Sorry, I don't know him, maybe because I joined this forum lately but that sounds funny to me  He has found christianity and now he'll be a nice boy

Well... he gets radical sometimes, but if everyone would just learn to ignore that behavior when it happens... he usually chills out soon afterwards...

Anyway.. I sort of miss him too!

1. Our sins are very great.
2. God has forgiven them all.
3. By comparison to the offenses we have committed against God, our brethren's offenses against us are small.
4. We should be so appreciative of being forgiven that we freely forgive others.
5. We must forgive from the heart, not merely in words. When we truly forgive from the heart, it is as if no offense had ever occurred.
6. If we do not forgive, God is justified in not forgiving us.

tuxon:

Although you make a good case, there are other factors to consider here.  I can forgive KE9 for everything he has done and said.  What I cannot do - and what the admin group will not do - is permit him to wreak havoc on a site that is home to an extremely diverse group of people, many of whom complained bitterly enough that even Max okayed his ejection.  Note that prior to this, Max had "championed" KE9 consistently, even when KE9 had occasionally "gone overboard."  That Max eventually saw fit to agree to KE9's ejection thus speaks volumes.

KE9 is ultimately a perfect example of "the boy who cried wolf."  In this regard, to quote another Scriptural phrase, he has "reaped what he has sown."

Peace.

maani wrote: tuxon: Although you make a good case, there are other factors to consider here.  I can forgive KE9 for everything he has done and said.  What I cannot do - and what the admin group will not do - is permit him to wreak havoc on a site that is home to an extremely diverse group of people, many of whom complained bitterly enough that even Max okayed his ejection.  Note that prior to this, Max had "championed" KE9 consistently, even when KE9 had occasionally "gone overboard."  That Max eventually saw fit to agree to KE9's ejection thus speaks volumes. KE9 is ultimately a perfect example of "the boy who cried wolf."  In this regard, to quote another Scriptural phrase, he has "reaped what he has sown." Peace.

You guys gave him far more chances than I might of and I guess that is a good thing.  The thing I hated about his posting was i would be following some thread and then come across an obsenity laced post blasting you or the admins in general.  It just ruined the thread for me and I  usually would never look at the thread again.  Don't get me wrong I am no prude and obsenties of themselves do not bother me.  But his were direct attacks on people and it just got to be way to much. 

I should also point out that far from "finding Christianity," Karney is making an appeal (and, in my opinion, a smart-aleck one at that) to my Chrisitanity: the Scriptural cites he is holding up in the photo have to do with forgiveness - i.e., he is expecting me to forgive him and allow him back.  Yet I have seen no contriteness on his part - certainly nothing I would "put stock in" and believe.  As they say in the 'hood: "forgive your enemies...but never forget their names..."   (I jest, of course...)

I can, and do, forgive KE9.  However, as Garion infers, I was only the "instrument" of his ejection: the cause of his ejection was the enormous number of PMs I received from members complaining bitterly about his posts, his attitude, his approach, and his utter lack of contriteness at any point - even when he had clearly attacked another member.

KE9 showed a serious lack of respect for this site, and for its members (and I'm not even counting the multiple, often highly vulgar and insulting, personal attacks on me).  And he did it on more than one occasion after promising to "change his spots."

However, leopards are leopards, and Karney is Karney.

Peace.

"Be angry, and do not sin: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil."   (Ephesians 4:26-27).

Satan is constantly looking for a way to "push our button" -- to get us angry.  Anger usually starts with a small offense.  That little seed of offense begins to sprout and grow into resentment.  Resentment unrecognized and/or not dealt with then blossoms into bitterness.  Bitterness then blossoms into slow simmering anger, which at that point gives the devil great opportunity to gain a foothold in our lives not only legally, but actually with invitation.

There's good and rightious cause in a continuation of the enflicted ban of our beloved/hated Carney.

But still I prefer a policy of lovingly smothering the evil, above the ignoring of it's excistence

maybe we can teach Carney not only to quote from the bible, but to make him actually believe in the word that is spoken through the bible, directly to him(we need a halowed smiley, to emphasize the saintlyness of the word)

I don't speak (write) in his behalf, I have no need for that, I just like to create awareness of the underlying issue. In a community as this we have no direct contact with each other, and it is easy to ban someone from our community, but in real life you cannot as easily ban a person from social interaction. And isn't it part of society to deal with all aspects of social interactions, even with the unwanted kind?

I never thought that letting or not KE9 again into the forums could become a theological discussion...

According to some opinions here, I guess we should turn the other cheek to Belva, so that he can continue abussing the site...

I won't fight against KE9 readmission, but I think we should ask him something more than a scriptures quote: I guess some apologies to ALL the forum members (if I remember well, the last time he was around he wrote something like "f**k you all"), and personally I'd like some explanation for his behaviour: was he drunk? had him had any problem? does he have some kind of schyzophrenical syndrome? (not kidding, I'm talking about a medical condition). You know, just to evaluate the probability of he misbehaving again...

tuxon:

Let us consider an even more appropriate passage:

"Then Peter came to Him and said, 'Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him?  Up to seven times?'  Jesus said to him, 'I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven."

So...should we allow Karney to come back, use vulgarity, personally attack numerous members, send threatening PMs, and be ejected - and allow him to return "seventy times seven" times?

After all, we had to eject Karney four times - each time after he "swore" to "be good."  That was four chances for him to show that he really "learned" something, and really would "be good."  Yet he lied, and betrayed the site, its members, and even Max - who, as noted, championed him against the wishes of the other members of the admin group.

As a Christian, I forgive Karney for his many extremely vulgar personal insults, and his betrayal. However, he has proven, time and again, that he cannot - will not - learn, change, grow, and, as we often put it here, "play nice in the sandbox."  How many "one more chances" are we supposed to give him?

No, unless and until Max and the admin group are in unanimous agreement - which is unlikely at this time - Karney will not be permitted to return and cause havoc on a site that tries to maintain a safe, comfortable and welcoming atmosphere.

Peace.

tuxon:

As an aside, it just occurred to me that, as correct and noble as your Christian values are - and they are - you (and I) can barely claim to speak for the Christians on the site (as JrKASperov's post indicates), much less to speak for the site as a whole.  Thus, even if you are correct in your interpretation of forgiveness vis-a-vis Christianity, you would not have the right to "impose" that on the other members.  (Might we call this the "separation between church and...site?" )

Peace.

By turning this into some sort of religious discussion, we are merely playing along with KE9's game. As Maani implies, KE9 is only using the religious aspect because he is fully aware of Maani's beliefs.

The issue however is only about a member who was ejected because he could not respect either our (very few) rules, or indeed his fellow forum members.

maani:

Many thanks for the Forgiveness noted on your thread..Regarding so called Havoc on the site.if you noticed before my ejection i was in a rumble with an Italian member who come on here solely to cause havoc & provoke every member he can...Other than that  for one find that you have to tread on egg shells to get on with certain members finding you have to agree with people & their views on a lie Just to get on with them & not get reported,you can't really be yourself & your true opinions...You dare not talk too much about ELP on here for example without members moaning.I find this quite sad & annoying.

You claim you have recieved an enormous number of PM's i'd really love to know who from & why complain!I know who there not from that's for sure which to me gives an inclination as to what a handful off complaints will be about.Can i just get this clear i do not attack other people off the top of my head.I don not dis-respect this site nor it's members unless they give me great cause to & that includes the many who consistantly provoke me.

Sorry but when i see people posting that i may be Schizoid,on medication,pissed all the time that makes me laugh it really does....non old chaps,might have the odd tinny session but not much.

maani:i would love to have contacted you aftermath but when you blocked so is your PM facility.

The resaon i asked a few good member/friends to post on my behalf.

[email protected] is me

Karney.

So what do you say?

-------------
The Worthless Recluse

I said in a previous post that I wouldn't be against KE9 being admitted again: well, now I AM!!! I couldn't find the smallest symptom of regret in his message: it's the rest of the world who is misbehaving...

KE9, you might not be a schyzoid but then, what are you? You came here one morning and posted your famous "f**k you all" post all over the forum. Why?

It's just a humble opinion from me, but I have the feeling it would be a mistake to allow him back. Anyway, I guess it's an admin's matter...

I am against repeat (or very serious) offenders being allowed back.

In the real world, our actions have consequences. If there are to be no real consequences for offensive behaviour here, then what effective leverage would we have to ensure acceptable behaviour?

Most people (adults, anyway) don't need a fear of punishment to prevent them from doing ill. Unfortunately though, some do. We need real rules, with real consequences, to keep this forum a pleasant place for the broadest segment of people.

threefates wrote: Well... he gets radical sometimes, but if everyone would just learn to ignore that behavior when it happens... he usually chills out soon afterwards... Anyway.. I sort of miss him too!

That's how I feel too.

frenchie:

Please refrain from serving as Karney's "mouthpiece."  Any further communication from Karney via you on this site will force be deleted.

Thanks.

Peace.

Although he was given numerous chances , KE9 has always managed to follow the rules until his crisis, that are relatively easy to spot when they start - usually out of boredom and some mind altering changes (sort of Jekyll & Hyde).

Even if he had found religion, (I think like Maani that this is a ploy to work on his foregiveness), he is likely to repeat his performance. Should he get another chance, he will in all likelyhood blow it again, and on what grounds will he claim re-admission that time - finding the evil dwarves!?!

I never had real scrapping words with him , but always steered clear of his mood swings. As Threefates points out, I believe that if everybody would ignore his bad tempered posts, the man would cool himself off relatively quick. I may be wrong in the following reasoning but hear me out. I believe that there is a set time at which the incidents took places - and generally the admins are sleeping at that time -  but it does not mean that he waits in the shadow for them to be asleep either. If and when he does derail/slip away , it is generally late at night in the UK and a bit in the early morning around 8 or 9 AM UK/GMT time. This means sleepless nights......and probably a cry for help or simple attention. It also could imply substance abuse (medecine , booze others) to be up at that time.

I have calmed down some of the KE9 opponents (no names but those know who they are) by asking them via PM to stop posting replies to his agressive posts, because it was only worsening things. When those persons actually did stop and waited at least until the admins wake up and check what happens on the site. And generally , KE9 was either calmer or gone because no answer got to him anymore.

The best thing to do is to ignore the offensive post giving the exact very answer the offender does not want: SILENCE!!!        &n bsp;         Generally these offensive posts are asking for attention! So Ignoring is the best answer we can give to someone who is offensive.

Giving KE9 another chance, is not up to me!! I only doubt it will change much after a few weeks another crisis will have happened! But maybe the way it will be handled , differently and silently, may actually change and minimize the incidents if you are to use my advice .

I havent been here as long as Karney, but it seems to me that some deliberately agravate him.

I'm not suggesting his reaction to this is acceptable, but he has always been courteous and polite to me!