what is art rock?
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Topic: what is art rock?
Posted By: Grace Flower
Subject: what is art rock?
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:19
| do you think art rock can be considered prog rock? |
Replies:
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:31
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ummm... well, to echo your topic title, what exactly is art rock? definition, please? ------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: The Hemulen
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:32
| http://www.progarchives.com/Progressive-rock.asp#3 |
Posted By: Humanizzimo
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:36
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But what elements the music needs to be considerated as art rock??
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:43
| I've told by a few it is a term interchangeable with 'progressive rock'!!!???? As a reminder, Rolling Stone in their review of Styx, made a comparison calling Yes 'art rock'.........which sounds peculiarly an American journalise use of the term. I think Roxy Music were called 'art roc'k in the UK - but half remember glam rock bands who aimed at the album buying market rather than the singles charts, were labelled this - e.g. Queen, Be Bop Deluxe and early 70's Bowie..............................i |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:48
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When I was in my teens in Canada during the late 70's , I had never heard of the term progressive rock , although I new some of those bands were qualkified of progressive. All I ever heard was the term Art Rock. It was when I came back to Europe in the late 80's, that most people misunderstood me as I spoke of art rock and thought I was speaking of hard rock! Then they told me this was called prog rock....... News to me! ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Infinity
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:49
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Sub-genres, sub-divisions, sub-machines
------------- I can't remember what I said I lost my head. __________________________ |
Posted By: The Minstrel
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:52
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I always considered Art Rock the most pop sounding form of rock with bands like Supertramp, Styx, Roxy Music, etc. |
Posted By: Progger
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 11:53
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A band that has always been labelled as art rock is British band 'Magnum'. I think it's because some of their songs are of epic lenghs with elements of both prog & FM/stadium rock. Therefore, I've always considered that art rock is a mixture of prog & radio freindly rock! Another band that I would put in this category is 'Boston'. |
Posted By: Humanizzimo
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 12:13
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A.C.T. is considerated art rock??
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Posted By: Gloryscene
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 12:24
Definitely, music is music. So who cares if isomething should fall into a different sub genre of prog. If music is progressive in nature then that suits me just fine! ------------- "The Beautiful Ally Of Your Own Gravediggers" www.gloryscene.co.uk |
Infinity wrote:
Posted By: GoldenSpiral
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 12:38
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I recently read an article in an independent music magazine (i forget which one) that had a feature on modern 'art rock' which featured The Mars Volta, Queens of the Stone Age, Mike Patton, the Secret Machines, ...And you will know us by the trail of dead, and a few others. the point is, the term 'art rock' is pretty loosely applied, so I wasnt sure what you meant by it, whether by the definition on this site (which is generally restricted to bands very close to prog, or pomp/proto-prog), or by some other definition.
------------- http://www.myspace.com/altaic" rel="nofollow - http://www.myspace.com/altaic ALTAIC "Oceans Down You'll Lie" coming soon |
Posted By: Humanizzimo
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 12:56
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Posted By: Phallusdei
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 13:23
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I guess I would consider Roxy Music, Bowie from 76-80,Wire,Eno/Fripp,Can,Talking Heads,Early Ultravox etc etc.....to be 'art rock'. None of the above could remotely be considered Prog, except Fripp for his King Crimson stuff. -------------  
"The only notes worth bothering with come in wads" |
Posted By: robertplantowns
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 13:52
| Even though A.C.T tends towards shorter songs and has many catchy hooks, these characteristics aren't ultimate qualifiers for considering a type of music as art rock. A.C.T. is more progressive than most, and labeling them art rock is a misunderstanding of the art rock label. Art rock is just what it implies, rock done in an artistic way with fourishes of progressive elements. |
Posted By: maani
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 13:55
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All: It has taken me some time, but I believe I have tracked down the origin of the term "art rock," and what it is vis-a-vis "prog rock." The term seems to have originated in the early to mid-1970s, and was originally applied to British groups whose members (or the "primary" member(s)) went to art school. At the time, this term included such wide-ranging prog and quasi-prog groups as King Crimson (Fripp was an art school attendee), Pink Floyd (Barrett, Waters), Yes (Anderson), Genesis (Gabriel), Queen (Mercury), 10CC (Kevin Godley, Lol Creme), Supertramp (Davies, Hodgson), and Gentle Giant (Minnear, Ray Schulman), among others. [N.B. Interestingly, neither The Moody Blues nor Jethro Tull were ever considered "art rock"; the former were always termed "prog rock" and the latter "folk rock".] One phrase widely used to describe these art school-founded bands was "British progressive art rock." Eventually, the word "art" was dropped, and the more generalized term "progressive rock" was applied. At this point, with the exception of Queen and 10CC, all the "art rock" bands simply "morphed" into "prog rock" bands. Thus, if there is a "criterion" for "art rock," it is simply that one or more members of the group went to art school, and the band was either founded during that time or immediately after. Hope that's helpful. Peace. |
Posted By: omri
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 15:44
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Maani made me totaly confused. If art rock is just a band that some of it's members went to art school then it is not a genre ! I have no idea what art rock is but in this site Rush, Kansas & Robert Wyatt are classified under that title. Rush & Kansas are very rocky bands and IMO are close to prog metal. Wyatt is close to Avant-garde and totally different than the other two mentioned. All 3 are definitely prog so art rock can not be rock bands that are close to prog (or those 3 does'nt belong to art rock). ------------- omri |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 16:09
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Some Prog Rock is Art Rock, some Art Rock is Prog Rock. Subgenres, eh? |
Posted By: Prog_Traveller
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 16:09
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It is debatable as to what exactly art rock means just like theres much debate as to what prog is. The way I see it is that art rock is a looser more general definition of prog. You know how some people argue about whether or not a band is prog or not? Well there is argument there because those bands often have strong qualities of prog but some don't quite see them as being prog(think Strawbs, Supertramp, Moody Blues, Styx even often times people will claim Pink Floyd, RUsh and Kansas aren't prog). There is no denying these bands have strong prog elements regardless of whether you consider them prog or not. My point is art rock doesn't have the same high criterion as prog. As long as it sounds arty and not like regular rock n roll it could be considered art rock. Think of it this way. All prog is art rock but not all art rock is prog. It is true that some people use the term art rock to mean glam rock groups like Bowie, Roxy Music and whoever else as well as 10 CC, BEbop Deluxe etc. But I think the point there is that groups who weren't as complex and did more song oriented material were labelled art rock.It just so happens that some glammish groups fit into that context.
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Posted By: kirklott
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 16:25
That's like saying food is food, and it's pointless to tag a restaurant as Chinese, Indian, Mexican, etc. The fact is sub-categories of progressive rock are very useful. In my case, they help me pick out bands I like. I prefer symphonic prog (Yes, Genesis, ELP), as opposed to art rock (Styx, Asia, etc.). The only problem arises when groups are grossly mislabled - for example, Cairo is listed as art rock on this site, when in fact the band's style is more accurately symphonic prog.
------------- "Progressive rock is the key to the continuance of human evolution." - Charles Darwin |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 17:02
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As I know, Art Rock had different meanings acroos the years: In the late 60's very early 70's: Art Rock was another word to call Progressive Rock, both terms could be used without aby problem to describe the same genre. Since the 80's up to today: Art Rock is the simplest form of Progressive Rock, on other words the exact border that divides Prog from mainstream, mainly from POP, we can include bands like ASIA, Roxy Music, Styx, Be Bop de Luxe, etc, bands which are not 100% progressive but are more elaborated than POP. This term was created to divide this bands from the Neo Proggers, who were much simpler than early Prog' but definetely part of the Progressive Rock Genre. In many web sites: Art Rock is were people and critics luymp all the bands that can't be clearly in any sub-genre, I seen people calling Uriah Heep or Anglagard Art Rock which IMHO is wrong. Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 19:00
Correction: strictly 'progressive music' not 'rock' until at least 1970..... check up the track listing on Wowie Zowie The World Of Progressive Music. The Kinks and Yardbirds were art college men but in the period 1960 to 1965. Bonzo Dog Do dah Band were perhaps the epitomy of art college students. So what does that make Floyd as former architectual school students! Or Brian May a former post graduate resesearch radio astronomer? |
Posted By: frippertronik
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 20:09
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i was making me the seem question, what is art rock? i think that is a sub-division for groups that have many qualities of the prog-rock, but can't be qualified in nothing of the existent genres of prog. for ex: rush. ------------- a plague of lighthouse keepers |
Posted By: JesusBetancourt
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 21:18
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Thats it Ive had enough of this foolishness......I have been listening to progressive music for quite sometime for some one of my young age. I stumbled upon this sight earleir this year and I really and truley enjoy all the great people on this sight that share my love of this art form. The one thing I cannot agree on is this whole sub-genre mess. Progressive music is progressive music period.(not prog rock, prog metal, rio, art rock, etc, etc ,etc) I was completly taken aback by this labling. I am very sorry for exploding like this but this really is a bit redicules...the worst part with all due respect is that people use the definitions on this website like a official rulebook on progressive music. Truth is that these defintions are only there to help describe a certain music not to lable them. Once again I apologise for this but I just need to get this of my chest. ------------- "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water" John 7:38 |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 19 2005 at 21:53
I'm also listening Prog' since my young age, for about 27 years, and this subgenres thing is relatively new for me, but I don't see things so simple. Always asked myself what's the connection between for example Foxtrot and Bboom? between Relayer and Sheherezade and other Stories? or even worth between Thick as a Brick and Octavarium? You can say it's all Progressive Rock, but the differences among them are as big as the similarities, all have different influences, sounds and structure, so it's necesary to put some order. to find what bands have something in common with others and which are completely different. Rio Bands have as many differences with Symphonic bands as they have with Hip Hop, so the simple term Progressive Rock is to narrow to describe all this bands and sub-genres. I believe sub-genres help a lot to understand the complexity of Progressive Rock. And don't believe this is the only place where sub-genres are mentioned, check for example: http://www.gepr.net/gepr_styles.html - http://www.gepr.net/gepr_styles.html or http://www.progressor.net/articles/genres.html - http://www.progressor.net/articles/genres.html both well respected web sites and you can see the issue can be seen more complex or simple, but the sub-genres are always mentioned. So don't accuse people of foolishness for talking about genres, because it's something that make more interesting the genre we love so much. Iván -------------
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 04:18
In the Archives , Art Rock is bit the "throw in every group that do not fit in others" category. When there were discussions about re-organizing the sub-genre , I was a bit dismayed at Rush and Kansas being art rock too. but where to fit them? Early Rush could be in Progmetal but from Signals on? I also wanted to take away early prog groups and place them in a proto-prog category , but lack of support helped me forget this. Are Vanilla Fudge , Spring , Indian Summer Art Rock? Not really IMHO. ------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 07:37
| The most famous 'art rock' album has to be Dark Side Of The Moon.That is the best example for this sub genre as it is so well known.I take the term 'art rock' to be a less complex form of progressive rock that relies more on songs and lyrics than instrumentation.Its actually this very album that has muddied the waters and why there is so much confusion.Progressive rock (style wise) was and still is ELP,Yes and Genesis albums made 1970-1973.Again this is a simple and widely accepted benchmark for 'progressive rock' as we know it.All else are sub genres IMO. |
Posted By: Frasse
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 10:20
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Sounds like a good idea to me, to include a proto-prog genre, but IMHO Art Rock suits quite enough. If all Prog Rock is Art Rock, then Art Rock must have been the first genre, the first Art Rock bands are the same bands as the first proto-prog bands. But it could be good to easy see which bands was more like an infuelce to the real prog bands by label them proto-prog rather than think of them as just another Art Rock band. |
Posted By: Grace Flower
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 12:12
| well, I see many answers; in my opinion art rock is a nonsense classification: if we consider Kansas an art rock band rather than a symphonic prog one probably we mean that Kansas sound is more hard, so where's the pointness of this classification? It will be necessary define them a hard prog band! I'm agree with The Minstrel: he says that art rock band are nexter to pop sound (in most of cases) and it is the case of Styx. Rush is a particular case, since they can't be defined in any way, they are a subgenre themselves! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 17:16
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I have a good example for a band which is out of symphonic prog and art rock: Yes Their album "Close To The Edge" is 100 % symphonic and considered as symphonic prog. So why they are sometimes called as a art rock band? Take their double album "Tales From Topocgraphic Oceans" and the epic "Awaken" which aren't really symphonic, more sophisticated, more soft and natural. That's what I would call art rock. They are also a symphonic prog band and as addition an art rock band. It's a question of structure, hardness and sophistication. That's my definition of art rock. |
Posted By: Fitzcarraldo
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 18:43
Since I first started listening to Prog Rock in the early 1970s I've used the term Art Rock interchangeably with Progressive Rock (especially symphonic). I'm not sure about maani's explanation. I've always assumed the term Art Rock is a play on the term Art Music, viz. an attempt to label a type of rock music that has classical influences, classical pretensions or simply a complexity not inherent in other popular music (rock, pop). art music n
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: July 20 2005 at 23:03
Yes Fitzcarraldo, I even read sometime a magazine about Progressive Music called Art Rock Magazine. The term of course has changed, but that's anothe story. Iván -------------
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