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npjnpj View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Old Albums, re-done?
    Posted: June 27 2008 at 03:19
Lately I've been listening to some old favourites and I've been thinking that I'm spoilt by the modern production techniques. I love the way that sound enginieering has advanced to the stage that (if done properly) the music has a richness that could never be reached in the '70s. Even remasters can't seem to reach that level.
 
Listening to old albums I wish that albums could be re-recorded and made to sound as they'd been made in the present day. I'd love to hear Close to the Edge, Fragile,Tarkus, Trilogy or (especially) early Genesis with today's production.
 
One album that springs to mind where this has been done with great success (to my mind, anyway) is Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells, the 2003 version.
 
Just wishful thinking, I know, but it would be so great. The band's mostly don't exist in that form any more etc., etc.
 
Does anyone else feel this way, and if so, which albums would you like to be re-recorded? Or are there albums that you feel shouldn't be touched because they're perfect the way they are? This is fantasy land, so please don't feel restricted by reality.


Edited by npjnpj - June 27 2008 at 03:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 03:35
Thick as A Brick...because it just sounds terrible. Confused


Just kidding of course!



Well really, I do love the songwriting on "Nursery Cryme" but some of the sounds get labeled as "video game-ish" by non-Genesis listeners...I would like to hear what a modern version of that would be...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 03:48
I've definitely thought about it. Would have been nice if those bands/albums had this technology.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 03:59
Absolutely not.

It might sound spiffy and newfangled today, but in five years, it will sound dated and terribly 2008. Remember when Eloy re-did some of their early tunes for an early 90s compilation? Guess what those tunes sound like today?

Besides, to re-record the music is to remove it from its original historical context and suddenly shove it somewhere it doesn't belong. To me, that's a pointless exercise that offends the craftsmanship, ingenuity and freshness of the initial project.

That, and I find modern production techniques to be bloody awful Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 04:21
I wish most modern albums could sound like the old ones. Confused
Bigger on the inside.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 05:24
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

I'd love to hear Close to the Edge, Fragile,Tarkus, Trilogy or (especially) early Genesis with today's production.


I think the Yes and ELP albums sound magnificent, especially in their recently remastered versions. With Genesis, I've always regretted that you hardly hear PG's voice during the 'Musical Box' climax. I SO hoped this problem would finally be solved in the remaster, but apparently it's impossible...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 05:33
Whenever this actually happens, bad things usually result. It doesn't help that I don't really like the extremely polished sound that's the definition of good production today, it's one of many reasons most new music sounds so totally lifeless. Angry
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 05:35
Originally posted by npjnpj npjnpj wrote:

Lately I've been listening to some old favourites and I've been thinking that I'm spoilt by the modern production techniques. I love the way that sound enginieering has advanced to the stage that (if done properly) the music has a richness that could never be reached in the '70s. Even remasters can't seem to reach that level.
 
Listening to old albums I wish that albums could be re-recorded and made to sound as they'd been made in the present day. I'd love to hear Close to the Edge, Fragile,Tarkus, Trilogy or (especially) early Genesis with today's production.
 
One album that springs to mind where this has been done with great success (to my mind, anyway) is Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells, the 2003 version.
 
Just wishful thinking, I know, but it would be so great. The band's mostly don't exist in that form any more etc., etc.
 
Does anyone else feel this way, and if so, which albums would you like to be re-recorded? Or are there albums that you feel shouldn't be touched because they're perfect the way they are? This is fantasy land, so please don't feel restricted by reality.

no way! I hate modern production; it sounds incredibly sterile. besides, to really come up with that music again you would have to recreate the atmosphere at the time of the recording, which already is close to impossible. those bands had a few hours of studio time to get their album together back then; today they have all the time of the world. the external pressure that is necessary for creating a masterpiece no longer is there


Edited by BaldJean - June 27 2008 at 05:44


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 05:41

Interesting, recently I've been thinking about that, but from another point of view: yes, I would like to listen to new executions to old stuff, but with the old instruments and sound techniqs, simply because I came to the sad conclusion that digital keyborads and sound techniqs sound awful most of the times...Unhappy. (OK, maybe I'm a bit exejurating). But, listen to the same execution again and again, the same guitar riffs, the same way of singing, is tiresome. Maybe its about time that the situation will be as in classical music: many executions, in a slightly different way each time, and one could choose the most preferable execution. This executions does not have to be done by the same original bands, (and I dont like to say it but, note that our 70's heros are close to age 60 now... which does not mean they could not execute it well... but... isnt it time for REFRESHING the 'lines' a little bit?). Maybe thats what cover bands do, but I didnt check it yet so I cannot tell.

I have a sort of idea of TOOL does 'The watcher of the skies' by GENESIS, in another way, and with Carrey riffs... I dont know exactly why...
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 05:54
Pretty Things' S.F.Sorrow got redone with D Gilmour guesting....
 
 
Now available on DVD format at Amazon for less than  fiver - and remember the Pretty Things were one of the first bands to tour an albums, part relying on pretaped instruments to augment their own live playing.
 
And then there are a heap of Who tunes rearranged/recorded by Pete Townshend in his solo releases - check out the remakes of Who Are You and Won't Get Fooled Again on Lifehouse Chronicles.


Edited by Dick Heath - June 27 2008 at 05:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 06:02
It hasn't really worked so far, modern realisation of old albums lack *something*, I don't know whether that's due to modern production techniques, the artists desire to 'tinker' with the original or simply the lack of spontaneity that was present in the studio during the first recording. For alternative versions I'll stick with live albums.
 
The Enid's In The Region of the Summer Stars (side 2) is limp by comparison to the original and Eloy's recreation of some of their earlier tracks on Chronicles I & II is (as Jean implies) a little too sterile for my tastes. I haven't heard the Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso's original of Darwin, but it gets higher ratings here than the 1991 remake and Tangerine Dream's remake of Phaedra (2005) took such a panning from Rico in his review, I haven't dared buy it Shocked
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 06:03
There is an exception to this I will make... when a band plays an entire album as a live set and releases that as a live album. That's pretty cool.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 06:16
Originally posted by darqDean darqDean wrote:

It hasn't really worked so far, modern realisation of old albums lack *something*, I don't know whether that's due to modern production techniques, the artists desire to 'tinker' with the original or simply the lack of spontaneity that was present in the studio during the first recording. For alternative versions I'll stick with live albums.
 
The Enid's In The Region of the Summer Stars (side 2) is limp by comparison to the original and Eloy's recreation of some of their earlier tracks on Chronicles I & II is (as Jean implies) a little too sterile for my tastes. I haven't heard the Banco Del Mutuo Soccorso's original of Darwin, but it gets higher ratings here than the 1991 remake and Tangerine Dream's remake of Phaedra (2005) took such a panning from Rico in his review, I haven't dared buy it Shocked

I haven't heard the remake of "Phaedra", but I have heard the remake of Edgar Froese's "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale". if "Phaedra" was remade anything like that, beware! the remake of "Epsilon" is horrible; Froese totally ruined the atmosphere by adding lots of sequencers


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 06:20
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:


I haven't heard the remake of "Phaedra", but I have heard the remake of Edgar Froese's "Epsilon in Malaysian Pale". if "Phaedra" was remade anything like that, beware! the remake of "Epsilon" is horrible; Froese totally ruined the atmosphere by adding lots of sequencers
Confused You don't mess with perfection.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:14
Originally posted by WalterDigsTunes WalterDigsTunes wrote:

Besides, to re-record the music is to remove it from its original historical context and suddenly shove it somewhere it doesn't belong. To me, that's a pointless exercise that offends the craftsmanship, ingenuity and freshness of the initial project




Re-mastering on the other hand, if done sympathetically to the original album can work wonders without losing (for want of a better word) the "feel" of the source material.

Jimmy Page, for example has done a great job over the years remastering the original led Zeppelin albums & this process (to my ears anyway) reached a peak with last years issue of the remastered 'The Song Remains The Same'... to put that into (again, personal) context - when 'How The West Was Won' came out, its quality knocked the original 'TSRTS' into a cocked hat... when 'Song' was re-released last year, it soared head & shoulders over 'HTWWW' - the remaster really does show LZ at their absolute peak.

BNow if only JP would re-master the live album he released a few years ago with The Black Crowes...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:32
Dream Theater did a live cover of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.
I know some people don't like it...saying Floyd and DT shouldn't mix.(Bah Stereotypes)
But i thought it was pretty cool...Petrucci does an excellent job with the solo's and the original guitar sounds...most part of it was on sync.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:37
Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

I wish most modern albums could sound like the old ones. Confused


I'm glad they don't. Think about it ... if modern albums sounded just like the old ones, wouldn't that be quite boring?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:50

In general old classics shouldn't be touched apart from some remastering to improve the clarity. I don't see anything wrong with the production on Trilogy, CTTE or Fragile. Compare the sound of Fragile to Talk which is all computerised and see which is better!

Admittedly Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot aren't great, perhaps the forthcoming reissues will improve things.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:52
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

I wish most modern albums could sound like the old ones. Confused


I'm glad they don't. Think about it ... if modern albums sounded just like the old ones, wouldn't that be quite boring?
 
There is an exception to this I will make... when a band plays an entire album as a live set and releases that as a live album. That's pretty cool.
 
Yep and that's why bands should make the effort to bring change to the familiar tunes when played live, IMHO.


Edited by Dick Heath - June 27 2008 at 07:53
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 27 2008 at 07:59
Originally posted by Dick Heath Dick Heath wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Kotro Kotro wrote:

I wish most modern albums could sound like the old ones. Confused


I'm glad they don't. Think about it ... if modern albums sounded just like the old ones, wouldn't that be quite boring?
 
There is an exception to this I will make... when a band plays an entire album as a live set and releases that as a live album. That's pretty cool.
 
Yep and that's why bands should make the effort to bring change to the familiar tunes when played live, IMHO.
that and they are probably sick to the back teeth of them anyway - how many times does Pete Townsend want to play My Generation in one lifetime.
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