I'm falling for it..
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Topic: I'm falling for it..
Posted By: friso
Subject: I'm falling for it..
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 02:11
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Everyone has them; the weak spots. Elements of progressive music that grap you instantly. If progressive music has these certain 'personal'characteristics I'm less critical towards the whole product. I'm just falling for it.
I'm interested wat makes you fall for it. I'll give an example of what musical elements make music easy for me to acces: - jazzy drums (almost always works for me) - bravery (doing the unexpected, daring performance) - psychedelic moods/crazyness (exploiting artistic freedom) What about you? |
Replies:
Posted By: Billy Pilgrim
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 02:35
| for me if the lyrics have a spiritual backing to them I'm instantly intrigued. |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 03:18
If you mean by 'jazzy drums' a drummer who interacts dynamically with the other musicians and whose playing becomes an inseperable part of the composition, (and doesn't just identify the underlying pulse of the music and lay down a rawk beat) then yeah bring it on baby...  In addition: Middle Eastern, North African and Eastern European scales or modes (when used sparingly) Portamento and filter effects used on synth solos Guitarists who think carefully about their parts (when not soloing) and try to enhance the song accordingly A firm grasp of when it is appropriate to play very little or precisely squat: less is more Lyrics that deal with secular subject matter e.g. real people in the real world who are denied access to a spaceship Certain instruments 'play' me: hammond organ, piano, Fender Rhodes, clavinet, Moogs (and I also love bands who cast their textural net wider by using real strings, real brass and assorted ethnic thingies from time to time A bass and drums axis that have the nous to realise they are the anchor, not the sail. (c/f some Jazz Rock mutineers)  ------------- 
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friso wrote:Posted By: -Radioswim-
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 04:40
Along with the spiritual thing, if the lyrics hint in any way of brotherly love, I am... IN LOVE with it, being a brother of 5 others. I also seem to react positively to slow guitar plucking... notely in the higher notes. EDIT- I also get sucked in when artists take a break from the music to narrate or recite poetry to tell a story or convey emotion. It just seems to compliment music nicely. I can't help myself from getting into that sort of thing. ------------- 
Dust in the Kitchen |
Posted By: npjnpj
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 05:00
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Two things mainly: a strong keyboard (preferably hammond organ) background and one or several crescendos involving multi-layered male-female vocal harmonies. Presses my buttons every time. |
Posted By: JS19
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 05:59
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Mellotron or Hammond ------------- 
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 07:39
| Jazz, blues, world or folk influences, with some very refined interplay are the things that really get me, and I fall for it easily. |
Posted By: Cactus Choir
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 08:15
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I agree about the jazzy drums - a good drummer can really boost a piece of music. Pierre van der Linden of Focus is one that comes to mind - the first five minutes of Anonymous II are really enjoyable for me mainly down to all the little fills he does and the way he drives the music along. I also like a bit of a 60s R&B feel to the music. A lot of my favourite artists - Keith Emerson, Steve Howe, Jon Lord, Ian Anderson - did the whole seven gigs a week, slogging up and down motorways and cranking out Got My Mojo Working before moving on to prog but the influence of that style remained in their music. A New Day Yesterday by Jethro Tull is a good example of this. The occasional Bach-style contrapuntal classical quote always goes down well too. ------------- "And now...on the drums...Mick Underwooooooooood!!!" "He's up the pub" |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 08:25
I forgot to mention the classical influence. When tastefully done, always gets to me.
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Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 09:17
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A piano that sounds like it hasn't been tuned lately. Like the piano on Split Enz' Dyzrhythmia.
Powerful sounding drums, which don't sound like they are there to "keep the time"
12 string guitar
Mellotron
Church organ in prog
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Posted By: TheOppenheimer
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 09:31
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when a song makes you feel something. that's enough for me. it makes me cry, makes me think, makes me sleepy, makes me depressed, makes me get philosophical, etc. also, i fall for the "i never heard something like this before" feeling some songs create. ever listened to Black Lake Nidstang by Agalloch? that song is unique. ------------- //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// A veces es cuestión de esperar, y tomarte en silencio. |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 09:34
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piano, gothic pipe organ, operatic choirs, stirring melodies, good bass playing you can hear in the mix.....
just to name a few..  ------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition |
Posted By: cacha71
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 09:41
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Prog folk with unusual folklore, medieval or ethnic influences. Obscure, poetic and cryptic lyrics. Changes in mood and tempo where you least expect it.
------------- http://www.last.fm/group/Progressive+Folk |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 09:44
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^
yeah, love the medieval prog folk sounds too. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sQD8uhpWXCw" rel="nofollow - It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood...Road Rage Edition |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 10:06
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I like pretty much all types of music but the stuff that really captivates me is really emotional. ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">  
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Posted By: clarkpegasus4001
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 10:30
When someone plays from the heart  Tony C. |
Posted By: TheGazzardian
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 10:37
| Cello, Violin, Clarinet, acoustic guitar, roaming bass lines, melodic drumming, female vocals, operatic female vocals, unique vocals, awesome drumming, quirky humour (Gong), weird sounds (avant prog), Classical references, drama, concepts, unusual instrument groupings, musical-style vocals (where each voice is a character), and I'm sure i could think of more. Let's face it, there is just too much in music out there that is good. XD |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 11:06
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It's hard to pin down a few elements that I particularly like but some may be: 1. Jazzy drums, yeah, sort of, but I am more interested in there being swing, really. 2. Dynamism in the playing. Bands without a large dynamic range can sometimes get a bit boring, though it's not hard and fast. 3. Soul influence in singing, but not of the scatty type. Um, Waters's singing on Shine On is probably a good example of what I have in mind. 4. Roaming basslines. I am a real sucker for this one.
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 11:09
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The common thing here is drums.
That's because a band is only as good as its drummer (whoever said that?)
Personally I also like songs with really interesting structures with loads of different sections that keep comng, going, and returning. If I don't know where I stand with the structure then I usually can't enjoy the individual themes (unless it's an improvisation).
------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 11:13
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Difficult to pin down, really, but generally exceptionally thoughtful music, lyrics which tell a great story, songs that tug at my heartstrings, and I'm a sucker for brilliant female vocals.
------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 11:15
On a somewhat related note, I would say the dynamism of the drummer is a good pointer to the overall dynamism of the band. Genesis, JT, ELP, KC (esp Wetton era) - all dynamic bands with dynamic drummers. A wooden drummer sort of rubs off the wrong way on the band and pulls them down. Judas Priest wrote some very good, even great songs in the 80s but were saddled with the awful Dave Holland.
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 12:40
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Ah, good thread! My weak spots are easily: - geniune Hammond Organ
- if it has some funky/jazzy instrumental section (eg: the groove section on Atom Heart Mother is tremendous!)
- a jazzy played instrument in a non-jazz context (eg: Waterloo Lily by Caravan, the keyboards are so jazzy!)
I can't think of anything else, but I'm sure there's plenty coming from me hehe.
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Posted By: CloseToTheMoon
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 12:45
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1. Melody - If I'm humming along, or get a smirk on my face, I'll always give it multiple listens. 2. Rhythm - I hate to use the term beat for some type of percussion pattern or drum track, but that's what I find myself paying attention to. 3. Vocals - If the singer is even slightly abrasive to my earholes...it'll take some convincing to give it a chance. 4. Production - Not as common a factor for most of you. I love analogue/vintage/warm sounding records (hence the reason I got into pre-1980s music in the first place). So it's really hard for me to get into flat, over-produced, compressed sounding records. 5. Character - I don't mind sloppy technique or other downfalls, if it's raw talent. I like some original character to any instrument.
------------- It's funny how the colors of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 12:48
| My interests lie now in contemporary progressive music that applies the progressive principles as we know them on sounds that emerged after the classic prog era - and this is not a restrictive view, as three decades of innovation have passed since the demise of classic prog. |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 12:48
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Good guitar, harmony vocals, complexity, and drums that are part of the music rather than glorified metronomes.
You do those things well and you could probably be singing the phone book over three chords and I'd still dig it. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Nathaniel607
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 12:57
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First of all, when the bass and drums stand out. I love it when I can hear the bass doing little fills! Also, to the contrary of a lot of the posters, I really don't care too much about what the lyrics mean (except some cases when they are important) but I do like it when the sound nice. Like, for example, on Spock's Beard's "The Light" (the song). "I am senor Valasco I drink my milk with tabascoGot no place to stand Got no home, no land, but I Don't ever want to die Don't place no one before I I am the mask and the chamber I know of love not of danger Got no place to go Ain't nothin' better than be here Don't ever want to die Don't place no one before I" ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nathaniel607" rel="nofollow - My Last FM Profile 
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 13:47
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^yes! The sound of Neal's voice on that part is excellent! |
Posted By: natewait
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 14:02
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Seeing that Neal Morse was involved in making the album. Concept Albums. Complex vocal harmonies: both like the vocal arrangements of Moon Safari and the vocal counterpoint style of a band like Gentle Giant. Long instrumental passages where the band shows off their skill and diversity (multiple styles/genres, different time signitures, unique instruments, etc.). Anything that has a great groove to it and is somewhat jazzy and/or funky. ------------- Please check out my Progressive Music Blog: http://leviathanprog.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow - The Leviathan . |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 14:24
Surprised!
Totally surprised!
Shocked!
Amazed!
Blown Away!
... there are no words for it.
It has nothing to do with the instruments themselves, although, of course, they help, but the totality is BIGGER than any single instrument, is the most important thing for me in any music.
One of the reasons why a lot of "prog" is not that big a thing for me, is that the "totality" is not there, and there are simply ideas that we're supposed to believe in, and that's the same thing as me tellin you what is good ... you gonna tell me to screw off! And I fancy that a band trying to convince me that this is about that or the lyrics are about this, or that the music means this ... is the first turn off that I have all around.
The next turn off for me is ANY band that calls itself "progressive" or says that they are a "prog" band ... surest sign that I will not bother at all!
The best bands that you remember and call progressive in history of the medium never had a name for their music and they didn't need one! And it was because of it that they did what they did! ... think about it! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: The Truth
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 14:36
Normally I can make no sense out of you're posts, Mosh, but you're totally right with this.  ------------- http://blindpoetrecords.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 15:43
| I love to hear a bit of raw aggression in prog as well as bravado. ''Going for it'' is the best description in a nutshell. Best recent example is Muse- 'Thoughts Of A Dying Atheist' which had me jumping round the room the minute I heard it. Another Muse track 'Take a Bow' made my head throb (in a good way) when I first heard it. Some bands just press my buttons. |
Posted By: sealchan
Date Posted: January 20 2011 at 16:34
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I love three kinds of progressive passages:
1. Gradual build up of big orchestal chords: like in Wurm in Yes' "Starship Trooper" or in two discontinuous movements in "Awaken"; its like God descending to Earth
2. Long melodic passages: like in Ravel's Bolero which also builds up in intensity as its melody is gradually repeated. Steve Hackett's melodic guitar work in the center of Firth of Fifth and his Steppes contain long passages of beautiful notes that make me think of someone singing the greatest, most passionate sililoquy echoing through eternity
3. Multi-layered, hard and somewhat funky rhythmic passages that evolve, repeat, change dramatically, repeat...the endless pounding rhythm of waves in the ocean; the fast and the slow merged like the complex flows of a mighty river; Yes' "Does It Really Happen?" coda has this in it, so does the long journey-jam in Genesis' "Cinema Show", Yes' "Siberian Khatru"...
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 01:48
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Any kind of art is a way to transmit/communicate sensations for which words are not enough. This includes poetry. If there's a message that I can catch, consciously or not, it works for me. That's why I can listen to very different artists without sticking on a genre only. I mean any kind of message: "Lime and limpid green, the second scene, the fight between the blue you once knew". This doesn't mean anything, but the sound of the words on that music makes me crawl in the deep space, as well as Tangerine Dream's Zeit. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: progkidjoel
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 02:51
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- Layered acoustic guitar - Screamed vocals (don't have to be genuinely harsh, just screamed) - Subject matter concerning some form of melancholia - Lyrical themes/subject matter which carry on through an artist's discography - Recordings with a natural sound (especially live recordings) ------------- 
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Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 03:27
Went to see Focus yesterday, and indeed, Pierre was amazing! |
Posted By: Butterfly Attack
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 04:34
| ... |
Posted By: Butterfly Attack
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 04:38
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A distinctive voice almost immediately does it for me, like Peter Gabriel or Jon Anderson, for example. Negative example : A thin, ordinary voice, like the singer from Gentle Giant has, really turns me off... |
Posted By: Butterfly Attack
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 04:40
| sorry for the double, there s some error showing when posting, so i thought, I had to retype... |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 04:55
| Gentle Giant has a thicker voice then Genesis and Yes, but the vocals aren't recorded that loud. |
Posted By: Butterfly Attack
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 05:02
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well anyway, it s that special timbre that Gabriel's and Anderson's voices have, you would certainly recognize that anywhere and anytime, wouldn't you ? i didn't want to step on your toes though if you're a diehard GG fan, mind you |
Posted By: Butterfly Attack
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 05:55
| You're right, the GG singer sometimes sounds almost like P.Gabriel, but on other tracks the voice sounds thin and weak, maybe another bandmember sometimes sung ? |
Posted By: caretaker
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 06:14
| Good musicians, good production. I love a good rhythym section. Complexity and time changes but not just for the sake of complexity and time changes. |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 06:21
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- Clean, subtle and groovy drums - Use of odd time signatures - Dirty guitars - Thick ambiances ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: mmmreesescups
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 09:18
This is a pretty good summation of what I thought. ------------- 
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Posted By: mmmreesescups
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 09:20
Excuse the double post, but this too! I can't stand hearing something that's predictable and babies you through all the parts of the song. -------------
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 10:42
Hmmm.... for what sake then?
I feel that it seems fashionable on this site to criticise the use of key changes, odd time signatures etc when they are done for no reason. Yet everyone here likes them anyway. There is never a reason for any music, 4/4 or otherwise. Who cares if Robert Fripp wrote Larks' Tongues in Aspic in all those funny meters on purpose? Would we prefer it to be accidental? (or "natural" as it is sometimes described)......
Not a criticism of you personally... but lets just forget about motives behind being prorgessive and enjoy the music! ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 10:49
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Gentle Giant had two lead vocalists: Derek Shulman whose voice is pretty forward and aggressive but occasionally pitchy and annoying, and Kerry Minnear whose voice was much airier, had less variation, but was almost always pleasant. The big brother Shulman sang lead a bit on the first four records at least by credit, though I still can't pick him out.
------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: SaltyJon
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 10:53
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What really gets me? Experimentation, a unique sound, a good bassist, a good drummer, a good guitarist, wind instruments...any combination of these, or just plain old good music. It's not always the same thing from band to band. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Salty_Jon" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: AllP0werToSlaves
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 10:58
It's funny because I always thought Derek Shulman sounded a little like Paul Stanley, especially on "Free Hand". Gentle Giant is pretty much the epitome of experimentation for me, such great music.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 11:16
If you mean Derek Shulman, he doesn't have a thicker voice than Gabriel, Gabriel just has better reach high and therefore tends to sing fairly high but his spoken voice is quite thick. Also, a thicker voice or thinner voice does not signify distinction or lack thereof, which both of you seem to be suggesting. Rob Halford is arguably more distinctive than Tony Martin or Zach Stevens. Yeah, Jon Anderson actually has the thinnest voice among these singers. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 11:32
I agree to the extent that we should not necessarily decipher a motive of showmanship or self indulgence when odd time signatures are used or, simply, drastic time signature changes are effected. However, I personally believe there is a reason or supposed to be anyway why one section of music follows the other. When this 'logical' flow of development is not so evident, I am not satisfied and I cannot just enjoy it for the sake of it because my enjoyment of progressive music extends partly from the skill and command exhibited by the composer. And being able to make the parts fit as if they were always meant to be is a testament to great compositional skill, the kind that really gets me excited. Without evidence of such skill, the only thing I glean from a band playing an odd time signature is that, well, maybe it's tough to play and they are able to do it but so what. Genesis sail through time signature changes as well as odd time sigs so smoothly you'd have to pay attention to notice it. There are some bands who do it so abruptly it's in your face and disruptive. I know what I'd rather have, so to that extent whether 'meaning' can be assigned to the use of a particular compositional device is important in music appreciation. If, even after careful analysis and assessment, there seems to be no rhyme or reason why some piece of music had to be part of the composition, it reflects a bit badly on the composer. |
Posted By: Acidchrist
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 14:00
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For me the best elements of progressive music are a. Lots of layers, ala Yes from Fragile to Relayer. b. Classical influence. c. The feel of having a 'concept' throughout an album, even if it's not a concept album. d. The music flowing, and feeling like each part is the logical progression, even if it's totally left field of what's expected. For me the album The Court of the Crimson King by King Crimson does this absolutely perfectly.
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 14:26
I see what you mean. The art of integrating these rhythms into good music without ruining the melody or whatever, is a element of our enjoyment. But that is subjective.
I guess what bothers me is when people decide that band X are consistently capable, and as such, "allowed" to use these time signatures, while band Y, for whatever reason, are doing it for the wrong reasons and should stop. I think in those cases it is the listener, not the band, with the problem. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 15:47
Ohhh the shame ... no Wagner or Puccini, or Verdi for you then ... and goodbye Italian progressive music, too! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 21 2011 at 21:24
Yes, it is subjective but the most important things in music are, unfortunately, rather subjective and cannot be 'zero-factored' out of debate which tends to happen a lot these days in discussions. As for the second part, my response to that is they should not but yes, they do. You are basically saying that sometimes just because it's a piece by KC or some such big prog name, their music is treated as beyond reproach. I personally do think albums like Lizard and Islands lack initiative and parts of SABB lack direction. Just because it's KC doesn't mean I am precluded from saying so. AND, Red is my favourite music album of all time. |
Posted By: Butterfly Attack
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 04:16
| ah, there you go, that's what I thought |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 10:28
It is! By fans who believe their band can do no wrong.
See, there might be someone who's a massive Pink Floyd fan but not a Genesis fan..... and they might say that PF's use of key changes is really natural and essential to the song, while Genesis "just do it to show off". It could be the other way around. It could be that big bands are allowed but new proggers aren't......... The point is, you cannot enter the mind of a musician, so you should never look at their music based on their intentions. It isn't ethics, it's art. This is why I hate the word 'pretentious' because people now apply it to music as well as people. It's crazy! Why should the fact that Keith Emerson loves himself make his music any less interesting? Of course, it shouldn't (and he really does love himself
 ).......You obviously aren't one of these people, so.... great! ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 10:36
Ethics is a rather loaded word. Anyway, I agree that this sort of thing happens and I have said before that it shouldn't. However, to repeat, I do look at whether a particular compositional choice sounds natural to me. I don't generally make hasty judgments on this, but I know at what point (of repeated listening) the music and not moi is the problem if it still doesn't make sense. Maybe I wouldn't allege showing off or exhibitionism but I would infer inadequate compositional skill and the latter is not exactly flattering either. Also, in certain contexts, showboating can be reasonably inferred. Inserting an excessively fast burst of shred where the musical moment simply doesn't call for it can be called showboating. Of course, it could be argued that the musician is simply enjoying himself. Well then, enjoying oneself at the expense of the requirements of the song IS showboating. |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 10:55
What's wrong with showboating?
 Okay... so it ruins the song. But while this is theoretically true, I still think it is inferred much more than it actually occurs. I'm not entirely sure what a fast burst of shred is, but in how many real instances has it actually made you think - "well that was unnecessary and bad; I do not like this music because of what he did there". It certainly isn't the case with the usual suspects: Emerson, Fripp, Squire...... these people are virtuosos and seem to be capable of integrating their skill into compositions that make sense and flow.
It's just like the whole pretentious problem is inflated where it doesn't really exist; people locate egotism and use it as a weapon against a band they already dislike (yet the prior dislike must be because the music is bad, so even if the performer didn't show off, that wouldn't make the listener suddenly like the band).
So I agree with you but I am yet to see a real example. I haven't heard too much prog yet though. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 11:04
Showboating is all over the map as far as hard rock/metal based music goes. By fast burst of shred, I simply meant a really fast portion of guitar playing, you know, the so called face melting solo. Emerson can get a bit carried away live but not in the studio albums. Those musicians you mentioned all seem to have a strong grounding in classical music, not necessarily by means of formally studying it but by having been exposed to a lot of it. So, they were usually able to write compositions with the kind of complexity that accommodates virtuosity. Hard rock based music tends to be more rudimentary in terms of structure so it comes across simply as if instead of a simple rock solo, the guitarist decided to do something that really pushes the limits of his skill. Oh, and the most prominent means of showboating is the drum solo and I have heard a few excessive drum solos in prog. The one in Focus's Eruption comes to mind immediately. |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 15:00
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Haha I don't want to get into a debate about whether virtuosic noodling is more acceptable live or in the studio. But certainly drum solos are in danger of being unnecessary. An exception would be Carl Palmer's Tank because the drum solo is another section of the song in that instance, a progression if you like.
In any case, I have personally discovered that showboating doesn't bother me. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: mmmreesescups
Date Posted: January 22 2011 at 18:14
Doesn't mean I'm opposed to anything without these elements. -------------
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Posted By: krimson62
Date Posted: January 23 2011 at 19:38
| for me its the unexpected , like Gary Green's mini solo in Just the same |
Posted By: mono
Date Posted: January 24 2011 at 04:15
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may i remind people here (moshkito) that the topic is listing your 'weak spots' not what you look for in music... I also almost forgot: - A raging Rhodes ------------- https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else |
Posted By: hobocamp
Date Posted: January 24 2011 at 09:28
| Mellotrons/synthesized mellotrons. Even in non prog. Zeps Rain Song and Gabriels Darkness come to mind. |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:27
I don't know ... if that was the case, we would be saying that Keith Moon and Bonzo were the best and most progressive drummers around, since they were probably the first to really break the rules as to what drumming really was all about, and not conventional in the music teaching area of the instrument.
In general, the drumming in most progressive things, are the most disappointing part of it all for me, when all the drummer does is depend on the snare drum every 4th beat ... and not help "free the music" (as I call it) from the beat and allow it to flow into other areas and the like. And this is something that most drummers are NOT capable of doing, and always return to the beat keeping part of the music, which for me, hurts it ... and prevents it from flowing further.
It's not about one musician, and this is important ... it's about the totality of the work and the music, and the players are the ones that make the music work ... ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Rottenhat
Date Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:30
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Moshkito (and thehallway), have you heard any of David Kerman's drumming? He is the unsung hero of drumming. Atop of that he is an excellent multi-intrumentalist and composer. Get some 5uu's, and enjoy! ------------- Language is a virus from outer space. -William S. Burroughs |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: January 26 2011 at 13:14
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Something harmonically that I've never heard before, tightness (that goes for any music actually), creativity and generally musicians that play for the music and not just themselves.
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 26 2011 at 15:02
You want to put on Gong's You and listen to Pierre Moerlin on the two long cuts next to each other on side 1 ... I'm not sure that anyone can teach that, and I'm not sure that is about "drumming!" ... or you can catch him on Mike Oldfield's DVD called "Exposed" ... to see what a master percussionist can do that many others can not! ...
I still think that if we think that "prog" is about one instrument or some kind of musical this or that ... that we have lost the sight of what the music is all about. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: January 26 2011 at 18:23
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Rather difficult to pin down really, but I love the unexpected. Being a drummer I am also very susceptible to grooves, and when I´m talking about grooves, I mean that you can actually hear the percussionist laying all of his body and soul into the beat, whilst still being a part of the band playing melodies - fx like Phil Collins did. Then again I am over the moon for Yoshida Tatsuya of Korekyojinn, and he is an altogether different kind of animal. Other things that make me go slurp: Wah wah, moog solos, long deep grunts from a sax and songs about bears. Countless more but I need to sleep.
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Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: January 26 2011 at 20:07
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Progressive things that draw me in are dark and soaring moods, slowly unfolding and patient music. On the other hand I am a sucker for 80s synths and production values. I really love that sound, even stuff like the Fairlight which is so derided nowadays. |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: January 29 2011 at 16:57
| Epic symphonic structure, jazzy melodies/harmonies, lush instrumentation, Beatlesque tunes... a whole list of harder to define things as well I'm sure. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 01:52
New harmonies are also one of my main interests, couldn't find the words for it myself. |
Posted By: friso
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 01:55
Defining those precise musical elements that make you go for it is indeed very hard. Music is a language on its own, and it's sometimes hard to translate it to words. |
Posted By: PlumAplomb
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 08:31
indeed, when music takes me to 'that' place i'm all about it. to be incredibly cheesy, when i'm listening to something and it feels like my soul is soaring and i feel magical is when music really gets me, when i feel like a spiritual powerful being. and to be honest, symphnic prog and classical do that to me more than any music i have, sometimes it's hard to listen to when it ellicits so many emotional responses. ------------- la la la and a bottle of plum! 
and when it lands will my eyes be closed or open? |
Posted By: topographicbroadways
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:28
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It's strange my favourite bands are all ones that took time for me to get into and appreciate their music. Most of the music i fall for instantly when i hear it is stuff that i tend to listen to less often, mostly recent stuff like Transatlantic,The Tangent, The Mars Volta all of whom i obsessed over for a few weeks after hearing and now only listen to once every few months. So i guess the elements I enjoy instantly are heavy prog with symphonic qualities, but these are not elements i can listen to constantly. -------------  
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 17:55
Gotta tie you up for the Djam Karet fan club ... !!! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 18:14
It's very tough, though, and I would not just make a connection to "harmonies", because the term itself suggests that there are only so many harmonic possibilities given the western music code.
In general, suggesting one of the many things that can be a part of any music ... specially "harmony" which is the single thing that attracts people to music the most ... is tough, and I personally do not tie up a feeling to something like that. I can tell you that Gismonti does with harmonics in his guitars what most people dream of hearing in their life times ... but who's listening, and who cares and is it prog? See the real problem? ... it's not the detail ... it's the "style" that is preventing people from listening to different things.
Does a Picasso paint for himself? ... Does Stravinsky compose for himself?
I don't think so ... and I believe ... (I'm a writer and I know what I see kind of thing inside of my piece) ... that we do this for OUR VISION ... not for me ... it's the inner movie and sometimes we do the best we can to illuminate that movie ... and if I spent time waiting for people to understand my telling you that I see purple but you are telling me I'm crazy because you see blue ... I would have quit a long time ago and left this earth ... not worth the hassle of the even the idea!
Today, is a very "commercial" world and environment and with the Internet, it is making it really difficult to clear up these definitions, but it is "fair" to say that an artist is doing it for himself/herself, but I am not sure that is always the issue or the problem at all. There is a lot of literature about this kind of stuff and relationships between various people and these discussions, but in the end ... it's just the way it is ... and it is not for me, any more than it is for you ... although the commercial society that we live in makes it look like I have to paint, play and write for you, so you can pay me ... and that is television and blockbusters ... not art! And my favorite in that are is ... it's entertainment" because you and I are too stupid and bored to even know how to enjoy ourselves ... which tells you the "excuse" that ripping you off (now in 3D) is excusable! ... don't get me started on Metallica! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Luna
Date Posted: January 31 2011 at 18:40
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Awesome Packaging (?) If i see a prog album that has an amazing album cover, or a special edition CD, I'll be sure to get my hands on it.
------------- https://aprilmaymarch.bandcamp.com/track/the-badger" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: sturoc1
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 00:23
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I cannot put it into words but here are a few examples that "got me": Steve Hackett's solo in his version of 'Your Own Special Way' Renaissance the quiet middle passage where Annie sings in 'Can You Hear Me' Caravan organ solo in 'Girls Who Grow Plump....' ELP Welcome Back Live Lp Greg singing 'Battlefield ' in Tarkus. PFM live Japan :guitar in 'River of Life', First verses of 'Photos of Ghosts', Guitar solo 'AltaLoma 5 to 9' APP the entire 'I Robot' Yes Live the quiet vocal section in "Close To The Edge" ....to name a few. there many other moments though for me. And the tracks are not ones that I listen to all the time, every other day etc. They are saved for special places , moments etc. |
Posted By: MoodyRush
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:33
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I love a good tenor singer, which inspires me to yank my own vocal cords to try and hit their high notes!
I also love a strong bass part. Part of this comes from me loving Rush, but I love being able to distinctly hear a bass part rather than it being part of the background.
Complex harmonies get me too.
Variety in dynamics is something that is important too. I listen to some hardcore now and then, but something that annoys me about that is that the music is LOUD all the time, no variety. Metal can be varient in that, Opeth being a prime example.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 15:56
That's very good ... and well said ... and by the time that we hear something like Djam Karet, it makes it better. because it is not just a copy of the original.
I suppose that when I hear a group say that they are doing some progressive this or that ... I tend to turn it off almost right on the spot, as it feels like saying that they are already on an "idea" about music, and what makes anyone think that they can convey even more ideas through another idea ... it's a very strange and bizarre thought for me ... everything gets so badly translated, that the joke is not even funny anymore! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Mista-Gordie
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 16:14
| Mellotron, classical arrangements, unusual instruments, good flute, folk influences |
Posted By: peart_lee_lifeson
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 16:26
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Non-generic vocals usually get me pretty interested. Even if I find the singer annoying, I will be drawn more to a piece with interesting vocals. ------------- PROG ON!!! |
Posted By: Steven Brodziak
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 16:36
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The entrance of the unexpected instrument. Especially a VIOLIN or FRENCH HORN. A simple piano will do.
Also when you think what the next note normally would be and it's not! ------------- Well, there it is. (Amadeus) |
Posted By: 1791 Overture
Date Posted: April 05 2011 at 23:49
| hackett-style guitar |
Posted By: BenevolentBehemoth
Date Posted: April 07 2011 at 19:32
| Violin, basoon, trombone, oboe, and the certain organ sound at about 7 minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zj7Pr4CqGw&feature=related" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zj7Pr4CqGw&feature=related |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: April 08 2011 at 02:26
Ahvak!  ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: King Manuel
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 13:39
| Moog Solos! |
Posted By: jampa17
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 19:15
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I think flute in rock music is a perfect match to make an "unusual" folk thing... and I often fall into that and a good powerful vocals... That's everything for me... it always work. Then, a good balance between instrumental sections and vocal sections... I tend to be bored for overused instrumental spots. ------------- |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: May 22 2011 at 14:45
hmmm definitely agree with you there. God I don't listen to Rotter's in a long time! ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: frippism
Date Posted: May 22 2011 at 14:49
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That is a very interesting question. I mean I also love jazz drumming, particularly in Canterbury albums. I'm rather the fan of the staccato. It's just really fun to hear every playing these very short notes, usually makes everything more ridiculous. Also a fan distortion bass, always makes the bass stand out. I love when a bass is melodic. As a bassist I'm always listening to the rhythm section, and a melodic bass is always welcome. Also sharp bursts of random noise, always fun. Punk influences also kinda interest me, and klezmer, and rap. Anyway any uncommon use of different genres always interests me. ------------- There be dragons |
Posted By: seb2112
Date Posted: May 22 2011 at 15:43
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Evil weirdo grooves (think Miriodor's more recent work)
monstrous dissonant funk machines (Bitche's Brew style) Melodies that constantly switch from one instrument to another (Pocket Orchestra and Yugen) Ascending and Descending guitar melodies played over each other (King Crimson's Discipline, Every math rock band worth listening to) Drums that are all over the place while the guitars whole down the beat (Don Caballero) Odd time signatures that still flow, polymetric riffs, left/right guitars alternating polyrythms. One thing I can't get enough of is when the drum hits the hi-hat in open position and quickly closes it, Peart does a lot of it. Gets me every time NP: Miriodor - Live 89 |