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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
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Topic: Tolkien in ProgPosted By: Earendil
Subject: Tolkien in Prog
Date Posted: November 08 2010 at 18:39
J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal). So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.
Replies: Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: November 08 2010 at 18:41
My personal favorites would have to be: In Elven Lands- The Fellowship (with Jon Anderson) Nightfall in Middle Earth- Blind Guardian
Posted By: MFP
Date Posted: November 08 2010 at 18:42
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 08 2010 at 20:28
Eärendil wrote:
J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal). So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.
BS . () .. he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?
There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.
(Parts of the post removed, since it indeed went off the track -- my apologies -- ... and for the record, at the time I did not speak enough English to be able to read that book at all. I did read it later, and I guess I would think that C.S. Lewis, Dion Fortune, Aleister Crowley, Carlos Castaneda, and a lot of other more mystical work was more important to me. In the end, Tolkien's work is a wonderful story ... that has unbelievably good creativity and visual content, the likes of which was not even found in the European history of so many fables in the past 500 years -- many of which went on to inspire "progressive music" by more than one band.)
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: November 08 2010 at 21:24
Posted By: Shevrzl
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 02:58
moshkito wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal). So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.
BS ... he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?
There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.
It did have some other things that weren't great, but they were nice. The cartoonist Bashki did a version of the Rings that was actually rather nice, though he had to condense the whole thing to an hour and a half. The cartoon itself was really nice, though the music in it was not.
The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose", which Camel later interpreted beautifully only to have it get totally trashed by the rock music military militia that thinks that rock music has to have lyrics and be a 3 minute song and Camel never really survived, their single greatest piece of music ever. A beautiful soundtrack. The American version was Jonathan Livingston Seagull, since in America we don't like imports and no one is going to read The Snow Goose as it is too long! ... and the America version reads in 90 minutes!
It was similar to the "new age" thing ... just as many people wanted to have nothing to do with it as otherwise, and the artistry in most cases was questionable.
The one thing that is bizarre, that had a much bigger impact in "progressive" and other strange music, that most you folks are scared to discuss is the much more obvious influence of drugs and the discussion of Carlos Castaneda ... whose works influenced many bands, that kinda took it to heart very quickly ... but when you all in PA stop being afraid of discussing literature, magick and mind, let me know!
I thought this thread is about prog albums influenced by Tolkien. This is totally going in some other direction.
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 06:26
Hijack alert!
Hey moshkito, I might be wrong, but usually quite sensitive about these things; Is anything bugging you?
I find the Tolkien topic quite intersting, and I might participate if this thread somehow manages to get back on track. But I'm not the one whose going to try and do that at the moment.
Bad luck Eärendil. Try something less 'controversial' next time.
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 07:20
moshkito wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal). So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.
BS ... he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?
There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.
It did have some other things that weren't great, but they were nice. The cartoonist Bashki did a version of the Rings that was actually rather nice, though he had to condense the whole thing to an hour and a half. The cartoon itself was really nice, though the music in it was not.
The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose", which Camel later interpreted beautifully only to have it get totally trashed by the rock music military militia that thinks that rock music has to have lyrics and be a 3 minute song and Camel never really survived, their single greatest piece of music ever. A beautiful soundtrack. The American version was Jonathan Livingston Seagull, since in America we don't like imports and no one is going to read The Snow Goose as it is too long! ... and the America version reads in 90 minutes!
It was similar to the "new age" thing ... just as many people wanted to have nothing to do with it as otherwise, and the artistry in most cases was questionable.
The one thing that is bizarre, that had a much bigger impact in "progressive" and other strange music, that most you folks are scared to discuss is the much more obvious influence of drugs and the discussion of Carlos Castaneda ... whose works influenced many bands, that kinda took it to heart very quickly ... but when you all in PA stop being afraid of discussing literature, magick and mind, let me know!
Just to correct you on Bakshi's cartoon. It wasn't condensed into an hour and a half, he never actually finished it.
Also when you say "The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose"", that would actually be just the one bit of music influenced by it then? What are the other ones apart from Camel?
Posted By: BaldFriede
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 08:37
At the end of the track "Choose Your Masques" on the abum of the same name by Hawkwind there is a voice saying: "I have come. But I do not choose now to do what I came to do". These are the very words Frodo speaks when he has reached the top of Mount Doom.
-------------
BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
Posted By: Lozlan
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 10:59
Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track.
I tend to be very protective of Tolkien. I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text.
Now don't get me wrong. I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier. I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan. I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me. I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it. Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)
As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching their hands over their ears and wailing with fright. Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas. I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics. Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous. Or both.
Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest. There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals. There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping. Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee. However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside. I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul.
Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits? Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel.
EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
------------- Certified Obscure Prog Fart.
http://scottjcouturier.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 11:08
Lozlan wrote:
Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track.
I tend to be very protective of Tolkien. I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text.
Now don't get me wrong. I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier. I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan. I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me. I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it. Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)
As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching their hands over their ears and wailing with fright. Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas. I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics. Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous. Or both.
Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest. There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals. There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping. Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee. However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside. I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul.
Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits? Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel.
EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
I quite like the Bakshi cartoon!
Anyway, I guess the reason nobody's written a song about Hobbits is that there is a danger of it sounding very silly. I also have to disagree with you about Rush's Necromancer, the whole thing makes me laugh (I think it's the narrator's voice).
Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 11:17
Eärendil wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal). So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.
BS ... he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?
There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.
It did have some other things that weren't great, but they were nice. The cartoonist Bashki did a version of the Rings that was actually rather nice, though he had to condense the whole thing to an hour and a half. The cartoon itself was really nice, though the music in it was not.
The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose", which Camel later interpreted beautifully only to have it get totally trashed by the rock music military militia that thinks that rock music has to have lyrics and be a 3 minute song and Camel never really survived, their single greatest piece of music ever. A beautiful soundtrack. The American version was Jonathan Livingston Seagull, since in America we don't like imports and no one is going to read The Snow Goose as it is too long! ... and the America version reads in 90 minutes!
It was similar to the "new age" thing ... just as many people wanted to have nothing to do with it as otherwise, and the artistry in most cases was questionable.
The one thing that is bizarre, that had a much bigger impact in "progressive" and other strange music, that most you folks are scared to discuss is the much more obvious influence of drugs and the discussion of Carlos Castaneda ... whose works influenced many bands, that kinda took it to heart very quickly ... but when you all in PA stop being afraid of discussing literature, magick and mind, let me know!
Have you actually read The Lord of the Rings or the Silmarillion? They are true works of art. Yes, they were immensely popular within the hippie movement as well as now from the films, which is what I already said. I don't see what your rant has to do with this thread at all. If you're so bitter that you want to stereotype people and go on about how everyone is stupid, then go ahead, but don't do it here.
Don't mind moshkito. He's a master of thinking WAY too much into things.
Posted By: Lozlan
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 11:33
chopper wrote:
Lozlan wrote:
Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track.
I tend to be very protective of Tolkien. I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text.
Now don't get me wrong. I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier. I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan. I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me. I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it. Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)
As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching their hands over their ears and wailing with fright. Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas. I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics. Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous. Or both.
Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest. There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals. There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping. Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee. However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside. I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul.
Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits? Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel.
EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
I quite like the Bakshi cartoon!
Anyway, I guess the reason nobody's written a song about Hobbits is that there is a danger of it sounding very silly. I also have to disagree with you about Rush's Necromancer, the whole thing makes me laugh (I think it's the narrator's voice).
I'll agree on The Necromancer. Still, better silly than overwrought. Although Rush are normally the masters of the overwrought...
Hey, if the Bakshi gets you off, who am I to rain on your happiness? I do think the feature films are a (slightly!) more respectable interpretation. Especially the Fellowship film.
------------- Certified Obscure Prog Fart.
http://scottjcouturier.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 11:45
I've yet to find a good interpretation of Tolkien in prog, given that I dont like Rush and Camel, and Glass Hammers Middle Earth album is pretty widely derided. The Blind Guardian attempt is really cheesy so I guess that just leaves Bo Hansson, who I've yet to hear.
Almost forgot, The Gatherings Sand and Mercury ends with a Tolkien narrative on TLotR, and that works very well for what is a great song.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 11:54
Mostly Autumn released The Lord of the Rings in 2002. not bad, probably three stars when I get round to reviewing it.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
Posted By: Johnnytuba
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 16:34
I haven't really listened to any Tolkien based prog albums. I do like particular songs that have to do with LOTR, The Hobbit, and Tolkiens other works.
The Battle of Evermore, Ramble on - Led Zep
Nimrod/The Procession/The White Rider - Camel
I know there are a few others, but they seem to be escaping me at the moment.
------------- "The things that we're concealing, will never let us grow.
Time will do its healing, you've got to let it go.
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 17:21
Bo Hansson's Lord Of The Rings, showed what scandinavia mean't to Middle Earth. Tolkien's world is a religion, people need to get over that, films have been made about many religious themes, however making a movie of Silmarillion would be futile because it is a hsitory so immense.
Any music that has inspired creativity from Tolkien deserves plaudits, even Annie Lennox. I like to think of a lot of Zeppelin as deeply rooted in Tolkien culture.
Great thread and a bow to eru
-------------
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 19:07
Lozlan wrote:
Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track.
I tend to be very protective of Tolkien. I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text.
Now don't get me wrong. I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier. I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan. I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me. I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it. Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)
As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching their hands over their ears and wailing with fright. Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas. I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics. Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous. Or both.
Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest. There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals. There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping. Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee. However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside. I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul.
Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits? Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel.
EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
I agree with you, but I think albums like Nightfall definitely are more inspired by Middle-Earth than accurately describing it at all. There's a group called the Tolkien Ensemble that has set all of the poems and songs from the books- every single one- to music. It's actually pretty original for having the lyrics already written.
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 19:11
npjnpj wrote:
Hijack alert!
Hey moshkito, I might be wrong, but usually quite sensitive about these things; Is anything bugging you?
I find the Tolkien topic quite intersting, and I might participate if this thread somehow manages to get back on track. But I'm not the one whose going to try and do that at the moment.
Bad luck Eärendil. Try something less 'controversial' next time.
Yeah... I could do a poll that goes something like : Prog Genesis vs. Pop Genesis. That would be a little less open ended at least.
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 20:53
moshkito wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
J.R.R. Tolkien has had an immense influence on popular culture, especially on music. And what genre is most likely to take inspiration from elves and magic rings? If you answered prog rock, then you would be correct. (Well, maybe prog rock and power metal). So this is a thread to talk about your favorite Tolkien-based prog albums.
BS . () .. he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?
There were some folks that did nice things with it, and not always directly. The one that is most clear and open, was Bo Hansson.
(Parts of the post removed, since it indeed went off the track -- my apologies -- ... and for the record, at the time I did not speak enough English to be able to read that book at all. I did read it later, and I guess I would think that C.S. Lewis, Dion Fortune, Aleister Crowley, Carlos Castaneda, and a lot of other more mystical work was more important to me. In the end, Tolkien's work is a wonderful story ... that has unbelievably good creativity and visual content, the likes of which was not even found in the European history of so many fables in the past 500 years -- many of which went on to inspire "progressive music" by more than one band.)
I like this comment more. No hard feelings. I've read some of their stuff too for the record.
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 20:59
chopper wrote:
Just to correct you on Bakshi's cartoon. It wasn't condensed into an hour and a half, he never actually finished it.
That movie made the rounds big time and it wasn't perfect but it was fairly with it ... saw this in Santa Barbara along with another Chack cartoon film that won an Oscar at the time and the name fails me right now. It was very political.
The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose"", that would actually be just the one bit of music influenced by it then? What are the other ones apart from Camel?
Camel did not write "The Snow Goose" ... they interpreted it with music.
My thoughts were that by the time "Snow Goose" came out by Camel, I kinda thought that folks here in America would think that Bach's Jonathan Livingston Seagull was better ... it was simpler, not better in my book.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 21:20
Lozlan wrote:
EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
That's so sad ... to criticize a man taking a shot at puting something together that was vistually impossible. And the cartoon itself is not bad and featured some of the very first use of motion by humans to make the cartoons more realistic in their vision of the book.
It may not have been great, at least compared to the opus done almost 30 years later, but the language of film did not have the ability or desire to create such a thing. That Bashki, defied the odds is commendable and deserves some credit.
For music ... I never really found some of the music things that were done, really were doing the whole thing a good enough credit. I thought they might have been inspired by ... but in the end, that's like me saying that my music is inspired by God and the Christian Book ... in the end you are probably going to laugh when you listen to the music and you can't find a connection ...
And the other option is someone creating lyrics, like Jon Anderson is very capable of, that also incorporate a lot of these books ... but it is well hidden ... until you find a song about it later ... I think he was worried about trying to do that and how people would feel. In my book, even though it is not the same thing, Olias of Sunhillow is much close to the concept and vision of Tolkien than anything else ... every time I hear that .. specially now ... I see the movie ... it's uncanny!
The others I can't speak for, except the Hawkwind bit ... which is another story in my book, and although a mention, it is not about the book at all ... it's something else. It's just like hearing the "Electric Tepee" ending bit ... it's a modernization of the idea that is different and time displacing fo rmany of us.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 00:22
Eärendil wrote:
There's a group called the Tolkien Ensemble that has set all of the poems and songs from the books- every single one- to music. It's actually pretty original for having the lyrics already written.
Curses, my plans are ruined! I've had a sort of dream for a while to set everything to music, but I lack the ability to write interesting music. How is their stuff? I'll have to check it out and see what kind of competition I'll have if I ever do get around to making my versions.
That movie made the rounds big time and it wasn't perfect but it was fairly with it ... saw this in Santa Barbara along with another Chack cartoon film that won an Oscar at the time and the name fails me right now. It was very political.
The book that really had more music influenced to it and by it, was actually a take on an English novel called "The Snow Goose"", that would actually be just the one bit of music influenced by it then? What are the other ones apart from Camel?
Camel did not write "The Snow Goose" ... they interpreted it with music.
My thoughts were that by the time "Snow Goose" came out by Camel, I kinda thought that folks here in America would think that Bach's Jonathan Livingston Seagull was better ... it was simpler, not better in my book.
I'm quite aware that Camel did not write "The Snow Goose", that wasn't my point. You said that The Snow Goose is the book that had more music influenced "to it" (which makes no sense) and by it. My point was that Camel's album is the only one I'm aware of that is an interpretation of or influenced by the book, so what are the others?
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 15:44
SaltyJon wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
There's a group called the Tolkien Ensemble that has set all of the poems and songs from the books- every single one- to music. It's actually pretty original for having the lyrics already written.
Curses, my plans are ruined! I've had a sort of dream for a while to set everything to music, but I lack the ability to write interesting music. How is their stuff? I'll have to check it out and see what kind of competition I'll have if I ever do get around to making my versions.
It's a lot of folk and some chamber stuff. It's about 4 hours worth of music though so you'll have quite a job ahead of you. Go for it though I got the 4 cd set from Amazon for about $40 a while ago, but now the cheapest there is $150. . Youtube maybe?
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 15:47
Eärendil wrote:
SaltyJon wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
There's a group called the Tolkien Ensemble that has set all of the poems and songs from the books- every single one- to music. It's actually pretty original for having the lyrics already written.
Curses, my plans are ruined! I've had a sort of dream for a while to set everything to music, but I lack the ability to write interesting music. How is their stuff? I'll have to check it out and see what kind of competition I'll have if I ever do get around to making my versions.
It's a lot of folk and some chamber stuff. It's about 4 hours worth of music though so you'll have quite a job ahead of you. Go for it though I got the 4 cd set from Amazon for about $40 a while ago, but now the cheapest there is $150. . Youtube maybe?
Hmm...based on that description I'm definitely interested. I'll have to try to find a copy for less than $150 though.
Posted By: Lozlan
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 17:06
moshkito wrote:
Lozlan wrote:
EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
That's so sad ... to criticize a man taking a shot at puting something together that was vistually impossible. And the cartoon itself is not bad and featured some of the very first use of motion by humans to make the cartoons more realistic in their vision of the book.
It may not have been great, at least compared to the opus done almost 30 years later, but the language of film did not have the ability or desire to create such a thing. That Bashki, defied the odds is commendable and deserves some credit.
Where Tolkien is involved, I don't compromise. I have a lot of fundamental problems with the Jackson films as well.
------------- Certified Obscure Prog Fart.
http://scottjcouturier.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 19:16
Lozlan wrote:
moshkito wrote:
Lozlan wrote:
EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
That's so sad ... to criticize a man taking a shot at puting something together that was vistually impossible. And the cartoon itself is not bad and featured some of the very first use of motion by humans to make the cartoons more realistic in their vision of the book.It may not have been great, at least compared to the opus done almost 30 years later, but the language of film did not have the ability or desire to create such a thing. That Bashki, defied the odds is commendable and deserves some credit.
Where Tolkien is involved, I don't compromise. I have a lot of fundamental problems with the Jackson films as well.
Just playing around with these quote boxes to see if I can make them more manageable. Don't you just hate it when quotes embedded ad infinitum take up the entire page?
Oh, and don't waste your time on Moshkito. What is that, anyway? The audible of a drunk slurring the word mosquito? As in: I'm gunna shmash that shtupid moshkito ash shoon ash the room shtops shpinningBURP!
Posted By: Nerd42
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 12:02
Rick Wakeman and Glass Hammer did Middle Earth stuff too. I haven't found any LOTR prog that I actually like yet though.
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 13:49
For background I started reading the Lord of the Rings in high school back in 1972 and have read almost everything of Tolkien's since. I don't have problems with the Jackson films because it is impossible to bring the story as written to a shorter medium like film. He did about as well as anyone could of. I have some disagreements with some things but they are minor as compared to retaining the spirit of the work which is where Bashki failed. I understand his problems, time and money constraint. I went to theater the day it was released hoping against hope to find something that worked. I was entirely disappointed with the film right after the hobbits left the shire. To this day I cannot watch that movie with out falling asleep. Don't even get me started about the low budget TV cartoons for the Hobbit and ROTK.
In far contrast the Jackson movies were better than my expectation. The first thing he did right was drafting artists Lee and Howe to create image of the world. They did a fantastic job on the sets. The other was finding places in not well known New Zealand to film his backdrops. I was very happy coming out of the Fellowship and seeing what he had done. No, I was amazed because after the Bashki failure i felt this work would never see the screen in my lifetime and there was The party tree and Moria in all it's glory and Rivendell in all of its organic splendor.
Getting back on topic I find very little rock music that makes me want to sit back back and listen to the world of Middle Earth more than Howard Shores soundtracks. I purchased the full movie scores for each movie (these are not the one cd soundtracks. They are the complete movie scores) for Stacy for Christmas a few years ago and I still play those as to me the definitive music of Tolkien. The only rock song that i ever felt could have joined that is the Battle of Evermore by Led Zeppelin. Very organic, earthy and mysterious.
-------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 23:29
^ My thoughts exactly. Every single word. Except I was in Junior High. And I haven't bought the soundtracks. And I don't know Stacy. I might add "Nights in White Satin" because it was still a radio hit while I was reading LOTR. I just thought of it as "Knights in White Satin." Also, that poem at the end captured the mystery of that fantasy world for me. Good post, man!
Posted By: Garion81
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 23:05
^Glad you get it Ronnie. I seem to kill more threads with my posts than inspire new dialog.
Anyway Stacy is my finance' and shares my love of prog music. These are the soundtracks I am talking about
BTW The Pentangle would be a band I would love to hear do a take on Middle Earth.
-------------
"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: January 02 2011 at 14:12
Bands: Mithrandir Lothlorien - at least 3 bands Moria Iluvatar Marillion Rivendell Nazgul Shadowfax Gandalf Valinor's Tree
Tracks: Trader Horn - 3 rings for elven kings Anyones Daughter -Moria Vulcan's Hammer -grey havens Yavanna - goddess Barklay James Harvest -Galadriel Argent - Lothlorien Isildure's Bane - Bilbo St Elmo's Fire -confrontations of Balrog Creef - Took Neon Philharmonic -Mordor Seguin - Galadriel Pearls Before Swine -ringthing Par Lindh - Bilbo Sam Gopal -dark lord Fire- tell you a story
LPs: Sally Oldfield -waterbearer (side 1) Sabates - senyor des ocelles Isildurs Bane - Sagan om ringen
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: January 02 2011 at 21:21
^ Not to mention Music Inspired by Lord of the Rings by Bo Hansson
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 02 2011 at 21:32
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
^ Not to mention Music Inspired by Lord of the Rings by Bo Hansson
Amazing how this original version gets a mere cursory flick or click of a mouse. People don't know what they are missing. Thanks for highlighting that
-------------
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: January 02 2011 at 21:38
^Thanks, Bo. You are Bo Hansson using the screen name Chris S, right?
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 02 2011 at 21:42
Possibly......or just fog on barrow downs......
-------------
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: January 02 2011 at 22:03
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
^Thanks, Bo. You are Bo Hansson using the screen name Chris S, right?
Bosse is with the dead.
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 10:59
Lozlan:
(I apologize to all for taking the conversation slightly off-topic again, but I cannot let Lozlan's comments go unanswered.)
For someone so "protective" of Tolkien, your dislike of the Bakshi film - and patricularly your claim that the Jackson version was more faithful - is odd. In fact, Bakshi's version is FAR more faithful to the material it covers than Jackson's versions. Just a few examples. Jackson deliberately weaves the Aragorn/Arwen story (which is an appendix to the trilogy) into the film, creating scenes that are not only not faithful to the trilogy, but actually bog down the story. Also, Bakshi correctly ascribes the rising of the Anduin against the Black Riders to Elrond (not Arwen!), and the "horse waves" to Gandalf (not Arwen!). As well, Bakshi's rendering of the Council of Elrond (the discussion of the fate of the ring) is LEAGUES moe accurate than Jackson's. Finally, Bakshi sticks far more faithfully to the actual dialogue in the trilogy, where Jackson kepts perhaps 50%.
Jackson's trilogy is certainly fabulous, and deserves its place in the pantheon of great cinematic achievements, in many ways. But it is NOT as "faithful" to the books as Baskhi is.
Peace.
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 11:05
Caravan - In the land of grey and pink
Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 13:20
Okay then, I'll swallow: what does that particular Caravan have to do with Tolkers?
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 14:46
BTW, today (Jan. 3) is Tolkien's birthday...
(Also, I didn't see any mention of Zep's "Ramble On"...)
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 20:46
From In Elven Lands, this is one of my favorite tracks on the album and
quite possibly the best Jon Anderson track ever. I couldn't find a video
of it anywhere though and I can't post my mp3 of it, so here's the
amazon preview of it. Sorry I couldn't get the full song.
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 20:47
Baggra wrote:
Okay then, I'll swallow: what does that particular Caravan have to do with Tolkers?
hmmmm.... nothing?
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 03 2011 at 21:01
^ You have to love the album and concept to really know get what he is saying
-------------
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Posted By: Yeopig
Date Posted: January 04 2011 at 16:25
Hey guys, our band, Gandalf's Fist, had a hell of a lot of tolkien influences (duh!) but we've somehow moved away from that for our latest recording project as the percussionist wanted to record a concept album that he'd written about a fascist frog that befriends a talking monkey.....i miss the hobbits myself!
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: January 04 2011 at 16:46
I want to explain something.The lyrics of Winter wine and the artwork of In the land of grey and pink are influenced by Tolkien.Generally it contains Tolkien-esque fantasy.
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 04 2011 at 21:08
Well if someone's obsession for Tolkien and obsession for music combined and had a child which controlled their mind then ate them, it might look like this: http://%20www.tolkien-music.com/" rel="nofollow -
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 04 2011 at 22:24
Eärendil wrote:
From In Elven Lands, this is one of my favorite tracks on the album and
quite possibly the best Jon Anderson track ever. I couldn't find a video
of it anywhere though and I can't post my mp3 of it, so here's the
amazon preview of it. Sorry I couldn't get the full song.
I've been curious about this album for a while, and having heard this samples makes me want to get it even more... but it seems it is a bit too expensive on Amazon
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 04 2011 at 23:11
Dellinger wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
From In Elven Lands, this is one of my favorite tracks on the album and
quite possibly the best Jon Anderson track ever. I couldn't find a video
of it anywhere though and I can't post my mp3 of it, so here's the
amazon preview of it. Sorry I couldn't get the full song.
I've been curious about this album for a while, and having heard this samples makes me want to get it even more... but it seems it is a bit too expensive on Amazon
They have a couple imports for $20. That's the cheapest you're gonna find them for. And just so you know, there are only a few tracks with Jon Anderson, though the whole album is excellent.
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 08:08
Prog Geo:
"The lyrics of Winter Wine and the artwork of In the Land of Grey and Pink are influenced by Tolkien. Generally, it contains Tolkien-esque fantasy."
Re Winter Wine, not so. Not every lyric that includes dragons is Tolkien-esque. There were no "knights in golden armor" in LOTR, no "maids" saved from dragons, etc. The lyrics certainly have a medieval quality, but, no, they are not about anything Tolkien-esque. As for the artwork, I suppose one could interpret it as The Shire on acid (though hobbit homes did not have thatched roofs). But that may or may not be what was intended.
Peace.
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 08:16
Sorry guys for telling you wrong things.I want you all to know something.I don't write something if I'm not sure or if I haven't seen something.Ok!!!
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 16:49
Prog Geo wrote:
Sorry guys for telling you wrong things.I want you all to know something.I don't write something if I'm not sure or if I haven't seen something.Ok!!!
I forgive you
Posted By: Prog Geo
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 16:55
Good for you!!!
Posted By: Lozlan
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 20:02
maani wrote:
Lozlan:
(I apologize to all for taking the conversation slightly off-topic again, but I cannot let Lozlan's comments go unanswered.)
For someone so "protective" of Tolkien, your dislike of the Bakshi film - and patricularly your claim that the Jackson version was more faithful - is odd. In fact, Bakshi's version is FAR more faithful to the material it covers than Jackson's versions. Just a few examples. Jackson deliberately weaves the Aragorn/Arwen story (which is an appendix to the trilogy) into the film, creating scenes that are not only not faithful to the trilogy, but actually bog down the story. Also, Bakshi correctly ascribes the rising of the Anduin against the Black Riders to Elrond (not Arwen!), and the "horse waves" to Gandalf (not Arwen!). As well, Bakshi's rendering of the Council of Elrond (the discussion of the fate of the ring) is LEAGUES moe accurate than Jackson's. Finally, Bakshi sticks far more faithfully to the actual dialogue in the trilogy, where Jackson kepts perhaps 50%.
Jackson's trilogy is certainly fabulous, and deserves its place in the pantheon of great cinematic achievements, in many ways. But it is NOT as "faithful" to the books as Baskhi is.
Peace.
I'm well aware of the differences and similarities between these texts. I had read/watched them all more times than there are rings in the trunk of Methuselah. Nor do I remember making any comments about the 'faithfulness' of an adaptation, per se - the most loyal adaptation of The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe is the hideous and nigh-unwatchable animated version, which quotes the source text verbatim. Adherence to a text does not, in any way, equate artistry.
The Bakshi adaptation is, to my eyes, a complete misunderstanding of the point and purpose of Tolkien's text. It contains no beauty or subtlety. The Jackson adaptations do manage, on occasion, to capture the essence of a moment (primarily in the first film; Jackson's Return of the King is so loaded down with chronological inconsistencies and invented material that I hardly feel like it constitutes a proper adaptation). This is all in the vein of the first two Harry Potter films, directed by that perennial clunker Chris Columbus. Philosopher's Stone and Chamber of Secrets were highly criticized at the time for slavishly following the plots of the books without contributing anything beyond the scope of those texts. They remain the most unwatchable/most devoted films in the series.
Forgive any sharpness in this post. Had a very bad day. I similarly extend yon olive branch. If the Bakshi does something for you, kudos. I just can't imagine watching those sloppy, buffoonish hobbit portrayals without bursting into laughter and/or rage.
------------- Certified Obscure Prog Fart.
http://scottjcouturier.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Loose Palace of Exile - My first novel, The Mask of Tamrel, now available on Amazon and Kindle
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 21:52
Lozlan wrote:
maani wrote:
Lozlan:
(I apologize to all for taking the conversation slightly off-topic again, but I cannot let Lozlan's comments go unanswered.)
For someone so "protective" of Tolkien, your dislike of the Bakshi film - and patricularly your claim that the Jackson version was more faithful - is odd. In fact, Bakshi's version is FAR more faithful to the material it covers than Jackson's versions. Just a few examples. Jackson deliberately weaves the Aragorn/Arwen story (which is an appendix to the trilogy) into the film, creating scenes that are not only not faithful to the trilogy, but actually bog down the story. Also, Bakshi correctly ascribes the rising of the Anduin against the Black Riders to Elrond (not Arwen!), and the "horse waves" to Gandalf (not Arwen!). As well, Bakshi's rendering of the Council of Elrond (the discussion of the fate of the ring) is LEAGUES moe accurate than Jackson's. Finally, Bakshi sticks far more faithfully to the actual dialogue in the trilogy, where Jackson kepts perhaps 50%.
Jackson's trilogy is certainly fabulous, and deserves its place in the pantheon of great cinematic achievements, in many ways. But it is NOT as "faithful" to the books as Baskhi is.
Peace.
I'm well aware of the differences and similarities between these texts. I had read/watched them all more times than there are rings in the trunk of Methuselah. Nor do I remember making any comments about the 'faithfulness' of an adaptation, per se - the most loyal adaptation of The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe is the hideous and nigh-unwatchable animated version, which quotes the source text verbatim. Adherence to a text does not, in any way, equate artistry.
The Bakshi adaptation is, to my eyes, a complete misunderstanding of the point and purpose of Tolkien's text. It contains no beauty or subtlety. The Jackson adaptations do manage, on occasion, to capture the essence of a moment (primarily in the first film; Jackson's Return of the King is so loaded down with chronological inconsistencies and invented material that I hardly feel like it constitutes a proper adaptation). This is all in the vein of the first two Harry Potter films, directed by that perennial clunker Chris Columbus. Philosopher's Stone and Chamber of Secrets were highly criticized at the time for slavishly following the plots of the books without contributing anything beyond the scope of those texts. They remain the most unwatchable/most devoted films in the series.
Forgive any sharpness in this post. Had a very bad day. I similarly extend yon olive branch. If the Bakshi does something for you, kudos. I just can't imagine watching those sloppy, buffoonish hobbit portrayals without bursting into laughter and/or rage.
That does bring up an excellent point about the feel of the adaption. Although there are some parts of the Jackson films that feel "Hollywood", I think overall it has that epic, natural and innocent feel of Tolkien's world. That said, Baskhi's adaption was perhaps good for the technological limits of the time, and truer to the book, but something is missing from it IMO.
Similarly, I tried the Lord of the Rings Online MMPORG demo, and I couldn't do it. All the positive reviews for it didn't change the fact that it wasn't Middle Earth. It was a typical run and collect items for a reward and slowly level up, video game, with no feel of delicacy.
I think we need to just appreciate the different aspects in which adaptions succeed and not be too critical (not saying that you guys are). All of them get things right and get things wrong. Some get more wrong than right (the animated movie with the singing elf in Rivendell). That's my take, though I totally understand when people feel insulted by adaptions that twist the story too much.
Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 22:49
chopper wrote:
Lozlan wrote:
Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track.I tend to be very protective of Tolkien. I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text. Now don't get me wrong. I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier. I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan. I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me. I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it. Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching their hands over their ears and wailing with fright. Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas. I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics. Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous. Or both.Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest. There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals. There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping. Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee. However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside. I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul.Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits? Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel.EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
I quite like the Bakshi cartoon!
Anyway, I guess the reason nobody's written a song about Hobbits is that there is a danger of it sounding very silly. I also have to disagree with you about Rush's Necromancer, the whole thing makes me laugh (I think it's the narrator's voice).
Wrong!!!
There is one prog song about Hobbits...
Schlomo Gronich and Shem-Tov Levi's Hobbits' Dance:
it is a nice piece of music....
And nobody mentioned progy new age multi-instrumentalist Gandalf (he also released an album with Steve Hackett... have someone listened to it? How is it?)
------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 05 2011 at 23:05
Eärendil wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Eärendil wrote:
From In Elven Lands, this is one of my favorite tracks on the album and
quite possibly the best Jon Anderson track ever. I couldn't find a video
of it anywhere though and I can't post my mp3 of it, so here's the
amazon preview of it. Sorry I couldn't get the full song.
I've been curious about this album for a while, and having heard this samples makes me want to get it even more... but it seems it is a bit too expensive on Amazon
They have a couple imports for $20. That's the cheapest you're gonna find them for. And just so you know, there are only a few tracks with Jon Anderson, though the whole album is excellent.
Thanks, I hope to be able to get that album sometime in this year. And yes, I had noticed Anderson doesn't sing on all this songs, and that most songs (for what little can be heard on the link from each one) are very nice.
By the way, there's a David Arkenstone album about Middle Earth which, though not prog at all, I found more rewarding than I was expecting when I bought it; it is all instrumental and in general rather beautiful.
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: January 06 2011 at 09:23
Lozlan and Earendil:
One man's "slavishness" is another man's "authenticity." And while I agree that "faithfulness" to the text does not always equal "quality" filmmaking (or even storytelling), I believe that a large part of why people see "slavishness" (and "bad" storytelling/filmmaking) instead of "authenticity/faithfulness" (but "good" storytelling/filmmaking) is patience and attention span. Let me give you an example.
When the film Watchmen came out, there were two very polar camps. One felt that the slavish devotion to the original story "bogged down" the film. The other camp felt that the film was actually "enhanced" by the faithfulness to the original source, and not "giving in" to the Hollywood temptation to remove or simplify subtexts, or excise material simply to have the film run more "smoothly." (Still a third camp argued that it was not faithful ENOUGH!) This debate raged in the pages of major newspapers and magazines.
I came to the film not having read the original source material, and thus was completely neutral in the debate, though I knew it was occurring. Having seen the film, I found myself agreeing with the second group, even though I agree that the film did have a few "slower' parts, and that it might have been more continuously "eye-catching" (read "action-packed") had they been excised. But I appreciated that the filmmakers stayed true to the source, even at the risk of "slowing down" the film (read "making people think" and - OMG! - show some patience...).
I have not suggested that Jackson's films are anything but a towering achievement, including in their depiction of Tolkien's world, and even re storytelling and filmmaking. However, I believe that at least part (if not much) of the problem you have with Bakshi's version is impatience with the "slavishness" (faithfulness) to the source, since the film may not seem to "flow" as well as it might otherwise.
Ultimately, both versions have their merits; denigrating one while lauding the other is simply wrong.
Peace.
P.S. BTW, at the risk of sounding "one-upping," Lozlan, I don't know how old you are, but I would guess I am somewhat older than you. In this regard, having read all of Tolkien (including the obscure stuff) at least 30 times, I feel as strongly as you do about Middle Earth and Tolkien's vision. This was why I was SO annoyed with Jackson for adding the Aragorn/Arwen story INTO the screenplay (thus bogging it down), and ascribing the river-rising and water-horse aspects of the Battle of the Ford at Bruinen to Arwen rather than Elrond and Gandalf. (Of course, neither film has the right person taking Frodo to Rivendell; in Bakshi, it is Legolas; in Jackson, it is Arwen. Neither is correct.) I am equally annoyed with Jackson for spending three years and zillions of dollars, and then NOT including the Scouring of the Shire (even though he showed it in Galadriel's mirror!), and Frodo and Gandalf's departure from Middle Earth.
Posted By: Ian F.
Date Posted: January 08 2011 at 19:35
Ah, I was going to say the exact same thing
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 08 2011 at 20:30
maani wrote:
I have not suggested that Jackson's films are anything but a towering achievement, including in their depiction of Tolkien's world, and even re storytelling and filmmaking. However, I believe that at least part (if not much) of the problem you have with Bakshi's version is impatience with the "slavishness" (faithfulness) to the source, since the film may not seem to "flow" as well as it might otherwise.
Ultimately, both versions have their merits; denigrating one while lauding the other is simply wrong.
Peace.
P.S. BTW, at the risk of sounding "one-upping," Lozlan, I don't know how old you are, but I would guess I am somewhat older than you. In this regard, having read all of Tolkien (including the obscure stuff) at least 30 times, I feel as strongly as you do about Middle Earth and Tolkien's vision. This was why I was SO annoyed with Jackson for adding the Aragorn/Arwen story INTO the screenplay (thus bogging it down), and ascribing the river-rising and water-horse aspects of the Battle of the Ford at Bruinen to Arwen rather than Elrond and Gandalf. (Of course, neither film has the right person taking Frodo to Rivendell; in Bakshi, it is Legolas; in Jackson, it is Arwen. Neither is correct.) I am equally annoyed with Jackson for spending three years and zillions of dollars, and then NOT including the Scouring of the Shire (even though he showed it in Galadriel's mirror!), and Frodo and Gandalf's departure from Middle Earth.
Yeah whatver ever happend to Glorfindel and what about the mystery surrounding him??? First age v Third Age? Same person? The only flaw in Tolkiens history and Glorfindol should have been the one to escort the hobbits with Aragorn to Bruinen.
-------------
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Posted By: The Deacon
Date Posted: January 09 2011 at 10:55
Here are some tracks from my collection (prog,folk & psych):
Arkangel - march of Ents (US)
Skip Bifferty - hobbit (UK)
Black Sun Ensemble - riders of Rohan (US)
Citadel of Cynosure - escaping Nepthon (US)
Mickey D's Unicorn - black rider -a elbereth (I think German, because on Schultze's label)
Elephant's Memory - old man willow (Us)
Gandalf - mysterious creatures gathering at gates of darkness (Austria)
Gandalf the Grey - from Grey Havens (US)
Patrick Gleason - hobbits are dancing (UK)
Harmonia -Gollum (germ)
Hobbits - down to middleearth (US)
Improved Sound Ltd - dark lord (germ)
Jade Warrior - Barazinbar (uk)
Kandahar - hobbit (belgium)
Khazad-Dum - Balrog descending (Can)
John Lees - long ships (Uk)
Madrugada - hobbit (IT)
Neigb'rhood Children - hobbit's dream (US?)
Didier Paquette - cavaliers de Rohan (Fr)
Dave Pike Set - Middle Earth Heard (Uk)
Prudence - Gandalf (Norway)
Tables - Lord of Rings (Nor)
Try - Bilbo Baggins (Germ)
Twink - unexpected party (Uk)
Vulcans Hammer - ri (UK)
Adrian Wagner - ring lords (Uk)
Posted By: The Deacon
Date Posted: January 10 2011 at 08:37
Since this thread has (most predictably) gone off-topic bigtime, few should be further grieved if one should ask of the anoraks here:
whats good (Christopher) Tolkien reading after "Silmarillion"?
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: January 10 2011 at 22:16
^ The Children of Hurin, it's a book about Turin Turambar (mainly the same story found on The Silmarillion, but more complete).
Posted By: Livae
Date Posted: January 11 2011 at 06:01
Ainur are an italian band inspired by Tolkien's Silmarillion.
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: January 11 2011 at 14:07
Big thanks to ProgressivAttic for posting that Youtube clip. I really enjoyed it.
Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: January 11 2011 at 23:55
silverpot wrote:
Big thanks to ProgressivAttic for posting that Youtube clip. I really enjoyed it.
You're welcome! If you enjoyed it check out the other projects by these guys (not much more Tolkien inspired material though...)... I'll give you some samples:
*Ktzat Acheret (their collaboration with virtuoso guitarist Schlomo Ydov)
*Singer/keyboardist Schlomo Gronich (he is more of an Avant-Garde musician with strong prog inclinations):
*Shem-Tov Levi (very jazz/fusion inclined):
Since this is a Tolkien thread lets include some Tolkien inspired prog to return to the subject:
Who remembers that classical piece inspired by LOTR?
------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
Posted By: silverpot
Date Posted: January 12 2011 at 15:00
Of course I remember Isildurs Bane.
And thanks for the other clips.
Posted By: Fyrus
Date Posted: January 14 2011 at 05:31
"all their life on Tolkien's ground"
Fandango - Pain of Salvation.
Posted By: Ronnie Pilgrim
Date Posted: January 16 2011 at 20:32
How about Tolkien in progressive comedy? A poster on another thread made me think of this but I thought it was more suited to this thread. It's a wee bit long but well worth it. Enjoy.
Posted By: CloseToTheMoon
Date Posted: January 17 2011 at 13:53
I've been wanting to re-edit scenes from the LoTR Trilogy using Prog as the score, Tolkien inspired or otherwise. Anyone know if this would be easier with iMovie, or Adobe Premiere?
------------- It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: January 17 2011 at 14:00
CloseToTheMoon wrote:
I've been wanting to re-edit scenes from the LoTR Trilogy using Prog as the score, Tolkien inspired or otherwise. Anyone know if this would be easier with iMovie, or Adobe Premiere?
I don't know, but be sure to post them somewhere if you do!
Posted By: CloseToTheMoon
Date Posted: January 18 2011 at 07:48
Will do. I'm starting a short playlist and compiling my favorite scenes as we speak.
------------- It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen.
Posted By: Nerd42
Date Posted: January 18 2011 at 17:09
i wish there was more Lewis prog like http://www.ghostsandspirits.net/the-album/" rel="nofollow - this . Somebody should do a prog version of "Perelandra" or "That Hideous Strength"
Posted By: ProgressiveAttic
Date Posted: January 18 2011 at 23:46
Nerd42 wrote:
i wish there was more Lewis prog like http://www.ghostsandspirits.net/the-album/" rel="nofollow - this . Somebody should do a prog version of "Perelandra" or "That Hideous Strength"
Like this?
------------- Michael's Sonic Kaleidoscope Mondays 5:00pm EST(re-runs Thursdays 3:00pm) @ Delicious Agony Progressive Rock Radio(http://www.deliciousagony.com)
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 19 2011 at 04:13
ProgressiveAttic wrote:
chopper wrote:
Lozlan wrote:
Okay, then...apparently it falls to me to bring this derailed thread back on track.I tend to be very protective of Tolkien. I'm a devout fan of his work, ranging from Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion to the more obscure and quixotic Histories of Middle Earth; as such I tend to be pretty critical of artistic reinterpretations or representations of his world and text. Now don't get me wrong. I love a good, heavy, crushing guitar line as much as the next pervy Hobbit fancier. I had my period of Hammerfall obsession, and I even went so far as to pick up Blind Guardian's Nightfall In Middle-Earth when I was a much younger, much more naive prog fan. I realized pretty damn quickly that setting the mythology of Tolkien's obsessively detailed, perfectly aesthetic world to a heavy metal power-chord orgy was complete anathema to me. I gave the album to a friend of mine, who also hated it. Similarly I tried and tried and tried to get into Glass Hammer's Middle-Earth Album, and failed miserably; of course, that could have something to do with the fact that I actively dislike pretty much everything Glass Hammer has ever recorded.<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)As a result of my Blind Guardian-related disillusionment, I tend to be pretty leery of Tolkien-influenced music, especially where metal is involved...I can't help but visualize a gathering of peaceful, merry Hobbits clutching their hands over their ears and wailing with fright. Similarly, imagining a bunch of headbanging Norsemen in a Rohirric mead hall gives me gas. I do enjoy some of the subtler, more fluid Tolkien-inspired prog: a classic example of this would be Nimrodel/The Procession/The White Rider by Camel, which benefits from not going overboard on the lyrics. Similarly, I enjoy the way Led Zeppelin peppers their lyrics with Middle-Earth imagery, and The Necromancer by Rush is a great example of paying tribute without making said tribute comical or thunderous. Or both.Really I genuinely believe that Middle-Earth does not rock in the slightest. There is nothing progressive, nothing brash or rebellious about Tolkien's narrative; rather we have a return to pre-Industrial simplicities and ideals. There is a teleology at play which defies rock n' roll, not to mention automobiles and smokestacks and every other modernist trapping. Tolkien rock feels alien, and wrong, and very misguided, at least to this joint Tolkienist and progressive rock devotee. However, it also kind of makes me feel a little warm and fuzzy inside. I love watching people who love a text interact with that text, whether their interaction takes the form of a simple blog post or a sprawling double-album replete with a gatefold designed to imitate the Book of Mazarbul.Also, just on a closing note, is there some reason that no one ever records prog songs about Hobbits? Everyone is so busy writing about Elves, and Dark Lords, and battles, and swords, that they miss what's really important in Tolkien's work: tiny little people with hairy feet and huge appetites and wills of tempered steel.EDIT: Anyone who thinks that Ralph Bakshi's horrible, horrible animated Lord of the Rings even remotely approaches the glory and eucatastrophe of Tolkien's masterpiece should be fed to a fuzzy-slipper-wearing Balrog. Give me the animated Rankin-Bass Return of the King before you force me to endure such blinding crap.
I quite like the Bakshi cartoon!
Anyway, I guess the reason nobody's written a song about Hobbits is that there is a danger of it sounding very silly. I also have to disagree with you about Rush's Necromancer, the whole thing makes me laugh (I think it's the narrator's voice).
Wrong!!!
There is one prog song about Hobbits...
Schlomo Gronich and Shem-Tov Levi's Hobbits' Dance:
it is a nice piece of music....
And nobody mentioned progy new age multi-instrumentalist Gandalf (he also released an album with Steve Hackett... have someone listened to it? How is it?)
Beautiful stuff....thanks for sharing
-------------
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
Posted By: Ian F.
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 16:00
) .. he's influenced more dope/drinking people than ever ... and if you think the movie audience did any better, you're kidding me, right?
Eärendil wrote:
<---(my reaction to most contemporary symphonic prog.)
No hard feelings. I've read some of their stuff too for the record.
I got the 4 cd set from Amazon for about $40 a while ago, but now the cheapest there is $150. 
. Youtube maybe?
I want you all to know something.I don't write something if I'm not sure or if I haven't seen something.Ok!!!
