Bowie prog?
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Topic: Bowie prog?
Posted By: Carakhallo
Subject: Bowie prog?
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 10:06
| I still haven´t listened to any David Bowie´s record and I heard some of them are quite near to prog rock. Can anyone recommend me some of his releases? I am interested in those more prog-like sounding. |
Replies:
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 10:11
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I know Bowie, and I recommend the following:
Enjoy |
Posted By: Duncan
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 10:43
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Station to Station (if only for the fantastic ten-minute title track!), Heroes |
Posted By: Trotsky
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:23
These are my favourites ... the 2nd through 6th ... Hunky Dory is a
bit folkier, Ziggy Stardust has more anthemic glam stuff ... but
they're all good ... I'm one of those who doesn't quite rate later
phases as essential ... but yes, the Station to Station track is cool
... ------------- "Death to Utopia! Death to faith! Death to love! Death to hope?" thunders the 20th century. "Surrender, you pathetic dreamer.” "No" replies the unhumbled optimist "You are only the present." |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:27
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I would stick Diamond Dogs in there too! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Carakhallo
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:34
Thank you very much for your suggestions. So, I guess I will try the 70s, like usual.... 
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Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 11:59
| I personally don't think Bowie is progressive, but he is definately a great talent. The proggiest albums of his IMO are Space Oddity, Diamond Dogs and Station To Station. I haven't heard anything from 1976 or later so I can't comment on Low, Heroes, etc. |
Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 13:04
Hope it's a joke! |
Snow Dog wrote:Posted By: oliverstoned
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 13:06
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...Yes, there are a few little prog moments on Diamond dogs, like the half-good Arnold layne reprise, but the overall album is atrocious.
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Posted By: DavidInsabella
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 13:35
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Hunky Dory is his best record. ------------- Life seemed to him merely like a gallery of how to be. 
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 13:57
Agree |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 16:40
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I don't really think Bowie is 'progressive rock' as such; he is certainly a progressive musician though, constantly changing his style. Here's his career pinnacles, in my opinion. 1- Man Who Sold The World (Bowie invents pomp rock- tremendous and very heavy) 2- Hunky Dory (a wonderful amalgamation of pop, folk rock, Velvet Underground-esque rock and absurdities- one of his best) 3- The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust...(the best glam rock album ever made; also one of the best rock albums ever made too- every track is great) 4- Diamond Dogs (A transitional album from the heavy rock of previous efforts and the so called 'plastic soul' of his next few albums- it's one of the more progressive albums, and my personal favourite) 5- Station To Station (A wonderful record- features Bowie's greatest vocals and some of his best tunes) 6- Low/Heroes/Lodger (All 3 are superb in my opinion- Bowie pretty much invented post punk after these, not long after fully fledged punk rock had been created too) 7- Scary Monsters (a truly mad, skewed avant pop album- another masterpiece) 8- Heathen (his best late period album; some great tracks here) |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 17:09
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Non..its no joke, I like 70's Bowie! ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 17:10
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Which is the Arnold Layne reprise? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 17:16
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I think the album with the 'Arnold Layne reprise' is 'Pinups' a covers album, which had a cover of 'Arnold Layne'. I'd say this was Bowie's poorest album of the '70s- the only song which improved on the original was 'Sorrow'. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 17:26
I thought that the Floyd cover on that album was "See Emily Play"? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 17:27
To my knowledge, Bowie never did a version of Arnold Layne. See Emily Play was the PF track he covered on Pinups. |
Posted By: salmacis
Date Posted: May 28 2005 at 17:49
| Ah right yes- sorry, my bad. It was 'See Emily Play' on 'Pinups'- I think there are versions of Bowie doing 'Arnold Layne' that circulate however. |
Posted By: ZowieZiggy
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 09:15
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Well, as I know a bit of Bowie, I would say that it all depends on what you are looking for.
For folk music, I'd suggest "Space Oddity " (although the title track might be considered as prog with the great synth work from Rick Wakeman) and "Hunky Dory"
For hard-rock : "The Man Who Sold The World"
For concept : "Ziggy" and "Diamond Dogs"
Pure rock music : "Aladin Sane" (also known as "a lad insane" FYI), "Station to Station" (although a bit soul as well) and "Scary Monsters" (real great)
For prog related : "Low" and "Heroes"
For commercial (but good) stuff : "Let's Dance" and "Hours"
A good option would be his double live album : "Stage"
I hope to have been helpful.
Cheers. ------------- ZowieZiggy |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 11:57
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Any discoveries concerning David Bowie, Carakhallo? Personally I love the Ziggy Stardust era (especially the live video) and Berlin-era songs like Warszawa and Sense Of Doubt (wonderful Chamberlin work) |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 11:58
Low was his most progy album but all his 70 stuff are great!  ------------- 
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Posted By: Equality 7-2521
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 12:04
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Hunky Dory and The Man Who Sold The World are the most progressive.
His Berlin Trilogy comes next in proginess, but not nearly next in quality IMO. ------------- "One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. " |
Posted By: febus
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 12:31
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His first 5 albums are great; hoW not to like ZIGGY SATARDUST and the ''crazy piano'' on ALLADIN SANE.
Not fan at all of ''young americans ''period.
Good, but not outstanding ''ENO '' period collaboration (low)
Forgetful 80s releases ( like a lot of 70s superstars)
A good come back with HOURS in 2000 ( great album- good old Bowie is back)
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Posted By: kingdhansak
Date Posted: August 01 2007 at 16:35
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Bowie is just brilliant. Thr trick is to get any album that was originally released on the RCA label and you cant go wrong. My top 5 however would be...
1. Man who sold the world
2. Station to station
3. Scary monsters
4. Hunky Dory
5. Diamond Dogs
Seriously worth collecting all the 70's releases as no 2 albums are the same, enjoy!
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 05:23
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Discussed many times before. Prog-related at best, and likely to open floodgates for tons of other bands.
Let's worry about Velvet Underground, first! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 09:09
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Bowie deserves to be a Honorary Mention becuase he was/is one of the most influential artists of all time for every genre imaginable but he was also equally influenced by them - however we don't have a HM category. Prog-Related I think is tenous because he had PR songs, but not whole albums.
His pre Ziggy albums have definite Proto-Prog songs:
Space Oddity - for Memory of a Free Festival, Cygnet Committee and Wild-eyed Boy From Freecloud.
Man Who Sold The World - for Width Of A Circle, All The Madmen
Hunky Dory - for Life On Mars (a mini-prog epic) and The Bewley Brothers
...I would recommend any of those, together with Diamond Dogs (for the concept), Station to Station and Low (the better of the 3 Berlin albums)
------------- What? |
Posted By: BroSpence
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 23:55
| Bowie is a man of many styles. While Rick Wakeman did play with him a few times, and he has some prog moments he wouldn't exactly fit in prog. He's messed with glam rock, blues rock, dance, electronica, industrial, and many other styles. I'd recommend getting the complete catalogue. He's a brilliant person and is not to be missed out on. |
Posted By: Dim
Date Posted: August 02 2007 at 23:57
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Great in the seventies
sucked in the eighties
prog in the... oh wait ------------- 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: August 03 2007 at 09:54
This thread is over two years old. Why it was revived is beyond me. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: August 03 2007 at 16:30
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New memebrs are joining all the time. They will inevitably want to discuss things which have been talked about before. They face derision of they start a new thread on an old topic, so a catch 22 situation develops.
I think we need to be tolerant of old subjects being revived, it's only fair.
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Posted By: meinmatrix
Date Posted: August 04 2007 at 13:19
Just the other day i was looking for some Iggy Pop and Lou Reed for my record collection. But David Bowie, well i think he is Glam Rock, Art Rock and Pop. Like many said, start from his 70's albums.  ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 04 2007 at 13:23
hahhaha... wow.. we should congratulate whoever revived it since we are so quick to nail people for starting new threads on subjects which have been previously done. It's not like it was even another call for his inclusion... just a thread wanting some recommendations. Jeepers Peter  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 00:20
Mickle, by "beyond me," I didn't mean that "we should never discuss this topic -- damn ye all to hell " but rather I was just larfing at the fact that a two years-plus old thread should suddenly get responses... as if the original poster were still there, urgently awaiting replies, and unsure how to proceed with his enjoyment of Bowie.
For his sake (and despite all you "fresh from the bong" latecomers), let's hope he wasn't holding his breath in the interim!   ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 15:47
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David Bowie being discussed for a prog-related is something popular as hell, it will come around every time a fan will feel the progressive kick inside the artist and will want to "start" his suggestion - eventually, many of those times will lead to big discussions - I would say "until Bowie's appurtenance in/towards prog won't be decided once and for all"; but I already know better that, even upon knowing the general decision, a new spark of suggestion might lead, eventually, to total re-consideration. But the point of my post is different, since, recently, and by a good collaborator's opinion, Bowie was suggested towards a genre of full prog - and the designated specialists of that genre have taken commitment to fully search and decide on David Bowie's music, style, character, etc. Therefore, until that is done, it would be enough to ask that no final decision, nor huge and endless discussions be made on Bowie, wishing deeply for a conclusion - at least till that Team clears out the suggestion it received, and Bowie heads into being suggested for another genre or for Prog Related. Or, actually, get taken out of any progressive account. Nothing against discussion about it, and nothing to do about new fans and members who will try to suggest, once again, Bowie for prog; yet, until that Team finishes its appreciation, there's little reason for other angles (whether a genre or Prog-Related) to be simultaneously considered. ------------- 
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Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 16:01
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Well... PR or Art Rock or... David Bowie is an artist for PA because i have noted that today is a obscured reference for a lot of bands.
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 17:37
70's feel: - Rise and fall of Ziggy Stardust bla bla bla... - Hunky Dory - Low Recent production: - Earthling (absolute masterpiece) - Hours - Everything else  ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 17:41
A few years ago I witnessed a live concert by David Bowie (perhaps 2002 or 2003) on the Arte Channel tv, it was awesome, so creative with many mindblowing new rendtions of classic footage and, last but not least, it was pure Art-rock, this artist should be added to Prog Archives, now, now , now 
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Posted By: cuncuna
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 17:49
Yeah... and then let's worry about Congreso... ... still wating for that PM, mr. Trane.
Anyway, Bowie is by far more influential and more innovative (still producing fine albums... when was the last time Lou Reed produced something remotely interesting). If Iron Maiden deserves more attention than Bowie around here... well, several conclusions comes to mind... ------------- ¡Beware of the Bee! |
Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 17:57
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Asking to worry about The Velvet Underground instead of David Bowie is like asking to focus on Grateful Dead rather than Vanilla Fudge here on Prog Archives |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 20:56
I don't understand why you and others keep digging up Iron Maiden again and again. As the person responsible for their addition, I can tell you that it wasn't something done on the spur of the moment, or without the approval of the owners. People had been suggesting them for addition for months, and they were on the Prog Metal team chart. The same cannot be said for David Bowie, who has LOTS of supporters anyway , in case you haven't noticed. The problem is, people don't seem to agree on where to put it, whether in Prog-Related or in Art Rock (which is a 100% prog genre). I am quite sure that, if he ever gets added, there will be many forum members complaining about him as there are now complaining about Iron Maiden, Queen, The Who, Deep Purple, and so on. And then, in case you hadn't noticed.. Iron Maiden are in Prog-Related, which means NOT PROG. The forum isn't flooded with threads about them or any other PR band, seen as they have a separate section. Such arguments are getting old and stale... Perhaps it would be more productive to examine an artist's production on its own merits, instead of continuing with the same old song, "if X are here, why not Y?". |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: August 05 2007 at 21:09
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Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 01:04
Very nice memories, as usual, Erik, but can I ask how memories help you think that the artist is fully prog? Art Rock of music can definitely has some other meanings than the Art Rock of prog music. I think this is what needs to be discovered and appreciated thoroughly. -------------
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:13
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Ricochet, my post was not only pointing at great music from the past (I know I am good in memories, I am stuck into The Seventies |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 05:18
Then I guess the recent albums he composed will have to prove that. You do, then, agree that Art Rock in music can be different than 'Art Rock' in progressive rock... Interesting , this thread started as a recommendations thread; as in "I don't know Bowie, what are his good albums?", not as in "I don't know Bowie, but is he prog?". -------------
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Posted By: erik neuteboom
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 10:12
| Ricochet, it's about Art-rock on Prog Archives, that differs from the category Art-rock I grew up with in the Seventies while reading UK music magazines like The Melody maker, The New Musical Express and Sounds: inventive rock (along the progressive rock movement) like early Roxy Music, Queen, Supertramp 10CC and David Bowie. In my opinion David Bowie deserves to be mentioned in the category Art-rock, rather than Prog-related, with the same motivation as Genesis is in Symphonic Prog instead of Prog-related. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 10:15
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why is Genesis "mentioned" in Symphonic Prog, instead of Prog-Related?
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Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 10:30
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I think the trilogy "Low" / "Heroes" / "Lodger" was prog, especially "Lodger" (only the first song on Lodger is NOT prog, in my opinion). I also think his Tin Machine project was quite proggy. I really enjoyed it. -------------  BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: August 06 2007 at 14:38
Wow! Someone else likes the much maligned Tin Machine  ------------- What? |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: August 31 2007 at 02:52
| Probably the most prog sounding Bowie record is "Low", having Eno on board doesn't hurt. |
Posted By: Jim Garten
Date Posted: August 31 2007 at 07:28
Great album, benefitting from Adrian Belew on lead guitar, too; the versions of 'Station To Station' & TVC15 stand out in particular, as does 'Five Years' 
So it was you two who bought the albums, eh? ------------- 
Jon Lord 1941 - 2012 |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 03:59
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I am Bowie fan since the early 70's and have all his albums. I did not consider him prog, but since we have acts like 10CC, Supertramp and ELO in the arcives I definitely think he fits as well. Listen to the concept album 1.Outside from 1995 and you may agree!
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 04:11
Just a word of clarification: 10CC and ELO are in Prog-Related, which means exactly what it says - that its, they are NOT prog, but influenced by it. There has been a lot of debate on whether Bowie belongs here. Lots of people are in favour, others are vehemently against. However, since controversial additions are likely to cause quite a bit of unrest in the forums, the Admin Team is trying to keep them under control. |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 08:46
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I try to stay out of arguments about this site with that in mind I think Bowie is a progressive artist in that on many occaisons he has pushed rock into new directions and increased its scope.
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Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 09:47
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I would classify Bowie as more of an experimental rock artist. Not quite prog. Certainly some of his stuff would qualify as prog, songs like "Cygnet Committee", "Wild-Eyed Boy from Freecloud", "Station to Station" and some of his electronic meanderings on Low and Heroes. But not enough of his stuff qualifies as progressive to include him here in the archives I think. Bowie is probably the most intelligent and experimental pop song writer out there, but that doesn't qualify him as progressive. And this is coming from a huge Bowie fan. I believe I own all of his albums, including his stuff with Tin Machine, most of his soundtrack work, etc. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: jimidom
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 09:51
I agree. He is the epitome of the concept that a progressive artist may still not be Prog per se. Doesn't his affiliation with Eno and his collabs with Eno, Fripp, Belew, etc. qualify as "prog related"? ------------- "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 18:40
Actually I thought it was cool that he used that band to dump his mega rock star status, which he had at that time, and I also liked their cover of "In every dream home ... "
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 18:44
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 18:53
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just yesterday I was discussing this with a musician friend (always like to get a non-progster's opinion).. when I casually asked if he thought Bowie was 'Prog' he immediately said "No", but then I asked if he thought Bowie was a progressive rock musician, and he said "Oh hell yeah" |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:05
that is why David that there is such a split on him....many strongly for... and many strongly against. 'Prog' is a label stuck upon an artist, regardless of the music.. 'progressive' describes the music. Some judge based upon only a label.. some upon the music itself. That is why we fight as we do over these addtions... I could bring up a past addtion as an example ... but I see that someone already did though in a different context
So I won't. I think the point is clear though.. usually it's
those who judge as labels that cause the problems here. Anyhow...
that's all I want to say about him. For now of course. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:18
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yes, and also there's the other ugly little secret of judging music.. and that is personal taste. It isn't suppose to matter but, in fact, it does-- i.e. I would probably not support the addition of, say, Lou Reed, but mostly because I don't care for his music.. but is he progressive... and well, there you have it |
Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:20
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That is funny you mention Lou Reed, I was listening to his greatest hits album last night, and the thought crossed my mind about him and Velvet Underground. I don't really think that either belong in PA but I thought that he was fairly experimental in a David Bowie type way. ------------- 
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:29
much like Steely Dan... artists like Reed progresive as they are .. have absolutely no connection with prog. As Dean likes to say... it is a fine line we walk. To balance judging upon the music.. versus what public perception is. The littlest things do make a difference... like origin.. to use your example, Reed was american and as I posted in the SD thread, during those years prog was european. Bowie did spring out of that same movement... he has a much stronger case by association. What some people will never get through their head is prog was a movement... to expand rock beyond it's boundries... not a genre based on epic track lengths and sh*t like that... I have found so damn funny, yet sad at the same time, that many of fans of prog, are amoung the most close minded of music fans. Whereas like the music and musicians of prog themselves... had willingness to incorporate other styles and ways of thinking and were quite open minded. Oh well. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:34
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that's a strong point on Bowie's side you raise.. region and background are highly significant |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:39
very significant.. ask yourself this David... do you think Steely Dan would be here if they were English.. I'd bet my paycheck on that... they would have, well before either of us had joined. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:44
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well I don't know, but if true, that's points for Bowie |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 19:51
it does... but we'll deal with that down the road. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 20:41
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For many Bowie typifies what has been descibed in the Progressive vs. Prog thread as a progressive artist who is not Prog. Almost everything he does is simultaneously eclectic and progressive - his albums generally arrive from the leftfield and land slap bang in the middle of the mainstream. And that's where the problem lies.
He produced some Prog songs, but maybe not whole Prog albums, he did Concept albums (albeit within fairly a standard rock format) and even ventured into the realm of Art Rock and Art School Rock. He has created fusions of every school of music you can care to imagine: minimalism, krautrock, jazz, soul, hip-hop, electronic, hard-rock, folk... and of course prog... (He is also pretty unique in suceeding in influencing some of the people he was influenced by - the only other artist to do that I can think of is Trent Reznor...) yet he remains a mainstream performer in the eyes of the world, even when producing non-mainstream albums. ------------- What? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 02 2007 at 20:45
very very very well said...  ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: October 03 2007 at 00:02
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Bowie is yust as prog as Peter Gabriel, and even much more IMO, the only reason PG is here and not Bowie is becaus he was in Genesis if it was the other way around Bowie whuld be here and not PG. You cant get more progressiv then Bowie he changed his sound and style more from album to album then most bands and artist do thiere whole carer. -------------
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: October 03 2007 at 13:29
You are equating experimental with progressive. That's fine as long as we are talking about adjectives, but when we skip over to talk about genres, experimental is just one component of progressive rock.
Bowie isn't progressive rock. It's ok to like his music anyway, though.
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