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suitkees

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Points: 8897

Posted: December 01 2021 at 14:15

^ Thanks. The citation allowed me to find the article in question. This is a UK research about the implications of the Delta variant and the implications of vaccination, based on the premise that especially the younger generations were not that much included in the vaccination programs. And I prefer conclusions over selectively picked citations that arrange the ideology of the quoter...

The Lancet wrote:

Our findings help to explain how and why the delta variant is being transmitted so effectively in populations with high vaccine coverage. Although current vaccines remain effective at preventing severe disease and deaths from COVID-19, our findings suggest that vaccination alone is not sufficient to prevent all transmission of the delta variant in the household setting, where exposure is close and prolonged. Increasing population immunity via booster programmes and vaccination of teenagers will help to increase the currently limited effect of vaccination on transmission, but our analysis suggests that direct protection of individuals at risk of severe outcomes, via vaccination and non-pharmacological interventions, will remain central to containing the burden of disease caused by the delta variant.

So, it is better to get vaccinated, to get your booster injection, to wear masks, etc. etc. etc. because even the vaccinated can transmit the virus, even when the risk (of more or less severe consequences) is minor compared to the unvaccinated. Everything that has been suggested before. Unfortunately, obtuse persons refuse to take it as a given and refuse to adopt the appropriate behaviour to diminish the spread of the virus, causing many many avoidable deaths.

The razamataz is a pain in the bum

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: December 01 2021 at 13:08

suitkees wrote:

Well, I don't think there's an issue with linking to a Lancet article, so please give it. I'd like to read it.

omphaloskepsis wrote:

All those channels you refer to are not my information channels and I know that public channels here in Europe are much less subordinated to the "Grand Capital" than in the USA, and I agree with you that we have to be very circumspect regarding Big Pharma. But, when it comes to solutions, whether we like it or not, they are sometimes part of it. Let's not obnubilate this reality with a blind opposition to what might be - pragmatically - the best solution...

I'll link the article, if a moderator gives me permission. I don't want to be a disruptive force. However; last time I posted the link, the moderator deleted the entire thread.

I'm totally for people who want a vaccination...getting a jab.

Why should someone be coerced into getting a jab? It's their body, their risk. It's nobody else's business, but theirs.

As long as your vaccinated, under 75 years-old, with no comorbidities, the odds of you dying from Covid ( if you get it) are less than 1 in a million.

The Lancet Medical Journal article said word for word and I quote,

"Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts."

If the above is true, then I see no need to coerce people into taking the jab. It you want it, get it. If you do not want the jab, you take the risk...and it's your business.

Moderators, Can I post a link to the article? The Lancet is the most respected Medical Journal in the World.

Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 13:10

suitkees

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Posted: December 01 2021 at 12:49

Well, I don't think there's an issue with linking to a Lancet article, so please give it. I'd like to read it.

omphaloskepsis wrote:

I'm shocked that people trust and defend Big Pharma, government, and the media. Pfizer paid the biggest fine ( 2.3 Billion Dollars!) in World history. Pfizer has been caught in criminal acts many times. Pfizer gave Joe Biden over $380,000 dollars last year. CNN, NBC, CBS, and many other Media companies take hundreds of millions of dollars from Pfizer. CNN news is brought to you by Pfizer. Attack the media-not me- they're lying to you. Or haven't you noticed?

The razamataz is a pain in the bum

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: December 01 2021 at 12:07

omphaloskepsis wrote:

Far be it from me to mislead people. Let the people interpret the Lancet Medical Journal article for themselves.

My interpretation and big takeaway? Double Vaccinated people can give covid to double vaccinated people.

That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves for themselves... and not other people.

I didn't read the Lancet article, but going from a statement like "double vaccinated people can give covid to double vaccinated people" to "That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves for themselves... and not other people" shows that you have no sense of logic: the first statement does not lead logically to your conclusion. It is just your very awkward translation of it and contributing - once more - to misinformation about vaccination and covid in general.

We all know that the better vaccines protect, statistically speaking, over 90% of the vaccinated people and that contamination is diminished about 10 times compared to non-vaccinated people. This does, thus, not exclude that vaccinated people can contaminate other people, but the risks are significantly lower. You translate this significantly lower risk into "so contamination is possible, hence there's no use to vaccinate". That is just not the conclusion you can make from what you yourself stated here. I have more severe words to qualify this kind of reasoning, but I will abstain from using them just now.

[/QUOTE]

Everybody in the world knows that a covid positive person can give an unvaccinated person Covid. That's not news. What is news? That Double Vaccinated people often carry as high a Covid virus load as unvaccinated people. Read the article. Double vaccinated people give double vaccinated people covid.

Perhaps you should look up the Lancet article on Covid, that the moderators do not want you to see. Then, you would know that contamination is NOT diminished anywhere near 10 times compared to non-vaccinated people. The article suggests the opposite. The viral load for both groups is similar.

I never said there is no use to vaccinate. I said word for word, "That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves for themselves... and not other people."

Say, you are a 12 year old without any comorbidities. Your risk of dying of covid is so low that they have a better chance of drowning. The risk of dying because of the vaccination is greater than dying of covid for children. So why should a child get a vaccination?

According to the CDC, 95% of all covid deaths have comorbidities. People die WITH covid. Not necessarily BECAUSE of covid. The CDC does not count old age as a comorbidity. The average age of all covid deaths in America is over 80 years-old.

I submit that it makes more sense to offer vaccinations to anyone who wants one. I submit that old people and people with comorbidities should have easy access to vaccines.

Why should there be a vaccine mandate? President Biden said the odds of a vaccinated person being admitted to the hospital because of covid is 1 in 160,000. The odds of dying are significantly less. I submit that if someone does NOT want a vaccination, then they should not be coerced in any way. They should have free access to vaccinations and boosters shots. But there should be no coercion!

My Body...my choice. Your body...your choice.

I'm shocked that people trust and defend Big Pharma, government, and the media. Pfizer paid the biggest fine ( 2.3 Billion Dollars!) in World history. Pfizer has been caught in criminal acts many times. Pfizer gave Joe Biden over $380,000 dollars last year. CNN, NBC, CBS, and many other Media companies take hundreds of millions of dollars from Pfizer. CNN news is brought to you by Pfizer. Attack the media-not me- they're lying to you. Or haven't you noticed?

Please don't put words that I never said into my mouth. I wrote what I mean. Nothing more.

Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 12:15

suitkees

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Posted: December 01 2021 at 10:47

^ That so-called doctor you refer to - and it is not the first time that you quote very dubious sources - is very much known for his disinformation practices: The New York Times even dared the headline "The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online" to continue to state that "Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines."

omphaloskepsis wrote:

Far be it from me to mislead people. Let the people interpret the Lancet Medical Journal article for themselves.

My interpretation and big takeaway? Double Vaccinated people can give covid to double vaccinated people.

That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves for themselves... and not other people.

We all know that the better vaccines protect, statistically speaking, over 90% of the vaccinated people and that contamination is diminished about 10 times compared to non-vaccinated people. This does, thus, not exclude that vaccinated people can contaminate other people, but the risks are significantly lower. You translate this significantly lower risk into "so contamination is possible, hence there's no use to vaccinate". That is just not the conclusion you can make from what you yourself stated here. I have more severe words to qualify this kind of reasoning, but I will abstain from using them just now.

The razamataz is a pain in the bum

CosmicVibration View Drop Down

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Points: 1364

Posted: December 01 2021 at 10:13

Federal Judge Blocks Biden’s Vaccine Mandate

President Biden’s edict that all health care workers in the U.S. must be vaccinated with at least one COVID-19 shot by December 4, 2021, has been stopped by a U.S. federal judge in Louisiana.

In handing down his stop-order, Judge Terry A. Doughty said, “There is no question that mandating a vaccine to 10.3 million health care workers is something that should be done by Congress, not a government agency” … “It is not clear that even an act of Congress mandating a vaccine would be constitutional.”

In other news, an appeals court has also blocked Biden’s mandate to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to impose vaccines on businesses with 100 employees or more, after a dozen states sued to stop it.

https://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2021/12/01/federal-judge-blocks-biden_1920_s-vaccine-mandate.aspx

Edited by CosmicVibration - December 01 2021 at 10:14

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:30

Lewian wrote:

omphaloskepsis wrote:

Lewian wrote:

omphaloskepsis wrote:

The article pointed out fully vaccinated people catch covid as often as non-vaccinated people.

No it didn't, and you know it.

Then it will OK if I post the link?

That's not for me to decide. For sure in my view it's better to post a link than to misrepresent what's in it (as you already had done in the other thread).

Far be it from me to mislead people. Let the people interpret the Lancet Medical Journal article for themselves.
My interpretation and big takeaway? Double Vaccinated people can give covid to double vaccinated people.

That fact suggests, folks should only vaccinate themselves for themselves... and not other people.

Update on Progarchives Censorship- Without being given a reason, another Thread of mine was deleted. I published an article and an Australian TV news report about three Australian teenagers escaping an Australian quarantine camp. It's public news. Why was it deleted?

Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 07:20

Lewian

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Points: 14242

Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:15

omphaloskepsis wrote:

Lewian wrote:

omphaloskepsis wrote:

The article pointed out fully vaccinated people catch covid as often as non-vaccinated people.

No it didn't, and you know it.

Then it will OK if I post the link?

That's not for me to decide. For sure in my view it's better to post a link than to misrepresent what's in it (as you already had done in the other thread).

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:05

Lewian wrote:

omphaloskepsis wrote:

The article pointed out fully vaccinated people catch covid as often as non-vaccinated people.

No it didn't, and you know it.

Then it will OK if I post the link?

Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 05:06

Lewian

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Points: 14242

Posted: December 01 2021 at 05:03

omphaloskepsis wrote:

The article pointed out fully vaccinated people catch covid as often as non-vaccinated people.

No it didn't, and you know it.

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: December 01 2021 at 04:21

CosmicVibration wrote:

That being said it astounds me that on a site that promotes musical (and in turn intellectual) diversity that some choose to harbour such regressive and toxic attitudes.

I consider my political views passionately progressive, for the betterment off all. As far as I can tell my stance on most issues lean far left as well. I could be wrong about certain things and am open minded to listen to any line of reasoning otherwise.

I like a healthy debate that focuses on the subject. Even if it gets a little heated it’s ok if there is no personal character assassination. Some for whatever reason engage in such attacks. This not only derails the issue, but many choose not to engage. Maybe that’s their tactic, if you’re on shaky ground, make the opposition leave or have the thread closed.

There are a few that no longer post, probably due to verbal abuse. I pointed this out and started firing back mainly because of it. First few times I got attacked I let it go and tried to redirect the conversation back on track. This proofed futile…

Personally, I don’t mind the banter… I may even be a little sadistic because I think it’s fun. Even though I have very thick skin and think it’s fun, I would never initiate it.

It’s a shame some will not post, and threads got closed because of the BS.

[/QUOTE]

So true. The moderators recently erased a thread I started. I quoted a new article by the most respected Medical Journal in the World- "The Lancet". I posted a link to the article, so folks could read the Medical study. The article pointed out fully vaccinated people catch covid as often as non-vaccinated people.

Edited by omphaloskepsis - December 01 2021 at 04:25

CosmicVibration View Drop Down

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Posted: November 29 2021 at 13:14

Rottenprogger wrote:

I've stayed out of this thread (only lurked) for awhile because my politics are very progressive and left leaning that trying to engage with certain people here would be a fool's errand.

That being said it astounds me that on a site that promotes musical (and in turn intellectual) diversity that some choose to harbour such regressive and toxic attitudes.

Personally, I don’t mind the banter… I may even be a little sadistic because I think it’s fun. Even though I have very thick skin and think it’s fun, I would never initiate it.

It’s a shame some will not post, and threads got closed because of the BS.

Easy Money View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

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Posted: November 25 2021 at 21:51

progaardvark wrote:

That being said it astounds me that on a site that promotes musical (and in turn intellectual) diversity that some choose to harbour such regressive and toxic attitudes.

Indeed, very well said. It isn't worth the stress to engage with trolls.

No stress here, trolls aren't to be taken seriously, they're even amusing sometimes.

progaardvark View Drop Down

Collaborator

Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams

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Posted: November 25 2021 at 19:37

That being said it astounds me that on a site that promotes musical (and in turn intellectual) diversity that some choose to harbour such regressive and toxic attitudes.

Indeed, very well said. It isn't worth the stress to engage with trolls.

----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag
that's a happy bag of lettuce
this car smells like cartilage
nothing beats a good video about fractions

Forum Senior Member

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Posted: November 25 2021 at 08:29

omphaloskepsis wrote:

JD wrote:

omphaloskepsis wrote:

Yes indeed. They broke the law and the jury found them guilty of breaking the law. Because these guys attempted a citizen's arrest and killed Arbery, the citizen's arrest law in Georgia no long exists.

I predicted they would be guilty, because they broke the Georgia law on citizen arrests. According the Georgia law, you can only make a citizen's arrest if you have recent ( like the last hour or so) evidence that the person committed a crime. You can't arrest someone for last week's crime.

Wrong again...you have to be in the presence of the offense. Not just know of it after the fact.

Pay closer attention.

No, your wrong about me making an error. Of course you have to be present...that's how you know the person committed a crime.

However, if you were in the presence of an offense/crime a week ago...you could not perform a citizen's arrest today. However; if you were in the presence of the offense/crime an hour ago, then you can perform a citizen's arrest today.

Why don't you make an original argument or point? Instead, you hide in the reeds sniping, misinterpreting other's arguments. You can do it JD. Write something original.

This is why I don't engage with a lot of this stuff. Too much 'made up' facts on your part.

And I quote...

2010 Georgia Code

Title 17 Criminal Procedure

Chapter 4 - Arrest of Persons

Article 4 - Arrest By Private Persons

§17-4-60 - Grounds for Arrest

A private person may arrest on offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Not within an hour. I call bull5hit on you.

Edited by JD - November 26 2021 at 10:06

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Atavachron View Drop Down

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Posted: November 24 2021 at 19:23

rushfan4 wrote:

Agreed, but the way our courts have decided some cases made me expect a different outcome. If this had occurred in Florida they would probably have been cleared under the "stand your ground" concept like Zimmerman.

Luckily juries decided these cases, not courts, and even the SYG law might not have saved these Redneck vigilantes from hunting down some guy for trespassing on a construction site.

Southern man, better keep your head
Don't forget what your good book said
Southern change gonna come at last
Now your crosses are burning fast
Southern man

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy

Easy Money View Drop Down

Special Collaborator

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Joined: August 11 2007
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Posted: November 24 2021 at 19:13

^ Welcome and feel free to add whatever you want. My politics are fairly open minded, I like to hear and consider different viewpoints. There is one thing I'm pretty consistent on though, I think donald trump is toxic and disgusting.

Rottenprogger View Drop Down

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Posted: November 24 2021 at 17:48

I've stayed out of this thread (only lurked) for awhile because my politics are very progressive and left leaning that trying to engage with certain people here would be a fool's errand.

That being said it astounds me that on a site that promotes musical (and in turn intellectual) diversity that some choose to harbour such regressive and toxic attitudes.

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: November 24 2021 at 17:07

SteveG wrote:

Even I have to laugh at how polarized these two killings are. Fox is still on the Rittenhouse case today, while CNN is having a marathon about the Arbery convictions. It's really sad as one has nothing to do with the other, but that's our world now.

I agree. Tis true.

Just because I agree with both verdicts does not mean I think Rittenhouse is a hero. On the other hand, I do not believe that America is flooded with white supremists itching to murder minorities.

Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 24 2021 at 17:12

omphaloskepsis View Drop Down

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Posted: November 24 2021 at 17:04

JD wrote:

Wrong again...you have to be in the presence of the offense. Not just know of it after the fact.

Pay closer attention.

No, your wrong about me making an error. Of course you have to be present...that's how you know the person committed a crime.

However, if you were in the presence of an offense/crime a week ago...you could not perform a citizen's arrest today. However; if you were in the presence of the offense/crime an hour ago, then you can perform a citizen's arrest today.

Why don't you make an original argument or point? Instead, you hide in the reeds sniping, misinterpreting other's arguments. You can do it JD. Write something original.

Edited by omphaloskepsis - November 24 2021 at 17:54

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