XTC, Rod Argent, Garfield
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93053
Printed Date: April 29 2025 at 08:33
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: XTC, Rod Argent, Garfield
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Subject: XTC, Rod Argent, Garfield
Date Posted: April 17 2013 at 21:23
|
XTC. A glaring omission, IMHO. Could nobody have possibly brought them up until now? They have most certainly influenced artists who are clearly prog, and Colin Moulding has participated in a few tribute albums, and in Billy Sherwood’s Prog Collective. I always thought It Bites had a sound influenced by them, the same unexpected melodic turns. They should at least go into the prog related category, or maybe crossover prog.
Rod Argent. Argent the band is here, but not Rod as a solo artist. His 1978 album Moving Home definitely qualifies, and Red House (1991) follows in much the same vein. Eclectic prog, definitely. Garfield. Much more obscure, this Canadian outfit, named for the lead singer and songwriter Garfield French. Two albums: Strange Streets (1976, Mercury in the US) and Out There Tonight (1977, Capricorn). They’re both currently available thru Amazon on a single CD from Germany. Eclectic prog or crossover prog. |
Replies:
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 03:13
|
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66462&KW=xtc" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66462&KW=xtc http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55949&KW=xtc" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55949&KW=xtc http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40260&KW=xtc" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40260&KW=xtc http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5647&KW=garfield" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5647&KW=garfield http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=84137&KW=garfield" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=84137&KW=garfield Please note, only one suggestion per thread: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&PID=3942751#3942751" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&PID=3942751#3942751 So, XTC and Garfield both previously suggested. Not sure about Rod Argent, will need to double-check. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 04:40
|
Ah..XTC...that old chesnut. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
|
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 04:50
^ great band and yes, I adore them hugely but they don't belong here. Their admission has been debated to death over the years, so just before anyone posts to the effect: yeah... but if A is here already then so should B - (2 wrongs don't make a right)
 ------------- 
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 05:15
I love XTC but I don't understand their connection to Prog. If anyone would care to explain, I'm listening. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
ExittheLemming wrote:Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 05:34
|
^ clever pop music (with a nod to Beatles, Brian Wilson, Ray Davies, David Byrne, Psychedelia, Townshend etc) very innovative and unusual chord progressions, the odd odd time sig, angular chromatic stuff like Travels in Nihilon, Complicated Game, their deconstructed All Along the Watchtower, erm... and a 'Tron on Big Express .................... (does not Prog make) Perhaps people are clutching at straws? -------------
|
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 05:53
|
Regarding Rod Argent... of his solo albums ''Moving Home'' (1978) is described as fusion/art rock while ''Red House'' (1988) is tagged as pop. He has also released an album of classical covers (''Classically Speaking'') and various collaborations. The most interesting of these might be the jazz-funk album he recorded with saxist/flautist Barbara Thompson ''Ghosts'' (1982), and there's 1987's ''Wild Connections'' with Gary Moore and Phil Collins. Then there are four albums with Robert Howes, new age/synthpop stuff. Certainly an eclectic artist but not really Eclectic Prog imo. He has also worked on albums by Tanita Tikaram, Nanci Griffiths, Joshua Kadison etc. Unfortunately there are very few relevant YouTube samples for us to check, I've posted a few but have ignored the classical stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Argent" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Argent
http://rodargent.com/" rel="nofollow - http://rodargent.com/
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 05:56
All great songs.  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:02
|
^ ^ As a big Argent fan, I was very disappointed by Moving Home. It sounds like a very unsatisfying compromise between jazz inflected soul, rock and (gulp) latin rhythms. I did however enjoy his contribution to the Variations album and he did record a nifty version of one of Satie's piano Gymnopedies -------------
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:15
|
^Conversely, I enjoy Moving Home. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 06:21
|
^ now there's a turnip for the books
-------------
|
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 10:39
And why would we want a big fat cat in PA?
|
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 14:52
|
XTC started off as a new wave band. I would argue that albums such as Apple were avant grade, which used to qualify, but I can see the argument against. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 20:19
Unless there's some encrypted wording in your band submissions policy, I see nothing about one suggestion per thread. That's after reading it carefully beforehand and rereading it more carefully afterwards. Thanks for the links to the old threads, BTW. |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 18 2013 at 20:40
I wholeheartedly agree with your points, and maybe it's just me, but your points combined with mine seem to present a convincing argument for putting XTC in PA. And how would that be clutching at straws? |
Posted By: seventhsojourn
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 03:19
It doesn't specifically say one suggestion per thread but I think it's implied: ''You have two options for submitting a band/artist for inclusion... collect sound samples and other helpful information... as well as your explanation of why this band/artist should be added to ProgArchives.'' You can probably see how confusing things might get with people simultaneously discussing more than one artist.
Regarding the above, it's usual to support your suggestion by including sound samples (e.g. YouTube, bandcamp, soundcloud), helpful information (links to the artists official site, wiki, etc.), and a bio or other background info. You may well have already provided this info via the band submissions gmail address (I don't receive that info myself) but it's more common for members to simply post their suggestions in this part of the forum. it may take us a few days to get around to your suggestion but it will be addressed.
Also, when you search for old threads, be sure to change the ''find posts'' search filter to include ''any date'' and ''older posts'' and the ''display results as'' filter to ''topics''... you should be able to find those old threads now.
Oh, and I should have said earlier... welcome to PA and thanks for your contributions!
 |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 03:34
I think you misunderstand me. I DON'T think XTC should be in PA and those traits I listed above can be found in much Prog but don't of themselves qualify anyone as Prog. Does that make sense? -------------
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 19 2013 at 04:31
|
There may be some..tenuous link between XTC and, maybe Prog Related? But a "glaring omission" it ain't.
Having said that, I'm not against thier inclusion. They have had many supporters including our former Admin, Maani. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 21 2013 at 23:52
I get where you're coming from, but I think your meaning could be made clearer there. Just sayin'.
Thanks, I look forward to contributing more. |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 00:08
Honestly, I can't say that it does, but then I'm not running this site. It all goes back to the neverending debate over what qualifies as prog and what doesn't, and in the end it doesn't really matter. I've never cared much for pigeonholing and labeling and categorizing anyway. Everyone should just listen to what he or she considers good music, and I think just about everyone registered at PA already does that. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 02:39
------------- What? |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 18:32
You're right, it isn't. But you do have a General Music Discussion forum which gets a lot of traffic. This is what I meant when I said that everyone registered at PA listens to what he or she considers good music, otherwise would that forum be as active as it is? I'm starting to detect a little condescension here. I hope I'm wrong. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 22 2013 at 18:57
What people listen to and what they discuss in the General Music Discussions is not the same as suggesting those artists for inclusion in the PA or discussing them in a Suggest Artist thread.
I hope you are too, I gear my answers to where they are posted. ------------- What? |
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:00
|
Funny - XTC was the first non-prog band I looked for when I was trying to find the edge of the Prog boundaries as drawn by ProgArchives. They weren't here, but it was evident that it wasn't because they weren't considered, based on the depth and width and breadth of the map. But it didn't surprise me. XTC showed up with punk, and were instrumental in dismantling Prog right along with the Sex Pistols. I noticed that PIL, Magazine and Shriekback are missing also, which suggests to me that it's not just the style of music that designates Prog, it's also the effect that the artist had on Prog culture. Never mind that XTC was influenced by BeBop Deluxe, The Residents and Beefheart, they were here to slay the dinosaurs. So from that angle I can see why they could be considered Anti-Prog. But by killing prog they rescued it. It couldn't go on like it was. Not with Love Beach. Prog had jumped the shark. XTC was like a stealth bomber. Or maybe a Trojan horse. They looked like punk, sounded like punk, smelled like punk, and kicked Greg Lake's arse. But if you were paying attention, you might have noticed that songs like X-Wires, from their debut album, sounded more like Beefheart than The Sex Pistols. And then, when we least expected it, after they wiped out Tull, ELP, Yes and Genesis, they served up a full-on capital P Progressive Rock double album: English Settlement. Clever little pricks. So personally, I can see how they shouldn't be included, and at the same time see how they should be considered the most important Prog band of the '80's. I don't know what I would have done without them. ------------- http://limpidgreen.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://limpidgreen.bandcamp.com/ 
|
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:15
|
If you are going to suggest XTC, then might as well throw in Ultravox, John Foxx, Magazine and Depeche Mode! All are amazing bands with superb music but its just not progressive rock.! Argent , the band did skirt the prog rim (Nexus, Circus albums) but Rod is more of a figure, rock icon kind of guy.  Now Garfield was a super band from Canada with a majestically gorgeous album Out there Tonight, featuring 5-6 tracks that would bowl over any progfan ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 11:19
|
Just because a band is progressive doesn't mean it needs to be here. By that comparison, we should have Wire and Pere Ubu in here as well. Progressive? Yes indeedy! Prog rock? No way! ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 12:19
Agreed (except for Depeche Mode)! You gotta stop somewhere, and as much as I love a lot of the usual suspects that get mentioned often (including Pere Ubu) they just don't seem to belong in ProgArchives. |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 16:05
Excuse me? Did you honestly believe I had the two confused? Can you show me where I give that impression? My point was that though there are different forums for different subjects, this is all one site and we're all here out of a love of good music.
Can you point out where you’re not being condescending in either of your answers? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 16:26
------------- What? |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 17:53
No, not at all. Just trying to find common ground. |
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 18:03
Hey, Ultravox! That's the ticket! Actually, at one point I was going to suggest them, since some of the elements of prog are there, though it's clear now that it would meet with plenty of opposition. I bought that Garfield 2-fer CD last year, and it was my first listen of "Strange Streets"; I was already familiar with "OTT." I know the vocals probably turned off a few people, but musically I agree it's definitely in the realm. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 18:20
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=73146&PID=3942751#3942751" rel="nofollow - Band Submission Policy ------------- What? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 18:25
Rejected by Crossover soon after. ------------- What? |
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: April 23 2013 at 20:26
|
Wow - that was interesting to look back at. Visage! Fond, poofy memories. I know we're going way off topic now, but All those bands that went down the Bowie/Kraftwerk/Roxy path like Magazine, Ultravox and Gary Numan - I absolutely love them as much as any Prog. But I started listening to them around 1980 precisely because they were NOT Prog. Add to that Polyrock, and some real obscurities like The Units, Experiments With Ice and Ceramic Hello. Then there's OMD. I don't care how hard you try, despite the fact that OMD did some incredibly unique and experimental music they will never be Prog (I just checked to make sure I wouldn't have to eat my words). Of course OMD is not XTC, so let's get back on topic. All this bickering has distracted everyone from my erudite dissertation on XTC. Now go back there and read it for cryin out loud! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 06:50
XTC killed prog? I thought the Clash had already done that. Slightly ironic then that Dave Gregory ended up playing in 2 prog bands and Andy Partridge has collaborated with Peter Blegvad.
And is English Settlement really a prog album?
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 07:07
NO ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 07:40
... and recently with http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=38692" rel="nofollow - Mike Keneally . Not really, I think. But it is a very clever album, a fine example of a New Wave band that has lifted up its music to a higher level. Note: another New Wave band, Talking Heads, is included in Prog Related. ------------- 
|
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:07
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 10:30
Well I never thought it was before and I'm not going to start to now. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: stegor
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 11:51
|
Well, if English Settlement is XTC's proggiest album but still isn't Prog then XTC isn't Prog! Pretty simple. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 12:10
|
Two pages in and no one's attempted the Dukes' manoeuvrer. That's a first. ------------- What? |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 12:19
|
I thought you could only use 'Dukes Manoeuvre' after landing on 'Swiss Cottage'? ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 15:25
There is no doubt that the XTC were Prog band hidden behind the Punk / New Wave outfit. Probably so they had to survive in the business in the middle of the Punk histeria; then they became stars and that was it.
|
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: April 24 2013 at 15:59
|
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 25 2013 at 07:01
|
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 25 2013 at 08:39
|
^Punk? Maybe. Punks like their first Science Friction EP and it certainly has that homemade garage band vibe. Fits right into the Punk ethos. The debut album expanded on that. Less punky for sure but still a series of short sharp (clever) songs. They kind of grew from there. Flowered. So more New wave than actual Punk. But never prog. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
|
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 25 2013 at 09:14
Couldn't have put it better myself.
|
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 25 2013 at 09:15
|
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 25 2013 at 12:46
|
There is little doubt that some of the more talented musicians who came to prominence in the 80s would have formed Prog bands if they had been around in the 70s - that's not quite the same as claiming that those musicians were Prog musicians in hiding. Partridge, Moulding, Chambers and Andrews were in a band from 1973 - they were never Prog during that time though may have listened to it (Colin Moulding has said he listened to Tull in the 70s) - and of course Glam Rock and Psychedelic Pop figured as a strong influences on them. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:19
I don't care about Partridge, Moulding, Chambers and Andrews. Let's imagine that there was nothing recorded by King Crimson before Discipline the album; at the time of the appearance of the album in stores, KC would be valid for New Wave flawless. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:22
Well, duh! ------------- What? |
Posted By: Svetonio
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:53
|
Posted By: AreYouHuman
Date Posted: May 01 2013 at 18:54
Well, so they are. And yet...and yet... 
|