The importance of music theory |
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 12 2008 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 5898 |
Topic: The importance of music theory Posted: August 26 2014 at 05:29 |
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Time for another "issue I've never got really cleared up but mentioned fleetingly in quite a few previous discussions" thread.
I used to play in an orchestra where I had to read sheet music, so I obviously know the basics of music theory. At the same time, much of the more advanced aspects involving things like melodic phrasing, texture, timbre, consonance/dissonance, counterpoint etc. I only have a novice understanding of patched together from music reviews written by people who know more of theory than I do. As a result, I sometimes wonder how much of the compositional content and details regarding performance I'm missing with more "out there" avantgarde/technical music. On the other hand, I'm also kind of worried that if I learn too much music theory there'll be a lot of music I currently enjoy I no longer will because it no longer matches up to those standards set by the theory. That has happened to me on a major scale, and I've also encountered quite a few people who were really into music theory but couldn't enjoy any music whose songwriting and performance didn't fit into mathematically perfect rhythmic/melodic patterns. Curiously enough, those types I've met tend to find most "classic" progressive rock's approximation of classical/folk/jazz influences incorporated into a rock framework somewhat kitschy but are much more positive towards Beefheart/Zappa-type "avantgarde rock" as well as the Zeuhl and RIO scenes. (often also the more abstract types of extreme metal too) Again, here I'm going by anecdotal experience but I'm curious to know how much I'm missing out on and how much analyzing music from an overtly formal/theoretical perspective in turn will actually limit your perspective. |
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 07:40 | |
Your question/issue is pretty complex to unravel, but I'll just say that although my music theory knowledge is far from advanced, it has enhanced my enjoyment of music, whether or not the music in question is demonstrative of music theory concepts. Knowing the difference between different types of chords and scales makes a lot of music interesting to me because I'm the sort who likes trying to understand the intent of the composer (note I said "trying to"... I realize the composer's actual intent is something I can't ever really claim to know). However, on the other hand, lately I've been into a more avant garde type of music, and I really don't know any theory (if there is any) behind it, other than it does something pleasant to my brain. In that case, maybe it's better if I don't try too hard to understand it. So I guess my advice is to seek understanding insomuch as you're genuinely curious, but don't get fanatical about it or dig deeper than you really want, or some of the ineffable magic may be lost. But satisfying your own natural curiosity is almost always a good thing. |
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The-Bullet
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 23 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 401 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 08:07 | |
To me, listening to music is an emotional experience not an analytical one. Improving your music theory knowledge can only have a positive effect, whether listing to or creating music.
Rick Wakeman has said (paraphrasing)that you need to know the rules, before you can break them. |
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"Why say it cannot be done.....they'd be better doing pop songs?" |
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator Retired Admin Joined: April 01 2009 Location: Atlanta Status: Offline Points: 26138 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 08:16 | |
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
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Manuel
Forum Senior Member Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13179 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 08:47 | |
I totally agree with you.Learning theory makes you understand the music structure, in terms of composition, progressions, regressions, orchestration, arrangements, instrumentation, etc. But don't forget about the emotion, feelings, sentiments, etc around the music, that can not be expressed or limited by your knowledge of theory.
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JJMcBlaze
Forum Newbie Joined: August 02 2014 Location: Nederland Status: Offline Points: 4 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 09:02 | |
Though, I agree that music is an 'emotional journey' for the listener, it must be more a more academic process for the musician.
I've learnt (as an engineer and as musician) that immediate knowledge of theory a; saves hours of trying to explain other musicians how to play something, and b; that it helps in understanding what progression or individual chord can conjure the emotional leverage you're looking for. The levels of theoretical knowledge depend largely on the music one plays. I guess that 'the average grunge band' with three minute/three chord songs require a lot less theoretical knowledge than a jazz-fusion band or a symphonic orchestra. In the end, though, I am very sure that when one has learned his theory in such a way that it's like second nature, emotional baggage can come from that theoretical freedom, Regards, Len |
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PrognosticMind
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 02 2014 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 11:11 | |
This. This times all the this-es. Music for me is like cooking. You're absolutely free to experiment with different ingredients and textures, but if you have some sort of pre-knowledge of what constitutes the chemistry of those ingredients, you up your odds of producing something not only edible, but delicious as well. I used to feel that theory would inhibit creativity because of a certain line of thinking, but now I'm seeing how it actually enhances creativity in the long run. I think the main benefit of understanding theory is the communicative aspect, as someone has already mentioned.
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Progosopher
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 12 2009 Location: Coolwood Status: Offline Points: 6467 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 12:40 | |
If you just want to rock as a listener, you don't need any. If you want to rock as a player it helps to know some. If you are going to compose or perform anything reasonably complex or sophisticated, the level of your knowledge will reflect in your work. This does not necessarily require formal training but that can only enhance your control over what you create. As a listener, I have found that the little I know helps me to both appreciate good music of any genre. More study could only enhance my appreciation of jazz and classical. I understand what you mean about how knowledge of theory can interfere with music already enjoyed, but that is only music that is sub-standard. A former girlfriend was really into Green Day until she started to learn guitar. Then she realized they had done nothing that a first year student could not play. A similar thing has happened to me but now I have come full circle and can enjoy something that simply rocks out. Not Green Day, they are a bunch of posers, but I can get into the Ramones, and that music is not complex but boy does it rock.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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The T
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 12:58 | |
I'm of the opinion that learning something always, always helps.
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Svetonio
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 13:18 | |
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ProgMetaller2112
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 08 2012 Location: Pacoima,CA,USA Status: Offline Points: 3145 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 13:36 | |
^^^ Nah, All you need to do is play whatever comes to mind. Just pull a KC-like improv and you're good to go.
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Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.” ― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four "Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart |
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brainstormer
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 20 2008 Location: Seattle, WA Status: Offline Points: 887 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 14:13 | |
Interesting ideas, but to me the best music comes from those who learned the rules first. By far. Vangelis was always musical, from a very early age, and just because someone doesn't know how to write music, doesn't mean their minds are not thinking of "music theory" -- but just not in a way that is formally trained. So, there are exceptions, but I think those are people of unique gifts and early environments. I think enough negative experiences with music teachers at colleges could probably overwhelm someone's innate gifts and directions to the point where they couldn't use them anymore because they wouldn't, kind of like a Pavlovian response to avoid the memories or introjects of pain.
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Sumdeus
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 23 2012 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 831 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 14:37 | |
just another tool, do what you will with it. knowing theory will not make your music better or worse, you will.
in my mind, I've always differentiated between music theory and general knowledge of music. To me, music theory is specifically the rules made by Western society to dictate the 'correct' way to play Western music. The main use I see of it is for easy communication to other people of the Western world who are familiar with the same terminology. Beyond that, I think you could have a great idea of how music works and how to make the music you want to make and all the intricacies of it without knowing any 'theory', aka the 'correct' names and concepts. this is one reason why I find it so hard to motivate myself to 'learn' theory, I start it and feel like I am being taught concepts that I have known existed in music for years, but I just do not know the 'right' name for it. but I think general music knowledge is your understanding of music and that comes from just hearing it and thinking about it and playing it.
well to be fair if you can do KC-styled improvs you probably have a good grip on how music works Edited by Sumdeus - August 26 2014 at 14:52 |
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Sumdeus - surreal space/psych/prog journeys
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HackettFan
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 20 2012 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 7951 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 20:17 | |
Music theory often gives me ideas, whether it's just exploring new directions or outright breaking the rules. Music theory is a useful backdrop. Sometimes when I am playing stuff that is comfortable for me, I actually get too comfortable and stuck in a rut, and it is nice to think my way through to something different.
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PrognosticMind
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 02 2014 Location: New Hampshire Status: Offline Points: 1195 |
Posted: August 26 2014 at 20:37 | |
90% of the time, I subscribe to this philosophy. The other 10% of the time, I wish I understood more theory .
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"A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous. Got me?"
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 10 2010 Location: Barcelona Spain Status: Offline Points: 5154 |
Posted: August 27 2014 at 02:54 | |
Music does not necessarily need to be technically complex to be good and enjoyable. Once you have accepted this principle, there is no reason why knowing a lot of theory should reduce the appeal of good music which you have liked until now, even if the technical knowledge you have gained reveals that it is actually simple music following well-known rules. As it has already been said, knowing can never be a bad thing. It may, however, help you distinguish between music which is genuinely inspired and music which is excessively constructed 'by the numbers'. Well, that's my guess, I know little theory myself. A bit like I may find a lot of paintings good, but someone who knows a lot about painting will be able to discern those which can be considered as genuine art and those which do not.
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prog4evr
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 22 2005 Location: Wuhan, China Status: Offline Points: 1455 |
Posted: August 27 2014 at 03:06 | |
^^ What they said ^^ |
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 25 2011 Location: Los Angeles, CA Status: Offline Points: 10970 |
Posted: August 27 2014 at 03:13 | |
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infocat
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: June 10 2011 Location: Colorado, USA Status: Offline Points: 4671 |
Posted: August 27 2014 at 22:10 | |
I've got a theory; it could be bunnies...
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Kazza3
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 29 2009 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 557 |
Posted: August 28 2014 at 06:48 | |
I don't think it matters a great deal. I'm studying classical music performance at uni, and certainly knowledge of music theory hasn't adversely affected how I like listening to any music. The classical influence is probably what led me to prog in the first place.
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