A Trick of the Tail - A Concept Album?
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Recommendations/Featured albums
Forum Description: Make or seek recommendations and discuss specific prog albums
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=93194
Printed Date: July 18 2025 at 21:51
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Topic: A Trick of the Tail - A Concept Album?
Posted By: Tubes
Subject: A Trick of the Tail - A Concept Album?
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 00:11
| I've read, in a review on this website, that Genesis' A Trick of the Tail is in fact a concept album. This makes sense in that other Genesis albums that feature the book-end recapitulation of opening musical themes, like Selling England by the Pound (Dancing with the Moonlit Knight - Aisle of Plenty), Duke (Behind the Lines - Duke's End), and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway - Carpet Crawlers - The Light Dies Down on Broadway), are all concept albums. So why not Trick? Los Endos features themes from Dance on a Volcano, and Squonk. I read that the album was a musical representation of William Golding's The Inheritors. Could someone confirm or deny this? |
Replies:
Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 00:15
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No no no!. I mean the lyrical content does address the album cover but it is far from a concept album! ------------- “War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
Posted By: Tubes
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 00:26
| Well, if you think about it, the album does look at humanity from the perspective of an outsider - like The Inheritors. Robbery, Assault, and Battery is about the evident inexorable nature of crime; Ripples is about our vanity, more specifically that of women; A Trick of the Tail is about ambition for exploration, and consequent homesickness; Mad Man Moon is about aspirations in general and frustration with the world as it is (I also pick up some racial/religious connotations too, ie. the protagonist in Mad Man Moon is an Arab, and he sees Israelis as the 'shepherds of lies'.); Dance on a Volcano seems to be about man's ritualistic mannerisms, etc. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 01:23
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No...
...next! ------------- What? |
Posted By: Tubes
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 02:13
| You guys aren't much open to any kind of different thought, are ya'? |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 02:26
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I'm not open to any wrong thinking. Are you? ------------- What? |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 03:27
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There may be some common themes(I would need them explained to me, though) but I don't see an actual concept.
I've not read Goldings book so can't comment on that. Tubes, can you explain why you think Dance on a Volcano is about mans 'ritualistic mannerisms'? I'm not even sure I know what you mean. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 03:39
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The title track is indeed based on "The Inheritors": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Trick_of_the_Tail_%28song%29" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Trick_of_the_Tail_%28song%29 I can’t see how the rest of the songs fit in, though, but I haven’t read the book. Your case would be stronger if you could be more specific. ------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: Tubes
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 03:49
| Dancing is, for most men, just a pre-mating ritual... foreplay, if you will. However many cultures have traditional dances, but for what? No discernible purpose - like a ritual. Dancing on a volcano seems to be about a human sacrifice to me. And that's where dancing, a ritual, is a metaphor for other kinds of organized mass behavior - like religion, which is heavily corrupted these days with rituals, or war which can be seen as a 'sacrifice'... possibly the connections between both. Maybe I'm not providing the best expression of my interpretation that I could be... |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 04:03
I never thought `Trick' was an actual concept album, but rather a collection of fairy tales or fantasy stories! The beautiful LP sleeve and even the remastered CD booklet present the words like an old book too 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 04:31
.. no mention of the other songs on the album - clearly only one song is based on the book. Squonk is based upon the North American legend of the Squonk and has no connection with "The Inheritors" whatsoever. Ergo - not a concept album.  ------------- What? |
Tony Banks: "I got the idea for the lyric after reading William Golding's The Inheritors. It's about a race who were on earth before man and it's the story of the last survivor of this race. The very last chapter deals with our reaction to him whereas the rest of the story is his reaction to us." The song's connection to the book is more thematic than literal. It isn't about cavemen; as Banks says, "It's about an alien with horns and a tail who appears in a modern city and how people react to him."Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:13
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Since when is Selling England and Duke concept albums anyway? ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: timbo
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:23
At face value, possibly. However, I would have said the track is much more about the reaction of people to the creature, and the tendency of people to reject anything that is different - race, culture, etc without taking the time to try and understand. A theme that is revisited on Duke's Travels: Nobody must know my name
For nobody would understand, And you kill what you fear, And you fear what you don't understand |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:32
I always interpreted that song to be about the struggle to get to the top of whatever you happen to be climbing; a career ladder, or some kind of goal of personal fulfillment and development, and the hazards and pitfalls of not 'doing it right' The volcano being a very basic metaphor for something seeming out of reach, and if you you're ascending it, potentially very hazardous. Not everyone makes it to the top "Your friends didn't make it through" "You're half way up and you're half way down, and the pack on your back keeps turning you around. Throw it away you don't need it up there, and remember you don't look back whatever you do" - A basic word of warning about looking back and being derailed from your goals by your doubts; your burden the 'pack on your back' Let it go and focus on your ascent. But then there are seemingly literal lines like 'the molten rock spills out over the land' and 'The lava's the lover that licks your boots away' I guess you could interpret it in any number of ways. It may well have been written so that nerdy prog fans could discuss these things ad nauseum.. 
I wouldn't say ATOTT is a concept album at all. Like many great prog works there are reoccuring musical themes here and there, and the album does have a very special and consistent feel throughout, but then many well written produced and performed albums do. You could argue that Wind & Wuthering is also at least a partial concept album if we apply the same logic. A number of songs are about turmoil and conflict from different perspectives. 'Eleventh Earl of Mar' from a historical perspective. 'One for the Vine' from a fantasy or mythological setting. 'All in a mouses night' classic cat and mouse conflict, but one where the roles are reversed and the underdog overpowers the stronger protagonist. 'Blood on the rooftops' a depressing musing on how f***ed up the world is through the eyes of the normal Joe watching it unfold on TV, hypnotised and desensitised by dumbed down TV shows and relentless horrible news reportage. 'Afterglow' a ballad about a man who's lost everything in the aftermath of some disaster, maybe a nuclear war ("like the dust that settles all around me") Who knows? EDIT: My understanding is that a conceot album tells a story of somekind. It's not just a collection of songs ambiguously and loosely exploring some similar themes. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:55
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Posted By: refugee
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 05:56
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^I agree with you on "Dance …" I’ve always thought it was about careering.
------------- He say nothing is quite what it seems; I say nothing is nothing (Peter Hammill) |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 06:16
"It may well have been written so that nerdy prog fans could discuss these things ad nauseum.. "
 Interesting facts about ATOTT (the song) that I've just read on Wikipedia -
"The majority of the song was written in 1972 and was originally intended for the Foxtrot album. The song's rhythm, according to Banks, is heavily influenced by The Beatles' " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_Better" rel="nofollow - Getting Better "."
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 07:33
I think it would have sat quite well on a Gabriel fronted album. It's my least favourite song on ATOTT, but I think Gabriels Genesis would have presented it a little differently. I like to think so, anyway. Anyway, with regard to the any 'concept' on ATOTT I don't see where Entangled and Squonk would fit in. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 07:38
Yeah, it's probably my favourite Genesis (Hypnosis?) album cover. It's one of those album covers that goes with the music perfectly. I love that album so much. The opening of Dance on a Volcano still blows me away today and gives me goosebumps as it did almost 30 years ago when I first heard it ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 07:51
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If for one thing I would have liked to be an English language native it's for being able to better interpret lyrics. My English is decent enough to understand but I often fail in being able to interpret all the nuances. Plus when it's not your native language you can't help putting the focus more on the music than on the lyrics. But OK, I guess I can't complain too much, at least I'm able to understand English, Italian, quite some French and Dutch (although little Prog is sung in Dutch) and of course my natives Catalan and Spanish.
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 07:58
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I don't think anyone in Genesis qualifies as being a deep and meaningful lyricist - like bad schoolboy poetry, in most prog lyrics what you see is what you get. There may have been a metaphorical intention in the idea of the songs, but you don't need to look too deep into the lyrics themselves. ------------- What? |
Posted By: timbo
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 09:46
For much of Genesis lyrics, especially SEBTP, you need to have lived in England in the early seventies to understand all the references - it's not just a language thing, it's a cultural thing. For example: Aisle of Plenty - unless you know that Fine Fare, Safeway, Tesco, Co-operative were all English supermarket chains at the time, it won't make much sense. "Knights of the Green Shield Stamp and shout" - Green shield stamps were a kind of loyalty points given out in the sixties/seventies Much of Genesis is full of these kinds of English cultural references, that probably even American audiences didn't pick up on. It's all very British.
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Posted By: Tubes
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 09:50
| And you would totally know all about the merits of poetry, wouldn't you, Dean? |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 09:54
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I never saw this as a concept album. The only thing that seems in anyway conceptual about it is the fact that Los Endos repeats a lot of themes from earlier in the album. But there is definitely no linking thread between the lyrics of the album. Not sure how anyone could see it as a concept album. And...Selling England a concept album? That's news to me.
 ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:15
I am. I look at the album cover and that can tell you a lot. Their are characters that represent each song and the nature of their subject matter. I do, however, like your interpretation that the album as whole represents humanity. I would agree with that. The songs are not directly connected to each other, but on a humanistic theme level they are. It's a tough call and their is a clear theme, but the songs don't necessarily match up to tell a grand unified story. I would have to say 'no' mr. Tubes. Great forum though. Makes me think. :) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:16
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:23
Ah DUKE is definately a conceptual piece. It's about Love and Loss. Dealing with emotional break ups etc. very clear story telling. ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:25
Me too. The album cover clearly sets it up that way. :) I get that too and know where you are coming from ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:45
No it isn't definitely a conceptual piece. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:48
Correcting my spelling...I can understand that Mr. Errors and omissions team, but to get to the heart of the matter why do you feel this is so? Interested to hear your opinion. ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:55
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Duke is a semi concept album. Trick would be a bit of a stretch.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:57
------------- What? |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:05
Yes on Duke. It has a long conceptual piece composed of 6 songs on the album. The first three, Turn It On and the last two. The rest of the songs may actually fit the themes of loneliness and isolation (Heathaze, Alone Tonight, Please Don't Ask) but they're not really part of the conceptual piece. It's just kind of a darker feeling album, but a concept album tells one complete story as a whole and Duke does not. Now Duke could easily be called a themed album, and I suppose you might be able to call Trick one, but neither are concept albums. I would not in anyway consider Selling England even a themed album though, unless I'm missing something completely, and I do know what green shield stamps were, Tesco, Safeway and most of the references in Epping Forest. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:08
Dude, it's got to be your avatar. Or maybe the label site admin under it. Something inspires some people (most of them noobs) to immediately go on the attack when talking to you. ------------- I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you? |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:15
While I was away I heard about this poll ' free hand is a 1 star album' and apparently there was some nifty drama. I'm checking it out.... ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:18
Oh dear Doctor. I new you could read between the lines or....behind the lines if you will. Lol. Duke is definitely a conceptual piece. ;) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:26
I don't see any planned theme or concept in Selling England either.
The puns aren't that hard (and discussed so often that all Genesis fans should know them). AFAIK the lyrics were all written in quick succession after most of the music had been recorded and the background of each of them is well documented in various places (including here if we could be bothered to search for them). For example it's common knowledge that The Battle of Epping Forest is based upon a newpaper report of a London "mob" turf war. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 13:07
That's it, there's a difference between a themed album and a concept album. Is Pink Floyd Animals a concept album?
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 13:18
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Lol. It gets confusing sometimes when we think 'theme' and 'concept' to be connected together in an album. Make no mistake here, these terms are not the same. The way Conceptual albums differ from a thematic album, in my opinion, is that the songs (tracks) clearly follow one another interms of lyrical content. Conceptual tells a story where theme album doesn't directly. Aghhhh it's confusing but I think there is a difference between the 2.
Trick of the tail would be a theme album for sure. ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 14:26
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Interesting reading......from all vantage points. If one's mind is totally open and clear of pre-thought, maybe I can see trying to create a concept album out of Trick, but I agree its a stretch. If anything the OP got everyone thinking...nice -------------   
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Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 16:13
There is a MAJOR difference, absolutely agree. Many albums seemingly have recurring themes on them. For example, Metallica's Master of Puppets talks extensively about being under the control of others, whether it be government, religion, institutions, drugs, etc. There's a theme. Rush's Roll the Bones talks about risks and gambles we take in life. There's a theme. The list goes on and on. Then there's the concept, which takes a theme, and directly connects that theme into the music. Concept albums are absolutely meant to be listened to as a whole, grand piece. The music connects, and the theme is not only existent, but it's often obvious and recurring. It creates a story or ideology that can be followed song through song, and will have a pretty clear introduction and conclusion as well. If you have to think whether an album is conceptual or not, I would guess that it probably is not, because of the fact that it isn't evident. BUT, it's still fun to discuss so anyway. If you don't want to discuss such a topic, why post here? |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 17:56
Selling England is certainly an album which explores the theme of Britishness (probably Englishness to be exact). I remember an interview in Melody Maker when The Lamb was released where Gabriel explained that this was their "American" album after SEBTP which was their "British" album.
Whether that makes it a "concept" album is debatable, but I think it does.
Trick of the Tail is not a concept (or even a themed) album by any stretch of the imagination. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 19:53
 You said it well. I'm in full agreement with ya. Thanks man. ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 21:24
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On a side note, I'm on my fourth copy of the album. Go for the version with the surround sound and bonus concert video DVD if you can. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: April 26 2013 at 21:33
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Spinning the surround sound version now. ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 05:32
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Just rubbing our noses in it, eh Starti?!
I'd love that version myself! If I buy an upgraded or new version of a good album, I always palm the previous copy off onto someone who might really dig it! I would love to give someone the gift of `A Trick of the Tail'! 
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 07:32
I'm on my third copy, and yes that version is excellent. I love that concert footage 
I just wish that during Cinema Show they'd shown the band playing rather than that silly sepia film. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 09:51
One of the greatest gifts you can give. I bought the new 5.1 remastered version by Nick Davis for myself in 2007. Had to treat myself. I tell ya 'Squonk' in full 5.1 surround sounds so incredible. Los Endos will give you goose bumps too. :)  ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 09:54
THE TRICK not as a theme? Bold claim. Your thoughts on why that would be? ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 10:56
You have the greatest heart on PA! That would be such a gift and go treat yourself to an upgraded copy. The double disc 5.1 cd/DVD is an excellent version. Enjoy it since its a non themed album? Huh? Who said that? Lol ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: April 27 2013 at 11:10
Right you are!!! ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Zenbadger
Date Posted: May 19 2013 at 15:49
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Thanks for the advice
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Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 19:18
THIS!!
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 21:34
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^ I always felt that Aussie boy was on to something. He's a little wizard with his thoughts. :) ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 21:42
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Heh, thanks guys lol!
Don't know how much of a wizard I am, Nick, but if I was, I'm sure I'd align myself and my magic powers with one of the good house chapters, not Slitherin...probably, I don't know, Hufflew**k or something!
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 21:51
Omg is this code for awesome or what!!!? Thoughts are working wonderfully with you today. Love it. ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 21:52
Oh and bring the ripples till I get senile!! Lol ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 21:57
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Pretty sure I just stole that Hufflew**k bit from Craig Ferguson, at least I hope that's where it came from rather than the dark recesses of my own tortured mind.....
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 21 2013 at 21:59
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Bring on the psychotic waltz!! Hee Hee....Tortured mind ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: SquonkHunter
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 15:03
"Green Crosses" and "Blue Crosses" were German designations for WWI chemical weapons, i.e. gas. It would fit in with the nature of a volcano releasing poisonous gasses. Just a guess. I don't know of any other specific uses of these terms. ------------- "You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..." |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 17:08
  ------------- What? |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: May 26 2013 at 23:52
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^ Holy crap Dean, where do you find this stuff? It's like you've been on this planet for 200 years.
------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: humor4u1959
Date Posted: May 27 2013 at 00:12
| Trick of the Tail a concept album? No. I have the DVD where they all talk about it. It's just a collection of wonderful songs. It's my favorite by Genesis. They lost nothing when Gabriel left. And, he went on to make music that I also like. |