A thought on 90125 and Big Generator..
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Topic: A thought on 90125 and Big Generator..
Posted By: raeloneq
Subject: A thought on 90125 and Big Generator..
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:45
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Hey guys, I'm trying to figure out if I should hate or love 90125 and Big Generator. I know it departs from the classic Yes sound that we all love. But, it opens a door to a new sound that is quite enjoyable. I for one love these 2 albums. But hanging out with Yes purists makes me wonder if I should. Would you have the same feeling for these 2 albums if they would have been called "cinema" and if Jon Anderson was not present? I guess they wouldn't be listed as progressive albums anymore. I really would like to hear your opinions on this.
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Replies:
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:51
Should you love or hate them? You want someone to tell you? I love them and couldn't care less what other Yes fans say. Does that help? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:53
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personally, I love the first and hate the second even though a lot of people says they are similar. ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:54
It all boils down on whether YOU like them or not. I for one like them A LOT (Big Generator more than 90125). If you like them too, that's cool, but this is not the best place to ask sympathy for this. 
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Posted By: raeloneq
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:54
| Umm, I guess disregard the love or hate. Just wanted peoples opinion on these 2 albums as yes fans or not. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:55
Well I guess I covered that too.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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raeloneq wrote:Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 12:58
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I really like 90125. I like Big Generator slightly less.
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:00
| And for the other question, I think that if some completely unrelated band came up with 90125 and Big Generator, they'd be considered here a minor 80s band, maybe a Crossover Prog band if the suggester really tried. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:10
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I think 90125 is an incredible album, but Big Generator a huge disappointment - rushed and forced. I would, though, highly recommend Talk to you - that is nigh on as good as the band got, in any incarnation. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:12
Which is a scary thought.
And the main reason why I prefer that we consider these people artists, and not be bound to some definitions or other, because in the end, we're telling the artist that he/she/they can not improve and do different things.
I don't know ... maybe we need 5 more versions of Harry Potter. At least that rarely changes, and I guess that makes it a good candidate for a progressive style of definition! ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Negoba
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:18
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Essentially, this was a different band. They (wisely for commercial reasons) called the band Yes. What if Jimmy Page had called The Firm Led Zeppelin? That about answers your question.
There is some great synth-based 80's pop on those albums (I too like 90210, er 125 better than Big Generator too). At a modern Yes concert, when "Owner of a Lonely Heart" is played it seems so out place. Not a bad song, but so so completely different. ------------- You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:21
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90125 has some amazing vocal melodies. I love "It Can Happen." Probably my favorite track on the album. I initially hated "Leave It," but damn what a fun and catchy tune. And "Hearts" is just a beautiful song. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:23
Essentially they were the same band. The dfifference between them and the Firm is that rabin era Yes was styill Yes, The Firm was a band with Jimmy Page on guitar. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: ShipOfFools
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:24
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Don't let people dis allude you to what you can enjoy. Just enjoy it. I particularly enjoy a lot of 80's pop, and even pop acts of today. I enjoy Michael Jackson and Christina Aguilera, you can't get much poppier than that! At the same time, I also enjoy Close To The Edge, Tales From Topographic Oceans, and Relayer. I consider those three to be my favorite Yes albums. Yes is one of those rare creatures that has balanced both pop and prog, and has a little bit for everyone. While I don't enjoy everything that the Yes-men have done solo, I enjoy all 19 of their studio albums, and will probably enjoy the 20th (Fly From Here) when it comes out in July. Something doesn't have to be complex and innovating for it to be good. Sometimes simplicity is better. ------------- 
"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:29
I agree! It was fun to hear Yes break out a bit and get back to pop-radio roots, while combining some very good prog sensibilities. Not my favorite Yes, but not my least favorite (I save that for "Union" sadly). Rabin and Squire put in some excellent work on 90125. I never did warm up to "Big Generator"....but with the upcoming Anderson/Wakeman/Rabin project coming together, it is probably time to review the entire Rabin-era catalog, because I'm sure we'll hear some of it again. I must spend more time with "Talk" as well! While walking into a restaurant over the weekend, I heard a bit of Jon Anderson's solo acoustic version of "Owner of a Lonely Heart." It was touching. The single was played to death, but it did save the band from bankruptcy, so I accept it as pop fluff. I'll see Jon play this on his upcoming acoustic tour. Also, it is hilarious to see the faces that Howe makes in concert when he plays OOALH! He looks like he bit into a lemon (or worse)! I don't think he cares much for the song, or any of Rabin's material.
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Posted By: ShipOfFools
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:31
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If you enjoy the Rabin era albums, you should probably check out his solo cds. I have them all, and while there is some filler, all 4 of them are pretty good. Good pop. If you're expecting prog, prepare to be disappointed. -------------
"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:32
When I saw him play it in Birmingham for the first time, it was much worse. He looked as if he had been given a rabbit pooh pie to eat  Surprising really from a man partly responsible for one of the finest pop/prog/rock albums of all time in Asia's debut.------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: clarkpegasus4001
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:41
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I don't mind both of those Yes albums, I think I prefer 90125 over Big Generator. I still prefer the earlier 70's stuff myself but if YOU like them, why care what others think? it's YOUR opinion, so if you like them enjoy them.
------------- Tony C. |
Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:41
Rabbit-poo pie! Thanks, that was what I was hinting at!!  I agree, Asia's debut LP was some stunning prog-pop....but I'm not sure how much Howe had to do with that. When I saw that first tour, Wetton was clearly the front man & seemed to be band leader. All Asia members had some success with radio singles (except Wetton I suppose, LTIA Part 2 never made the charts), so it was a slick formula that has worn well over time. I particularly like Howe's guitar on "Sole Survivor."
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Posted By: pbm3
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 13:43
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I'm a fan of both of those albums, and that's coming from a guy whose very first exposure to prog was when I heard the 45-single version of Roundabout played on a jukebox. It caught my ear and I've love progressive music since, but not exclusively. Owner of a Lonely Heart also caught my ear the first time I heard it. So did Rhythm of Love. Shoot High, Aim Low has been a favorite album cut off of Generator. Is it pure Yes? Let's not forget this is a band that covered the Beatles "Every Little Thing" on its first album! And for what it's worth, Rabin played a heavier guitar than Howe, and that was a nice addition to a great catalog. It complements Howe's lighter style overall. Enjoy what you enjoy! pbm3
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Posted By: ShipOfFools
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 14:04
Exactly! Obviously the pop rock albums mentioned in this post are off topic in the prog lounge. But that doesn't mean that we can't enjoy both pop AND prog, or prog AND pop! I pretty much find something to enjoy in every musical genre. And some of the "classic prog" bands that people rave about, I can't understand why? I still have yet to enjoy Magma or Renaissance.... -------------
"Better than a thousand hollow words is one word that brings peace" - Buddha |
Posted By: Lark the Starless
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 14:08
Try as I might, I cannot seem to understand you.
 I shall refrain from doing so.  ------------- 
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Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 14:10
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Although not to be compared with Yes earlier output, I absolutely love 90125, great stuff in there. While totally departing from the classical Yes sound, it provided a breath of fresh air with a very modern (by then) sound and yet great music, melodies and arrangements.
Changes, Cinema, Leave It, It Can Happen and Hearts are all really great songs. Hold On, Our Song and City Of Love are good too. OOALH is by far the worst track IMO.
With a PA rating of 2.81 it feels to me as a very underrated album.
Big Generator is much worse, even if it has some decent material it felt as if the spark was gone.
I am not familiar with Rabin's complete solo discography but Can't Look Away is a very fine crossover album, in line or maybe even better than Big Generator.
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 14:27
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I agree with both of Epignosis' posts....... I'll add that these albums are progressive because they are different to the prog rock Yes was known for. By going simplistic, that is more progressive than remaining complex. Bands need to change after 10 albums! ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: russellk
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 15:23
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I thought '90125' brilliant when I first heard it and my opinion hasn't changed. Innovative (the vocal harmonies are offered as evidence here), powerful (City of Love), proggy in places (listen to the intro to 'Changes') and eminently listenable. GENTLE GIANT it is not, but in the context of the time it was released it was a breath of fresh air. Of course it's not traditional prog but there was no market for retro-prog in the 1980s. People had moved on. Why would they look back? Particularly when it was obvious they were bored with reproducing their earlier sound. I sometimes wonder if people's negative reaction to this album is based on the 80s sound. This owes more to the genius of TREVOR HORN (who produced the album and who had sung vocals on 'Drama') than anyone else, contributing particularly to 'Owner of a Lonely Heart'). HORN went on to form ART OF NOISE, the early tracks of which built on the sound he'd pioneered with YES. The assumption is that YES went pop, and were after the big bucks. My feeling is they were surprised by its success. 'Big Generator' was so poor in comparison because the compositions were not up to much. |
Posted By: raeloneq
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 15:25
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Would it have better accepted without the name "Yes" and Jon Anderson's involvement? I have heard some cuts from 90125 without Anderson and I think Rabin has a great voice and harmonizes well with Squire. I also like "Talk" and Union. I also enjoy Rabin's solo act "Can't Look Away". Although his migration to movie soundtracks seems like a waste of talent. I appreciate everyones input on this thread. BTW. I just saw yes in March and they were amazing. That kid can sing. Got to hear "Machine Messiah"(top 3 Yes songs.) It was great!!!!
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Posted By: raeloneq
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 15:30
While you are mentioning Trevor Horn. I think his involvement in Drama was great. I love Geoff's style as well. And to mention on of my guilty pleasures sits The Buggles "Age of Plastic". I think its very pop and commercial, but there is a subtle hint of progression there. I guess mainly on the Sci-fi theme of it.
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Posted By: raeloneq
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 15:34
| One more thing. Is it ok to assume that everyone here finds "Open Your Eyes" to be your least favorite Yes album? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 15:41
I like it a lot. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 16:11
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Never be afraid to make up your own mind. Who cares about 'purists', I mean really, what is a purist anyway. Someone who can't see beyond a specific point in time and are therefore stuck in the past? For me it's 90125 not so much, Big Generator I really like. Almost like Love and I'm Running move my soul as much as any Yes songs and it's my personal opinion that the 2.45 rating that the album gets here is a sad commentary on those reviews. An excellent album for 1980's era Yes. But that's just me. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 16:17
| I like those cd's because i'm a huge Yes fan, but those 2 are the one i like less, because of their simplicity , but i have to admit that they showed that they can do some good "shorts songs" also. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 16:18
I wouldn't assume that. Don't judge just because of the low score. Decide for yourself and understand why you feel that way. That's all that really matters. ------------- Thank you for supporting independently produced music |
Posted By: yanch
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 16:30
| I can't say I love either album in their entireties. Both have tracks on them that I like a lot, but there are also tracks on each that I always skip. I don't hate them, just play selected bits rather than the whole things. |
Posted By: akaBona
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 16:32
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every yes album is worth checking. I particulary don't enjoy these 2 albums ie if I want to listen Yes I'll pick some other album. but as I wrote - check them and if you like them buy them. |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 17:08
Ditto. If you like the music, why would you care if other people approve or not?
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 17:32
| both have ok songs--but they sound very 80's which for me is not a great thing---I don't know if you were around in the 80's but there was this cheesy sound LOL---anyway--I listen to classic Yes all the time---90125 and Generator---not too much---Howe is a guitar god and is interesting player even when the song is not great--Rabin is not an interesting player to me (but a very good one technically)---Yes for me has always been about the musicians in the group---and I prefer the classic guys. |
Posted By: colorofmoney91
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 19:57
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I personally love them both, even though my favorites are Close to the Edge, Relayer, and TFTO. I always thought those two albums were very underrated, not to mention that they both were way, way better than Tormato. ------------- http://hanashukketsu.bandcamp.com" rel="nofollow - Hanashukketsu |
Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: April 11 2011 at 20:46
| I find those albums OK, with a few great songs. However, the best song by this line-up for me is Endless Dream, from Talk... I also like "The More we live, let go" very much. |
Posted By: cannon
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 00:19
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1983. I remember it as a very bad year in rock music. At that time I was so frustrated with most of the music that was being released and the MTV factor that I went back to the late 60's/early 70's to discover and find what I couldn't from most of the 80's dominated new wave/synth pop/MTV oriented mainstream glossy rock. There was some of the bands from the NWoBHM, Metallica, and few other artists that caught my interest, but most of it was and still is unlistenable for me.
Asia's s/t debut I didn't mind at the time when it was released but it was great to know that Yes was still alive with the release of 90125. It was like my heroes coming back to combat the music of the day. I wasn't really disappointed with the album but had expected more of a "traditional" prog approach.
King Crimson's new line up IMO was able to fuse the sound and music of the day with prog and pushed the envelope with Discipline but I can't say that was the case with 90125. If anything it was a dentriment to the immediate future of prog in hindsight. Big Generator confirmed this. However I prefer 90125 to Talk, The Ladder and Open Your Eyes. I'm not sure where I would place Big Generator in the relative scheme of things. Close to the bottom that's for sure.
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 01:32
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The thing about 90125 is the name is right about how many albums I would listen to before it. In the case of Big Generator, it would be 90,126th place. I kept buying the albums in hopes they would put out something I cared to listen too after Going for the One, but they never did. Oh, and I might be the only person that thought Union was more listenable than Big Generator. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: SayYes
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 08:43
| I like both albums, albeit not as much as like other albums of Yes except Tormato. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 09:24
Love them! That's an order.. 
Why seek others approval? Do you like them or not? There's no obligation either way.. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 10:35
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I'm thinking you should hate them if you like them and like them if you hate them.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Mumakil
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 15:22
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I personally love them both and "Talk" even more. In my opinion Trevor is a great guitar players and he brought his modern sound to Yes, not to mention that he sings a lot as well. I remember listening to these albums back in the 80's, when information about equipment (well, here in Brazil) was hard to get. I was astonished by the sounds Trevor could cry out of his guitar, especially when Yes played at Rock In Rio in January 1985, he did all those great sounds live in front of me, blowing my mind off and opening a new horizon for my own guitar playing (accuracy, good taste and so on). However, if you look into these albums with a 2011 mind, they may sound too poppy or outdated, but at the time of release they were indeed something very elaborated and complex, taking into consideration the terrible pop scene of that era. ------------- "Fly, you fools!" |
Posted By: stewe
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 16:33
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I consider all three Rabin-era albums on par with golden era The Yes Album-Relayer, style aside. Just music, inspiration, emotions which bring to me. And Trevor Rabin is one of the most complete musicians I know. Being myself a guitarist who learned a lot of Yes material, I can say Rabin's parts are more demanding than Howe's, technically (feeling is a different matter, subjective). Especially accuracy is unbelievable. He's in the same leauge of guitarists as Steve Morse or John Petrucci. Even though Trevor's not shredding that often and his style is also very tasteful and diverse imo. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow">  <a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow" |
Posted By: tdfloyd
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 20:30
Exactly. For me BG seemed like too much stadium rock. A couple of good songs thats it.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: April 12 2011 at 21:49
| I do not like either album very much, but on the whole I think that "Big Generator" is more complete and well-realized. I like the production on it better than "90125," even if the songs are pop-oriented. It just sounds less sterile and fabricated; Anderson is also more emotive when he sings on "Big Generator." |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 02:00
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I love 90125 and for me it's one of the best albums ever made. Definitely in my top 10 of favourite albums. Big Generator I like a lot less. I think Trevor Rabin tends to sterilize the records he produces, so I think it's a pity that Trevor Horn wasn't really involved anymore. Still, I like Shoot High Aim Low, The Rhythm Of Love and Love Will Find A Way, plus a few other fragments on the record.
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 02:07
I especially like the 9012 live VHS/ DVD. Rabin is awesome on all the songs including the old ones. Starship trooper is amazing. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: stewe
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 02:42
Agreed, personally I like Talk Tour the most (despite the inferior receord quality), I think Rabin still have grown during the years. From the old era for example And You And I (he plays into on the piano, then repeats on acoustic 12-string in the middle), Heart of Sunrise or Perpetual Change are great renditions. Even Tony Kaye plays Wakeman parts really well. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/trevorrabin/?chartstyle=basic10" rel="nofollow"> <a href="http://steveer.ic.cz" rel="nofollow" |
Posted By: King Manuel
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 05:38
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First let me say, purists are boring people! They miss out on a lot of great stuff!
Me personally like classicYes stuff, but I also love 90125.Fantastic Album! I would gibve it a 5 star rating as I would give Close to the edge. Big Generator I know only vaguely (I don't own it), so I can't judge really, but the song "Shoot High, Aim Low" I have in good memory. ------------- Don't Bore Us, Get To The Chorus |
Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 10:46
You have a wonderful sense of humour! ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 10:52
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I own both of these albums and I think they are the best albums that Yes has ever recorded!!!!
(Does that make you like them?) -------------   
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Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 11:02
 I really do like it. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 11:11
I know, sorry...... I actually prefer Union to it these days. ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: thehallway
Date Posted: April 13 2011 at 11:14
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Seriously, they put a * in the middle of the word Sl*g now?????? .......If you ask me that's f**king ridiculous! ------------- http://www.thefreshfilmblog.com/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: caretaker
Date Posted: April 15 2011 at 16:18
| I like both of these albums. Not as much as the more prog stuff. But, I still enjoy the first two albums very much and 90125 and Big Generator reminded me a little of them. |
Posted By: rematpac
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 02:08
 They certainly don't match up to Yes's 8 core studio albums ,but thank goodness for Trevor Rabin and his tremendous contribution to the Yes legacy.Without these fine albums,the band Yes may have folded long ago,and the 10 subsequent albums that came after,all worthy of the name Yes,might not even exist which includes such masterpieces as Keys to Ascention 1&2 and Yes Sympnonic Live.Plus there are a ton of new songs,I have never heard a bad Yes album or even one that doesn't contain the "Yes magic".90125 and Big Generator are fabulous albums.The joke attached to these albums is this : Some young kid states,"I think Yes are one of the greatest bands of all time.Their albums 90125 and Big Generator are just the greatest,aren't they!"And the kid is too young to be aware of such famous masterpieces as Fragile,Close to the Edge and all the rest.That is the only possible situation where those 2 albums could be considered a joke.As long as you're not in the same situation of that hypothetical(or even real)young kid,there is absolutely no reason to be ashamed of those albums at all.Enjoy them as you do the rest,because thet are indeed enjoyable and a true Yes purist would realize that and also of the iimportance of thoses albums,which was the continuation of the band,90125 giving them tremendous financial success and a whole new generation of Yes fans.
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Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 13:24
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Dug out Big Generator this afternoon as I haven't played it for a while. Side 2 of the original album is briliiant (Love Will Find A Way, Final Eyes, I'm Running and even Holy Lamb). I'm Running trounces anything on 90125. Having said that, I can take or leave side 1. |
Posted By: rematpac
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 16:12
 Good answer.The only problem I have with it personally is that it sounds like you're most definitely making the common fallacy of putting Yes's 1st 2 albums in a category all their own and implying that they're somehow less prog than the subsequent 6 core studio albums because the songs weren't 20 min. in length and they hadn't become well known yet.What about all the complex,unconventional vocal harmonies,the constantly changing intricate drumming of Bruford,taking conventional well known pop songs and turning them into little prog excursions,the classical themes coming from a distorted and often experimentally disonant sounding lead guitar,or the complex arrangements and use of chords more commonly used in jazz rather than pop.And not to mention that Time and a Word was the only studio album that the famous orchestral band Yes ever hired an orchestra to record with and the only time they used an orchestra until 1996.
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Posted By: rematpac
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 16:44
You do realize that answer puts you in the category of the old,proverbial joke about the young teenager claiming to be one of Yes's biggest fans,yet thinks Yes came into being with Owner of a Lonely Heart.But I guess you don't mind living dangerously with your wisdom about needing a parachute only if you intend to jump twice.
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