It is ok to dislike a band/album/genre, but once you start inventing rules about what you like or don't (often followed by rationalizations), then you stop listening music for what it is and you limit yourself. There's a difference in saying "I don't like fade-outs, keyboards or whatever in this album/band/genre" and saying "I don't like fade-outs, keyboards or whatever. Period."
Pet prog peeve: awful singing. If you can't find a good vocalist then maybe your band should be instrumental.
On a serious note. I TOTALLY agree. Mediocre singers backed by outstanding musicians makes me want to bark at the moon like a loon. It's even worse when one of the musicans think they can pull it off. Having a thick skin i can appreicate some bands but not love them. But knowing they could be great instead of ok is frustrating.
So, I think we are on the same page here, but want to be sure. By "mediocre" you do not mean unconventional, correct? No one would mistake Peter Hammill or Demetrio Stratos for American Idol material, but I think they are great unconventional singers.
He neither drank, smoked, nor rode a bicycle. Living frugally, saving his money, he died early, surrounded by greedy relatives. It was a great lesson to me -- John Barrymore
When prog is just prog, for the sake of it, and not really inventive, or challenging, nor even adventurous.
Then it is not prog....it's Beatles music.
What bothers you in Prog Music? ( Pet Peeves)
Captcha.........
Really canīt understand why you seem to have so much against Beatles? I can someway understand it with the people born in eighties, but youīre from sixties. Do you really think Rush would have been same without Beatles?
Of course you donīt have to like Beatles, but their music not inventive, adventurous or challenging? Then Christ sake what kind of Revolver or Sgt. Pepper music is?
Some people complain about prog for the sake of prog, but I have a beef
with pop for the sake of pop in prog music. Like when a band tries to
write a really catchy sounding chorus in a song that really doesn't need
one, especially when the lyrics aren't very poppy.
I think the
first time I noticed this was Dream Theater's Solitary Shell (from 7
Degrees of Inner Turbulence)... in the live version from Score, James
LaBrie shouts "Sing it!" during the chorus. Uh, no James... I can't
understand a word you're singing. Now, if your chorus is "Woah, halfway
there, woah-oh, livin' on a prayer!", I can keep up. If your chorus is:
He's a Monday morning lunatic Disturbed from time to time Lost within himself in his solitary shell A temporary catatonic madman on occasion When will he break out of his solitary shell
Then just no.
And
one big big offender is Big Big Train; take Keeper Of Abbeys - catchy
song; almost sounds like I'm listening to Great Big Sea. The lyrics to
the chorus?
Keeper of abbeys His name was carved in the grey stone It was the angel of the north
That's
not very chorusy at all... it barely looks like lyrics. Fortunately, the song goes into a lovely jam
with violin and electric sitar solos, so it's not completely a waste.
Yup, and DT use these pop like choruses in lots of songs.
Some people complain about prog for the sake of prog, but I have a beef
with pop for the sake of pop in prog music. Like when a band tries to
write a really catchy sounding chorus in a song that really doesn't need
one, especially when the lyrics aren't very poppy.
I think the
first time I noticed this was Dream Theater's Solitary Shell (from 7
Degrees of Inner Turbulence)... in the live version from Score, James
LaBrie shouts "Sing it!" during the chorus. Uh, no James... I can't
understand a word you're singing. Now, if your chorus is "Woah, halfway
there, woah-oh, livin' on a prayer!", I can keep up. If your chorus is:
He's a Monday morning lunatic Disturbed from time to time Lost within himself in his solitary shell A temporary catatonic madman on occasion When will he break out of his solitary shell
Then just no.
And
one big big offender is Big Big Train; take Keeper Of Abbeys - catchy
song; almost sounds like I'm listening to Great Big Sea. The lyrics to
the chorus?
Keeper of abbeys His name was carved in the grey stone It was the angel of the north
That's
not very chorusy at all... it barely looks like lyrics. Fortunately, the song goes into a lovely jam
with violin and electric sitar solos, so it's not completely a waste.
Yup, and DT use these pop like choruses in lots of songs.
it's called Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.
I don't see what the problem is. So catchy-ness does not belong in prog? At all?
The problem I have with DT and especially in their Rudess era is soloing just for the sake of soloing and it happens quite a bit, a show off like attitude, the music just does not "breathe".
Some people complain about prog for the sake of prog, but I have a beef
with pop for the sake of pop in prog music. Like when a band tries to
write a really catchy sounding chorus in a song that really doesn't need
one, especially when the lyrics aren't very poppy.
I think the
first time I noticed this was Dream Theater's Solitary Shell (from 7
Degrees of Inner Turbulence)... in the live version from Score, James
LaBrie shouts "Sing it!" during the chorus. Uh, no James... I can't
understand a word you're singing. Now, if your chorus is "Woah, halfway
there, woah-oh, livin' on a prayer!", I can keep up. If your chorus is:
He's a Monday morning lunatic Disturbed from time to time Lost within himself in his solitary shell A temporary catatonic madman on occasion When will he break out of his solitary shell
Then just no.
And
one big big offender is Big Big Train; take Keeper Of Abbeys - catchy
song; almost sounds like I'm listening to Great Big Sea. The lyrics to
the chorus?
Keeper of abbeys His name was carved in the grey stone It was the angel of the north
That's
not very chorusy at all... it barely looks like lyrics. Fortunately, the song goes into a lovely jam
with violin and electric sitar solos, so it's not completely a waste.
Yup, and DT use these pop like choruses in lots of songs.
it's called Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.
I don't see what the problem is. So catchy-ness does not belong in prog? At all?
The problem I have with DT and especially in their Rudess era is soloing just for the sake of soloing and it happens quite a bit, a show off like attitude, the music just does not "breathe".
No, it can be catchy but as he is saying, that very upbeat chorus just doesn't fit the lyrics. It is not even like Radiohead deliberately creating a dissonance between the music and the lyrics. These choruses are like generic pop choruses so have no particular character of their own and are expected to go along with "Monday morning lunatic...".
What really bugs me is when so-called prog music is just plain average. For me, a piece can only be called prog when most aspects of the music are WAY above average...
The musicians must be WAY above average. Not just musical, but virtouso! Showoff? Yes, please!
The compositions have to be WAY above average. No ABA or verse/chorus, but highly complex! Lots of mood changes, time-signature changes, solos, and layers of instrumentation.
The vocals must be WAY above average. Not just any blow-hard who (thinks they) can sing happy birthday.
The lyrics must be WAY above average. Not just story telling, but thought provoking. Either shut up or give me something interesting to ponder. I don't need to be told a bed-time story.
Too many so-called prog bands are just average musicians playing la-di-dah music with unnecessary (or average) vocalists telling a boring, face-value story.
Some people complain about prog for the sake of prog, but I have a beef
with pop for the sake of pop in prog music. Like when a band tries to
write a really catchy sounding chorus in a song that really doesn't need
one, especially when the lyrics aren't very poppy.
I think the
first time I noticed this was Dream Theater's Solitary Shell (from 7
Degrees of Inner Turbulence)... in the live version from Score, James
LaBrie shouts "Sing it!" during the chorus. Uh, no James... I can't
understand a word you're singing. Now, if your chorus is "Woah, halfway
there, woah-oh, livin' on a prayer!", I can keep up. If your chorus is:
He's a Monday morning lunatic Disturbed from time to time Lost within himself in his solitary shell A temporary catatonic madman on occasion When will he break out of his solitary shell
Then just no.
And
one big big offender is Big Big Train; take Keeper Of Abbeys - catchy
song; almost sounds like I'm listening to Great Big Sea. The lyrics to
the chorus?
Keeper of abbeys His name was carved in the grey stone It was the angel of the north
That's
not very chorusy at all... it barely looks like lyrics. Fortunately, the song goes into a lovely jam
with violin and electric sitar solos, so it's not completely a waste.
Yup, and DT use these pop like choruses in lots of songs.
it's called Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence.
I don't see what the problem is. So catchy-ness does not belong in prog? At all?
The problem I have with DT and especially in their Rudess era is soloing just for the sake of soloing and it happens quite a bit, a show off like attitude, the music just does not "breathe".
Nothing wrong with catchiness or pop in prog - just sometimes it doesn't really fit or work for me. Some bands do a great job of it, and some don't.
What really bugs me is when so-called prog music is just plain average. For me, a piece can only be called prog when most aspects of the music are WAY above average...
The musicians must be WAY above average. Not just musical, but virtouso! Showoff? Yes, please!
The compositions have to be WAY above average. No ABA or verse/chorus, but highly complex! Lots of mood changes, time-signature changes, solos, and layers of instrumentation.
The vocals must be WAY above average. Not just any blow-hard who (thinks they) can sing happy birthday.
The lyrics must be WAY above average. Not just story telling, but thought provoking. Either shut up or give me something interesting to ponder. I don't need to be told a bed-time story.
Too many so-called prog bands are just average musicians playing la-di-dah music with unnecessary (or average) vocalists telling a boring, face-value story.
a definite "no" to this from me, to each of the 4 conditions
A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
What really bugs me is when so-called prog music is just plain average. For me, a piece can only be called prog when most aspects of the music are WAY above average...
The musicians must be WAY above average. Not just musical, but virtouso! Showoff? Yes, please!
The compositions have to be WAY above average. No ABA or verse/chorus, but highly complex! Lots of mood changes, time-signature changes, solos, and layers of instrumentation.
The vocals must be WAY above average. Not just any blow-hard who (thinks they) can sing happy birthday.
The lyrics must be WAY above average. Not just story telling, but thought provoking. Either shut up or give me something interesting to ponder. I don't need to be told a bed-time story.
Too many so-called prog bands are just average musicians playing la-di-dah music with unnecessary (or average) vocalists telling a boring, face-value story.
a definite "no" to this from me, to each of the 4 conditions
Dear god, I think I avoid all of these like the plague except 1 in fusion and technical metal.
Ian
Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com
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Posted: May 18 2018 at 13:09
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Manuel wrote: