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If we ignore the technical brilliance? |
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richardh 
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 30304 |
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 Posted: September 05 2007 at 04:06 |
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As much as I like classic Pink Floyd I couldn't stick just having a collection based around their sort of music. I've always like some measure of brilliance in my music and Carl Palmer's technical virtuosity on Tarkus (for example) makes quite a nice contrast to Nick Masons sober playing on ,say, Echoes. Its all good. Good is good in whatever form.
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Atavachron
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Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65855 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 04:08 |
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^ yeah, basically, and what Whiz said too
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stomp
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Joined: January 10 2006 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 38 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 05:40 |
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Harmonium would come out on top for me
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JayDee
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VIP Member Joined: September 07 2005 Location: Elysian Fields Status: Offline Points: 10063 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 05:55 |
That's why I love both bands.
 I'm a sucker for technical brilliance.
And by the way, Dream Theater does actually produce good music, different with VdGG.  Edited by Majestic_Mayhem - September 05 2007 at 05:56 |
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Anaon
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Joined: September 01 2005 Location: Kobaïa Status: Offline Points: 849 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 07:36 |
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So, it seems that music doesn't have to be technical to be prog for you here?
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Shakespeare
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Joined: July 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 7744 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 08:10 |
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why should it?^
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laplace
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Joined: October 06 2005 Location: popupControl(); Status: Offline Points: 7606 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 08:24 |
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someone mentioned VdGG but I always thought Banton was a stellar organist and Hammill's voice is a great example of control. Their music might not be full of mega-progressive flourishes and sh*tty moog patches but there's a solidly masterful reason for that - they're good musicians WITH taste =P
Edited by laplace - September 05 2007 at 08:25 |
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Anaon
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 09:06 |
I don't know, I'm juste asking, for me it's clear that it's not a question of technical skills but I'm curious to know what people think about it here ;) |
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coleio
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 10:43 |
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Well it isn't prog if there isn't some sort of complex element to the playing or composition or recording.
I can't think of any real simple prog except for post-rock and perhaps a few odd other bands. And since when were VdGG simple  |
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Eat heartily at breakfast, for tonight, we dine in Hell!!
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Anaon
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 11:12 |
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I don't find that VDGG is simple
 About "technical", I think really about playing skills. That's what I mean, for me prog is about complex composition (in different ways). Probably another endless debate ;) |
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glass house
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Joined: June 16 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 4986 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 11:54 |
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Technical brilliance - not if the emphasis is on it.
Different time signatures - sure why not, not really necessary though. So I'm thinking of Heavy Horses by JT. And afcourse they are all very good musicians. But they don't overdo it. Just some good compositions by excellent artists.
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Anaon
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 12:20 |
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Jethro Tull is brillant in this way I think. It's not too technical (even if it must be really really hard to play their music!!), so making complex music sounding simple is just brillant!
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Flucktrot
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 18:01 |
Good call!
And in similar fashion, Focus (especially Hamburger)
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Thank you, God of Rock, for this chance to kick ass
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The Acolyte
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Joined: January 15 2007 Location: Colombia Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 18:16 |
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I'm really not interested in being rude nor close-minded, but to me the things you've listed aren't nonsense at all, in fact, they are some of the esence of prog. I'd prefer to say that some albums are more PROG (strictly talking in terms of elements) than others.
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"…but would I leave you in this moment of your trial?"
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ProgRobUK
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Joined: February 12 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Posted: September 05 2007 at 18:39 |
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I guess I partially agree with you, Acolyte. My view is that prog is characterised by the quality, complexity and variety of the composition using rock elements but not being restricted to the classic verse, chorus, verse, chorus, etc of traditional rock. The sort of person who writes like this is probably also likely to have good technical musicianship skills and may well choose to write some tracks using odd time signatures. However, I don't see these as necessary elements I see them as a consequence of the type of music and the type of person who writes it.
An example. I was listening today to Pink Floyd's Division Bell and was struck by how much the album was dominated by Dave Gilmour's guitar, but without the trickery. I think that PF is the archetypal band demonstrating this and it is no surprise that they have been mentioned by several other people.
As for the drugs... they are not necessary at all for good prog.
Cheers,
Rob
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infandous
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Posted: September 06 2007 at 11:19 |
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Hmm, yeah, hard to think of many prog songs with drug themes...........
And the other stuff is essential to prog if you ask me. But not necessary for good or even great music. But for me, compositional complexity (not necessarily the same thing as instrumental dexterity) is what defines prog as a genre. You can't have prog without it. Again though, this is not a requirement for good or great music and many prog bands incorporate simpler music into their albums (and even sections of longer pieces). But I think without it, you don't have prog (I am one of those heretics that doesn't consider PTree to be a prog band.........but they are a great band nonetheless). I don't know though, I get confused myself about what I consider prog, let alone what other people think  |
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Philéas
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Posted: September 06 2007 at 13:33 |
100 % agreed. |
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Fight Club
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Posted: September 06 2007 at 13:40 |
I would complete reverse those bands, and then I might agree with you...
DT definately does do that sometimes though, but not NEARLY as much as people say.
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Nightfly
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Posted: September 07 2007 at 04:53 |
I agree that much of PT's music is not that complicated in terms of structure but what Gavin Harrison fits into that with his drumming is far from simple. That guy has so many great fills up his sleeve.
Of course Prog doesn't have to be complicated to be good but it helps if a musician has the chops to go wherever he needs to. My imediate thought when I first heard Marillions first album, Script...... when it was released was that this band want to be Genesis but they'll never be as good because they can't play as well as Genesis. So maybe if you want to imitate somebody you'd better be as good as or a better player than them or develop your own style which Marillion went on to do.
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Guests
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Posted: December 15 2007 at 13:28 |
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[Prog] -- [technicality] = [Pink Floyd]
Don't forget progressive electronic. |
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rileydog22 wrote: