"Rewards repeated listening"
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73659
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Topic: "Rewards repeated listening"
Posted By: paganinio
Subject: "Rewards repeated listening"
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:43
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I see this phrase in reviews a lot. X album "invites and rewards repeated listening", as if other albums didn't. Stop using this phrase! Every album rewards repeated listening! You're losing credibility as a critic when you put this phrase in a review! By the way, I really don't like critics who listen to an album only five or six times and then write a review. When they do that, their opinions are horribly immature and uninformed. Unlike video games and movies, music is meant for repeated listenings, over a long period of time. ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:50
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Six times is a lot of times to listen to an album in a short period of time. And some albums are much less suited for repeats than others. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:54
Well, it seems like about five to six is generally good to get your mind around an album to write a review. I guess it really is a matter of how attentive you have been listening to it. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 19:56
| It usually means the album will only be properly appreciated after listening to it several times. Or it could also mean it won't get boring after many sessions. Some albums grab you from the get-go. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:02
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In fact there are albums that seem to get worse the more times you listen to them. For example, I used to be a big fan of They Might Be Giants, but the more I listened to them, the less clever they seemed. Also, some albums take a long time to get into, while others are pretty accessible from the first listen. It's going to take most people longer to "get" Trout Mask Replica than Wish You Were Here. I think that is what the phrase refers to. As for your second point, again it depends on the album. Five or six listens is more than enough for some albums, but barely scratches the surface of others. ------------- 
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Posted By: zappaholic
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:04
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One-word translation: grower. ------------- "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." -- H.L. Mencken |
Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:28
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okay, I disagree with some of you. I think every album is a grower, especially since we're discussing in the "Prog Music Lounge" forum. I can't think of any prog music that doesn't reward repeated listenings. Therefore, it's redundant to mention it in a prog album review, don't you think? -------------
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Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:29
The more I listen to Porcupine Tree the more I dislike it and Steve Wilson, so no, I would say that rewarding repeated listens is a matter of a opinion, even in prog. ------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you |
paganinio wrote:Posted By: Proletariat
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:33
------------- who hiccuped endlessly trying to giggle but wound up with a sob |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 20:43
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I'm sorry, there are more than a few albums I want as far away from me as possible after the first listen. So no, not every album deserves repeated listens. And really, I see little problem with the statement in a review. You are welcome to your own criteria on the validity of reviews. I do not, however, share the same opinion that music is subject to different chronological context constraints than any other art form for the sake of review. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:11
I like how you mandate how we're not intelligent enough to listen to music ... to say that.
I won't take offense, but you have to know when someone is jingling your bells or simply adding words to a review ... if you didn't like someone's review, read another for crying out loud, because that is not the guy/gal that you want to learn something from ...
One last thing ... if you don't like reviews, why don't you find out for yourself, then?
It is way too easy to criticize reviews ... but have nothing to replace them with. Suggestion from a very experienced reviewer with many reviews of films in the Internet Movie Database ... shut up! and write your own!
In the end, why do you have to be told something is good or not? ... you can't tell? ... just admit it ... or you're lazy? ... what's the issue here?
We're people, just like you. So, if you don't like (for example) my review for King Crimson's first album, at least you know I didn't tell you to go listen to it 100 times to finally find out what that 31/32 beat was, because to me that is not a review ... that is someone telling you that they know music and that they don't think that the specific piece of music is not good enough! And I will tell you that person didn't listen to the music at all!
Example ... in school in Santa Barbara, the Theater department had a massive issue with the English department ... you know why? ... the turkeys in the English department never came to see a play because they all thought that the English or Iambic pentameter was incorrect ... they don't believe in theater ... just their scholarship ...and we all thought that all the professors in that department had small stix and din't know sex from a play from anything else in their life! We used to joke that most of those professors just needed to get laid! ... maybe even stoned once in a while! ... how's that for bad some 30 years ago!
It isn't the same here? ... oh my word! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:21
I feel that way about Frank Zappa.
I just noticed that. You don't think movies reward repeated viewings? There are classic films that I've seen a dozen or more times and still find something new in them every time. You're just being silly. Also, video games are intended to be played over and over again, although I'll admit that many of them don't have the subtlety of music or film. Also, why can't you rent CDs? You can rent movies and borrow books, but you can't rent CDs. (Don't give me that nonsense about there being CDs at the library. That doesn't count. No library I've ever ben to had more than a dozen titles.) I know it's irrelevant in the era of downloads, but before the internet I always wondered why there wasn't a Blockbuster for music instead of movies. -------------
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Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:24
I'm hoping someone will agree with me in this thread. I don't see any yet
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:30
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To say albums are ready for you to review after five or six listens is not contradictory to albums growing on you more and more after that.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:31
Because, unlike movies and books, music always requires (and rewards) repeated listenings over a long period of time, usually more than two years. If you rent it without owning it for a long time, you will get very little out of the music. You can finish a book and return it to the library. You can watch a movie once, and return it to Netflix. You can't do that with music. That's why you can't rent CDs.  -------------
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Posted By: RMR
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:35
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Sometimes repeated listens are not a matter of choice. Years ago, when I bought Yes' "Tales," I was completely broke, and money for a new album was not in cards, and I didn't have a large back catalog of CD's, so I spun "Tales" daily for weeks if not months. I thought it was completely boring for the first week or two, then all of a sudden, it all made sense. So, I often wonder if I would like it as much as I do, if I had more cash at the time. ------------- RMR- Record Music Reviews http://www.recordmusicreviews.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.recordmusicreviews.com |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 21:38
No one's going to agree with someone that's wrong (ie, the guy with the annoying sun avatar). Let's face it: Some albums do reward repeated listens. Other albums lose their luster after various plays. And then there's those rare ones that will always leave you indifferent. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 29 2010 at 23:13
There were a couple in my town....and lot of tapes...this is why they were just a couple and didn't last long. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: 00ubermensch
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 01:57
| @WalterDigsTunes I agree with your point, but look who's talking about having an annoying avatar. Charlie Sheen? |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 02:06
Aha! What a wonderful paradox. Your lack of excess led you excessively listen to TfTO, prog's icon (in the minds of many, not necessarily mine) of excess. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 06:46
You CAN rent CDs, it's just your town/country that doesn't. You can rent a huge variety of albums in Paris' mediacenters.
Pathetic explanation... trying to pass your quirky theory as a cause for the absence of CD rentals... CD rentals are not very spread because (among other reasons): - CDs are the easiest to RIP (DVDs a bit harder, Books much harder) - For the same reasons as CD sales are down (legal/illegal downloads, storage.....) And of course, like in an ANY genre, the number of listens required to correctly "appreciate" and album depends solely on the listenner's nature and the feel/understanding he/she gets from the album. What a pretentious thread.... ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 07:16
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My pence: I don't need more than one listen to most of the pop stuff. When I (rarely) watch TV, if I see dancers on a 4/4 tempo or people rapping with their standardised moves I immediately change channel. After 20 years I'm still unable to decide if I like Marillion's Brave or not. I took less than half album to put Mostly Autumn in my top ten. I took 30 years to understand Tangerine Dream's Zeit that's now one of my fav albums. I need 2 or 3 listens to be able to review a Senmuth's album. I need more to really like it, but it doesn't change my reviews. A quick comment about stealing music. I don't want to justify it, but when CDs replaced vinyl the majors doubled the prize of an album. I was forde to buy a CD reader by the fact that vinyls were harder to be found in the shops. I had to re-buy some CDs when I gave up to my "stereo". Now I'm quite happy to see them struggling against piracy. I'm less happy for the artists and for the major's workers, indeed. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: The Neck Romancer
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 07:23
Well, this IS a prog forum
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 07:47
| I must also admit I think some albums can be listened to more often then others, even in the first stage. Therefore it's an element a reviewer should mention. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 08:18
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Some albums are impossible to fully appreciate on the first listen...though usually you can tell if it's going to be worth it after the 2nd or 3rd listen. Pat Metheny's The Way Up took me MANY listens.
There are many albums I've thought were 5 star material on the first few listens but after awhile they just don't strike a chord as much. Indukti is one of those.
Some blow you away from the first time and keep providing time after time. Selling England...for me.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 08:39
Please get your quotes in order. I don't want people thinking this ridiculous theory is mine. -------------
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 09:52
^ he he 
What a pretentious response... ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 15:08
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Hi,
A Physics axiom for many of you ...
"Quality is inversely proportional to Quantity"
It really tells the story about "listening" ... but if some people are too stoned and tripping and have to hear something 147 times ... so be it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: sealchan
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 17:05
| One of the things I've notice when listening to longer prog or symphonies is that these songs do sound better after repeated listenings. There is a learning process which for me involves the ability to anticipate the music that follows what I am hearing currently. Initially a long and complex song with a large number of musical ideas may sound just like a long collection of musical ideas. But absorbing the lyrics or noticing the patterns, which requires repeated listening, eventually provides context for a given musical passage. When I begin to anticipate a musical passage for where it will take me after the musical passage that I have just heard then I know I have begun to hear the song as a whole. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 17:43
I'm sorry, but the assertion that a prog rock album requires more time and attention to properly appreciate than a great novel is insane. Were it not for my freedom loving, libertarian views I would suggest that you be locked away for saying such things. -------------
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Posted By: J-Man
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 18:06
Every album doesn't reward repeating listening. An album that is total crap (eg. Justin Bieber) does not reward repeated listening. Also, I have no problem with people who listen to an album only 5 or 6 times and write a review. It all depends on the album. I am almost solely a promo-based reviewer nowadays, but I still will listen to any promo until I've absorbed the music fully. Sometimes the music only requires 3-4 listens, sometimes the music needs 12-13 listens until I understand it. Some music is simply more accessible than other music, and that's something pretty easy to recognize IMO. For example, Pain of Salvation's Scarsick took me about twenty listens to enjoy, and I rated it 5 stars. On the inverse, I knew Snow by Spock's Beard was a masterpiece the first time I heard it. It all depends on the album and the listener.  ------------- 
Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime |
Posted By: Xanatos
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 20:10
| <--- my avatar |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 20:34
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Some albums simply have many many more things to listen for in my opinion. ------------- Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell? I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: November 30 2010 at 21:34
High, When it comes to sex, I prefer both. And of course it comes with repeated listening rewards. Sex axiom. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 03:28
I usually listen 147 consecutive times to Tangerine Dream to get stoned and tripping.... ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: 40footwolf
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 18:41
Absolutely untrue. Some albums require a dozen spins before you start to grasp them, while others don't even merit one. ------------- Heaven's made a cesspool of us all. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 19:04
He's just hoping to get a chance at the chicks ... forget the rest! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 19:21
That would be an assumption.
Many of us just close our eyes and simply trip along and appreciate the flow of the music and are not concerned with the mechanics and annotation that a professor of music is using to make himself smarter or a better listener than you or I!
Not all music is that "mental" or require that you be that "mental". In fact ... how weird ... that sometimes some music is created to simply drop the mental aspect of it, and help you flow with it ... as was the case in the early days of progressive music, which was merely an extension of the early trips ... from simple drug trips to something a little more intelligent and meaningful!
You don't go to half of these things because of the "musicianship" behind it. Most of us go to these because we like the music and everything else is not important ... if you are into it for the "intelectual" side, you are not going to go to a rock concert, or a progressive music concert ... you are going to join the neo-ists and go see Pat Metheny so you can feel yourself more educated and with a better music taste ... or ... go pay to watch Yo Ma, or some other big name in classical Music.
Again, not always ... the best lyricists you do not have to listen to it 100 times ... unless you are still trying to figure out what "Tales from Topographic Oceans" is all about! ... hint ... the lyrics are not all it's about!
On top of it, sometimes we take those lyrics too seriously and they are not important, or have one third the value and the lesson and the punch that "When The Music Is Over" has ... which we refuse to speak of as one of the progenitors of "progressive music" ... so much of it explained where the music had to go and how much better we had to get ... but we're still stuck on the fan side of it, and not listening to the words .. or giving a dam about the words because some folks here think that some quotes by Rush are more important. And of course ... one is missing the point of it all, if they say that!
What brings you back, is not a "repeated listen" ... what brings you back is that ... you missed something ... what is that one thing ... that keeps bringing you back to it ... and the minute you "find it", you're likely not to ever hear it again. And that "find" might be one word, might be one letter, might be one note, might be nothing but a small silence in the piece of music that says it all ... or simply ... you now understand it, and it makes sense to your mind and logic. The rest is a joke! And sometimes a bad idea ... that you are listening because you are trying to find the note in it that you missed? ... you're kidding me, right? ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: December 01 2010 at 20:28
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The first major problem with your theory is that it assumes that all albums are deserving of multiple listens over a long period of time. They're not. I wrote my review to OSI's Free after only about 5 listens, and to Tormon Maxt's The Problem of Pain after 1, on both accounts I dont want to give the albums 2 years and repeated listens, I'm not a masachist. Because you react to each album differently sometimes you know that you have an instant winner, and it stays like that for years. Other times, a seemingly brilliant album will loose its luster after repeated listens, or maybe the opposite will happen. Sometimes you have a steaming turd that you really wish you never bothered with. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 00:29
Hi, Such sweeping generalizations, and particularly the laws of physics are somethings that art transcends. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 06:17
| Not many albums need repeated listening. When they do it's because you try to find something good in a album that doesn't have a impact on you or because they have such a impact on you that you need to listen to it over again just for your listening pleasure. If you have to do a review of a album that you don't like, i don't think that repeated listening will help brings more positive things. For me, it doesn't take many listening to make my judgement on a album, a progressive rock album, i mean. But as far as make a review of a classical album, it would take me forever, because the complexity of this kind of music is beyond me. |
Posted By: jean-marie
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 07:18
| It's a matter of fact some albums are pure evidences and others need several spins, and we're talking about albums but what about tracks? an album is a pieces collection even if in prog a piece sometimes was a whole record side.Today we can listen to a lot of stuff but i just remember when i was a teen ( 69 ) i had little money and little choice in my town shop so had no choice than to listen again and again, without that i maybe wouldn't appreciate so much records as UMMAGUMMA or THIRD ( ther's many other examples ) |
Posted By: infandous
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 09:45
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The notion that all prog albums need repeated listenings and all albums benefit from this is a perfectly valid opinion. The key word here being, "opinion". Personally, after 2 years of listening to an album, I usually don't listen to it anymore (or at least, vary rarely). I played the 70's Yes albums constantly for two years, now I might pull one of them out once or twice a year, if even that. Personally, I think that 2 years is about the amount of time it takes for me to get tired of hearing even the most complex and deep albums (assuming I'm listening to them at least once a week). Also, you can write a review of any album after one listen. It might not be a good review, but there is no valid reason for someone not to..........other than personal opinions that say otherwise. For myself, I'm perfectly comfortable with writing a review after 5 or 6 plays......or less, if I feel I can write a good review. "Rewards repeated listenes" is perfectly valid to use in a review, if the reviewer feels that is the case. Frankly, not all albums reward repeated listens. If they do for you, then great. But I suspect the vast majority of progarchives members will disagree with this notion. In any genre of music, at least 50% is crap after all (IMO). |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 10:37
:) doesn't mean we should encourage pretentiousness. My applogies thellama73 I'll make sure that doesn't happen again.
...I simply pointed out false assumptions (no CD rentals) and gave my opinion on some real plausible causes for the issue (lack of CD rentals) rather than trying to legitimize my theory via subjects that don't have anything to do with the topic. If that's pretentious, then I take back my last comment to Starhammer. ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: Nathaniel607
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 16:36
Uhhh... what are you on about? First of all, I've never heard this theory - what does "quality" mean in regards to physics? More importantly, physics does not apply to art, and in some cases, not even real life. This is music. Some music will be better understood or comprehended after repeated listens. Some will be instantly loved and consistent. Some, a person may begin to hate after repeated listens. It depends on the music, the person and their state of mind. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nathaniel607" rel="nofollow - My Last FM Profile 
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Posted By: FunkyM
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 17:50
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"Because, unlike movies and books, music always requires (and rewards) repeated listenings over a long period of time, usually more than two years." I dunno. I think I'd get a heck of a lot more out of seeing Bridge on the River Kwai multiple times than I would from listening to Ke$ha's Animal. I don't think this theory holds up for me. |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 18:02
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Jethro Tulls A Passion Play really did reward repeated listening i couldn't grasp a hold of the whole thing or concentrate the first few times but i came back to it a couple of weeks ago and gave it my full attention and it was a really great listen and i played it about 4 more times after that over the next few days that was definitely rewarded repeated listening -------------  
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 02 2010 at 18:12
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I think early on when you're first exploring prog there will be albums that you need repeated listenings of, but as you get into more you do tend to get to the state where you'll know if you want to after the first spin. Do we get any kind of redeemable bonus points for repeated listenings?  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Blackbeard
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 12:15
| Some types of music are love at first sight, others needs repeated listings. To me, Gentle Giant belongs to the second group. It needs at least 3 years and many listenings until they belong to my favorites. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 15:37
I hate to tell you this ... you are quite incorrect.
I personally tried this with actors and musicians, and there is a trick to it ... and it is the level of your attention ...check this out ...
If your attention span is 100%, I doubt you will need 50 listens. If your attention span is 10%, you will probably need 500 listens ... to find that little subtle thing that kicks in your listening pleasure ... but by that time I doubt that you will ever listen to it again, because your ability to concentrate is too scattered!
It's the same thing with actors for the stage and learning lines ... 100% concentration, you can learn 50 lines in 20 minutes ... 10% concentration it will take you 4 to 5 hours to get all those lines down ... you decide, which of these is more fruitful for you ... but I can tell you that the difference between a pro and an amateur, usually is their ability to ingest/digest it in one take (so to spaek) ...
Almost all of us reviewers that have been at it for years, do not need to listen to things that many times ... we have way more reference points for most stuff that we listen to, than the music itself has for us. And that is the difference.
It's the same thing for Foreign Art/Film Reviews, of which I have 500 or more and half of that in the Internet Movie Database ... there is no chance of seeing the films a second time, so if your attention is not there, why are you writing a review (first) and (second) what are you doing here?
I am not sure I would want to suggest that "regular" listeners do not have the same ability and are not used to seeing/hearing something different. The only issue I have with the majority of the music listed here, is the same reason I do not review top ten ... 10k people already done it ... what do you need my review for? ... besides, I only do the ones that they are not big enough to try, yet! The ones no one knows or has heard of before, because that is where the majority of gems are these days ... the rest is way too comercial and we need to start dropping most of those reviews, specially when some of the groups are mere mom and pop copies and not progressive at all. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 15:44
That's why i always think that you can't listen to prog music in your car, in a party or as music background. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 15:46
And here is my point all the time ... now transpose that thought to rock music ... and the original "progressive" folks were pretty much stretching things into that classical complexity ... but we created "prog" because it has no complexity and is just another radio version of something that was done before ... it can't even broken down to anything else but yet another sonata format with the same bridges and choruses ... how original!
The important thing is that none of the originals will ever "sound like" someone else ... and that is not something that a "style" like "metal" is capable of expanding on very much. You have to have a very good sense of "self" to do so, or at least of "artistic" ideas, rather than some kind of "prog" idea ... which is to me just like cheap bar-hop band stuff ... it doesn't even take that much talent to play a 4/5 instead of a 3/4 or 4/4 ... or 7/8 ... so what? ... but see how many "Stravinsky's you can find in the land of progressive music ... hint ... most of those labelled in some "style" or other, are not even worth a listen! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 15:55
I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention. All I noticed was that the senseless wall of text didn't address the "physics" axiom. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 15:56
You can.
And I do.
But listening to Heldon and Djam Karet, or some of the more unusual "progressive" ... not the comerical sounding ones called "prog" ... does take a little more discipline and ...carefull-ness ... (is that a word?) ... because for me these tend to take me away tripping ... and you really should not do that while driving!
But geee ... I'm listening to Mike Oldfield right now, and just had Kate Bush and before that a bunch of solo albums from the Gong family folks, before that Hawkwind, before that Man, before that Nektar, before that ... want me to keep going?
But the difference is ... I'm listening for the pleasure of enjoying some great music ... not because it is this or that or some silly idea like "progressive". I listen to "albums" ... like I would a symphony or a concerto ... not because it is some kind of glorified rock music (or jazz, or fusion or whatever) that we discuss here day in and day out.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 16:03
If you had the intelligence to even attempt reading and stop thinking that the world is all about the sh*t you don't like ... you might find a gem here or there! But I'm not sure you have the attention span to even try ... since your answers usually have only a few characters and you think your name is Jesus! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 16:15
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A lot of people here are using language when talking about prog to indicate an underlying assumption that it is of godlike remarkability. Get over it people. Prog is not god's gift to anyone. It's just music.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 16:17
If Walter makes you cum that doesn't make him Jesus.  By the way, I think it is a bit harsh the amount of sl*g.ing you've been getting around here for your postings. You've obviously been listening to prog for a long time and I find it unkind. Although I do read some and I confess they often makes my brain hurt.  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 17:09
Dude, it took me so long to like this album! It sounded disjointed and unfamiliar at first, but finally a few melodies began to grow on me and now it is one of my favorite albums of all time. ------------- three dot, a trinity, a way to map the universe, three dot four dot, is what will make a square, a bed to build on, it's all there, four dot |
Posted By: Xanatos
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 19:54
 /thread
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Posted By: JasonL
Date Posted: December 03 2010 at 20:37
This is a good example of how I think we're actually talking about three different phenomena. Let me break it down: (1) Requires repeated listening - an album (or song, or artist, or what have you) that isn't all that appealing at first listen but unveils its charms slowly, frequently because it's got kind of an austere surface - A Passion Play above, or Henry Cow (2) Rewards repeated listening - sounds fine when you first hear it, and each listen sounds good in a different way, because there's simply a lot going on in the album and it takes repeated listens to absorb it all - certainly the best albums of Yes, Genesis, classical music, jazz, and so forth (3) Permits repeated listening - album doesn't really have any secrets to unfold, but doesn't become grating or annoying after several listens - good pop music does this I think a lot of albums might get #2 for different reasons - sometimes the music, sometimes the lyrics, sometimes just the solos, etc. |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 13:40
What are you talking about? You may write a lot of poetry but if I'm not wrong you have posted only one review in PA, for ITCOTCK, and we must thank god because if there were many more reviews like that here I'm quite sure they would put off anybody from listening to prog.
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Posted By: chrijom
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 13:51
I think this thread's getting a bit pretentious.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: December 04 2010 at 22:02
On similar lines, I don't see why a great book is not worth reading over and over. It arguably applies more to books than to music or movies in that the former may take longer to digest unless one's idea of serious writing be Alchemist. |
Posted By: Rune2000
Date Posted: December 05 2010 at 05:09
That's not entirely true. I have noticed that most of the simpler prog genre music, *running for cover* like crossover, symphonic, metal, proto etc., is easier to gasp after only a few spins of althe album at hand. This doesn't mean that I will write my review immediately after 2-3 revisits, but my attention to details starts to stagnate rapidly. The opposite of this example of Rio/Avant-prog bands that generally require a whole lot more time and effort for me to get into. If you've read my 5-star review of Miriodor's - Avanti!, then you'll know that I hated that album at first but have now grown into it. I simply consider your opinion invalid when discussing the complete spectrum of prog music. |
Posted By: freyacat
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 09:52
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I think that the thesis here is entirely wrong. People say that an album "rewards repeated listening" for a reason. It could almost be a definition of art music. Pop music is supposed to grab you on the first listen, and so the musical rewards are right up front for you to enjoy - catchy verse/chorus/riff, simple, clear lyrical ideas, etc. The first time I listened to the introduction of "Close to the Edge," I thought, "what is this hippie garbage? They're just making noise!" But it was intentional enough that I kept thinking about it and returning to it. Decades later, I am captivated by this piece of music. I learned to recognize that initial apprehension as a sign that this music might require some sustained attention. Following that sign has been a joyous lifelong quest! ------------- sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time |
Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: December 14 2010 at 21:37
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Attahk was the first Magma album I owned. I didn't like it and couldn't really play it the whole way through. I came back to it shortly, and started liking it more and more. I then championed that album even when it was unpopular (in the mid 1990's, most Magma fans online said they didn't like it). Even after hearing the rest of their catalog it's still one of my favorites. ------------- -- Robert Pearson Regenerative Music http://www.regenerativemusic.net Telical Books http://www.telicalbooks.com ParaMind Brainstorming Software http://www.paramind.net |
Posted By: Baggra
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 08:54
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All this palaver going down every forum that TfTO is epitome of excess & over-complication is lost on me.
Its a clear masterpiece and I took it (just about) completely in on first listen.
Now, concerning an example of a lp that really opened up the horizons on repeated listens, in my case at least:
the concept lp, and Birthcontrol's proggiest, "Backdoor Possibilities".
I think the complexity on this amazing lp is down mainly to the - uncharacteristic for Birthcontrol! - complex vocal harmonies.
This didnt really hit me till the third or fourth listen.
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Posted By: AllP0werToSlaves
Date Posted: December 20 2010 at 11:50
| I think it really depends on the artist/album. Gorguts "Obscura" takes many a listen to really sink in, let alone make any sense to the untrained prog listener. |
Posted By: CloseToTheMoon
Date Posted: December 24 2010 at 14:29
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I agree it's a cliche phrase, but it's exactly true in many cases. Especially with experimental or progressive albums. Like the previously mentioned TFTO. When I got that on vinyl, I listened to only one track at a time so I could wrap my head around it better. It's in my top 3 Yes albums because there's so much in it. I'd say a straight pop album should be almost immediately likable but after I heard Pet Sounds for the first time, I was almost unimpressed. I like it the more I listen to it, but I still haven't heard a great master of it. Sonically it's nowhere near Sgt. Pepper or even Days of the Future Passed. ------------- It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. |