That is my thought. Its unlike ANYTHING I have ever heard. Its clearly crafted from the imagination of several individuals. I bit my tongue until the the third review, which stated "generic prog" I couldn't see whom they could have copied the template from?

however, I have played this song to friends and my wife...they sit and look at it as if i've played an unremarkable  barry manilow song.

well no need to be pissy... He wasn't trying to say his taste was superior... I think

I think it's overrated in prog circles. It's an OK song and all but nothing too special and the verses aren't that great. 

It's kinda stupid to call it "generic" prog as it is the bands that were inspired by Genesis that made the sound of Genesis become "generic". 

And yeah, if you like it doesn't matter if others don't yadda yadda.

It's a perfect prog song with the greatest prog guitar solo for sure. 

 

That's what happens when someone can only look at the notes and the chords and they have never once listened to music in their lives, and have no idea what the emotion and beauty behind it is all about!

 

If you want to learn more about this, the film Amadeus is a good primer on it ... even if it is a movie!

 

But Salieri's are everywhere, specially these days with their DAW's! I probably would have gotten huffy and puffy about that ... I already do this at the Cakewalk board, where many of them love to tell you that you are not a musician, therefore you do not know music and will never know music ... and I can say the exact opposite to them ... they have never experienced anything except the notes and chords they know ... !!!

 

Same old battle ... nothing has changed. Ignorance will always be ignorance and that's that ... I would not bother posting in a place where everyone is just kissing someone else's behind simply to get attention, and make them feel better! As for me, it's not about me ... it's always the music! ... not the notes!

Firth of Fifth does not fit with the later prog era, its very classical in its composition, a lot of movements that are brilliantly assembled into one of the most perfect songs, we proggers, have probably heard.

 

I do believe for reasons already stated above it is not well liked and considered blah by a 20-30 something listener......But in the context of early 70's......Its pretty much a masterpiece in my book.

 

At the end of the day who cares what others think, just have comfort in knowing that you appreciate a great pc of music...and you understand why you do.

But most importantly, it lasts beyond 3 minutes and doesn't explicitly deal with women, cars, or bling. 

 

If the w*****s on the other forum don't appreciate it, that's their tough luck and bad taste. I think it's one of the perfect prog tracks, no - one of THE perfect music tracks.

 

Keep telling it how you see it and don't back down.

Welch was a massive Genesis & Yes fan, in fact of prog in general. He was one of its biggest supporters in the music press.

With regard to previous comments, Firth of Fifth is a great piece of music, and I also think that the Seconds Out version is magnificent.

 

Yep, precisely how I remember it (aside from the gigs with Welch!).

Welch never did as I remember it. He wrote a positive article about neo prog in the eighties for Kerrang around about 1985. I also saw him at ELP's 25th anniversary convention in 1995 so he was still very interested in the genre.

How could we not forgive you?

Allan Jones was and is a wa***er.

 

Thanks for the huggy ! 

 

Too bad but that's just one song, the real sad thing is that most people do not appreciate anything prog at all, even if prog is nowadays such a broad concept.

 

What were the songs those people in that other forum posted?

I enjoying singing Gabriel's vocals while playing Rutherford's parts on bass....much fun!  

well 'punk'  came from the same stream and it's just as infected by that whole post-modern(image and attitude above technique) stream of 'art' as prog is by the modernist tendency to elevate technique above other considerations...  there is a similar tension included in works by The Who(and they don't suffer artistically because of it, but thrive)...

I think the fact that I've lived a bit longer in spite of some 'infection' by the 'post-modern' has really soured me on the 'innovations'... nowadays, street culture, trendy, non-representational art(not all of it), and trash rock make me queasy... it all feels rather suicidal... heroin-addicted, film-school dropout transvestites just don't appeal like they used to 

Can I have a link to that forum or can you at least tell me its name?

 

Those guys are just a****les who can't appriciate good music

 

Alright, you smart-alek, you asked for it...

 

Good music includes, but is not limited to:

 

The Beatles, Dave Brubeck (Quartet), Cardiacs, The Clash, Coldplay, Devo, The Doors, Driftless Pony Club, Fred Firth, Adrian Belew, Andy Summers, Robert Fripp, Pat Metheny, Genesis, George Harrison, Dilika, Boyoyo Boys, German Hadbe, Mzikayifani Buthelezi, Lemon Demon, Charlie McDonnel, The Moutain Goats, (James Chance and) The Contortions, Mars, DNA, Queen, Rush, Larrena Segura, Sex Pistols, Ravi Shankar, Paul Simon, Simon and Garfunkel, (The Cast of) Spongebob Squarpants, They Might Be giants, Trio M, The Who, (The Cast of) Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, Wings, Yes, Gentle Giant, Aaron Goldburg, Doctor Nut, Lucas Bieljewski, Ozark Softscape, Luciana Souza, Alexandre Riberiro, Ralphtheheadoflettuce, Erwine Beekveld, Strawberry Alarm Clock, Joey Dee and the Starlighters, Grand Funk (Railroad), Jimmy Dean, Bob and Doug McKenzie, Men at Work, The Police, Bruce Springsteen, Orson Wells, Yorkshire Records, Ludwig van Beethoven, Peter Gabriel, Bobby McFerrin, Boston, Bill Crosby, Sting, Abbot and Costello, Laurie Anderson, The Aquabats, Glenn Branca, John Cage, Captain Beefheart (and His Magic Band), Buckner and Garcia, Chuck Corea, Ornette Coleman, Jonathan Coulton, David Byrne, Brian Eno, Arto Lindsay, Ambitious Lovers, The Golden Palominos, Kevin Drumm, Emerson, Lake, and Palmer, Jeff Foxworthy, Fripp and Eno, Jim Giffigan, Phillip Glass, Hank Green, Scott Jones, Joy Division, New Order, Keane, King Crimson, Geddy Lee, Tom Lehrer, John Lennon, Merzbow, Monty Python, Callie Moore, Pere Ubu, Lou Reed, REM, Renaissance, Rhett and Link, Soundgarden, Supersilent, Talking Heads, Mike Telesmanick Trio, Van Der Graaf Generator, Edgar Varese, Weird Al, and Frank Zappa.

I'd prefer a definition, not examples.

 

I have two:

 

Definition of music: sound

Definition of good music: good sound

 

or

 

Definition of good music: music that can be enjoyed passivly and attentivley, or, pleasing to both the body and the mind.

rogerthat wrote: I don't understand why does it matter at all if something is the best or not in music.  Is your personal listening experience important or its validation thereof by others whose opinion you probably attach a lot of weight to, irrespective of whether or not you choose to deny it.

Why would any one of us follow the others blindly and say "Firth of Fifth" is one of the best things there ever was? I think the gentlemen were very sincere about it. As for the rest of what you said, I strongly agree with you.

So?  Do you not trash bubblegum pop just because, from your prism, it is terrible music?  Do you ever pause to think that your poison might be somebody else's meat?  It's simple, if I am made to listen to something I don't like, I may not have something nice to say about it.  Would you ever return to a restaurant or say it's a good place to eat if your first experience there was disastrous? You'd probably be afraid to recommend it lest your friends curse you for making a poor suggestion.  It's only in the arts that this one sided political correctness business is observed wherein "my favourite piece of music shalt never be dissed, but I shalt diss what I think is crap".

 

me too

I am sorry but that's absolutely irrelevant to this discussion.   If I am recommended something and I don't like it, I am entitled to say so.  Sometimes, my reaction would not be completely tempered.  That's inevitable because music induces emotions from us, the kind that make you bring up Dream Theater even on a Firth of Fifth thread, for instance.    And anyhow, get done with beating around the bush already....you don't like pop and therefore you feel like expressing your dislike.  Being subjected to it in supermarkets or restaurants only aggravates your irritation but the point is you don't enjoy it.  You think it's ok to diss supposedly unskilled music but not a bunch of super talented musicians playing crap.

"

Er, they are entitled to think it's boring,no?  The OP has actually only asked if he was overrating it for some reason which somehow turned into a pretext for dtg to rant against DT 'haters'.  When somebody doesn't like any music I suggested and makes it plain, I just stop and move on.  It's best for both sides.  I cannot force him to listen to something he doesn't enjoy and I also cannot modify my opinion of the music just to match it with his.