Is 70's prog a nostalgia thing?
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Topic: Is 70's prog a nostalgia thing?
Posted By: rdtprog
Subject: Is 70's prog a nostalgia thing?
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 14:44
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I have some thoughts for many years about our evaluation of the quality of the 70's music big bands like Yes, Genesis, KC, VDGG etc.I want know if it's a sure thing that we can say that those bands made better music then today's bands or all the bands coming from the 80's and 90's. I have doubts about it. Is Genesis better then Marillion or IQ, for example? Could it be a nostalgia thing. Could it be that those who experience the 70's music at the time were discovering a new thing and by so were more open to appreciate the phenomenon? And today after 30 years of experience we could be bored by listening the music of the Neo Prog bands. If Genesis, KC or Yes didn't exist and all the golden age of the 70's, and we only knew bands like IQ, Marillion or Flower Kings, did we have the same opinions on those bands? Is it possible that we simply can't recreate our past experience everytime we are listening to bands of today or coming from the 80's and 90's? Or, it simply that the music of that area (70's) was better. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Replies:
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 14:59
I'm 22 and I say that music from the 70s/80s is, in large, better than what we get today. So no. 
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:04
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The enjoyment of 70's music is partially a nostalgia thing for me (I also love 60's music though I wasn't alive in that decade, but I was exposed to it as a child -- even if not the particular music I listen to from that time), but I like many post 70's bands (I don't care for Neo Prog or most modern symph). For my tastes, bands such as Marillion, IQ, or The Flower Kings are not as good as the classic ones you mentioned (particularly KC and VdGG), but it's not because they came later that I don't like them. For post 70's music, most of what I listen to is RIO/ Avant oriented music. I feel that there are many modern bands in the archives that surpass the "quality" of a great many classic era bands, but not those post classic era ones you listed -- I don't find them that adventurous or interesting. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Angel of Death
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:37
| I don't think the greats of the 70s were any better than the greats of today. However the number of bands has increased so dramatically, that it's much easier to find bands that just don't do anything spectacular, than to find something that amazes. There's much more wading through the garbage these days, I believe. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:48
This. (and I'm 16)
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King By-Tor wrote:Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:50
That's what i think too. There's so much music that we have tough times to find good and original music. Like Logan says, maybe it's better to discover some new kind of prog to satisfy our taste. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:52
That (and I'm 21). |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:55
Yup. And not just a little better. A lot better. Why? The analysis doesn't concern me, only the result. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition |
Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:55
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I don't care when it's made as long as I like it. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 15:59
That's okay, but that's not the question.
 The OP is asking wheter you consider that you like and consider better the 70s bands because there's a nostalgia feel or not.
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:01
No nostalgia for me, I just like a lot of 60's/70's music more. I never think of when it was made, or who made it first, except maybe with Zeuhl. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:03
Good, that was what you had to answer.
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Posted By: A Person
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:04
I was trying to imply it, but I guess typing it out is better.  |
Posted By: UndercoverBoy
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:05
This (and I'm 14)
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:12
| Yeah, 70's prog was actually progressive, now they're attempting to fit the mold made by said prog bands. Which is the opposite of progression. |
Posted By: javier0889
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:12
| If listening to 70's music is nostalgia, then listening to Beethoven must be necrophilia... or something like that, hahahha |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:13
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The 60's and 70's were an amazing time for innovation in rock-based music (one could say the 50's too of course). There was a spirit of experimentation and breaking genre confines that I don't think we find to the same extent, generally, today. I feel like far too many modern bands are just emulating typical Prog-convention rather than being unconventional. Instead of progressive music, we commonly find regression (what I call gorp) -- looking backwards rather than forwards. And too many just incorporate classic Prog conventions with an AOR-type sound for my tastes. A lot of it so predictable and one hears the Prog band influence on the sleeves too much. I think there are many great bands today, but not many innovative ones (certainly not ones that achieve popularity even in prog circles). There's a lot of prog cliche, and back in the day when Prog was being created, it wasn't yet cliché (though there were many poor imitators "even in the golden age". I think a band like Marillion rather dumbed down Prog (I don't mean to be insulting), but it lifted Prog traits (especially from Genesis) while making music that was deliberately commercial-sounding (yes, bands such as Genesis and Yes have done it a lot too). I don't like melodic rock (AOR) type music much, nor a lot of pop music, and I don't think it blended well or has aged as timelessly or gracefully as classic bands music from the classic period. Rock was not progressed (expanding the possibilities of what rock music can be and freeing itself from convention) nearly so much past the golden age (oh, there are various more experimental artists/ band who have, but generally speaking). ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:14
I am 18 and I agree with the previous post! + you can't compare Genesis to the bunch of Genesis imitators that is the Neo-Prog genre.... On the other hand if Genesis (or Yes, Gentle Giant, etc.) didn't exist I would be a huge Marillion (or Starcastle, Yezda Urfa, etc.) fan...but just because there is nothing better ------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com) 
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:15
My question is a reflexive thought on the subject of our capacity to judge the quality of music by band's comparaison through the years. Maybe, it's a way to find out that we have to learn to appreciate the music in this present time without any comparaison to the past music, if it's possible.
------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:19
------------- 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:20
I wouldn't call the entire Neo-Prog genre imitators of Genesis, Marillion, IQ and Pendragon which are the most popular ones, indeed have a big Genesis influence, but also from Floyd and from the 80's pop(synths) style, besides I don't they've ever really imitated the style of Genesis in the composition aspects, with very few exceptions(eg: Harvest of Souls).
I really don't think I would like Marillion, Pendragon, etc as much as I love Genesis, Floyd, etc, if the latter didn't existed. There's even a chance I wouldn't be interested in Prog if only for the existence of 80's prog forward, which is a surreal thing. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:20
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We're always going to compare to what we know (consciously, semi-consciously, or sub-consciously) but that doesn't mean we can't truly appreciate music of the present time.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:50
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You started out by asking about 70's music and is it a case of nostalgia if we listen now. Then you compared some bands which turns the question into "do you like Genesis or Marillion better..." I'll stay away from the band comparisons....because there are 10 million posts like that in the PA.
My 2 centavos:
If you are one of us that actually experienced the music of the 70's when it first came out...then yes for me right now a lot of it is due to nostalgia that I continue to listen to that era of music.....Obviously because I think it is good music. I also think that was the height of "progressive" rock so the music is very memorable to me....It always will be...but I am not stuck in that era at all.
Nostalgic versus good music as a reason why you listen to that era may not be good comparison. I mean I will listen to Christmas music made in the 50's and 60's' because its nostalgic, for sure I don't listen to it because its good music.....but what nostalgic means to me is "good memories".
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 16:53
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I listen to the 60 ,70's music because i like them a lot.
thanks -------------  |
Posted By: PopLies
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:24
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I believe this was already brought up... but I think that music from the '70s is considered better because there is a lot more bands around today, and unfortunately not all of them are good. So the "bad bands" get a lot of attention that the "good bands" don't. I don't think it has much to do with nostalgia. |
Posted By: Evan
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:30
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one factor too often overlooked is that vinyl records maxing out at a little over 40 minutes means built-in quality control. |
Posted By: Tsevir Leirbag
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:33
NOT THIS!
By the way I'm fifteen. There were excellent bands, but there still are! Some are even better than those who were in the seventies.
As Greg said, just take (for exemple) avant-progressive or musique actuelle. ------------- Les mains, les pieds balancés Sur tant de mers, tant de planchers, Un marin mort, Il dormira - Paul Éluard |
Posted By: progpositivity
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:42
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Prog fans can be a cognitively dissonant, enigmatic bunch of music enthusiasts. Philosophically we value creativity and *progress*... In practice, however, many of us love 70's style Moog and Hammond sounds, and traditional ...
If we are really honest, many of us prog fans *bristle* at some of the "new" sounds from technology because we associate them so strongly with "hip-hop" or "rap" or any other number of modern pop genres. But theoretically, there should be great potential in exploring these new sounds in a proggie setting. It is being done. But I suspect that many of us "tune out" these type songs before even giving them much chance to reveal their merit.
Now, I really enjoy bands like Black Bonzo and Presto Ballet - so I'm not *hating* on everything retro. Those bands love the classic music and they do an admirably *good* job of creating something new within that context. Even so, they are coloring "well within the lines" of what nostalgic Prog Fans expect.
Some of today's most Progressive music may get ignored by some of us Proggers if we aren't careful... ------------- Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7! http://www.progpositivity.com |
Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 17:51
I'm 17 and do I even need to say it? except for metal, metal is getting better |
Posted By: FusionKing
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 18:11
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I'd say some of the most important and impressive bands are 70's bands. However I also have a great respect for 60's psychedelia, 80's glam, thrash and AOR and 90's grunge and jam bands. So I don't feel that the music of other decades was any less thoughtful, I just think that the 70's was a natural peak for rock as it had just come of age as a genre. Much of 90's metal and various rock after 2000 I will admit seems very desperate and stale overall, but what is popular now says nothing about the lesser known or less appreciated acts like Astra, Diagonal, Joe Bonemassa, Blood Ceremony...even some of the folkie acts like Newton Faulkner and Fleet Foxes present a ray of hope for the most modern releases. And I'm 18. ------------- "Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself" - Sartre |
Posted By: progpositivity
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 18:13
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I will echo the statements about the sheer *volume* of music competing for our time and attention these days. It can tend to skew our perception toward a certain "lameness of today" verses the "greatness of yesteryear". Basically, we are comparing a semi-random selection of today's creative output, and comparing it against the most highly esteemed output of an entire decade (in this case the 1970's). Very much a case of comparing apples with oranges.
Think about it. A multitude of 70's rock music fans culled through tons of bands and songs. Progressive minded rock music fans formed favorites and passed those favorites on to the following decades of music fans. Genesis, Tull, Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, Frank Zappa ... These bands connected with large art-rock, symphonic rock, jazz-rock, prog-rock audiences - and not without reason.
No doubt, some very good bands went unrecognized at the time. But not very many prog bands got "handed down" to the next generation without some real and legitimate point of *connection* with a significant group of people.
Fast forward to today. Randomly grab any 7 self-described "progressive rock" bands from MySpace pages today. Mathematically speaking, what are the *odds* that one of those will be of the caliber to stand next to Genesis, Tull, Yes, King Crimson, Gentle Giant, ELP, or Frank Zappa? Very low. They may be good and certainly worth enjoying. But the odds that they will be in the same league with time honored music heroes of the 70's? Not very likely.
Think of it this way. What if we randomly grab a 1970's art-symph-electronic-or progrocker from the "pool"? The odds are very similar that this randomly selected 1970's prog band won't be of the caliber to stand up next to the GIANTS of Prog either.
Interestingly enough, we may still have an affinity with the randomly selected 70's band that we don't have with today's new music due to the instrumentation striking a certain nostalgic "chord" that is more harmonious with our musical appreciation than the scratching and tweedles of today's scene. Which brings us full circle back to your incisive question about nostalgia.
"You know. They just don't make 'em like they used to..." ------------- Positively the best Prog and Fusion 24/7! http://www.progpositivity.com |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 18:48
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A lot of good comments were posted here. My conclusion is that maybe the nostalgia thing is not a bad thing in itself because, it pushes us to listening to more new music trying to capture the essence of the best 70's music we loved, and even if we don't find the same excitement as we have when we were discovering our first big band (it's like our first love...) we keep enjoying listening to the music and sharing our passion with the community.
------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 19:35
 ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 20:08
Your right on, I probably would be a primary fan of AOR and 80s pop, of which I enjoy the prog-related variety in real life, but in such a alternate universe I would probably have to make due with. Marillion is very good, IQ is okay... these two bands alone are not going replace the HUGE impact 70s Prog has had on my life. As for what others have said, I agree, 70s is better and the bands had a healthier attitude and more complex philosophy than modern bands - and I'm 22, so despite parental influence, I am less likely to seem biased than a 58 year old or whatever. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 21:33
| 70's music is of a higher quality than what came before or after it, period. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 21:38
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when i said 70's music above, i was referring to more popular types, like rock or jazz as far as classical music recordings go, i feel the best ones were made before 1950, in what is known as the "historical period" |
Posted By: Ethos
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 21:49
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Let me put it this way: Is Beethoven, Bach, Mozart a nostalgia thing? What a ridiculous concept! The key elements for me are: 1. How does it make me feel 2. Structure of the music 3. Originality 4. Complexity It's the music, not the period, period! IT DOESN'T MATTER WHEN IT WAS MADE! ------------- "As sure as Eggs is Eggs." |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 22:02
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Old fart checking in. I grew up with the stuff.
Nostalgia is me listening to something like The Beach Boys "I Get Around" or "Barbara Ann". It takes me back to the old days, the innocence of being a kid listening to that music. Or seeing my friend's band play a cover of The Animals "We Gotta Get Out of This Place" one summer, down on the college campus. These are all decent songs, by the way. But it's probably nostalgia that I consider them to be so.
Nostalgia is not me listening to something like Fragile or Tarkus or Wish You Were Here. The really good albums from the '60s and '70s tend to not remind me of the old days. They still stand in their own right. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: presdoug
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 22:05
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Posted By: Triceratopsoil
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 22:05
| the nostalgia argument is ruled out by how kickass Beardfish's Destined Solitaire is |
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 22:43
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A plain no - the music was better back then. It was a lot more daring. There are two factors which are responsible for this. 1) Back in the late 60s and early 70s there weren't that many bands around, and the few record companies that were around almost took on any band that played rock music and let them do whatever they wanted (often swindling them in their contracts, but that's another sad matter). The whole rock music industry was still in the build-up, and they were desperately in need of bands. And they let them more or less play whatever they wanted, just as long as they got an album out of the band. As a result many albums of that time were a lot more daring than today's albums. There are exceptions, but it can be said as a general rule of thumbs. 2) Modern production. Back in the late 60s and early 70s bands were glad when they got some studio time , and they definitely did not have the luxury to record a song several times; it was "first take or nothing". Today's production may be more perfect, but the spontaneity is gone; it all sounds sterile somehow, even music by my favourite artists. And music is a lot about spontaneity (which is why I usually prefer live albums to studio albums). Just read the liner notes of Dave Stewart on the only album of Arzachel or the biography of Amon Düül 2 or even the Genesis book by Armando Gallo and of course the VdGG book, and you will know what I am talking about. There are some exceptions, but interestingly most of them come from low budget productions, which seems to confirm what I say. And interestingly there is often at least one "oldtimer" involved in these exceptions. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 23:03
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I don't believe so. I think about some of the '70s bands and albums that made a strong impact on me - stuff like Yes, Genesis, Van Der Graaf Generator, Gentle Giant, and King Crimson (okay, so all the big bands, sue me ). Each of these bands (from what I've heard, which is most of the '70s stuff by all these bands except KC who I have yet to investigate) managed to write music that is deep, thoughtful, sounds good, and was adventurous. And, because they were all around in '70 before there was such a thing as prog, there is something special about knowing that they weren't trying to be someone else, but truly growing their own sound. I've heard a lot more modern bands and few have had the overall same level of awesomeness to me. While there are tons of bands that I love that are modern (Moon Safari, Karda Estra, Nemo, Flower Kings, etc...), there are very few that have effected me on as many planes as the aforementioned bands. The only modern band that immediately springs to mind is Beardfish ... as has been mentioned previously in this thread, Destined Solitaire is a remarkable example of being adventurous, sounding great, having a unique sound, etc. That being said, there are a lot of '70s bands I've listened to that haven't become legendary in my mind, but sit on a similar level as the above mentioned modern bands...Camel, Caravan, Le Orme, ELP, and Pink Floyd to name a few. So being from the '70s does not automatically make a band better than the moderns. Anyways, back onto the topic proper, no, the '70s have nothing to do with nostalgia, at least not for me.
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Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 23:08
Maybe its because music has been on regressive mode ever since... |
Posted By: Dominic
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 23:21
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I say it's nostalgia, or more it's all about what style of music appeals to you most. Certain types of prog/music were more prevalent in the 70's, and possibly alot of the really creative people don't feel like repeating history. Sure no one is doing 70's King Crimson as well as they did, or 70's Mahavishu Orchestra; yet, i don't believe any band in the 70's did Mogwai or The Samuel Jackson Five as well as those bands It's seems to me that alot folks that despise all modern prog rock, simply aren't putting alot of effort into exploring new genuine styles of prog rock. Anyways, we've all experienced rehashes of this same discussion on these boards may times before, so i'll stop now. ------------- 
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 23:35
I would add something, the system of the labels in the 60's and 70's encouraged quality and long lasting artists, because the labels were managed by the owners or professional musical executives. Take Tony Stratton Smith, the guy owned Charisma Records, and he personally took the risk with an unknown band like Genesis who came from releasing From Genesis to the Revelation that sold probably a couple hundred albums and all their previous experience was the school. He saw something in Gabriel and Banks and said, hey this guys are artists and will develop. That's not all, he hired Atomic Rooster, VDGG and Lindisfarme, bands that few labels would had invested in, because he knew he owned Charisma and wanted artists that would stay with him years, even if they never sold millions. Richard Branson recruited a 19 years old kid who played all the instruments and nobody knew as Mike Oldfield, he could had hired any pre-disco musician who sold 2 million copies of one album and then vanish, but he wanted his label to grow and for that he required artists that could release one or two good albums a year for decades if possible. Today the labels are managed by young executives who are judged by results, if they don't hire singer or rapper who sells at least a couple million albums, they will be fired, and for this reason this semi professional executive doesn't care for real artists, just somebody who sells a lot of money with little investment in a short time. This executive doesn't own the label, so if he recruits a one hit wonder, it's OK for him; he's paid, probably receives a bonus and if the artist vanishes, he looses nothing, if the label goes on bankruptcy, he just looks for another job with a lot of money in his pocket and with one N° 1 song or album in his resume. Only people who care for a label, will care to recruit real artists and see the label grow, a young (or old) executive who gets paid for fast success doesn't care if the label grows, because he's only hired and could be working anywhere else in weeks. Iván. ------------- 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: April 22 2010 at 23:41
| ^ you can add Ahmet Ertegun to that list |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 00:17
As a fact Ahmet was responsible of the Atlantic Policy of hiring adventurous artists like Yes, Led Zeppelin, etc. You can add Jerry Moss too, he took personal interest in the artists A&M hired (Like Rick Wakeman). It was another era and another system. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 01:58
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I love the late 60s to late-70s era in music more than any other.
There's plenty of modern music I enjoy but the 70s prog bands were
special because there was a genuine sense of excitement and adventure
about what they were doing. It had never been done before and they were
genuinely breaking down musical barriers. Whatever the quality of the
music being produced today it doesn't have that same sense of
iconoclasm or originality. I also agree with the previous comment about the old 40 minute vinyl format exercising quality control, whereas some bands today seem to spread their ideas too thinly. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 03:00
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This is a very difficult question. Having been in my teens when Prog started and being an ardent follower since then, it'd be difficult not to admit that nostalgia plays a great role. On the other hand, admitting it would be akin to confessing that my perception of later Prog is clouded, which I don't think it is, at least not substantially. To my way of thinking, I'd say that the 70s and the 00's are on an equal level with a big slump inbetween. But there are two big differences, and they're entirely personal: 1) Naturally I've had a few decades more time to become intimately aquainted with the 'classics' and familiarity breeds comfort. 2) The nostalgia connected doesn't only apply to this intimate aquaintance with the music, but to an equally large degree to the memory I have of friends long lost contact with, that I shared this music with and generally shared happy times with many years ago. How can anyone escape such nostalgia (and would anyone want to, if the memories are good)? I suppose that for these reasons I will always regard the music of Floyd, KC, Genesis, Gentle Giant, and Yes with a fondness I could never muster with, say, Porcupine Tree and others, although I have to admit that their music, creativity, and especially technical prowess seems to surpass or at least be on a par with these. Then again, this means that none of the old bands would possibly be able to produce any new recording that I'd regard with the same fondness as the now 35 or 40 year old classic recordings. They can't win. Give me another 40 years, and I'll not be able to distinguish the new classics from the old classics on this level. I feel a bit of a twit now, but at least I'm able to say that I didn't stop in the 70s and I love a lot of new artists's music, but new music will never be able to reach me as much through no fault of its own. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 03:24
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Nostalgia is having warmth feelings of a gone time you witnessed. I did not witness a thing of the seventies prog movement (I'm 21) and therefore my focus on '70 prog can't be nostalgia.
Having that said, I do think the historical element of the seventies prog gives it some extra magical vibe. It makes it sound more special then the new Porcupine Tree record, who I saw playing a little while ago. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 04:48
Great post! Nostalgia also comes into my listening, and makes me remember the early 90s when classic rock was huge in Eastern Europe, and makes me imagine the 60/70s (that's because I wasn't there, I'm too young). However, when I want to have a very intense musical experience, nostalgia doesn't come into play no matter the release date of the record. In any genre of music, the "post-classic" bands will be "good" (sometimes even as good) but never "great" as the "classic" bands were. It's natural. |
Posted By: Qboyy007
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 06:14
I'm 19 and I despise just about every "classic" 70's prog band except for VDGG, KC and Yes. ------------- Hay Budday |
Posted By: bsms810
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 13:24
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Im 26, i came to genesis (early) a cupla years back and it was magical, I rarely have that experience with modern music (Opeth being a notable exception). For me it is getting rarer and rarer to get that magical experience. So yeah I do think there is something special about some of those 70s bands ------------- 'when was the last time you had a girlfriend?' 'I dont look at it as when, I look at it as who...and why' - David Brent |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 16:33
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First of all, I grew up in the 70's and for people of my generation I personally feel that there's a component related purely to age, at least in my case. My 40-plus brain simply does not have the receptiveness anymore as it had when I was 14. Back then I would listen to an album a few times and I would quickly be able to sing every single note of every instrument, I knew all the lyrics by heart even if english was not my language. They really soaked in me easily. Even today after 30-35 years I retain in my brain nearly every detail of the great classics which I grew up with in the 70's. I can listen to The Lamb or Tarkus or In the Court Of and they are literally still inside me, as if they were interwoven in my own brain fabric.
Today when I listen to a new album I find it much harder to fully digest and retain it my memory in as much detail, partly because I can not dedicate as much time to music as when I was a kid, and also because my brain is too busy with too many other issues of the adult life. I certainly enjoy many modern bands and albums but I simply can not integrate them so intimately in my brain anymore, they somehow feel more like "exterior experiences" compared to the "interior ones" of listening to the classics which I learnt in my teen years.
Having said that, I still honestly believe that for some reason the 70's produced unparalleled inspiration. There are great bands nowadays but I hardly find compositions so brilliant as let's say, Can Utility and the Coastliners, The Return of the Giant Hogweed, The Barbarian, 20th Century Schizoid Man, Long Distance Runaround, The Fairy Feller's Master Stroke, Broadway Melody of 1974 or so many others. They were and still are simply so bizarre, original and different, and yet at the same time so inspired, pleasant and with that feeling of "being so close to true beauty and perfection". It was not just a matter of experimentation, complexity per se or progressivity. It was really a wave of super-high creativity and inspiration, coupled in many cases with impressive interpretation performance. Bands can be really innovative and interesting today, but rarely have flashes of inspiration as high as those which happened in the 70's.
Possibly the drugs back then were of better quality too
Nostalgia may play a small role but generally speaking I think there was something about that music that has not been repeated anymore in such a consistent way.
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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 18:20
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I think the 70's had more good prog, because it was something new and people were inspired to make it back then. I am 20 so it can't be nostalgia for me. Nostalgia is my parents putting on a Jackson Browne record. However I do think some modern prog is better than the vast majority of old prog. There are still good bands playing in the style of "symphonic, eclectic, RIO" etc. which has come to be termed "Progressive Rock", but the thing is these styles aren't really progressive anymore (though bands can still be original within these styles), so it's harder to find *inspired* bands playing this stuff. Hence, there are way more bands, but the proportion of good to bad, is far in the 70's favor. Though there were plenty of godawful 70's prog bands.
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Posted By: who-knows-it's-prog
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 19:19
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For me nostalgia is not the music you like (70's Prog for me), but it is a particular song that brings back memories of a specific event, girlfriend, work etc. I am an old fart and with the exception of NWOBHM and The Manic Street Preachers and prog, i have absolutely nothing to do with music post 1980. Sad? Maybe but i know what i like and i won't change now.
However prog was best in the 60's/70's without a doubt, no dubioty or ambiguity......prog in the 60's/70's was real prog....today...well look at the posts on here still plenty of debate, i'll leave it there. ------------- If it's not prog, it's not prog, regardless. |
Posted By: peart_lee_lifeson
Date Posted: April 23 2010 at 23:02
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Lately, I would have to say that overall, the 70's had more interesting music than today even though I have basically just touched the surface of 70's prog. Though, this opinion probably changes after every few albums I listen to. Let me raise another question. If many of the big 70's prog bands never existed, would there even be a Marillion, Flower Kings, or any of the other previously mentioned bands? |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 04:06
What you say may have some effect, indeed we have retained as "masters from the 70's" only the best of those years, the ones who have stood the test of time.
But it is not the real explanation. Think about the period 70-75 and think how many masterpiece albums came out in those 5 years. Now think about the periods 90-95 or 95-2000. Already 10 to 15 years have passed so we should also have had time enough to filter the output of those periods and tell which bands / albums have stood the test of time too.
I bet the number of masterbands or masterpieces came out in a 90's 5-year period do not reach even 1/10th as compared to the period 70-75.
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Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 04:41
-------------  Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 05:46
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I don't think it's nostalgia. It's certainly an effect of memory and time, and the filtering of the music so that only the good and the great are remembered and passed on to the next generation. There was a lot of awful music in the 60s and 70s that people are happy to ignore/fail to remember/block out of their subconscious and in forty years time the same filtering will apply to bands of today.
------------- What? |
Posted By: boo boo
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 05:47
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One thing I dispise is when people throw around the word "dated", it's a stupid word.
There's nothing wrong with music being distinctly of it's time. The Beatles made music that was distinctly of it's time, does that mean it has no appeal 40 years later? Of course not.
Music doesnt have an expiration date, I dunno where people get that idea from.
Music is music, I don't care what decade it's from. A lot of the hipsters these days really grate on my nerves, they write off just about everything from the 70s that isn't punk, glam or krautrock. On the other side, I hate it when the older folks discriminate against all modern music.
I remember reading this comment in response to the story of Flaming Lips covering Pink Floyd's DSOTM and it was some idiot who called Flaming Lips an "example of how bands today have no originality and to hide their lack of talent they have to cover the classics to make some quick cash".
UGGGGGGGGGH
What a dope. It's like he just heard about this story because he googles the name Pink Floyd at least once a day, found out that some band has the audacity to cover one of the classics and goes on a frothing mouth rampage about a band he most likely hasn't even heard.
I don't agree with the accessment that nothing new compares to the music of the 70s, though the 70s is my favorite decade easily.
I'd say bands like Radiohead, Flaming Lips and Porcupine Tree are worthy successors to King Crimson, Yes and Pink Floyd.
I'd also rate Bjork, My Morning Jacket, Wilco, Josh Homme, The White Stripes, The Mars Volta, Sigur Ros, New Pornographers, Madlib, Buckethead, Ritual, Battles, Mastodon, Gorillaz, Acid Mothers Temple, Boris, Arcade Fire, Melt Banana, Beardfish, Muse and Frost* among the best contemporary music acts.
I'm sure not everyone agrees with those but whatev. It's really fustrating to try and compare different generations of music. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs/?chartstyle=LastfmSuicjdeGirls" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 07:20
Maybe i am one of the few people who would disagree with this affirmation. I think that IQ have created their own sound despite the Genesis influence. I have heard a lot of "Genesis imitator" and IQ is one top of them if they can be class in the Genesis Imitator category. Phil Collins have doubts him self in a interview a couple of decades ago when someone ask him if he thought that Marillion was better than Genesis. But let's put aside the better or not comparaison and let's say that i think that it's enjoyable to listen to new bands that show a 70's influence in their music. That is a testimony to the greateness of those bands. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 08:04
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I think the problem is more with the melodic variety of prog...or R&B for that matter, most rock/pop genres, as far as I can tell (except, the alt rock side can be both melodically great and adventurous). Even considering that Magma looms large in the 70s, I would say I am not really dissatisfied at all with what new or 80s avant prog I have heard (precious little, admittedly), indeed I love it. The problem is when you stack up Genesis or Yes to bands like Flower Kings. Or Radiohead to Flower Kings, but that's again more my preference. I find the melodic side of modern prog really dull, made worse that the songs have to be padded and dragged till they reach a suitably epic length. Particularly, in the case of Genesis, they weren't just melodic and accessible (they seem to get frequently dubbed as such these days!), their structures were often very interesting and Hackett did a lot of interesting and ahead-of-its-time stuff on guitar...like the tapping on Hogweed. Interesting not because it's seven years before Eruption but because of the musical context he chose. Today's melodic prog bands are often very technically adept but this doesn't seem to translate into adventurous music. So...no, I don't think liking 70s music is a nostalgia thing at all...I would go so far as to suggest that if you are actually persuaded that people rating Genesis or Yes highly is purely a nostalgia thing, then maybe you badly want to like new bands more than old bands. I don't distinguish between them at all in that respect, beyond the context of the period...I mean, there's more alternative rock around these days, in the 70s it used to be blues based, so on and so forth. I would readily place OK Computer in a list of my favourite rock (including prog) albums but can't think of a single modern melodic prog album that I like anywhere near that much. |
Posted By: American Khatru
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 08:08
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^ Well, as happens in here, I was talking imo. I'll say this for IQ, those first few albums, imo, were tough for me to take seriously - but after that they stopped almost quoting Genesis songs (and Yes's Gates and I don't have space to say what else) and got to their own sound, a sound influenced by great music (whatever my opinion might be on the results). So, "IQ have created their own sound despite the Genesis influence", yes, though perhaps 'in spite of' isn't entirely accurate. There's some 'because of' too, if you will; it must have been difficult and educational to choose that great band for an ideal.
------------- Why must my spell-checker continually underline the word "prog"? |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 08:26
I didn't say that i like more the new bands than the old bands. I just like both erea and that, its just difficult for me to say that some of the 70's bands are better than some of the best bands of today. It's another time, another experience with my own history and the new music context where we are today, with more music, more styles. It is more difficult for new bands to stand out today compare to the 70's. The 70's experience was for me different, more exciting. I am not sure that the cause was totally link to the superior quality of all those 70's bands, but also to the social and cultural context of that time mixed with my discovery of a new kind of music; the progressive rock. ------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 10:07
I don't think, other than people like WalterDigsTunes, anybody is saying ALL 70s bands are better than ALL modern bands. But it does sound unreasonable to me to say that the consensus that Genesis is a better band than Pendagron is on account of reasons other than the music itself. As somebody else put it, I wasn't born to witness either the 70s or the 80s and it's possible that if I hadn't discovered prog, I may have never taken interest in IQ. But the first time I heard Firth of the fifth, one of my first prog songs, I went, "Wow, this is amazing, this is quite like nothing I have heard before. " And so it went on and on...there was much fantastic musical exploration in the 70s which is missing in the newer melodic prog bands. It seems they emphasise more the melodic and accessible nature of say Genesis rather than their adventurousness. I simply cannot think of any 80s onwards melodic prog rock album that packs a punch the way Lamb Lies Down on Broadway does...not even any of Marillion's albums, and I love Marillion. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 12:14
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I'm 45 now, and I am still trying to avoid falling into the easy trap of assuming that all was right in the "old days" and all is crap now. It was never true and I refuse to become a grumpy old man denigrating all that is new. I started listening to Yes in 1977 - that's what turned me onto prog in the first place. Genesis soon followed, with Floyd, Crimson, VDGG, and the rest of those incredible bands of that era. I still listen to my 70's collection now. I bow to no one in my love of that era. But, equally, what this site, more than anything else, should teach us is that there is still a wealth of great talent and music out there. In fact, I would argue that modern prog bands have it a little harder these days, what with the predominence of processed music and reality TV & etc. I really do think that we live in exciting times, what with the opportunities that new technology brings us, and the fact that we still have some great new bands creating exciting and challenging music. So, yes the love for the 70's can easily be a nostalgic thing. We just need to avoid falling into the trap of believing that it was the be all and end all. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 14:26
If we're talking prog, then this is correct, but if we're talking in general, I don't think so. Human creativity does not just suddenly drop down from time to time. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 14:34
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Personally, I believe that, if anything, music is just as good now as it ever was in the 70s---if not more. There are tons of innovative, imaginative, and enjoyable artists that have been releasing modern music, especially in the realms of electronic music. I'm not sure how much nostalgia has in people's evaluations of music though. I would say, similarly to Dean on the previous page, that there is good and bad music pretty much throughout every decade. ------------- 
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Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 22:31
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I am listening to Joe Walsh's Barnstorm album as I type this (yeah wrong forum). It certainly brings me back to a time long forgotten, those Rocky Mountain highs of my youth, living at literally 6800 ft...not a lot of oxygen up there. It's also very intelligent, and has many proggy or at least spacy moments (back then there was not much diffentientation...) in spite of the overall country-rock feel, and as well as a bitchin' version of Turn To Stone. I don't know, the synth washes drag me in. I hear the great songs, and make no mistake they are great songs..mama says be careful. They still speak to me, am I senile, or are they special? Is it nostalgia, or am I longing for another shot at my misspent youth? I don't know. I suppose it's nostalgia. I hear Birdcall Morning. Takes me back to that Rocky Mountain high, not gonna find it here in the city. Coming down.. to see you. Now that I think about it, that's nostagia. Times lost that will never be recovered.
At the time, I was more than likely listening to Lizard. No such remembrances of Lizard.
That would be the difference.
------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: jammun
Date Posted: April 24 2010 at 23:26
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To further the discussion, as I type this, I am now listening to The Crazy World of Arthur Brown, that one with the psychedelic cover, the one with Fire. Been listening to this one for hmm 40 years. I have no fond reminiscenses to relate w/r/t this album. It just is. Crane's organ. Why is it so cold out here? That's what he sez. There's your difference. ------------- Can you tell me where we're headin'? Lincoln County Road or Armageddon. |
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 00:56
You can be nostalgic for a time that you didn't exist. Maybe there's a better word for it than nostalgia, but some people are definitely caught up in the mythos of the '60s and '70s, and that has to color their perceptions about music. I'd basically agree with dean. I think the depth of change in the music industry is overrated as well. Ivan was talking about Charisma taking a chance, but there are more than enough independent labels these days to fill the void left by them, so it's not a fair comparison. Any difference is in how the majors are run, and I'll concede that there are no Ornette Colemans on Atlantic anymore. But there's k-os and Porcupine Tree, which may be close enough. And if it's not, there are so many other outlets for your music these days! ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: BaldJean
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 04:40
there is still a lot of excellent music out there; I agree to that. but not necessarily in prog. most of the newer albums just bore me, including Porcupine Tree. a band which is excellent but never gets mentioned by anyone are The Red Masque. now that is fresh prog, in my opinion -------------  A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 05:28
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Yes there is still good music these days, and for me i find enough bands to like in the prog world to keep me busy for a long time. But i have to listen to a variety of prog to fulfil my needs. I am just starting now to appreciate some avant-garde stuff like Univers Zero and Present. That brings something refreshing in my usual symphonic listening.
------------- Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness. Emile M. Cioran |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 05:51
(If I only listened to music that was released before I was born my record collection would be nothing but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Samuel_Hoffman - Samuel Hoffman and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yma_Sumac - Yma Sumac albums)
I'm now 53. Yesterday I placed a pre-order with Burning Shed for the new Anathema album, We're Here Because We're Here - on a relative scale I am as excited and full of the same boyish level of anticipation about getting that as I was with buying Animals or Relayer back in the day. Even if it doesn't live up to expectiations, and after a 7 year wait it's going to be a tough one, it's still going to be a fine album (because Steven Wilson says it is
). Already this year Orphaned Land's The Way Of The OrwarriOR has impressed me greatly.I still get a buzz from new music. It just has to try a little harder to really impress me, but it does. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 06:05
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I find the '70's to be the golden age of prog, but punk didn't kill prog, commercialitis didn't kill it. Plenty of good stuff happening now. You can count me in as a happy camper. Still there's plenty out there in prog for me to discover from that decade and an even larger universe of stuff happening these days I'm almost sympathetic to those who are stuck on the '70's prog. You have set yourself up for a limited universe to explore, so less to deal with, less money required, etc...
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 13:12
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As one who survived the era, there will always be some sense of nostalgia for me when I hear one of my old favorites. At the same time, I do not wish to relive those years and do not try to do so vicarously through music. Over the last few years, and largely to do with Prog Archives, I have been rediscovering the 70s by being guided to bands from the time I new little to nothing about. Some of my new old favorites include Gryphon, Khan, Grobschnitt, none of whom I knew about at the time, and Eloy, Jade Warrior, Osibisa, whom I did. Ultimately, though, the simple answer is, "No." I listen to music from that time because I enjoy it, and there is still plenty there for me to explore, along with newer works. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: XunknownX
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 21:09
| The golden era of rock music will NEVER be repeated, you can't create the universe twice, |
Posted By: bufoalvariusamen
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 22:11
| not for me. I'm 28 and was raised on what my dad listened to, so alot of the newer bands I listen to today are very similar to all of that classic stuff. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 01:44
I think it is.
It is really sad that we can speak volumes about a lot of Genesis, ELP and KC, but we would rather trash Dream Theater and many other bands, than appreciate some amazing body of work by many other bands.
That's not to say that what those bands did was bad at all. It simply was a time that allowed the music to expand and people to do more on their own and many scenes in many countries took advantage of it all.
I just re-listened to a Robin Williamson interview, and he spares no quarter in saying that "it was all a media creation, anyway ... " and here we are being just like the "media" and making sure that there are favorites or better representatives of the word "progressive" ... which doesn't exist.
Robin's comment was mostly about the "psychedelic era", but in the end, it applies so well, and one quickly realizes how well educated some people are and how well they know themselves and how they want to experience and experiment with music. We, simply do not like that aspect of it, and I am not sure that we are willing to discuss something that sometimes includes "invisibles" in a conversation.
You would think that these guys are still trying to proove that ghosts do exist in a scientific manner that has nothing to do with the world they live in! Our science is not going to work in another universe. It might have some similar things, but generally it will not! And the same here. I am simply not sure that enough people here can see the larger picture, enough to understand that this is not a personal attack as much as it is a plea to open up your minds to listening to other things and learning from each culture and area and the arts around them.
A board like this is good to get things started, but sadly, I am not sure that we can get past that point. And I would like to see us take that step and start treating too much of this stuff as "hits" and "top ten", which the majority of posts really are!
Thanks for asking, I do believe that is a really good question and deserves serious attention, and a mirror with it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 01:50
I disagree.
I don't think they dumbed down anything. It might be said that their music was not as theatrical or as valuable as what/how Fish was interpreting things, but in the end, I do not think that they are a bad band and have not done nice things since. They have. It is graceful stuff and very well done and designed, and the stuff is tailored to the lead singer's range and abilities. Sadly, he is a singer, not an actor like Fish is, and that is the feeling that is missing in Marillion that makes the music seem not as important, or that lyrics about Microsoft are garbage. That's not true at all. It is relevant stuff for the 90's, not the 70's. But somehow I wonder if we're stuck thinking that the previous incarnation was better, when in the end, the band is its totality, not just Fish's or Steve's!
I think this might be another case of us wanting to hear something that is in our minds, not the reality of what is really there. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 01:53
Some things never change. How did the saying go that the more things change the more they stay the same? ... guess where prog is going? And the reason is us here! We're just gonna get old as musical tastes change ... and time continues moving along ... and one day ... ohh ... ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 02:16
There is an article on msn.com about the worst business deals ever. Two of them were in the music business, just to give you all an idea of how badly "popular music" was thought of in those days. Plain and simple, popular music, was not intelligent music and was done by people that couldn't play music well enough to be elsewhere. Sorry youtube but you are continuing this tradition more often than not. At least it gives everyone a chance, and that's ok!
That changed quickly! Why? Things like Elvis, and then the 60's came along and then some Beatles and then some Rolling Stones and then millions of others, to the point where anyone saying that most people playing anything these days, even in DAW's are musical idiots. It's not true, and never was!
The article, says that the Beatles were one of those worst deals never made, and the others were Yardbirds and Rolling Stones. In fact, someone even said that "there was no future in this music" about the Beatles ... fine, they went elsewhere and one day that guy swallowed his pride.
What eventually became known as "progressive" was played by people that were extending the simplicity of the majority of the stuff that was played in radio and was popular music. And many of these influences included classical, jazz and many other things.
I think the time of today is also a problem. I don't think that musicians are inspired enough to "experiment" as much as they could, or should, in order to create something that is not all DAW and no personality whatsoever. If they were, and they had some friends/fans support for their feelings, it would happen. But today we do not support anyone unless they are listed on a top ten! Let's compare how many listens you have on the top ten and the bottom ten!
I keep writing here, some of the similarities in theater and film with so much of this music and how there are things that could easily get one to do things this way, instead of that way, and change the piece of music. It's hard for anyone to imagine Julie Christie spending time with Brian Eno, isn't it? That the feeling and the tripping, whatever you wanna call it, was important to learning and growing! ... But if you told anyone that has a studio today, that you are going to come in and do a 20 piece improvisational piece, I think the studio guy will say ... see you later ... get lost, loser! ... you're wasting my time! There simply is not enough appreciation, even here, for experimentation and what can be discovered in music. Music is stagnating, and even us here in our discussions of "progressive" are stagnating because we can not think of anything except what was done before, instead of trying to figure out what the sound means and what the band is hoping to accomplish ... or worse yet, another getrid of LaBrie thread! How insulting to an artist is that!
I would also like to state that I think some of the bigger bands in "prog" are not furthering their learning and experimentation either, and are resorting too much to "songs" instead of music. One of the things that Baldie did not mention but was quite alive then, was the artistic thread that "anything is music" and today, it's almost like everything has to have the same syncopated drums and snare drum on the 4th beat ... oh heck, make that the 3rd beat so we can call it progressive! ...
If you take a look at a lot of music, rock will be remembered for its drums and guitars. But sadly, few people, and only the hadful mentioned above by Baldie lead in that area that is rare in music ... the ability to take an instrument and define a new way to use it and express with it. And it is different. And the music is not "bound" by a beat as much as the "events" in each special section of the music ... and this is what Amon Duul 2, Can, and so many of those earlier groups were trying to do a bit of. Even San Francisco had it, though a bit more jazz/blues flavored, both being more American idioms, unlike Europeans more enduring classical music traditions, and one of the main reasons why so many folks left classical music to go play in rock bands and experiment with synthesizers ... to get away from a world gone mad with professors telling you that every note is played incorrectly and has no feeling ... when the person that can not see a feeling in Ian Anderson doing My God ... is a fripping lunatic that obviously is not listening to the music, and can only discern notes! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 03:28
the elder of the archives and loving it!
------------- 
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Posted By: Djm912
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 13:32
Just personally, I find most modern prog to be a lot more of an enjoyable listen. Not only that, I find a lot of the "It was made first, and is older, which means it's better. End of discussion." talk that plagues just about every genre of music anywhere really short-sighted and annoying. There is a lot of nostalgia behind it, and I also get the impression that there are some that would rather live in that time than now. Not me. |
Posted By: elder08
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 13:55
------------- "There are people who say we [Pink Floyd] should make room for younger bands. That's not the way it works. They can make their own room."- David Gilmour |
Posted By: Nuke
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 14:40
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Really? Am I the only person out there who thinks that music right now is at an apex of creativity greater than any the world has ever seen? I mean, sure, the 70's bands were pretty good, but nowadays there are so many new frontiers and innovative trends in music that I don't even have enough time to follow most of it. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Seabury">  
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Posted By: Angel of Death
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 15:28
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I think apex may be a bit strong, but I do believe there is an abundance of creativity out there, not just in prog. Being a new genre, I'm sure there's quite a bit of originality in rap going on. I'm not going to be the one to check though. EDIT:This just occured to me. Is there such a thing as progressive rap?
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Posted By: pollux
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 19:21
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...and I once was 14
I love the 70's music and for me it's more than just the compositions but also the instrumentation Hammond B3, Mellotron and all...these gave a lot of personality to the music. The Theatrical aspect has been reproduced both on stage and in lyrics by the new generation of Prog bands but there is still a unique charm and sound to the 70's nostalgia or not
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 19:37
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I'm a bit late to the party, but I will say that it is certainly not a "nostalgia thing". I'm in my early teens, and I love Yes, Genesis, Frank Zappa, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, etc.... I tend to lead more towards modern prog, but I can always appreciate the classics. For me at least, it's not measured by nostalgia, but just pure quality. ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 19:52
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By its very nature , music IS nostalgia (unless you are the musician!) ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 20:53
The point that needs to be made here, that is so obvious, is that ... most music has absolutely nothing to do with age.
It's like saying that Dean would not have appreciated any of those when he was 50 and heard it for the first time ... and that none of us is open minded enough to actually appreciate music!
The point that is being missed here, is that it has nothing to do with the age. No one is discussing Beethoven's or Mozart's or Ravel's age! ... it's the MUSIC that matters.
And we remember it because it was special, and still is! ... how different is that from Mozart, or Beethoven? Not a whole lot in my book, unless you're still trying to figure out a book to even consider everything!
But there is one thing to remember. Not every household out there has the open-ness and the ability to teach you about music and so many other different things out there. To the point where you grow up loving music, not a style! ... when you say you like prog, you are demeaning a lot of other music, that you might have an ear for ... but you are "stuck" on one thing in that music and nothing else, and while there are times when you can mature and get better and learn how to appreciate other music's, you can just about get a feel in this board. Some are excellent at listening to many things and many are not. The ones that tend to "define" prog usually do not seem to be in the same listening group as those that do not "define" prog! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 01:31
Excuse me if I add in the rest of my post as it helps with context since the first two paragraphs relate to the last. Note that I only mentioned Marillion specifically because the topic starter wrote (and now I'm posting excerpts), "...And today after 30 years of experience we could be bored by listening the music of the Neo Prog bands. If Genesis, KC or Yes didn't exist and all the golden age of the 70's, and we only knew bands like IQ, Marillion or Flower Kings, did we have the same opinions on those bands?...." I don't think that any of those are up to classic-era Prog standards, and I was actually thinking of Marillion when they got started particularly (and my faves are not the best known from that era -- guess Magma would be the most popular of what I really like from that time) -- I find Fish's theatricality rather excessive, and I'd say the same of Gabriel whom he clearly imitated (and I suppose Gabriel imitated Arthur Brown to an extent). I was speaking primarily in terms of innovation and adventurousness, as well as breaking free of rock conventions, or at least expanding the possibilities of rock. I feel that bands such as Marillion adopted certain Prog conventions in an imitative way while adapting it to fashions of the day in a very unchallenging way -- very commercial sounding. One might have expected Prog to become more sophisticated (intellectual and challenging certainly for those used to pop and rock) as time went on, but I don't see that with Neo-Prog -- not that I think Prog was that sophisticated before. I might have expected it to become increasingly academic with more truly professional musicians/ composers with from classical music and music conservatory backgrounds,. Not to say that they were that sophisticated, challenging or intellectually stimulating, but I think that RIO movement bands showed considerably more progressive spirit than such bands. Sorry if I think Marillion less sophisticated than a great many progressive rock bands of the classic era, and ones past Prog's prime (Bubu for instance). As for Hogarth, well of course he helped to bring their music to a whole new level: I often hear the word emotional attached to Marillion's music, but rarely intellectual. Maybe some of the lyrics are intelligent, but, I think like most people who listen to progressive rock, it's the music itself that tends to be of interest to me. ------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me. |
Posted By: Devonsidhe
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 02:44
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I agree that the late 60s and 70s were an amazing time of creativity but we forget it was also the beginning and there were no previous creations to limit what could be experimented with therefore nothing to compare it with. Everything was new and original in the world of prog.
That isnt to say originality and creativity stopped after the golden age of prog. But, each decade or generation of that decade had two choices if they wanted to explore prog as a band. First, explore that which has already been started or second; find a completely different track that might alienate those fans who started with the beginning. In the 80s, Marillion chose the first by trying to extend what had become before. During the same time, the beginning of heavy metal prog took a completely different original track and therefore found more of its fans from a different generation.
Now that prog has a well delevoped history, it will become harder and harder for new bands to find unexplored territory. But that makes those who succeed even more rare. For me, Tool's Lateralus is as good as any prog from forty years ago. In order to find gems in the making, one has to have the mindset of trying something new instead of trying to relive the past. You will not find a fresh and original version of Yes or King Crimson in today's generation. But you will find the next great new band.
With the Internet, it is easier than ever before to explore the sounds of bands you have never heard of. If you don't have the Internet or would prefer to get out of the house, check out the local live music. Every few years I have discovered a new band that has become a staple in my collection. Every major and minor city has a local scene worth exploring. The Internet is infinite. ------------- Even a man who stumbles around in the dark will influence those he does not see. |
Posted By: Devonsidhe
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 02:56
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In contrast to my previous post, I wanted t touch on the good side of nostalgia. When I was growig up, I did not have the time or funds to buy every album I wanted and listen to it. Because of that, there is much I never got to fully experience until later in life. For a present day example, I have Yes' The Yes Album and Fragile, but I have never owned Close To The Edge. It was impossible to own every album by every band. But I am still alive and I still get paid every week. Through the years, I have picked up those albums I missed the first time around and enjoyed when I got the chance to get around to them. Not sure if that is nostalgia or just taking a lifetime to catch up with your life. I guess, for me, the late 60s and 70s still have not ended because there are still more albums I haven't bought yet and listen to for the first time. For my next paycheck, I am considering buying Close to the Edge because it has been staring me in my minds eye for far too long. I figure if I continue to buy one album per paycheck, I still won't live long enough to buy every album that came out when I was younger.
------------- Even a man who stumbles around in the dark will influence those he does not see. |
Posted By: pollux
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 06:16
Agreed along with the access to Music now that we have a global market we can now get Japanese imports that were hard to find before. Growing up in France we had a good service for european albums but how to get the Japanese or north american albums?
All the re-issues of long out of print albums we saw during the last 5 years also helped filling holes in the collection :)
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Posted By: AbrahamSapien
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 07:43
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:31
I would agree with this. What I don't agree with, referring to your earlier posts in this thread, is the part about Dream Theater etc. I don't have to EVEN like Dream Theater or Flower Kings, let alone like them as much as Genesis or King Crimson and it would have nothing to do with nostalgia. In point of fact, I do like the first three DT albums, especially Awake, but when I say I don't like them as much as my favourite Genesis albums, I am not able to grasp where nostalgia comes into the picture and why a simple matter of preference should be attributed to nostalgia. Also, in concluding that later bands not getting as much appreciation as older bands is on account of nostalgia, perhaps the assumption is being made that all and any kind of prog is the most forward looking music in the world or that progheads listen to only prog? I don't believe this to be true. As I have said before, I would rather listen to Radiohead than Spocks Beard. I would also say I like Jeff Buckley's Grace as much as my favourite Genesis albums and nearly as much as Red. I do think one branch of prog, that is the accessible, melodic side, is not in general as attractive as it was in the 70s and the adventure has shifted to different pastures. There are exceptions to the norm of course, like ACT's The Last Epic. |
Posted By: shockedjazz
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:34
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The thing is not only creativity is what a professor of mine cold dazzling pop platonic ideas of rockand roll. Is for its greatness, for its epcness, boldness and espirituality. For the particular aesthetical cohesion of a lot those works.
It was like aiming at a different world.
Today is impossible to be in the same espiritual situation of those emerging in the seventies.......Now evrything is not right if its not bitter cynical and justificative of the Status Quo( even if pretending rebeld images thats all thats left).
Blew my mind meaned my identifications are twisting so we have to go further.
Today everything is not on the wall because theres no wall. The wall losed the meaning because now theres computers ( and making OK computer doesnt free us just freezes us). theres no life in the streets ( as used to be in the 60 and 70), every achievement is merely technologycal.
Nostalgia yes-like i miss the renaissance- its the ilusion of living the best the man have achieved on this planet. Is like craving for it wioth your whole being.
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Posted By: Conor Fynes
Date Posted: April 27 2010 at 11:38
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I personally don't think it's a nostalgia thing, considering I like it and wasn't even born yet! |
