The Battle of the Keyboardists!

• Wakemans seriousness or Emersons wild antics.
• Wakemans moving style or Emersons explosive rapidness
• Wakemans "get the job done & do it great" or Emersons "hey look at me"
• Wakemans cape or Emersons weoponry

You choose! Personally I like Rick Wakeman. Now, wait,before all of you attack me like you did with the Dream Theater incident ( you know who you are).  GIve your opinion and don't attack me of mine. Thanks! Let the Battle begin!

-The Prog Man 

Wakeman with Yes > Emerson

Wakeman Solo < Emerson

I prefer Rick Wakeman's style of playing, just a tiny little bit.

But Emerson is the better composer.

I'm a huge fan of both men's work- yet I personally would choose Wakeman, as despite him being often as flash as Emerson sometimes, he had more subtlety in his piano work than Emerson's frantic workouts. 'Catherine Howard' and the beautiful 'Birdman Of Alcatraz' are some of the greatest compositions ever written. In fact, the piano motif that runs throughout 'The Myths And Legends Of King Arthur' is also one of my favourite piano pieces ever; it's short, but very sweet.

Wakeman actually made Yes worse IMO.

for that reason, I choose Emerson.

Trouserpress wrote: Both are rubbish in comparison to Kerry Minnear.

TP!

None of them are rubbish!  If you prefer Kerry Minear (Whom I saw twice in the 70's) I can understand but come on none of these guys are crap.  They are all accomplished musicians.

Syntharachnid wrote: WAKEMAN!!!

emerson

BOTH ARE GREAT KEYBOARD PLAYERS, I VOTE FOR BOTH...!!

http://imageshack.us">

Arioch wrote: Syntharachnid wrote: WAKEMAN!!! emerson

Arioch!  How you been?  Where you been? 

Missed you

Garion81 wrote: Arioch wrote: Syntharachnid wrote: WAKEMAN!!! emerson   Arioch!  How you been?  Where you been?  Missed you

oh, you know,here and there. Where are the rest of the geeks? Reed Lover? Monkey Boy Peter? James..I'm smarter than everyone else...Lee?

Emerson!

Trouserpress wrote: Both are rubbish in comparison to Kerry Minnear.

and I talk 'bollocks' trouserpress?  whether or not you like ELP or YES does not mean Emerson and Wakeman are crap.

Arioch wrote: Garion81 wrote: Arioch wrote: Syntharachnid wrote: WAKEMAN!!! emerson   Arioch!  How you been?  Where you been?  Missed you   oh, you know,here and there. Where are the rest of the geeks? Reed Lover? Monkey Boy Peter? James..I'm smarter than everyone else...Lee?

Lets see Reed Lover morphed into Tony R. (Or was he shamed into it? I can’t remember). Monkey Boy Peter is now Sheriff Rideout.  He joined the admin group.  James Lee took a self imposed exile. So he never posts now 'cept...... only unless the topic interests him (See "Vote in My poll" thread by Tony R).  Does that help?

NetsNJFan wrote: Trouserpress wrote: Both are rubbish in comparison to Kerry Minnear. and I talk 'bollocks' trouserpress?  whether or not you like ELP or YES does not mean Emerson and Wakeman are crap.

No doubt Trouser believes that Kerry Minnear is better but I think he says it the way he says it just to get a rise out of us.  Stirring the pot! Anyway he said they are rubbish in comparison to Minnear, not rubbish completely.

As for myself, I would choose Wakeman though mainly because he is a bit more prolific. I do agree that Emerson did some nice stuff with The Nice though!

Trouserpress wrote: Both are rubbish in comparison to Kerry Minnear.

Bobby Crush is better than all three

Trouserpress wrote: NetsNJFan wrote: Trouserpress wrote: Both are rubbish in comparison to Kerry Minnear. and I talk 'bollocks' trouserpress?  whether or not you like ELP or YES does not mean Emerson and Wakeman are crap. I said IN COMPARISON!! And I'll back myself up - Wakeman and Emerson both rely on flashy super-fast playing and OTT solos full of simple arpeggio runs that I, and many others find quite boring. Of the two, Wakeman is superior and more inventive, but neither are as amazing as they are made out to be. Both have also fallen into the trap of using some awfully dated sounds, especially Wakeman. Kerry Minnear's keys NEVER sound dated.

I think Keith Emerson's strength was the Piano and his left hand.  He drew from the Art Tatum style of slide (I am not suggesting he was in Tatum's league but he did try to use that style. Unlike a lot of other players who can't even touch it) 

 If you refer to his band work some of his solos had arpeggio and scales were that way as were Wakeman’s as were Banks. But one I can point to is the organ solo in Stone of Years from Tarkus. It was very inventive, tasteful and emotional.  When I heard that I started to believe that a keyboard could be right out front in the mix with a guitar as lead intsrument in rock.  

Minear was in a band that ran melody against counter melody so in essence sounded very complex.   To say Kerry Minear's keyboard never sounds dated is an opinion since they were all using the technology of the day.  I love all three and I love Tony Banks too.  All add something different. 

Wakeman of the 2, but I agree with trouserpress - Kerry Minnear is better than both, as is Tony Banks. I've just bought Pictures at an Exhibition and there's far too many errors on it. Emerson sacrificed accuracy and technique for speed and flashiness.

However, Richard Harvey of Gryphon is the best keyboard player I've heard and Jon Tout a close second.

Arioch wrote: Wakeman actually made Yes worse IMO. for that reason, I choose Emerson.

hey buddy if it wasn't for rick we would great albums like close to the edge, fragile, going for the one rick was f**king amazing on going for the one!!!!!!

rick is a more melodic player than emerson is just a show off but i do like the early elp do not works or later rick solo albums are excellents specially early ones like journey,white,crime,ect. keith solo stuff is sad very sad for such a great player so for that rick is better player.

Rick Wakeman

Trouserpress wrote: I agree... though Relayer was Yes' true masterpiece and Rick was curiously absent for it...

In your opinion

I still think Close to the Edge is the best Yes work, then Fragile but again, that's my opinion. I will say that I think Relayer is the most adventurous album of the three but the other two "speak" to me more.

Trouserpress wrote: darksideone wrote: Arioch wrote: Wakeman actually made Yes worse IMO. for that reason, I choose Emerson. hey buddy if it wasn't for rick we would great albums like close to the edge, fragile, going for the one rick was f**king amazing on going for the one!!!!!! I agree... though Relayer was Yes' true masterpiece and Rick was curiously absent for it...

relayer is a great albums by Yes,but it could a little loud which it sometimes get me tire,but going for the one has such beautiful songs in my opinion their masterpiece steve played mastefully and beautifully rick,steve and jon bring tears to my eyes when i listen to turn of the century,waken, and well the whole album is amazing timeless beautiful music. i wont change for anything in the world. ok maybe for sex!!! hahaha

Trouserpress wrote: I said IN COMPARISON!! And I'll back myself up - Wakeman and Emerson both rely on flashy super-fast playing and OTT solos full of simple arpeggio runs that I, and many others find quite boring. Of the two, Wakeman is superior and more inventive, but neither are as amazing as they are made out to be. Both have also fallen into the trap of using some awfully dated sounds, especially Wakeman. Kerry Minnear's keys NEVER sound dated.

Sure they do. Kerry stopped playing 25 years ago, right?

Arioch wrote: Syntharachnid wrote: WAKEMAN!!! emerson

Let's not get into this...

 Kerry Minnear is good - great.  Keith Emerson, we must remember - pioneered the "moog" and did some utterly fantastic work there - paving the way for just about every pop musician today that uses the keyboard and "effects." He was creative on stage and probably had tones of fun while he was at it.  What he did with the "keyboard" was pretty well unheard of at that time. We must give him credit for that at least. Keith  composed some nice stuff while with ELP and that, in my opinion, is enough to last any musician a life time!  Rick Wakeman is exceptional. They are too different to compare here musically I feel.  They both have made beautiful contributions to progressive rock.   It's nice to appreciate that they are both truly amazing in their own right.  I love to listen to Wakeman and Emerson. Personally I must choose Emerson - if not only for his pioneering work with the moog synthesiser.

Thoughts?

Emerson was superior to Wakeman on the hammond .Keith grew up with the hammond and mastered it before the keyboard snyth was even invented.I love the Hammond in prog and so Emerson is my favourite.As regards use of other keyboard instruments Keith was also a better synth player than Rick ,Aquatarkus (live) blows away anything Rick did easily.And then the old joanna.Take A Pebble,Fugue,KE9 2nd Impression.Name me one significant Wakeman piano peice? So in fact Keith just blew Rick out of the water totally in every department! Emerson was the innovator.Wakeman just came in his wake as did several other early seventies keyboard players.1970 -1973 Emerson was king. 

(All in my opinion of course!)

Keith

  Both are great. But if we had to pick one it would be Wakeman who could do well solo or group.

Banks is a better group player than either but is at a loss as a soloist.

The Prog Man wrote: The Battle of the Keyboardists! Wakemans seriousness or Emersons wild antics.

Wakeman, as I recall was serious with a paint roller. For me Keith Emerson is the man but I refer to his pre-surgery days (Ulnar surgery not BSS). Listening to both on Moogfest I have to admit RW is now the better of the two.

Fragile wrote: Trouserpress wrote: Both are rubbish in comparison to Kerry Minnear. Bobby Crush is better than all three

Hmm but what about Les Dawson?

Pugs wrote: Fragile wrote: Trouserpress wrote: Both are rubbish in comparison to Kerry Minnear. Bobby Crush is better than all three Hmm but what about Les Dawson?

Les Dawson was actually a very good pianist by all acoounts.Talking of celebs the diminutive comedian/actor Dudley Moore was also regarded as a fine player (RIP both of them)

Hmmm . . . Wakeman vs. Emerson . . . .

I honestly feel that Emerson has slightly more technical prowess and compositional talent than Wakeman.  Nevertheless, both are excellent musicians.  It is a shame that Emerson's hands are not in the best of shape anymore.  Having listened to several different shows from the Black Moon tour, his playing of the classics seems a bit sloppier and slightly simplified when compared to his 70's performances.  In comparison, Wakeman was in top form when I saw him perform on grand piano in VA Beach back in 1993.  He did a blistering rendition of Catherine of Aragon.  Better than the original!

Now, as for keyboard sounds and such, both seem relatively conservative.  For unique and interesting keyboard sounds, I would vote for Jim Gilmour of Saga.

On that note, Dennis, just what are Keith, Carl and Greg doing apart and not together? That's right, they're each very busy being their own nostalgia act. Aside from his contributions to the Godzilla: Final Wars soundtrack (which I suspect were already lying around in partially completed form), Keith hasn't done much new music for a long time; Emerson Plays Emerson 's title speaks for itself, and the Nighthawks and Iron Man reissues were all previously recorded music from 10-20+ years ago. Keith's done a few solo albums and soundtracks, and he did indeed create that awe-inspiring music for us circa '71-'73 (sorry, I don't really care for The Nice, ELP's much better), but it seems that after he shot his creative wad with ELP in the mid-70s, he's only had occasional flashes of brilliance. I really like 3/4 of ELPowell (the bonus tracks and half-assed version of "Mars" have got to go); To The Power Of Three album is a turd with keyboard sounds worse than Rick's cheesiest; Black Moon has its moments but I haven't listened to it for many years; and I no longer own In The Hot Seat, which houses ONE whole listenable track on it.

Rick gets put down at Keith's expense quite often. Why assume that Rick's contributions to progressive music in the early 1970's pale in comparison to Keith's with ELP? Perhaps they do, but it really depends on what you like. Rick recorded two albums with the Strawbs (not the Rick Wakeman Group), then he joined Yes to record Fragile, Close To The Edge, and Tales From Topographic Oceans before leaving Yes the first time. When you're one player in a group full of virtuosic rock musicians, everybody has to get their licks in, right? Those albums aren't chopped liver; the last one is an ambitious, unfairly regarded four-sided album. Dump on it if you will, but ELP wasn't spotless, not with that silly take on PAAE. Yes is an ensemble group; ELP was basically Keith Emerson and Friends, with the singer-bassist guy getting to whip out his guitar every now and then. Keith got to do whatever he wanted. Keith even forced O'List out of The Nice. It speaks volumes that Rick, at his level of talent, is able to coexist with a guitarist (he's even always had a guitarist in his own band) while still pulling off everything you'd expect from him. Between Keith and Rick, it's obvious that Rick was the more versatile musician, and Keith was the guy with the bigger ego (now Keith has to use a guitarist because he's not quite his old self). When Rick (with the fabulous Six Wives album already under his belt) staged his Journey and King Arthur productions, he was a guy in his mid-20s pulling off those spectacles, cheese-laden or not (hey, it WAS the '70s...again, look at ELP!). By the time he was 30 (1978), Rick was back in Yes, but he'd also recorded several soundtracks ("Ice Run" from White Rock is a killer Clavinet-oriented track, it's tops; I thought he couldn't do better than Keith?), not to mention what is probably the crown jewel in his solo catalog, Criminal Record. Rick can't play a synth as well as Keith? Bullsh*t. On that album, Rick shows us he could do just about anything. After BSS, Keith seriously started running out of gas, creatively speaking. Today, it's more obvious than ever, while Rick's put out some great albums (along with his share of turds, naturally), like 1984, Wakeman With Wakeman, and the recent retro/modern hybrid, Out There. What's next in Wakemanville? Apparently he's gearing up for a purely retro-styled album on which he'll employ Hammond C3 and L100, Mellotron (a real one, not an emulation), his RMI Roxichord, and his PolyMoog and MiniMoog (along with other gear). I, for one, can't wait. Rick's showed no signs of slowing down throughout his entire career, and he's toured like a foot soldier, too. What's Keith got on his plate for the near future? Regurgitating ELP classics recorded circa '71-'73, probably.

fractalman wrote: For unique and interesting keyboard sounds, I would vote for Jim Gilmour of Saga.

The first five Saga studio albums (1978-83) are loaded with great Moog sounds! Practically every Moog piece available back then short of a modular was used by Saga in those days. Nowadays, Jims Gilmour and Crichton and Michael Sadler vouch for their exclusively Korg setup. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but they don't extract the same quality sounds out of them. At least they whipped out Jim C's old MultiMoog for Network!

As a keyboardist: Emerson

As an overall musician: Wakeman

dropForge wrote: On that note, Dennis, just what are Keith, Carl and Greg doing apart and not together? That's right, they're each very busy being their own nostalgia act. Aside from his contributions to the Godzilla: Final Wars soundtrack (which I suspect were already lying around in partially completed form), Keith hasn't done much new music for a long time; Emerson Plays Emerson 's title speaks for itself, and the Nighthawks and Iron Man reissues were all previously recorded music from 10-20+ years ago. Keith's done a few solo albums and soundtracks, and he did indeed create that awe-inspiring music for us circa '71-'73 (sorry, I don't really care for The Nice, ELP's much better), but it seems that after he shot his creative wad with ELP in the mid-70s, he's only had occasional flashes of brilliance. I really like 3/4 of ELPowell (the bonus tracks and half-assed version of "Mars" have got to go); To The Power Of Three album is a turd with keyboard sounds worse than Rick's cheesiest; Black Moon has its moments but I haven't listened to it for many years; and I no longer own In The Hot Seat, which houses ONE whole listenable track on it. Rick gets put down at Keith's expense quite often. Why assume that Rick's contributions to progressive music in the early 1970's pale in comparison to Keith's with ELP? Perhaps they do, but it really depends on what you like. Rick recorded two albums with the Strawbs (not the Rick Wakeman Group), then he joined Yes to record Fragile, Close To The Edge, and Tales From Topographic Oceans before leaving Yes the first time. When you're one player in a group full of virtuosic rock musicians, everybody has to get their licks in, right? Those albums aren't chopped liver; the last one is an ambitious, unfairly regarded four-sided album. Dump on it if you will, but ELP wasn't spotless, not with that silly take on PAAE. Yes is an ensemble group; ELP was basically Keith Emerson and Friends, with the singer-bassist guy getting to whip out his guitar every now and then. Keith got to do whatever he wanted. Keith even forced O'List out of The Nice. It speaks volumes that Rick, at his level of talent, is able to coexist with a guitarist (he's even always had a guitarist in his own band) while still pulling off everything you'd expect from him. Between Keith and Rick, it's obvious that Rick was the more versatile musician, and Keith was the guy with the bigger ego (now Keith has to use a guitarist because he's not quite his old self). When Rick (with the fabulous Six Wives album already under his belt) staged his Journey and King Arthur productions, he was a guy in his mid-20s pulling off those spectacles, cheese-laden or not (hey, it WAS the '70s...again, look at ELP!). By the time he was 30 (1978), Rick was back in Yes, but he'd also recorded several soundtracks ("Ice Run" from White Rock is a killer Clavinet-oriented track, it's tops; I thought he couldn't do better than Keith?), not to mention what is probably the crown jewel in his solo catalog, Criminal Record. Rick can't play a synth as well as Keith? Bullsh*t. On that album, Rick shows us he could do just about anything. After BSS, Keith seriously started running out of gas, creatively speaking. Today, it's more obvious than ever, while Rick's put out some great albums (along with his share of turds, naturally), like 1984, Wakeman With Wakeman, and the recent retro/modern hybrid, Out There. What's next in Wakemanville? Apparently he's gearing up for a purely retro-styled album on which he'll employ Hammond C3 and L100, Mellotron (a real one, not an emulation), his RMI Roxichord, and his PolyMoog and MiniMoog (along with other gear). I, for one, can't wait. Rick's showed no signs of slowing down throughout his entire career, and he's toured like a foot soldier, too. What's Keith got on his plate for the near future? Regurgitating ELP classics recorded circa '71-'73, probably.

one of the best posts I've ever read - Wakeman is by far the more complete musician, Emerson burned our much too quickly as you pointed out.  We forget to mention Wakeman is one of the few (if only) musicians to have a *real* prog solo career that was succesuful.  Wakeman was ultra-sucessful on his own, as well as with Yes.  Keith just has ELP 1970-1974, and the Nice 1967-1970.

Don't think I am putting down Keith Emerson at all I mean we are comparing 2 of the geniuses of the genre.

How about Gen 13 and Pleasure and the Pain?  Why does PatP get so much flak anyway?  Aside from Where's My Money, it's an awesome album!  Albeit a very different Saga album; as was Gen 13.  I'd take PatP any day over House of Cards.  Saga was trying to hard to emulate their classic sound on that album --and it shows.

If I had to name weak albums that caused me to rethink my allegiances, they would be:

1)  Phil Collins - Both Sides

For the most part, Phil has been toast ever since he divorced his 2nd wife.

2)  Genesis - Calling All Stations

Thank G-d that was the only album that Genesis did after Phil left!  CAS had its moments, but I was not very impressed overall.

3)  Asia - Silent Nation

Their most pathetic work to date.  That said, I think their best acheivement since John Payne joined the band is Arena.  Aura was good, but not as good as it could have been.  Very poor utilization of Ian Crichton's talent.

4)  Rush - Vapor Trails

Geddy's singing and bass are as good as ever, but what happens to the more melodic Alex?  And Neil's playing, though good, did not break any new ground.  Overall, I quite enjoy Geddy's solo album more than Vapor Trails.

5)  Van Halen - OU812
6)  King Crimson - Construkction of Light

It has its moments, but The Power to Believe is better; and Thrak better still.  Furthermore, the version of Larks' IV on Happy is much better.

7)    Moody Blues - Time Traveller

I had a high opinion of Moody Blues from their "popular" music and the songs they played live in the 90's (I saw them twice in the 90's), but that all changed when I listened to the Time Traveller boxed set.  Needless to say, there are a handful of gems, but most of the stuff sound like glorified elevator music to me.

dropForge wrote: fractalman wrote: For unique and interesting keyboard sounds, I would vote for Jim Gilmour of Saga. The first five Saga studio albums (1978-83) are loaded with great Moog sounds! Practically every Moog piece available back then short of a modular was used by Saga in those days. Nowadays, Jims Gilmour and Crichton and Michael Sadler vouch for their exclusively Korg setup. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but they don't extract the same quality sounds out of them. At least they whipped out Jim C's old MultiMoog for Network!

^ You've got to be kidding...

I've got his 'Six Wives' and his 'Journey' albums... nothing on them compares to anything Emerson has done.  Tarkus, Trilogy, KE 9, especially Toccata... blows Wakey away I'm afraid... and even Wakey will tell you that Keith had the best fingers in the industry...

Watch the version of 'Hoedown' from the new ELP DVD... then try to say that!

^ that guy.

Logos wrote: I just listened to Wakeman's "Six Wives" album today and I have to say that it beats the living sh*t out of anything Emerson has ever done! Great album. I suggest that if you don't have it, get it. And that settles the fight between these two once and for all!

I love the Six Wives album (in my top twenty) ...and I would concede it is a very fine album and way better than anything Emerson did as a solo artist As for settling the fight between these 2 then I suggest you listen to Tarkus from ELP's live triple album.The fight goes on 

Dennis wrote: Points well taken dropForge. You are right, ELP had some losers too. I mean who could take "Love Beach" seriously although there were a couple of good tracks? Lets face it. Both musicians are well beyond their prime and their heydays are long gone. Maybe we should all just respect the fact that both Keith and Rick were/are pioneering prog-rock keyboardists that have greatly influenced the entire prog-rock genre? Both these guys get too much recognition. And yes, both are cashing in on the past. Emerson's recent reunion with The Nice was embarrassing.

Actually, Rick is not riding the coattails of his past accomplishments. He went back to Yes because they wanted him back (Yes needs Rick more than Rick needs Yes, assuming that's what you were getting at). Rick continues to compose and record NEW music. He releases something every year; he's got a brand new album of solo compositions, half composed, half improvised, on the organ at Lincoln Cathedral. I don't have it, as I just learned of it at  http://www.rwcc.com/discog_album.asp - http://www.rwcc.com/discog_album.asp . Rick still has a lot of music in him. I don't know what's in the water over at Isle Of Man, but I think America ought to start bottling it and importing it.

Dennis wrote: How about the other great pioneers of prog keyboards like Hugh Banton, Tony Banks,

VdGG's back together. Tony Banks hasn't gotten enough press? He's right in there with Rick and Keith.

Dennis wrote: Larry "Synergy" Fast (especially with Nektar)

Sorry, not a fan of Nektar. Very overrated group. Larry's Synergy albums are what I love. Accolades are afforded him, just not as often as the others. Then again, until recently, he was under the radar for quite some time. His Reconstructed Artifacts is an excellent revisiting of some classic Synergy tracks, rerecorded from scratch. Larry has new music coming, but it's in the slow cooker. We'll have to wait.

Dennis wrote: Vangelis

Now there's somebody whose best days are long behind him. He makes his money scoring films. He hasn't put out anything I've liked since the '80s.

Dennis wrote: Kerry Minnear

GG is talked about plenty.

Dennis wrote: Ian McDonald (for the Mellotron), or should it be Mike Pinder?

As in Moody Blues? I'm one of the guys who thinks the Moodies aren't prog.   Pinder doesn't interest me. For Mellotron, there's Banks and Wakeman (TFTO), followed by myriad other non-English prog groups.

Dennis wrote: There's probably a few more I'm forgetting at the moment. And yes, both Keith and Rick don't seem to have the chops as they used too. Both have become sloppy.

Keith, yes. Rick? Doubtful. He's kept up his technique. He even got faster as time went on. Pick up the DVD Live In Buenos Aires by Rick & The English Rock Ensemble (very affordable, DVD with bonus audio CD of a different concert). He plays like a madman. Even son Adam can't one-up Pops.

Dennis wrote: But I don't see any new symphonic prog-band keyboardists that have not been influenced by these two. An excellent example is the keyboarist for the Norwegian prog bands White Willow and Wobbler, Lars Fredrik Froisle. Both of the aforementioned pioneers have influenced him greatly.

Oh, yeah, it's obvious. Wobbler's still a good disc, even though I don't buy the "Torch Has Been Passed" tag. Other groups are just as good, but it's nice to have a band out of Sweden doing this since Par Lindh seems to be taking a breather.

If you like symph keys, I advise you to check out Motoi Sakuraba (look for the links I posted in the fantasy gamers/prog or whatever it is thread). For top-notch symphonic fusion, there's Kenso (also from Japan), if you're looking for something new and fresh that doesn't ape Wakeman/Emerson/Banks/Bardens/van der Linden (hey, have you heard Trace? two great mid-70s albums in Trace and Birds ...loads of keys, all instrumental!).

nousommedusolei wrote: I'd say, if there was a fist fight between the two, Keith Emerson would probably win. That crazy playing probably built him some muscle. Or was that the question?

Rick towers over Keith. Even odds.

fractalman wrote: How about Gen 13 and Pleasure and the Pain?  Why does PatP get so much flak anyway?

Because it's Saga's worst album.   It was recorded in a week. And it's painfully obvious.

fractalman wrote: I'd take PatP any day over House of Cards.  Saga was trying to hard to emulate their classic sound on that album --and it shows.

Er, to each his own, I guess. And HoC is preceded by Full Circle, which is a much better album. I don't think HoC emulates their classic sound the way FC and the latest one Network do. And Saga may as well, because if they don't sound like Silent Knight, they end up sounding like Behaviour, or Security Of Illusion, which I can do without.

fractalman wrote: Asia - Silent Nation Their most pathetic work to date.  That said, I think their best acheivement since John Payne joined the band is Arena.  Aura was good, but not as good as it could have been.  Very poor utilization of Ian Crichton's talent.

Asia's pathetic. I can only listen to some of the Wetton songs...and I still don't own any Asia CDs.

fractalman wrote: 4)  Rush - Vapor Trails Geddy's singing and bass are as good as ever, but what happens to the more melodic Alex?  And Neil's playing, though good, did not break any new ground.  Overall, I quite enjoy Geddy's solo album more than Vapor Trails.

I love Vapor Trails. It's aggressive, it's heavy, it's the in-your-face comeback I knew they were capable of. They just took a while getting around to it.

fractalman wrote: 5)  Van Halen - OU812

Balance is much better, and overlooked. Don't bother with F.U.C.K.

fractalman wrote: 6)  King Crimson - Construkction of Light It has its moments, but The Power to Believe is better; and Thrak better still.  Furthermore, the version of Larks' IV on Happy is much better.

Yeah, TPTB is better. The next one could be better than TPTB, who knows.

threefates wrote: I've got his 'Six Wives' and his 'Journey' albums... nothing on them compares to anything Emerson has done.

Pick up the remaster of Criminal Record  and get back to me. It's a landmark work, IMO. There's stuff on there Keith never would have cooked up. Rick's always been the more versatile of the two.

dropForge wrote: threefates wrote: I've got his 'Six Wives' and his 'Journey' albums... nothing on them compares to anything Emerson has done. Pick up the remaster of Criminal Record  and get back to me. It's a landmark work, IMO. There's stuff on there Keith never would have cooked up. Rick's always been the more versatile of the two.

Now I know your on meds... Someone sent me a copy of Criminal Record years ago.. Don't see what you think is so great or that Keith couldn't have done...

The one thing about Wakey that always amazed me was the stiffness in his music.  He even displays that in the way he moves when he plays.  He's definitely not the more versatile...

threefates wrote: Now I know your on meds... Someone sent me a copy of Criminal Record years ago.. Don't see what you think is so great or that Keith couldn't have done...

You're only thinking in terms of execution, of actually playing the notes. Either guy could play each other's lines if the other handed him the tabs. I'm talking about ideas.

richardh wrote: As we're throwing names of prog keyboard players around ,then Par Lindh deserves a mention.

You didn't read my post up above closely enough.

dropForge wrote: richardh wrote: As we're throwing names of prog keyboard players around ,then Par Lindh deserves a mention. You didn't read my post up above closely enough.

OK I have now

Very good observations from both dropForge and Dennis. Both of you are heads and shoulders above me when it comes to having heard the recordings of both of these keyboard genius's.

My $.02:

Wakeman started out as a sideman. Bowie's "Hunky Dory" (Life on Mars? is Rick) is the prime example I can think of at the moment. He turned down an offer to join the Spider's From Mars to join Yes (miracles do happen).

Even in Yes, Rick's contributions, writing-wise, were minimal. He embellished the compositions.

Now, Emerson, on the other hand, bore the burden of being the prime composer in ELP. And in that regard, outshined Rick.

Longevity-wise, Rick is the winner. The man is still putting out music with integrity where Keith hasn't done much of anything noteworthy in the last 10 years or so.

To conclude, Keith's compositional work, at his prime, outshined Rick's.

Staying relevent to the music community over the span of time Rick gets my nod.

Personally, I'd call it a draw.

I'm a huge ELP fan and Emerson shall always be my no.1 musical hero, but he has lost it, no doubt (listen to Vivacitas and watch ELP's Live in Montreux DVD it's embarassing), due to his handproblem which is very very sad. But I repsect the man tremendously that he keeps going, I loved the Godzilla Final Wars soundtrack on which he played. It shows the versatility of the man.

 But Wakeman is much, much better(technically speaking) these days! No question!

Look at this: http://billysherwood.com/wall/index.html - http://billysherwood.com/wall/index.html  and http://billysherwood.com/wall/thewall.html - http://billysherwood.com/wall/thewall.html

Nice list of musicians with Wakeman and Emo on the same record.

Emerson is more technical, Wakeman is more inventive.  Emerson is my favorite though, simply because he was able to keep his ego in check. Wakeman was too extravagent, Emerson saved his graneur for the live shows. ELP were one ofthe 70s top concert draws. 

Don't Forget Patrick Moraz

Tenorsaxman89 wrote: Emerson is my favorite though, simply because he was able to keep his ego in check.

(He don't know ELP vewy well...do he?)

Tenorsaxman89 wrote: Don't forget Patrick Moraz

For that matter, don't forget David Sancious.

dropForge wrote: Tenorsaxman89 wrote: Emerson is my favorite though, simply because he was able to keep his ego in check. (He don't know ELP vewy well...do he?)

ha ha.  a least his ego was tolerable from 1967-1974 when he was still making great great great music.

since 74 -  (although Works 1 has its moments)

Tenorsaxman89 wrote: Emerson is more technical, Wakeman is more inventive.  .

Actually I believe it to be the other way round,which is why I'm an ELP fan.Wakeman was very fluid as a player (more so than Emerson) but Emerson was full of ideas and inventiveness,escpecially in the period 1970-1973.ELP would have been nothing without Emo coming up with so many great ideas.Greg Lake was an excellent singer,guitarist and wrote some good songs but could never have carried the band.Carl Palmer was a 'technician' solely.The creative force in ELP was Emerson.Emerson carried the band.Yes on the other hand have always existed quite happily without Wakeman,both live and studiowise.

It is fairly obvious for RichardH and Three Fates to vote for Emerson - when ELP is their favourite artist........

Tony banks, Badens and Par Lindh are all underrated - they have produced sublime keyboard moments - just as fine as the Caped crusader and Emerson.

But Wakeman must get the nod here - He produced FAR more QUALITY than Emerson - and if anybody cannot see that then they are just BLINKERED !!!!

Wakeman - better composer for sure, more quality and more able to add to a band sound....

BiGi wrote: And concerning technical skills, my pick will always be Jon Lord!

Jon Lord was a Prog Musician at the begginning, and was leading Deep Purple into that way, but I don't know if we could compare him with Emerson and Wakeman wich are purely prog.

both are great

but i always prefer to my idol....

the keyboard wizard!!!

Jon Lord was a masterfull hammond organ player for sure,but hardly made much of a name on other keyboard instruments.Emerson rated him very highly which is great praise in my book

Also (in case I havn't mentioned him already) Vincent Crane of Atomic Rooster was a great Hammond specialist.Certainly up there with Lord.

Who in christs name is Kerry Minear...?

It can only be Emerson.............Wakeman is a brilliant keyboard player but he ain't flamboyant, also he's a christian, and i'm a roman.....now where the hell are those lions??????????

In solo projects, at a band (Strawbs or Yes), on stage or anywhere RICK WAKEMAN.

Iván