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Conventions Of Prog Rock?

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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=970
Printed Date: August 15 2025 at 20:12
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Topic: Conventions Of Prog Rock?
Posted By: Scotto'connor
Subject: Conventions Of Prog Rock?
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 06:33

What are the conventions that make up the sub music genre of progressive rock? Try and come up with a list of conventions. Here are my ideas.

1. Longer songs (average of 5 to 12mins long).

2. Instrumental solo's and instrumental pieces in songs.

3. Use of other instruments from other genres (classical music and jazz).

4. Sophisticated Lyrics, considering socialist topics

5. Standard Rock Instruments- (Guitar, Drums, Keyboards)- always used.

6. Album based rock, (generally not chart music).

 

 




Replies:
Posted By: Focussed
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 08:23

Experimental

Exciting (For us, but excrutiatingly boring and pretentious for many..But they dont understand)

Good musicianship (with the exception of Hawkwind) but I still like them..

Mysterious moods and atmospheres

Key changes and time signature changes in, yes you said it, long songs.

Enigmatic songtitles/Album titles/covers etc

Eccentric band members/Posh public school educated band members

The best music there is, quite simply.

 



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'You cant have two killers living on the same patch!'


Posted By: Aquarius
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 10:13

All of the above plus

Not radio friendly.

lots of obscure bands

Ugly musicians

Concerts for 100 to 500 people.

timeless classic albums

often technically skilled musicians

 a number of concept albums

Cover art in a certain style



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Download 6 min. TRAILER (10 excerpts) of our upcoming concept album at http://www.silentagreement.nl - http://www.silentagreement.nl


Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 11:51
Originally posted by Focussed Focussed wrote:

The best music there is, quite simply.

I'm not sure... but it IS sure that it's the best music I've heard yet....



Posted By: maani
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 13:57

I will limit myself to musical aspects (i.e., not addressing art, album covers, etc.).  Here are a dozen.  I'm sure that I will come up with more:

1.  Non-reliance on standard verse-chorus-verse form of most popular music.

2.  Less "linear," more "classical" orientation: i.e., more like a "score" - with a greater sense of counterpoint and "independent" lines - than a simple "vertical" building of guitar, bass, drums, keyboard.

3.  More extended, often "thematic" writing, leading to lengthier compositions to make room for "theme" statement, exposition (and, in some cases, "variation") and restatement.  This "thematic" writing (mostly in conjunction with lyrics (see below)) often leads to the creation of an album-wide "concept."

4.  Greater use of keyboards both for melodic, rhythmic and other structural purposes, as well as for "texture" and "atmopshere."

5.  Use of non-standard instrumentation, particularly including non-standard percussives, strings, and woodwinds.

6.  (Generally) higher-level musicianship, required in order to execute the more complex form.

7.  Lyrics tending to be more esoteric, and often based on fantasy, sci-fi, or literary references.  Greater use of lyrics in creating album-wide "concept."

8.  Greater use of non-standard time signatures and time shifting, as well as internal polyrhythms.

9.  Greater, freer use of dynamics to separate "sections" in longer compositions.

10.  Use of the studio as a conscious element in the creation of the music, especially vis-a-vis sounds effects, textures, atmospheres.

11.  Use of "external" sound effects, spoken word, etc. as elements of composition.

12.  Generally greater sense of experimentation and "free-form" composition, sometimes including elements of classical, jazz, celtic and other "world music" forms.



Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 15:45
Music that even after 100 listens there is something there that you hadn't noticed before.


Posted By: DoomHammer
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 16:31

1- long -not boring- songs in general  (not essentially)

2- music that is listened with mind as much as heart, always makes me thinking about many stuff

3- very symbolic lyrics with very deep meanings changing everytime you listen to the songs

4- music that is good enough to survive from 40 years till now and never be boring

5- "speaking solos" many solos just gives you many meanings without anyone saying a word, and instrumentals that is better speaking than million words

6- musicians that are respectable, talented and highly creative

7- lots of keyboards

8- many changing rythms throughout one song, not just one rythm as in other kinds of music

9- changing key signatures a lot even in one solo, and very very dificult timing.

10- music that wants to deliver meaning and wants to say something not just "love, sex, drugs, death" as other many many many kinds of music

11- very very very melodic even while using strange instruments - i must say that there are many bands that are not that melodic most of the time as KC but i still love them, my favorites though are melodic (camel - ELP - VDGG - pink floyd - opeth)

12- even if i listen to slow, rock and roll, jazz, new age, blues, some old country, death - doom - neoclassical and all kinds of good metal. Prog is my favorite music that i think is the best

12- if i kept writing about prog i will need 20 pages



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when i sell my life story, maybe i should write it first and do the living later 'cause life is so much cleaner on the page


Posted By: benny bouncer
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 16:33
Prog is music that makes every hair on the back of your neck stand on end


Posted By: arqwave
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 19:58

Prog has something that only Fusion has... musicianship

also...

a great way to get involved with history, emotions, feelings, colors and textures, that's why most of the songs are to long , a legend waiting to be told, the extreme use of ALL the instruments, even, incorporating other kind of instruments, and weird instruments (as the KOTO, CLAVICORD, FLUTES, HARPS etc) the use of rational and magnificent vocals and the perfect balance in between rock, jazz, classical and pop.

peace



Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 20:06
Simply, ambitious music.


Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 20:07
Originally posted by Joren Joren wrote:

Originally posted by Focussed Focussed wrote:

The best music there is, quite simply.

I'm not sure... but it IS sure that it's the best music I've heard yet....

I concurr Joren. When are you going to show us your paper.


Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 20:08
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Music that even after 100 listens there is something there that you hadn't noticed before.
Agreed.


Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 10 2004 at 20:13
My wife is a classically trained musician with a Master`s degree and she likes many progressive rock bands that I listen to. I invite you to read her review of Gentle Giant`s Octopus under my section in the collaborators. She is currently in Switzerland but I will get her to write some more when she returns.Progressive rock just goes a little further and incorporates so many styles.


Posted By: Gonghobbit
Date Posted: June 11 2004 at 18:47
Ha ha, whhen i saw the thread title i thought people were tossing about the idea of progressive rock conventions...which would actually be very cool...

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'This is a local shop, there's nothing for you here'


Posted By: Gonghobbit
Date Posted: June 11 2004 at 18:49
I'll vote for top notch musicanship...and an ability to alleniate the average person regarding prog rock conventions, though...

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'This is a local shop, there's nothing for you here'


Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: June 11 2004 at 18:52
Prog music : music that stands the test of time.

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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)


Posted By: Gonghobbit
Date Posted: June 11 2004 at 19:17
And music that tests time itself...

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'This is a local shop, there's nothing for you here'


Posted By: Vibrationbaby
Date Posted: June 11 2004 at 20:01
Originally posted by Gonghobbit Gonghobbit wrote:

And music that tests time itself...
Agreed.


Posted By: Hibou
Date Posted: June 11 2004 at 20:31

We progsters tend to take our music (and sometimes ourselves) very seriously, and I'll be the first to admit I do too. But I couldn't help laughing when I saw the site below. Not exactly a definition of prog rock but sure worth a chuckle or two... 

http://www.btinternet.com/~archimedes/progrock.html - http://www.btinternet.com/~archimedes/progrock.html  

      



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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!


Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: June 11 2004 at 23:43

Could give 100 characteristics or conventions but I only need to use two words:

TRASCENDENCE VOCATION

Classic and Prog' music are composed to last for ever if posible, other genres only search for instant success even if the song or album is forgoten after 6 months.

Iván



Posted By: Hibou
Date Posted: June 12 2004 at 01:17

Ok, you want me to be serious, so (hmm-hmm) here goes  :

The word ‘Progressive’ in Progresive Rock denotes a form of music that goes beyond the 3-minute ‘hit’ song and definitely features a more elaborate structure than the mind-numbing verse-chorus-verse.

‘Rock’: a constant - prog is always Rock based, no matter what genre it borrows from.

Length: although long epics are not absolutely mandatory (think of how many Camel’s early albums would not fit the bill), a lot of prog albums contain long tracks, thus allowing musicians to build something of substance.

Solos: these are a staple of many prog bands because it helps bring into highlight the creativity and technical abilities of individual band members. Again, however, I don’t think they are absolutely mandatory as many progsters can already appreciate these qualities without the ‘show’.

Style: prog features about the widest gamut of sub-genres and off-shoots in music today. Be it as cacophonic as Magma or smooth as a baby’s bottom like the early Moody Blues, prog is not limited to any particular style. Rather, it is the way these different styles are incorporated into a ‘Rock’ format that makes the music truly prog.

Lyrics: the lyrics follow the same pattern as the music, i.e. they are more ambitious and tend to reflect the mood induced by the music. They are often esotheric and fantasy-coloured due to the often ethereal, spacey nature of the music itself.

Shelf-life: one characteristic prog shares with the classics such as jazz, blues or Western classical music is its long shelf-life. Like an epic novel you can read 3 times over, the best prog can be listened to over a lifespan and still captivate the listener.

Voilà! I don’t think I’ve said anything new but that’s my personal definition of Prog.

P.S. I hope I haven’t offended anyone with my warped sense of humour  earlier on. I had a good laugh at the ‘prog reviewer’s guide’ and just wanted to share it with you



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[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b311/Progueuse/Album.jpg">
Gene Police: You!! Out of the pool!



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