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Forum Name: General Music Discussions
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78362 Printed Date: August 04 2025 at 07:34 Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Why do so many people seem to oppose covers?Posted By: leonalvarado
Subject: Why do so many people seem to oppose covers?
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:18
In the world of covers, there are some good ones and some bad ones. Wait, that's also true in the regular world! Phil Collins just came out with an album of Motown covers and despite some bashing from people over the internet, the album has sold very very well and made it to #1 in the UK charts. I think many people are secretly buying it but that's only speculation on my part. Peter Gabriel also put out an album of just covers and many people seem fine with it. It wasn't until the third album when YES had a full album of their own material.
As long as there are great songs, people will cover them. I did an album a couple of years ago that covered many Genesis songs ( http://www.leonplaysmusic.com/Site/..html" rel="nofollow - http://www.leonplaysmusic.com/Site/..html ). Despite having some body like Steve Hackett commenting on how much he liked the album. Sales of the songs have slowed down to a crawl. I figure some of that it's just expected but along the way I have found that most people either like the idea of covers or hate it (unless they are done by somebody already famous). It seems to me that is a matter of perception more than anything else.
The divisions come from various angles. Some people actually think that covering a song is a way to make a "quick buck" on the part of the performer. This could not be farthest from the truth. Any of you who have made records before know how much time and money it takes to professionally record a song. On top of that, add the costs of licensing and the acknowledge that it is someone else's composition.
Covers are often compared to the original disregarding the artist intentions altogether. It would be silly for some unknown musician to try to "cash in" any big money through the recording of covers. So why doing them to begin with? Well, because people like me (and apparently Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins, YES, etc), just happen to love those songs enough to make alternate versions of them.
Covers give musicians an opportunity to study whilst at the same time pay homage to the music that for one reason or another, carries lots of personal feelings. Music is a form of art that touches all of us in many ways. As listeners as well as musicians. In that respect we all have the same thing in common and that's why I don't understand the sometimes reluctance to accept a cover song for what it is.
Without covering existing materials there would not be much of a classical music market. Jazz musicians do reinterpretations of famous pieces and many recording artists do great covers of songs (like Joe Coker's version of "With a little help from my friends").
For my part, I wish that people would listen to some of my covers and take them for what they are. Not replacements for the originals but alternate versions of great existing songs.
Replies: Posted By: Nathaniel607
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:28
I think it's just because it's not original material. Simple as that.
I like a good cover if it's done well, but I have to admit, some times I hear a cover and think, "what's the point?".
Also, I posted this on JMA, but this is easily the greatest cover ever;
Oh, and your link doesn't work. Probably cause you've got two "http"'s.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nathaniel607" rel="nofollow - My Last FM Profile
Posted By: RoyFairbank
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:30
Covers usually lack the genuine first-time arrangement or vocal that goes into a song. The song has been "laid down" in the style of the first singer, the original band and the composition of the song belongs "spiritually" to that band, (unless it was written for them [which makes it sort of a cover]."
Some good covers??? Some early rock songs were massively improved by the technology advances and pure drive of later decades. I think there are a lot of fine covers of 50s rock and roll standards. These are almost "open source." On the other hand, I think that the majority of good music is quite uncoverable. I disagree strongly with anyone who says Dylan is better through covers. It is an ignorant myth from people who've never heard Dylan. Even the best cover, All Along The Watchtower, can not win against the original. The others are not even close. Hendrix picked up on the rule of covering songs: make it completely different, you can't win the imitation game.
That's all I got to say right now, sorry if its a bit rushed.... Keep in mind that anyone who covers Genesis is a hero to me in any case!
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:52
I am neither a fan or an opposer of covers. I only want an original interpretation.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 11:57
I hate covers. I prefer discs to be shipped in an empty jewel case.
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 12:06
People generally do covers of records they like and then make the mistake of trying to keep to the original. So, I think why bother? I certainly wouldn't buy a cover of a record I liked that sounded like the original. I would (Quel Suprise) buy the original. Sometimes, artists do something original with a song I like and so I might buy it,but rarely. I often think they might be better off doing a song that didn't really work the first time round rather than the usual cover of classic songs.
------------- Help me I'm falling!
Posted By: KingCrimson250
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 12:33
It's a fine line between making the cover too similar, and thus redundant, or making the cover too different, and thus losing the original purpose or "soul" of the song, and most artists tend to err too heavily to one side or another.
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 14:28
Always room for a good cover
and
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 14:42
I generally don't like covers because I want to hear new material when I buy something. There are a few exceptions where the cover a well-known song is better than the original, but generally I'm not interested in hearing someone's interpretation of a famous song because I've already heard the famous song. It's better if a famous person is taking a relatively unknown song and making their own, but I will always generally think it's lame not to be playing your own material.
Nathaniel607 wrote:
Also, I posted this on JMA, but this is easily the greatest cover ever;
UGH I honestly flinched. Hey everyone, let's take an album known for its subtlety and do it in a format where subtlety is not possible!
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 14:45
Many people here seem to have a festish on originality.
Posted By: WalterDigsTunes
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 15:08
harmonium.ro wrote:
Many people here seem to have a festish on originality.
And others fetishize a dull re-tread of old ideas. That certainly seems to be the norm today.
Posted By: Henry Plainview
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 15:10
harmonium.ro wrote:
Many people here seem to have a festish on originality.
It's about repetition as much as it is about originality for me.
But other people seem to have a very different perspective on music than I do. I remember http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62177" rel="nofollow - talking to Atavachron about the Phil Collins motown album , and clearly I just don't get it. :S
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 16:17
Somewnere there's a place for covers?
------------- Help me I'm falling!
Posted By: krishl
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 16:45
Just imagine a world in which Jimi Hendrix never covered All Along the Watchtower.
Posted By: Nathaniel607
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 16:57
Henry Plainview wrote:
I generally don't like covers because I want to hear new material when I buy something. There are a few exceptions where the cover a well-known song is better than the original, but generally I'm not interested in hearing someone's interpretation of a famous song because I've already heard the famous song. It's better if a famous person is taking a relatively unknown song and making their own, but I will always generally think it's lame not to be playing your own material.
Nathaniel607 wrote:
Also, I posted this on JMA, but this is easily the greatest cover ever;
UGH I honestly flinched. Hey everyone, let's take an album known for its subtlety and do it in a format where subtlety is not possible!
I don't know, I quite liked it! I think they still managed to retain a bunch of the subtlety, but just give an interesting spin on things. I don't seriously think it's the greatest cover ever though - I do like it a bit, but it does have some humorous value as well!
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Nathaniel607" rel="nofollow - My Last FM Profile
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 17:08
Who is opposed to covers? Function bands only do covers and they tend to get tonnes of work if they're of quality Jazz musicians make their money and earn a lot of respect from playing covers of standards, likewise with classical musicians. When famous artists do covers they tend to make a lot from them, so who's hating on the covers guys? I've never met one of these people!
------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 17:32
^ Hi, nice to meet you TP.
I don't really care for covers because if I wanted to hear the song that particular group was covering I would see/listen to the original artist. Especially if I am paying for something I want it to be that artists own work. Sure, you can heavily rework the song, but still...why not just make a new song in that style that you're covering then? As a musician I can see why it would be fun to "jam out" to an established song in a basement or studio somewhere, but it doesn't really appeal to me.
TP does raise a good point about classical music...a lot of covering going on there. But even in the jazz world, I rather hear the orinigal 1920's version, but more often than not they probably don't exist or sound like sh*t, so I must settle for covered versions. Maybe it's just rock is too young.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 17:33
The music I despise the most is rock cover bands, doing classic songs like "living on a prayer" and "hotel california". It makes me feel sick.
When big artists do an album only with covers, it doesn't make me excited. I just get the feeling that they have run out of creativity, and if they choose popular songs there will be an automatic interest in the album, so they don't have to worry about sales. Toto's cover album was horrific. They chose classic rock songs. The second cd of Simple Minds Graffiti Soul (deluxe edition) was a cover album which had some interesting diverse song choices. But still, it's not that exciting to me. But it was a bonus cd, so it's great as a bonus. But throwing in one cover song on an album is allright. I think when playing in a band , it's so easy to just decide to do a cover, the whole song is already written and you can just have fun. It can be a priviledge. But I think bands should restrain themselves from doing covers. There should be a really good reason, for instance an idea of a different arrangement, or an ambition to emphasize stuff of the original and make it even better. There are songs that could be made better with a cover version. Tony Banks "Strictly Inc" is an album which has a very mechanical and stiff production. "Piece of You" could definitely be made better with a richer sound (with real drums and brass .... that synth brass solo sounds like a joke). But there are a lot of variation in the harmonies, so maybe it could really come alive in a cover version.
The movie "The Wicker man" had a nice song in it. The audio from the movie though isn't of the best quality. Thats a good example of when a cover version is really called for. I heard a good cover by Faith & Disease, but Nature & Organizations version is probably the best, with Rose McDowall on vocals. Better than the original, definitely!
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 17:57
wilmon91 wrote:
The music I despise the most is rock cover bands, doing classic songs like "living on a prayer" and "hotel california". It makes me feel sick.
I'm with you on that. I'd rather a band do bad originals.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Posted By: leonalvarado
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 18:20
I really don't understand the hate. I think covers should be judged by the level of interpretation just like any other songs. I understand that they do not involve the same level of creativity that it took for the original composers to come up with the song in the first place. At the same time, most people who have done some covers also have many original compositions of their own.
Doing a cover song doesn't necessarily mean that a musician doesn't have creativity. For the most part it means that they have strong enough feelings for a particular piece of music to recorded in their own way. The argument about only listening to the original is like never seeing a movie remake, a theatrical revival or anything that gets reinterpreted. despite what most people say, they do go watch remakes and sometimes listen to a cover song. If anything, they would like to put their curiosity to rest. Because after all, you never know and you may like what you hear.
I think many people don't like covers because they feel there is some sacred connection between the music and its originator. There is some truth in that statement however, music is written to be performed and many of the bands that created that music will cease to exist making covers even more relevant.
If it weren't for covers, nobody within our lifetime would have ever heard of names like Beethoven, Mozart, Litz, Chopin, Ravel, Tchaikovsky, etc. That, by itself, is a pretty good argument for the existence of covers.
I don't see it as much as comparing covers with original material because they are two different things. If you want to give an artist merit for his creativity, then you must go for his original work. If you want to hear a different take on one of your favourite songs, then a cover might just do the trick.
Remember that music is a very subjective issue. I just find it peculiar that some people can trash something with such convictions without as much as trying to understand the artist intentions. Some people love my covers, some people love my originals, some hate them both. As for me, I love Joe Coker's "With a Little Help From My friends" a lot more than the Beatles original, and I'm not bashing the Beatles who up until one point in my life were my favourite band.
To me there are good covers and bad covers but I'm not going to dismiss the concept just because. If I would have done so, then I would have never enjoyed versions like Mr. Cocker's or YES' version of Simon & Garfunkle's America (which I also happen to love).
People should be a little more open-minded, it only leads to better things.
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 19:18
leonalvarado wrote:
I really don't understand the hate. I think covers should be judged by the level of interpretation just like any other songs. I understand that they do not involve the same level of creativity that it took for the original composers to come up with the song in the first place. At the same time, most people who have done some covers also have many original compositions of their own.
The only thing I personally hate are the type of cover bands I mentioned. Your stuff seems to be a work of passion and I'm always curious towards tribute type of projects covering music that I really like.
An artists should always do what he feels like, but there are bands who do covers as an easy way out, playing songs live that people in the audience will recognize
Though Im not a fan of Imagine, I liked his version when Peter Gabriel played it live at the Olympic Games opening ceremony in 2006. I think he did a cool version, though Im not especially fond of the song.
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 19:31
Because they are hiding something?
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 19:48
The Truth wrote:
Some covers are great, some just shouldn't be attempted.
Should - Bowie's Heroes by Peter Gabriel
Shouldn't - Anything by Pink Floyd by another band.
Isn't it strange, then, that Bowie, on Pin-Ups, covered See Emily Play? :P
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 21:47
Alitare wrote:
The Truth wrote:
Some covers are great, some just shouldn't be attempted.
Should - Bowie's Heroes by Peter Gabriel
Shouldn't - Anything by Pink Floyd by another band.
Isn't it strange, then, that Bowie, on Pin-Ups, covered See Emily Play? :P
Bowie's version of "Let's Spend the Night Together" makes the Stone's original seem horribly mundane:
Thank god for coke and Mick Ronson.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 22:03
The Dark Elf wrote:
Alitare wrote:
The Truth wrote:
Some covers are great, some just shouldn't be attempted.
Should - Bowie's Heroes by Peter Gabriel
Shouldn't - Anything by Pink Floyd by another band.
Isn't it strange, then, that Bowie, on Pin-Ups, covered See Emily Play? :P
Bowie's version of "Let's Spend the Night Together" makes the Stone's original seem horribly mundane:
Thank god for coke and Mick Ronson.
I only recently dug into Bowie's 1970's career. Loved Ziggy, of course, and was surprised at how much I enjoyed Hunky Dory and Aladdin Sane. I definitely liked Low and "Heroes", but not enough to be anywhere near considering them masterpieces.
I have a fun little Lynyrd Skynyrd joke for youse.
They released their Street Survivors album in 1977. Maybe if they'd called it Sky Survivors they would've fared better. ;)
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 22:43
Alitare wrote:
I only recently dug into Bowie's 1970's career. Loved Ziggy, of course, and was surprised at how much I enjoyed Hunky Dory and Aladdin Sane. I definitely liked Low and "Heroes", but not enough to be anywhere near considering them masterpieces.
You might like Diamond Dogs, which I view as Bowie's most underrated album. Vocally, there are few Bowie songs that can top "Sweet Thing/Candidate/Sweet Thing (reprise)". Great album in an Orwellian sense.
Alitare wrote:
I have a fun little Lynyrd Skynyrd joke for youse.
They released their Street Survivors album in 1977. Maybe if they'd called it Sky Survivors they would've fared better. ;)
Ummm...yes. But I don't think it can top the sardonic humor of The Allman Brother's Eat a Peach. Why the title? Because Duane Allman died by driving his motorcycle into a truck full of peaches. He literally ate a peach.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 16 2011 at 22:56
The Dark Elf wrote:
Alitare wrote:
I only recently dug into Bowie's 1970's career. Loved Ziggy, of course, and was surprised at how much I enjoyed Hunky Dory and Aladdin Sane. I definitely liked Low and "Heroes", but not enough to be anywhere near considering them masterpieces.
You might like Diamond Dogs, which I view as Bowie's most underrated album. Vocally, there are few Bowie songs that can top "Sweet Thing/Candidate/Sweet Thing (reprise)". Great album in an Orwellian sense.
Alitare wrote:
I have a fun little Lynyrd Skynyrd joke for youse.
They released their Street Survivors album in 1977. Maybe if they'd called it Sky Survivors they would've fared better. ;)
Ummm...yes. But I don't think it can top the sardonic humor of The Allman Brother's Eat a Peach. Why the title? Because Duane Allman died by driving his motorcycle into a truck full of peaches. He literally ate a peach.
I did not know that, and I now treasure the information.
Posted By: leonalvarado
Date Posted: May 17 2011 at 08:10
Here is another link to my blog. Of all things, it discusses some aspects of one of the covers I've done. Feel free to read it, love it or hate it:
I'm sorry, but I am opposed to covers from forum members, particularly when that cover is advertised in a thread that is opposed to covers.
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:33
The Dream Theater album Uncovered is great.
One of the most awful covers I can think of is Bullet for My Valentine's version of Welcome Home Sanitarium. They completely kill the whole point of the song.
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:35
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: May 17 2011 at 21:49
What about the heinous My Chemical Romance cover of Desolation Row?
Posted By: wilmon91
Date Posted: May 18 2011 at 15:20
Come to think of it, one of my favourite albums, Filigree & Shadow by This Mortal Coil is made of "covers", at least the vocal tracks. But I didn't know it at the time I listened to the album for the first time (2003 I think it was). The original songs are pretty unknown, and it's definitely not an "collection of covers", it's a conceptual album the way I see it, with a very consistent feeling throughout it. I'm not so fond of the word "cover", I prefer "version" or "interpretation".
http://vimeo.com/kirbyferguson/everything-is-a-remix-part-2" rel="nofollow - Lazy link , and much of that that was remarkably pointless. Why yes, I had noticed that there's only a limited number of stories and archetypes possible in cinema, that doesn't mean there's many similarities between Avatar and Dune. I did like the specific comparisons against Star Wars, though.
Also, Newton was probably making fun of his hunchbacked rival, Robert Hooke, when he said that he stood on the shoulders of giants. ;-)
------------- if you own a sodastream i hate you
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: May 18 2011 at 18:12
That's strange, usually Chrome automatically makes the links I paste active; that's why I can't make hyperlinks when in Chrome.
The point isn't that there's a limited number of combinations to be done in film, but that Hollywood relies on this to make serious and consistent money. There's an amazing diversity in film actually, you just need to go beyond Hollywood productions.
Posted By: Earendil
Date Posted: May 18 2011 at 19:46
And this is one of the greatest covers ever- Kevin Gilbert's version of Back in NYC.
Posted By: leonalvarado
Date Posted: May 28 2011 at 22:37
On my first album I covered Genesis' "Hairless Heart". I speak at length about why doing a cover song is not an undignified form of doing music. My basic idea is to expand the argument that not all covers are conceived the same way and for the same purpose. Please feel free to read the blog and then we can discuss further in here. I do feel that artists that do covers get a bad rap without merit.