Have You Ever Used New Standard Tuning?
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Topic: Have You Ever Used New Standard Tuning?
Posted By: Xanthous
Subject: Have You Ever Used New Standard Tuning?
Date Posted: November 30 2009 at 18:38
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Today I felt like experimenting a little with my electric guitar after listening to some Miles Davis and I remembered hearing about Robert Fripp playing with an alternative tuning. I looked it up on the internet and found the tuning. It's CGDAEG. So after I found that, I went, and to the best of my ability, tuned my guitar to the New Standard Tuning. I've been strumming around with it and find it to be very atmospheric sounding. Now my question is, who else on ProgArchive has experimented with the NST?
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Replies:
Posted By: The Runaway
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 00:41
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I have. It takes a while until you find the chords but if you are a trained musician it only takes a short while and then you're good to go. I actually wrote a song using it, but the recording is somewhere on the computer and there's a load of where's it can go :D ------------- http://www.formspring.me/Aragorn224" rel="nofollow - Trendsetter win! The search for nonexistent perfection. |
Posted By: Pekka
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 00:49
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I have a bit (but can't vote in the poll for some reason), but very briefly a couple of times. One of my guitars is currently tuned that way, sometimes I pick it up and strum a bit, but I've never really actually sat down and explored its possibilities. Some day, some day. ------------- http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=42652" rel="nofollow - It's on PA! 
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Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 01:04
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I'm not willing to drop my bass to C
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 01:14
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My 6 string guitar is in E A D G B E and sometimes drop D but to be honest i barely play it. 7 string is tuned the same, just with a low B string, sometimes with the low B tuned down to drop A. Never felt the need to try NST to be honest |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 01:22
I keep my fretless bass in cello tuning, not quite New Standard, but close. 
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 02:30
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I have tried it for a short while and found it stimulating for monophonic ideas but completely alien when it comes to chordal passages etc
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Posted By: Vompatti
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 05:08
| I tried it once, but I prefer weird tunings like E-A-E-A-A-E. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 05:48
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I use DADGAD more.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 06:03
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Who was it who tuned their guitar to E-E-E-E-B-E? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 07:46
I read somewhere that the Glitter Band (yes really) used similar tunings to the one above. -------------
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mrcozdude wrote:Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 09:42
Probably Glenn Branca, or possibly one of the guys out of Sunn 0))).
I've messed around with DADF#AD, DADGAD and dropped D on acoustic guitars and there are lots of interesting possibilities, but I've never tried to get my head around NST - I'm not that musically literate and I don't think I'd be able to get my head around the chords. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: recaxa
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 09:46
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I now have a strat tuned in NST, it's like starting again, I've made in two evenings about 4 ideas for new songs. This guitar is going to remain with NST all the time, the chords inversions makes new colours... ------------- Glazz in London March 9 2010 - March 16 2010!! |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 10:19
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I didn't realize it was a standard tuning, I may try that tonight. I've been recently learning Mandolin, and thought to myself "Hey if I just made all my string in 5ths instead of 4ths and one Maj 3rd maybe I could transfer better." Obviously someone else thought of it along time ago. (Mando is tuned as the middle 4 strings in NST.)
Thanks for the tip.
My favorite alternate is FACACF
Most common are the usual drop D and double drop D (DADGBD) ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 16:59
| I just played with NST and the FACACF tuning that Negoba recommended. Good fun. |
Posted By: Catholic Flame
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 17:34
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I've never tried that but I did do some retuning using Charles Ives' ideas about using quarter tones in blocked chords (he had a 2 manual piano that where a quarter tone different). Some worked and some didn't. Lots of clashes in the overtone series. < id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" =""> ------------- “Great things are not accomplished by those who yield to trends and fads and popular opinion.” ~Jack Kerouac |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: December 01 2009 at 17:54
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I use in a lot of the songs with my band the drop D tuning... I use for some covers the double drop D which is nice and easy to play.. but the most wierd I have used in some covers is E-A-B-E-B-E. Very wierd chords but the poliphony helps a lot more... standard tuning in the 70% of my playing... ------------- |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 03:27
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C as the bass chord... most guitars can't play this correctly. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 04:06
It isn't a standard tuning. A standard tuning is a tuning with the 2nd and 3rd strings having an interval of a major 3rd between them and every other string has an interval of a 4th between them. When someone refers to a tuning as "B standard" what they just mean is that it's E standard tuned down 5 semi tones, or in the case of a 7 string it's just the usual factory tuning.
What do you mean by this? Guitars can quite comfortably be tuned down to an octave below C standard if you use the correct scale length and string gauges. Most 25.5 inch scale guitars will easily be able to get down to A standard with no issues, so C standard is not much of a stretch at all. My 7 string guitar is a 25.5 inch scale instrument and it handles drop A with no issues provided I use a 56 gauge string. |
Posted By: recaxa
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 06:01
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If you use custom strings set it's ok. I use 09 11 17 28 42 58. Trying to play a 42 in C IS quite difificult. ------------- Glazz in London March 9 2010 - March 16 2010!! |
Posted By: recaxa
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 06:09
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Well, it's an adaptation of the standard tuning of cellos and violins, and I'd like to see a violininst playing with this tuning on a guitar... I have this tuning on an strat and have no intonation issues, but the Low C Seems to be the limit (for a proper intonation). Maybe with heavier strings... ------------- Glazz in London March 9 2010 - March 16 2010!! |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 11:05
I meant that when I tune my E string down to C, it sounds awful. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 11:24
there's no enough tension on the string... you should chance the string man... Are you sure you want it that low...??? drop D is enough for me... ------------- |
Posted By: Abstrakt
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 13:05
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I don't think i've tried it, but i've been messing around with C-G-C-G-G-C and various D-tunings
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Posted By: LandofLein
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 16:29
| I never play guitar and have no clue how to tune it to that, but I am interested. How would I be able to find out how to do so? |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 16:37
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Thanks for the ideas on string guages. I guess that would fix my worries about bending my truss rod by over tightening the high end and over loosening the low. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 16:54
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yeah... it can disadjust your guitar and might need a callibration after... don't do this at home... the best thing to do is having each guitar with that different tunning... ------------- |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 17:01
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I use my own little tuning that goes a bit like: CGCGBE Basically one half of the guitar is drop C but with the shaping of drop D, and the other is standard. Basically this means i can hit really brutal riffs but still be able to play solos in scale shapes I'm used to. Disadvantages being obviously having to learn my full scales again, and learning solos can be a bitch. Incidently, didn't At The Gates tune all their strings a fourth lower than standard tuning? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 19:38
I would have assumed judging from the kinda of guitar player you were asking for in your "looking for a guitar player thread" you would be tuning below E standard anyway 
I'm a big fan of a 52 gauge for C, but it depends on what gauges you use tuned to E standard. I was always a 9-42 guy, so 52 for C makes sense, 54 for B and 56 for A. Try out anything between 52 to 60 and see what tension and feel works for you. f**king around with NST and getting the correct string gauges to work with it WILL need a set up for it to work at it's best, there is no way around it. Truss rod, intonation and possibly nut slots cut to a correct size or new nut entirely will absolutely be required. This is why I just don't bother with all these alternate tunings, partly because I only really own one guitar I play regularly and once you want to go back to your original tuning you're compromising because of the differences in nut slot sizes which affects tuning stability.
Not sure about At the Gates, but Carcass used 5 semi tones down, B standard though. Having a 7 string means I can chug along to Carcass when I feel like it, then put on some Opeth later and play that too These days, bands use anything from E standard all the way down to C below C standard. I've played an 8 string guitar before and it had a low F#, and honestly, I can't imagine C standard below C standard, because F# was already insanely low. In fact, the lowest I ever go is A anyway, and even then I don't normally play in drop A, usually just B standard 7 string tuning (B E A D G B E). |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 02 2009 at 20:13
Well just listen to Blinded By Fear and you'll definitely hear a low B in there. Whether the rest of the strings are tuned that way I don't know... And yeah, you're right about Carcass, and Meshuggah also have a very peculiar tuning (F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb correct me if I'm wrong). In their case though, it's very effective, with the guitar being more of a percussive instrument than a melodic one in metal. Although, I am surprised no one has mentioned the use of strange tuning in classical music. My classical guitar teacher has his 8 string arrange like thus: E E B D G C E F (the first four being copper wound, the second four being nylon). The stuff he plays though is almost impossible in standard tuning 6 string, even though he doesn't go below bottom E. And you are so lucky to find a 7 string. I've been looking for ages and they are either extortionate or not for sale  As for going bottom C? It's so they can make the guitar just as brutal as a piano  that's my hunch anyway  ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Crownley
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 16:40
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Hmm... This sounds interesting.
I've never used any kind of out the ordinary tuning, unless you consider Standard, Drop D, D Standard, Db, and C weird.
I need to try this when I upgrade equipment soon. ------------- It's true that tactless teeming totem poles turn tolerance to tired taboo. It's true that a bullet never knocks on the door; it's about to come crashing through. |
Posted By: Crownley
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 16:42
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Oh, and B standard. ------------- It's true that tactless teeming totem poles turn tolerance to tired taboo. It's true that a bullet never knocks on the door; it's about to come crashing through. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 19:18
I wouldn't call Meshuggah's tuning peculiar, it's just an 8 string tuned down one semi tone, no different than tuning a 6 string down 1 semi tone, just it has 2 extra strings. I'm not sure where you're looking, but I pretty much always see 7 strings going for reasonable prices, even bargains sometimes. I'm about to get a new 7 string later this month or early next year. It's 2899 AUD brand new, but I'm buying one used that has barely been played by it's owner and has 700 dollars worth of modifications on it, but he's selling it for only 1300 AUD. When I saw the price I knew I had to jump on the deal and I told him within a month the money would be sorted. You just gotta keep your eye out for those kinda deals, because while they aren't there every day, they do pop up from time to time. |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 20:11
I'll heed your advice. Where would I go about getting one? Ebay? And any particular model you recommend? ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: December 03 2009 at 23:32
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There is usually quite a few guitars on ebay for sure, although I prefer not to buy from there if I don't have to. My personal choice is always sevenstring.org (and the site metalguitarist.org is kinda a sister site to that). SS.org are VERY wary of low post count members when it comes to the buying sell and trading section of the forum. People have been ripped Not a problem for someone like myself who has been a member there since September 2008 and has an average post count per day of 13.5 and has around 6750 posts and has bought from members in the past, but certainly if you're a new member you have to prove yourself as trustworthy and honest as both a member and trader. They ask for "references" which will be links to other forums where you've bought, traded or sold, or ebay. Lots of great guys on SS.org and given I have more of an interest in guitars and metal than I do prog, you can imagine I love hanging out there. Metalguitarist.org is even MORE wary of newer members, but it's still a good place to get good deals. Good used guitars to look for would be Ibanez and Schecter. I bought an Ibanez RG 7421 from a guy at SS.org and love it. It costs me 250 USD, and the frets were in amazingly good condition for a 10 year old guitar, and once I put new pickups in there it had a tone that was good enough for a professional level instrument. The RG 7621, RG 7420 and RG 7620 are all great instruments too and can be had for good prices. You'll find most SS.org users are aware of the realistic market values for their guitars, so you're unlikely to be ripped off. |
Posted By: halabalushindigus
Date Posted: December 04 2009 at 01:55
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good luck tuning the open G to an A ------------- assume the power 1586/14.3 |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: December 04 2009 at 02:16
Did we just agree on something  |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: December 07 2009 at 11:43
| I remember having missed the opportunity of playing in a jazz/avant-garde/progressive/WTF project influenced by King Crimson by asking: "Who the hell had the idea of creating this new standard tuning???... Robert Fripp?... Ah... Er, okay... I guess you don't feel like hiring me now..." |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 07 2009 at 13:50
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Just out of curiosity, I still don't to cords for crap after all these years dabbling, for any of you who use the new turnings, do you think it would be easier for someone such as myself?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Jet Wesley
Date Posted: December 07 2009 at 19:58
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I think it is best to understand proper tuning before experimenting with other tunings. It is a great idea though. You can get some really nice and unique sounds with alternative tuning. Its also great from a creative, song-writing perspective. Sometimes when i break a couple of strings, ill mess around with the tuning and see what wierd and wonderful riffs develop. ------------- www.motiontheoryband.com |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 08 2009 at 07:15
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Ah yes, the old dammit I broke a string and I don't feel as much like re-stringing as I do playing so let's see what I can do thing.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Hanke666
Date Posted: December 19 2009 at 05:20
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I'm trying something close to NST now, CGDACF
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