Riverside Swans: Michael Is Done With You

Riverside

The Swans is dreadful. Endless repetition, the soulless talking vocals - don't enjoy the timbre of his voice. Music you play when you want to empty a room.

Riverside used to be one of my favorites, yet after the passing of their original guitarist, some magic left, and I've lost interest. I Still spin their older albums, though.

So, really, neither.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - August 23 2023 at 08:33

Against expectations, I voted for the Swanssong - the best song I've heard by Swans so far. 

Edited by suitkees - August 23 2023 at 09:26

Logan wrote: Will (Grumpyprogfan), for instance, might still really dislike it but not be convinced that it is necessarily dreadful if he had time to experience and to some extent grok the album.

I have heard much of the new Swans release, and I think it's all dreadful. We have discussed our vastly different musical worlds before, Greg. I enjoy music that you "heartily dislike", such as "Romantic Warrior". I prefer more upbeat music and you prefer the melancholy. I enjoy music that some say is soulless because they play too many notes... Allan Holdsworth's solo material comes to mind. Just curious, if you plan on revisiting "Romantic Warrior" for another listen. It's okay that we don't agree on music, yet both of us seem to enjoy fresh music of today and are always searching for new finds. We have that in common. There is so much great music now that is worth talking about and exposing.

As for people not responding, I believe they many not be comfortable doing so, or it's too time consuming. And, no offense, but your topics repeat... Swans, Cardiacs, and Anna, often, which could put off some. For me, it shows me your passionate about these bands and want to share that. And music is for sharing.

@ Will: I like repetitive music, and being repetitive is part of my personality (it links to being an obsessive). I know that even people who like the kinds of music I often talk about are loathe to respond due to the repetitive nature (no doubt I'm on the spectrum, so I should work to curb these tendencies), Actually some kinds of repetition drive me up the wall. I don't want to see yet another Yes vs Genesis poll, and so why should anyone want to see yet another Cardiacs, Swans, Anna von H. etc. poll from me. Or before that Art Zoyd, Magma, Comus, Cos.... Funnily enough, I was thinking of making a list for myself of bands I have made multiple polls on that I should never make a poll on again a few days ago as I get tired of seeing the same names again and again so regularly.

We have different musical worlds, but at the same time I like a lot of more upbeat music like Frank Zappa, French TV, and Frogg Cafe, and a jazzy one that both Samuel (Meltdowner) are very keen on who is Bruno Pernadas, and various Swans music is upbeat and I like that too. Come to think of it, dreadful is a fantastic word for a lot of Swans (especially early Swans which can fill one with a sense of dread). I expect you're right about people.

I wouldn't expect people to have the time to respond or want to (I'm lucky that are plenty of people here, including you, Samuel, Kees and all why\o have posted in this topic that I have had really enjoyable and even enlightening conversations with -- heartfelt appreciations to all of you for the kindness, tolerance and conversations). And I do appreciate those who take the time to listen to and familarise themselves with the music then vote even without commenting (would not be surprised if some vote are not so much for Riverside as against Swans as I have done too many polls with them -- I can't blame them at all if that is the case). I had noticed two votes for Riverside in short order without comment and I just wanted to connect with those people because I am more interested in people's thoughts than seeing poll results. I probably should not do things in poll form because I like forum conversations despite being quite bad at it (to the point of being told that it's rare that a word I write can be understood) and being very shy (a reason why I sometimes force myself to try to interact, and I do like interaction, but others should not have to).

@ Samuel: Really glad you enjoy the Swans track. I wouldn't call that or the previous album, leaving meaning., oppressive on the whole (nor The Glowing Man for me actually or a lot of Swans), but it can be. I have yet to hear that Riverside album. Never really explored them before. I did notice they released that song in late 2022 as a single. Swans also released two singles for the upcoming The Beggar, Paradise Is Mine and Los Angeles: City of Death.

Edited by Logan - August 23 2023 at 12:02

Voted for Swans. I have had heard both albums in full a few times prior and found The Beggar overall to be more engaging than ID.Entity. This may have influenced my vote somewhat as it becomes difficult for me to compare the individual tracks. For me, I really enjoyed Riverside with there first four albums. While with Swans, it was from The Seer up that drew my interest.

I agree with Samuel on the two Lunatic Soul albums he mentioned. Different, but both are among my favorites of his work.

I do have a lot more to say than what gets said but I often visit PA on my phone and it's a bit of a chore to tap tap on the the phone and try to catch typos. Also, I am limited in my articulation about music. I feel like I usually express preference or saying something generic like it's nice and not be able to give specifics.

So, here are some further thoughts.

Echoing some other opinions, the Riverside track seemed to be generic Riverside. I liked the underlying melody that had some Middle Eastern(?) qualities to it, but it still felt like I heard it before from them. With the Swans track, I liked the 'brightness' in the middle and didn't find the song repetitive. I liked the underlying bass line as well.

^ I think time will make it one of my all-time favourites, the fact that it appeared in a very difficult moment of my life and that I saw him a couple of times then really consolidated the album for me. And speaking of Riverside, I was also addicted to the soothing melancholy of "Love Fear and the Time Machine" at the time, it really helped me.

^^ Cheers, Samuel.

^ Tony, that does not surprise me at all. Kinky sh*t (LOL). To be honest, the thought of you with a red hot poker being shoved up your backside is way more boring to me than thinking about Swans and even less interesting to me than thinking about washing the dishes. I mean you have made such statements about various bands for years and at first it was mildly entertaining to imagine, but the thought of you being poked and prodded and tortured in various ways got pretty blasé pretty fast -- mind you, I never was into S&M.

Big Country's title song, The Seer, may have Kate Bush going for it, but I find it a really boring song. I listened to much of the rest of the album and it was mostly pretty generic and lame stuff to these ears.

Do to the folk aspect, I guess The Warrior off Swan's The Seer comes closest to it, and I can't hear what makes Big Country's 1986 music special (it does not connect with me), but if this is one great thing to you and holds your heart, who am I to disagree?





Live and live live, to each his or her own tastes.

While The Seer is not my favourite Swans album, it might be interesting to compare it to Big Country's album closest to the same release time as Swans' The Seer, which is The Journey (Big Country's swansong, vs. a Swans song might be interesting). If the Journey is not brilliant then I may be forced to compare it unfavourably to the band Journey (no, I won't stoop that low). Oh, it's got a track called After the Flood, before doing this poll I had been searching for similarly titled 2010 songs to compare to Chelsea's Wolfe's After the Fall.

Hmm, the first track of The Journey is already sounding generic.

Makes me wonder if this is really amazing and acclaimed album in music circles as that album does not sound that inoovative to me and I would expect later albums to be of very high quality and not derivative. I mean there are quite a few albums called The Seer, so this would have to be pretty definitely amazing and innovative I would think for it to be an insult. Maybe it was a very acclaimed and influential album, and maybe you just had to be there, so to speak.



Sorry, you may have gone to some of the greatest universities in the Western world, but when it comes to music I think you need some schooling. Just kidding, we are all entitled to our own tastes, and I know you recognise the subjectivity of your claims and are aware of the hyperbole. The shtick can get a little tedious, however. That said, I recognise that my topics and posts commonly are extremely tedious, so I cannot complain. Well, I can, but I should not.

I hope you do a poll or topic covering Big Country's discography, maybe you'll turn some more of of us onto it. Maybe pair it against King Crimson, Magma or VdGG, that would be fun and might spur on some amusing discussion and we can discuss all the nasty mutilating things you'd rather have done to you than listen to certain music.

Okay, since I believe in really researching before spouting opinions as facts about acts, and in exploring music across the discography to get a somewhat informed opinion when it comes to personal taste, I liked music off the debut, and the second was quite good. I liked The Seer (the Big Country album, not Swans) less and after that it got mediocre at best with the following albums. I would love to do to do a poll with Swans 1991 neofolky album White Light From the Mouth of Infinity to compare to Big Country's 1991 folk rocky No Place Like Home.

These two released in the same year have country qualities and seem fairly apt for comparison:





Swans is more interesting to me, but both tracks do have their charms.

By the way, both Swans and Big Country released their first album in 1983 and both were still releasing albums 30 years later, and 40 years later too in Swans case. I would love to do a topic on both as Big Country rather is growing on me more as I explore and become more acquainted with its styles (still sounds quite boring and derivative in large part of the discography). If it gets complaints, so what? People can ignore it. It would be interesting to compare on an album to album basis, or even songs to songs using say, each bands most popular 40 or so tracks (maybe use reddit and rateyourmusic as a guide), and then draw in reviews and ratings to determine whose discography reigns supreme? Naw, I'll just do a early 190's poll including those tracks above and various others with a folky and/or country from around the same time so as not to accused of being Swans-centric and to give attention to a band that Swans probably did not pay homage to by choosing to give one of its much later albums the same name (The Seer -- could do a poll on various albums named The Seer at one time). We have various of my fave bands of that time including Current 93 and Dead Can Dance.

Edited by Logan - August 24 2023 at 14:56