Overrated Genesis?

NO NO NO!!!! You have missed my whole point completely.  Taste has NOTHING to do with what I am discussing.  There are two ways of discussing these albums and these groups. Preference... TASTE!!!!! or the history of prog, where things such as influence, innovation, sucess commercially come in. 

Well, lets go point by point:

1. Commercial success: I can't care less, if I cared I would belistening Rap and Hip Hop instead of Prog. Quallity is inherent to the music, commercial success even when desired, is opnly an external factor than in most of the cases is not related with quality, but with popularity, hit singles and radio DJ's influences.

1. Innovation: Genesis is completely different to any other of the big 5 or six Prog bands, Yes is more oriented toward personal virtuosism of their membners and explicit Classical quotes especially in keyboards, ELP is highly influenced by late Romantic and Modern Classical they are a band that loves to make arrangements of certain xclassical masterpieces; Pink Floyd is oriented towards Psycodelia at their early days and in their later days they were probably the band that was closer to Genesis due to their strong atmospheric guitar. King Crimson is an experimental band, they are hard to describe and Jethro Tull (If you want six), is highly influenced by Blues and UK Folk. Genesis on the other hand worried mopre about atmospheres and bandwork, few solos (Probably the top 5 or 6 with less solos) and works with Classical and Celtic structures rather than with explicit quotes like Yes.....Sop each one was original and innovative.

1. Influence: I believe Genesis got the lead there, all Neo Prog (or at least most of it) is influenced by Genesis rather than for any other band.

1. Preference or Taste: We see that TODAY the preference in Prog community is with Genesis.

THAT is where I feel Genesis is being overrated.... I really respect you Ivan, but you aren't picking up what I putting down.

Yes I am, read my previous red comments, I go point by point.

hahahah

It has nothing to do what I like or don't like.  I'm a fan of prog.. I have better things to do than try to disparage someone for liking Genesis.  I think their albums are great.  I am consiously trying to stear this discussion from Progger's random 'flames' on Genesis's quality into something a bit more objective. 

Yes you are, there's an obvious difference between throwing wood to a flame as other members and giving arguments (Even when flawed IMO) like you

flawed maybe but hopefully thought provoking (I keep on getting different shades of blue here and it's driving me crazy hahahah)

 Progger and you could argue day and night about whether Genesis made good music...

I would never argue about taste, less with that guy, I argue about influence, and opinions.

as I do, that's why I enjoy discussing this stuff, with you in particular.  Taste is personal.

 there is no right answer.  You and I could argue about the importance of Genesis with prog.. there might not be a right answer, but there is a meaningful discussion hidden in there.  That is the whole point of my series of posts, not to slam your beloved Genesis, but to try to bring a new angle of discussion other than.... "I love Genesis and so do a majority of posters here.... thus it must be a classic"  BAHHH!!!!! 

You had success, we're having a nice discussion full of arguments.

and see above... it's not preference that I ranting against hahahahh

That's your mistake, you're ranting aboout preferences, because if you say Genesis is being overrated, your criticizing the majority of the members preference, and the worst thing is that as honest as you are, you still don't get it.

my mistake is not being specific enough about where I'm going with this.  I understand the top 100 list is strictly preference.  I am not saying that Genesis albums are being overrated, though.. some are IMO hahaha but that's my opinion for what it's worth.  My issue has been putting Genesis up with the most important and influential groups of prog, the group itself BEING overrated, and conversely using that as a back door argument for the continued lack of respect for what ELP accomplished and their place in the prog heirarchy.  It is debateable of course... THAT is what I've tried to stimulate here. I honestly could care two flips if someone thinks The Lamb is overrated, or SEbyP is unlistenable crap.  It is how the listener is affected by the music, thus .... where is the discussion.  Who am I or you or anyone to tell them they have pigs ears for music.  I love to discuss music, and have tried to stear this particular subject into something a bit more....concrete.

no Ivan it doesn't start and end in the UK and the US, but you know as well as I do, that to crack the US market is the dream and goal of EVERY UK group. 

It may be the dream, because there's much more people and the Musical Industry is stronger in USA.

But be honest, except Pink Floyd, no other Prog band had a really great commercial success in USA compared with POP, R&B or any more commercial genre.

And IMO Italy is the second most important Prog market or at least it was during the 70's.

Yes and ELP had very good success here. ELP did as well in Germany and Italy as well.

My point has been to crack that market with a type of music absolutely FOREIGN to U.S listeners, who wouldn't know Mussorgsky .... well they didn't hahahah is quite the accomplishment and counts a great deal for impact.  Lots of groups made great music... but if the people arent buying it they aren't hearing it.  Impact can be discussed objectively.  If you or anyone wants to try to tell me how Genesis had more impact on 70's prog than ELP.. then go ahead and try it.

I don't care about the impact, because I could also turn your argument saying that Genesis school was more influential in later Prog' than any other 70's band. Everything is relative, Genesis was not popular INUK AND USA in the 70's, but tofday is the favorite classic Prog band in every Prog site.

you brought ihis up.. above.. but will repeat the question.. I agree but which is more important. Impact in the day, or influence down the road.

that is a vaid point and the reason why Genesis is considered amoung the big 5 or 6, for it is not based upon what they accomplished in the 70's.  As I said earlier.. lots of groups put out great albums that didn't sell that great.  Genesis has passed the test of time.. to the point where they are considered one of the great prog groups of alltime.  They sure didn't have that distinction during the day.   Of course everything is subjective... I'm throwing out my two cents and seeing if anyone else can bring something to the table other than  a like or dislike of the Genesis albums.......

Holy God, and you make me argue with you to agree at the end

hahahah..... as I said I don't hate Genesis I love them and their albums.  I'm trying to stear the discussion towards a more factual and less opinion basis.  Everyone learns... and everyone wins.