date Posted: August 25 2009 at 20:52
The Beatles are in proto-prog and their music fits perfectly with the definition of that non-prog genre. -------------
In the end the love you take is equal to the love you made... |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: August 25 2009 at 21:14
Let's just leave TOTO in Kansas  ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: mobby
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 03:46
| as much as bands like reo speedwagon or chicago should be..they are not a bad band..had few good songs but they are not prog or prog related..the genre should be more defined..not every band who had a song more than 5 mins long or a bit complex means it is prog related... |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 12:43
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I can understand that some people suggested Bjork or Laurie Anderson, but Toto... Seriously... I have the feeling that a lot of people are mistaking ProgArchives and AOR-Archives. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 13:22
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Irrelevant, but I love the Dune soundtrack. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Malve87
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 15:53
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you're free to say what you want, but
165 votes yes
135 votes no ------------- ] 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 15:58
Since multiple voting is allowed, the results lack validity (someone could have voted a bunch of times). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Malve87
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 16:01
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then this poll's useless ------------- ]
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: August 26 2009 at 16:13
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Such polls in and of themselves are usually pretty useless anyway, at least in terms of addition. For such additions, it's the arguments that count. One could always add up the posts by people that express that they are in favour and those that are not (plus those that there undecided), anyway. I think that votes with posts to explain why they vote such a way are the ones that should be taken into consideration, anyway. Often people just vote with their gut-feeling or according to their biases (whether they like it or not), or not really knowing the music anyway, or without thinking about arguments for and/or against. What's funny is often the discrepancy between poll results and going through the posts to see who voted what. I've known polls were one option was ahead in the poll while most people in the posts preferred the other option. I don't trust votes without explanations, and really find them pretty worthless (that goes to political elections too), but at least those aren't quite so easily manipulated as this one. I'm a ambivalent by the way. I don't think it SHOULD be here, but I do think it has merit. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: September 07 2009 at 14:50
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i saw a page where they mentiond Toto together with here http://www.wayango.com/genres/rock-art-rockexperimental-neo-prog/ - http://www.wayango.com/genres/rock-art-rockexperimental-neo-prog/ i that makes that Totos music certenly have influenced som Progressive rock geners, i also strongly beleave they also have had a foot in influencing traditional Progressive Metal like Queensryche and Dream Theater. Neo Prog The subgenre relies very much on clean, melodic and emotional electric guitar solos check combined with modern, lush, floating and atmospheric keyboards. check The main musical influences on the neo-prog genre are Genesis, Yes, Camel, Toto and Pink Floyd. indeed just pinpoint on some cases witch makes Toto influencal on Neo Prog |
Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: December 26 2009 at 08:49
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i think based on what is said to be the merrits for inclusion to Crossover prog thet they would fitt there, but also Neo Prog is also a genre that I think Toto have a lot of similaritys with since they are more Synth and Keybord based then guitar and riff based. but also Eclectic is one suited place to have them |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: December 26 2009 at 09:10
Toto. In Eclectic. Over my dead, eyeless, green, mould-covered body. ------------- |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: December 26 2009 at 10:44
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Toto has nothing in common with prog (or almost nothing, what is the same). Listened many their albums for years. Nice AOR/pop-rock. Even seem them live ( last time -3-4 yrs ago in Budapest). NOTHING in common with prog, believe me!
Steve Lukather have some solo/ colaboartive records, which could be more related, but again, never too proggy.
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Posted By: Icarium
Date Posted: December 26 2009 at 12:57
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Probably not eclectic just aired the thought but as for their relation to Crossover prog they fit the Prog mould if you compare them to bands like Alan Parsons Project and ELO their 4 albums from 93 to falling in Between is clearly made other an Progressive aproach Kingdom of Desire have the eery, hounting sound over it, verry heavy at times, grate atmospheres, some instrument parts which shows off their techincal power as well as outstanding composisions and arrangements and the songs flow so well the trancendece between the Intro, verse chorus is so well done. it is less synth driven but the layers of sound on this album gives you the chills, the most metal sounding toto album, hard rock, heavy prog, jazz fuison and long constructed art rock (Wings of Time, the title track, Only You and How many times) Tambu is more organic sounding but all the songs on this album is made out of the new aproch for the bands ano 90s with more longer songs, not so melodic drivven more Organ and rhodes pianos, exploration of differents styles, Jazz/fusion, heavy metal, funk, even Hip hop, art rock and other styles the same grate arrangements. deeper lyrics, Mindefields is labeld as Neo prog on Wikipedia (but you dont need too relate to much on that you only need to listen to the album) many of the songs here is verry rich on texture, layerd sound, could be compared to bands like Marillion and Arena, some also more Prog Metal like Better World, its a 14 track long album and the album vere most styles of rock is presented, Falling in Between their last album starts with a bang with the splenid title track (which blends Dream Theater with more mideleastern, Daying on my Feet is Jazz/fusion track, Bottom of your Soul is art rock and the rest of the album follows this with technical and melodic music with rich istrumentation, solos, exprementation and varied in styles |
Posted By: Takeshi Kovacs
Date Posted: December 26 2009 at 18:55
I suggested After The Fire because their debut album was clearly a prime example of symphonic prog. I acknowledged that nothing else in their catalogue could be described as symphonic apart from that album. Is this a case of classifying an artist without hearing the album, Man Erg or do you deny Signs of Change is a symphonic prog album? As for Toto, I've only heard Hold The Line and Africa, and would say those two tracks are more AOR than prog. -------------  Open the gates of the city wide....
Check out my music taste: http://www.last.fm/user/TakeshiKovacs/ |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 09:50
I thought Toto was already in prog archives. Isn't this a Toto album?
 -------------
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Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 10:26
| If Toto, why not Boston? |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 13:10
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Boston certainly has had much support for inclusion in Prog-Related due to the first LP.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 13:31
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Well, if ASIA, Magnum and GTR are in PA, I don't see why TOTO would not be here. TOTO are much more divese and complex than ASIA. But there would be a lot more AOR artists to add : O'Ryan, Leroux, Life on mars, Heart...
------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 13:47
I don't know that Asia would be here were it not for the musicians involved -- ditto for GTR. I've hears some Magnum, but don't remember them. While consistency is important, it should be noted that the conditions for PR entry are more stringent now. I'm not sure that musically-speaking, any of those should be here. And I'm not sure when they were added, if the definition was in place then, as it states in Prog Related: "We specify the word MUSICAL because simple performance of a determined instrument in a Prog or mainstream band is not justification enough to include an artist, no matter how virtuoso he/she may be, Prog Archives has to evaluate their compositional work because the music is what determines the characteristics of a band or an artist." A lot of acts were added in the early days before the proper teams were in place that would not make the cut now. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 14:08
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Though I am not a fan of AOR/stadium rock/arena rock/pomp rock (call it whatever you like), I'd like to point out something that many people seem to overlook: if there is a subgenre of rock that deserved the tag of 'prog-related', this is it. Check what Edward Macan says on page 154 of his book Rocking the Classics (an essential read for any prog fan, even if I don't necessarily agree with everything he says): "...the American stadium rock style, which essentially involves a progressive rock/heavy metal fusion..." And on page 186: "Stadium rock bands especially admired progressive rock's virtuosity.... Indeed, certain stylistic elements of progressive rock were used over and over again by these bands until they were reduced to clichés: toccata-like organ and synthesizer solos, sudden juxtapositions of acoustic and electric sections, and three- or four-part vocal arrangements dominated by high tenors." If this doesn't clearly spell 'prog-related', I wonder what does. I'd also like to remind people that some bands included here, and considered fully prog by most (Kansas and Starcastle, for instance) are held by others to be AOR/pomp rock rather than prog. All of the above, anyway, has the main purpose of playing devil's advocate - I have never been overly concerned with what is added or not, and have never thrown tantrums over any addition. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 14:27
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I've read that quote before -- very good point, Raff. {Irrelevant, but what I've wished with prog-related (and particularly proto-prog which I consider a much more important category) was a diverse and reasonably well-balanced representation of bands/artists related to the various "progressive" movements listed in the archives, but this would involve a different way of approaching the categories. I think it could turn this into a much better research site. It's too mainstream-oriented, I feel.} ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: December 27 2009 at 14:37
100% in agreement with you, Greg - since I started reviewing for another site I've been exposed to a lot of music that would probably never find a place here, but which is absolutely worth exploring, as well as authentically progressive. However, I am afraid it's not going to happen in the short term at least. |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 11:14
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 02 2010 at 17:47
| Great group, but nothing to do with prog, even if Jeff Porcaro played in Gilmour's about face. Too few to be prog. |
Posted By: FusionKing
Date Posted: January 02 2010 at 17:48
| No. Toto in my opinion is an A.O.R. band. |