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Sean Trane 
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20656
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 Posted: May 26 2020 at 13:32 |
 rogerthat wrote:
So I understand where MZBarney's complaint is
coming from, the problem is only that he overstates it and completely
dismisses Floyd's genius in putting together great studio albums,
something that they were far better at than any of their prog peers.
The other bands just wrote a bunch of compositions they loved and
released it (Lamb being the only exception and for which Banks and Rutherford duly rewarded Gabriel by firing him).
That is why they don't have a particular point of view or story to
tell. But musically, they have more depth than Floyd's 'classic' phase
and I would likewise say the first two PF albums had more depth than the
70s classic phase. |
Uh!!.... 
Peter
was leaving the band in his head before the end of the recording the
album, he announced mid-tour he was leaving, returned for a while after
being busy on a William Friedkin project, then finally left for good. 
Jeffro wrote:
So their genius is reinventing themselves and yet sounding the same?
I'm not a Floyd hater, quite the opposite, but you're not making much sense. |
I spoke earlier in this thread of a nuance, and obviously it's not evident to some.
You can reinvent yourself musically at every new œuvre and still keep your soul and your sound.
M27Barney wrote:
Crisi.
I AM not a Genesis fanboy. Am I? I do not listen to any Genesis after
1977...and at the moment I prefer Yes...and as for spelling...what law
of physics says I can't like a band if I cannot spell their name?
Eh? |
in highschool, I once wrote a
bunch of bands I loved on the carboard of one of my binders, and write
purposely Jimmy Hendrickx to make people jump out (and scream that I was
a fraud). They could still admit to the Jimmy part, but I really had to
show them a torn Belgian phonebook page, filled with people called
Hendrickx, and none ever called Hendrix.
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RaphaelT
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2005
Location: Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1453
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 12:07 |
Gee, that was rejuvenating. I feel like it is 1995 again and I'm in high school arguing with my friend. With whom we stayed friends all that time. What are we discussing is mainly history. Did Roger sue his colleagues and lost? Yes, he did. Thirty five years ago. Did David carry the torch since? Yes, he did. Pink Floyd recorded two not-as-good-as-the-old-ones albums and ceased to record and tour in 1995. Twenty five years ago. Did they rejoin for one act? Yes, they did so in 2005. Fifteen years ago. Was the Reunion of the band possible (regardless with or without Waters)? Well, it cannot happen since Rick's death. Twelve years ago. And yet, Roger reconciled with Nick, and they have even performed with David for one rendition of Comfortably Numb in 2011. Pink Floyd is simply a history now. We are discussing two guys in their seventies. How much time they are left ahead? Some fifteen, twenty, let's say even thirty years. What's the use of playing the oh-so-long-ago lost and won wars again and again? Instead, more mature would be remembering the common twenty years of great history together and just let Roger Waters have his place on the bands site. Just because of what he did in good old days. Forget the bad, remember the good. Unless, of course, something happened between these two gentlemen in recent days, which we are not aware of. Or, maybe, Mr Gilmour wants to prove again that he is the real Pink Floyd and is preparing some new stuff of the band. If it is so, he can take my money in advance.
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yet you still have time!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 11:30 |
Cristi wrote:
SteveG wrote:
You would have enjoyed that part of the sixties Jose! 
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that was religious narrow-mindedness and fanaticism. |
oh, it wasn't that bad. They only burned their albums. There was a time when the Christians would have actually burned the Beatles.
Edited by SteveG - May 26 2020 at 11:31
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 11:28 |
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^ christians have form for burning rival cultural books way before the nazis did...The burning of the library at alexandria was their biggest crime...set western civilisation back nearly 1800 years....we may have put a man on the moon in the dark ages, rather than bend our feckin knees to iron age ideas...
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 11:11 |
Cristi wrote:
SteveG wrote:
You would have enjoyed that part of the sixties Jose!
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that was religious narrow-mindedness and fanaticism. |
So this is where Utopia got the idea for their Swing to the Right album....
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 11:01 |
Cristi wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Too many floyd fanboys getting their knickers in a twist...floyd are in my second division, they are never going to threaten Genesis, Yes, ELP, Focus, IQ, Flowerkings, Spocks Beard, Glasshammer...ad nauseum... |
funny that you criticize fanboys when you are the ultimate Genesis fanboy here, you may have even ruined Genesis for a few people.
I would not compare Floyd with ELP or Yes, apples and oranges, Genesis as well.
BTW, IQ is definitely influenced by Floyd
Why do you misspell names of bands you say are favorite of yours?
Oh, and Glass Hammer is one of the most tedious (to put it gently) retro-prog bands I've ever heard.
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Crisi. I AM not a Genesis fanboy. Am I? I do not listen to any Genesis after 1977...and at the moment I prefer Yes...and as for spelling...what law of physics says I can't like a band if I cannot spell their name? Eh?
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 46835
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 10:30 |
SteveG wrote:
You would have enjoyed that part of the sixties Jose!
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that was religious narrow-mindedness and fanaticism.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 10:14 |
You would have enjoyed that part of the sixties Jose!
Edited by SteveG - May 26 2020 at 10:17
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 18059
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 10:04 |
SteveG wrote:
A few things surprise me about this thread. The first is the conflation with an egotist and a bad person. The two are not mutually inclusive. Secondly, the declaration of a few to liking Water's music even though they do not like Waters' personality, politics, etc., as if one was somehow dependent on the others. I've stated in the past that Stephen Stills and I are far from friends, but that never precluded me from enjoying his work as a musician or enjoying his music. This difficulty of separating the two has always baffled me. If more people were aware of the true nature of many of their musical heroes I'm afraid that they would burn all of their previously favorite artist's recordings, like the way Beatles' records were burned in the US in the mid sixties. |
Without reading thru all the posts, has anyone said they don't listen to PF due to Waters political, religious or people views? Maybe I missed some of that if so.
But yea in general I agree, I think a lot of artists have questionable issues that might push someone to apply gas to their records. As I said I prefer an artist pose questions and then let the listener make up their own minds without nudges from the artist.....that to me is more entertaining and thought provoking. I thought burning Beatles records was sacrilegious??? WTH!!!
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Cristi
Special Collaborator
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams
Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 46835
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 09:03 |
M27Barney wrote:
Too many floyd fanboys getting their knickers in a twist...floyd are in my second division, they are never going to threaten Genesis, Yes, ELP, Focus, IQ, Flowerkings, Spocks Beard, Glasshammer...ad nauseum... |
funny that you criticize fanboys when you are the ultimate Genesis fanboy here, you may have even ruined Genesis for a few people.
I would not compare Floyd with ELP or Yes, apples and oranges, Genesis as well.
BTW, IQ is definitely influenced by Floyd
Why do you misspell names of bands you say are favorite of yours?
Oh, and Glass Hammer is one of the most tedious (to put it gently) retro-prog bands I've ever heard.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9182
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 08:21 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Too many floyd fanboys getting their knickers in a twist...floyd are in my second division, they are never going to threaten Genesis, Yes, ELP, Focus, IQ, Flowerkings, Spocks Beard, Glasshammer...ad nauseum... |
Yessssss, I agree that all of those band are a bit nauseating compared to Floyd's 70's brilliance. 
Floyd was the most brilliant and progressive band, becayse they questionned and redefined themselves with every new album. I mean not one of their albums sounds like another, and after one second, you know immediately on which album you are on, even with the patchy OBC. Floyd was about ideas, rather than technique or virtuosity.  I mean which other 70's or post 70's band can claim that they totally reinvented themselves from one album to the next?
Floyd was progressive because they progressed with each new album, not like many who simply wallowed endlessly in the little niche they'd created for themselves, until forced to exit the niche because it had become stale. |
And yet, you can easily know you are listening to Pink Floyd. |
that's their genius too.  |
what about Strawbs? Obviously not in the same league but I think their peak period, and beyond, was pretty different from album to album while still being recognizable. You could even prepend their first 2 albums, the first being sunny 60s pop and the second a very pastoral folk record
From the Witchwood was pastoral folk rock with symphonic outbursts courtesy of RW Grave New World was symphonic folk Bursting at the Seams was folk rock with pop and prog aspects Hero and Heroine was mad proggery Ghosts was not hugely different but did blend back in some more acoustic textures Nomadness was straightforward rock pretty much, but is a much more musically diverse album than any of them Deep Cuts was slick pop
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ExittheLemming
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Penal Colony
Status: Offline
Points: 11420
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 07:07 |
SteveG wrote:
A few things surprise me about this thread. The first is the conflation with an egotist and a bad person. The two are not mutually inclusive. Secondly, the declaration of a few to liking Water's music even though they do not like Waters' personality, politics, etc., as if one was somehow dependent on the others. I've stated in the past that Stephen Stills and I are far from friends, but that never precluded me from enjoying his work as a musician or enjoying his music. This difficulty of separating the two has always baffled me. If more people were aware of the true nature of many of their musical heroes I'm afraid that they would burn all of their previously favorite artist's recordings, like the way Beatles' records were burned in the US in the mid sixties.
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Agreed. It's very important to separate the man from his work/art. Best example I can think of is classical composer Richard Wagner, whose rabid anti-semitism makes him a terrible person but does not diminish his music. Speaking of terrible people, it's interesting to note that Hitler adored the music of Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninov, who were all listed as 'degenerate art' by the Nazi regime.  |
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Jeffro
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 29 2014
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 2201
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 06:44 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Dellinger wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Too many floyd fanboys getting their knickers in a twist...floyd are in my second division, they are never going to threaten Genesis, Yes, ELP, Focus, IQ, Flowerkings, Spocks Beard, Glasshammer...ad nauseum... |
Yessssss, I agree that all of those band are a bit nauseating compared to Floyd's 70's brilliance.
Floyd was the most brilliant and progressive band, becayse they questionned and redefined themselves with every new album. I mean not one of their albums sounds like another, and after one second, you know immediately on which album you are on, even with the patchy OBC. Floyd was about ideas, rather than technique or virtuosity. I mean which other 70's or post 70's band can claim that they totally reinvented themselves from one album to the next?
Floyd was progressive because they progressed with each new album, not like many who simply wallowed endlessly in the little niche they'd created for themselves, until forced to exit the niche because it had become stale. |
And yet, you can easily know you are listening to Pink Floyd. |
that's their genius too. |
So their genius is reinventing themselves and yet sounding the same?
I'm not a Floyd hater, quite the opposite, but you're not making much sense.
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We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.
My face IS a maserati
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 04:04 |
A few things surprise me about this thread. The first is the conflation with an egotist and a bad person. The two are not mutually inclusive. Secondly, the declaration of a few to liking Water's music even though they do not like Waters' personality, politics, etc., as if one was somehow dependent on the others. I've stated in the past that Stephen Stills and I are far from friends, but that never precluded me from enjoying his work as a musician or enjoying his music. This difficulty of separating the two has always baffled me. If more people were aware of the true nature of many of their musical heroes I'm afraid that they would burn all of their previously favorite artist's recordings, like the way Beatles' records were burned in the US in the mid sixties.
Edited by SteveG - May 26 2020 at 04:12
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 03:53 |
Dellinger wrote:
And yet, you can easily know you are listening to Pink Floyd. |
Because Floyd repeats motifs, hooks, licks, chord progressions, percussion patterns, you name it, a lot. There is an element of continuity between Money and Sheep even if the songs are overall very different. Likewise Time and the second half of Dogs/Pigs. And with all due respect, their musicians did not have the galactic talent of some of their prog peers to be able to disguise this fact through their playing. Contrast this with Genesis who have an essential Genesis sound and template that they were content to use in album after album from Trespass all the way to W&W. But each album was an exploration of this template in a different way and presented different elements in terms of the meat.
So I understand where MZBarney's complaint is coming from, the problem is only that he overstates it and completely dismisses Floyd's genius in putting together great studio albums, something that they were far better at than any of their prog peers. The other bands just wrote a bunch of compositions they loved and released it (Lamb being the only exception and for which Banks and Rutherford duly rewarded Gabriel by firing him). That is why they don't have a particular point of view or story to tell. But musically, they have more depth than Floyd's 'classic' phase and I would likewise say the first two PF albums had more depth than the 70s classic phase.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 03:48 |
Sean Trane wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Too many floyd fanboys getting their knickers in a twist...floyd are in my second division, they are never going to threaten Genesis, Yes, ELP, Focus, IQ, Flowerkings, Spocks Beard, Glasshammer...ad nauseum... |
Yessssss, I agree that all of those band are a bit nauseating compared to Floyd's 70's brilliance.
Floyd was the most brilliant and progressive band, becayse they questionned and redefined themselves with every new album. I mean not one of their albums sounds like another, and after one second, you know immediately on which album you are on, even with the patchy OBC. Floyd was about ideas, rather than technique or virtuosity. I mean which other 70's or post 70's band can claim that they totally reinvented themselves from one album to the next?
Floyd was progressive because they progressed with each new album, not like many who simply wallowed endlessly in the little niche they'd created for themselves, until forced to exit the niche because it had become stale.
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I wouldn't say WYWH was much of a reinvention from DSOTM. Animals from WYWH, yes, likewise, Wall from Animals.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15926
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 02:38 |
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Oh yes, Floyd did change form album to album - may as well be done by a different band each time, yet you just know it’s Pink Floyd.
........and thank’s Richard, for the phenomenal Farfisa organ work......distinctive and other-worldly and defines that period Floyd to a tee.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20656
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 01:36 |
M27Barney wrote:
Aye like status quo...👍 |
Yup,indeed just like for Quo, fir Glass Hammer and Spock's Beard, you got one album, you got them all...
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 09 2006
Location: Swinton M27
Status: Offline
Points: 3136
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 01:00 |
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Aye like status quo...👍
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20656
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Posted: May 26 2020 at 00:58 |
Dellinger wrote:
Sean Trane wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
Too many floyd fanboys getting their knickers in a twist...floyd are in my second division, they are never going to threaten Genesis, Yes, ELP, Focus, IQ, Flowerkings, Spocks Beard, Glasshammer...ad nauseum... |
Yessssss, I agree that all of those band are a bit nauseating compared to Floyd's 70's brilliance.
Floyd was the most brilliant and progressive band, becayse they questionned and redefined themselves with every new album. I mean not one of their albums sounds like another, and after one second, you know immediately on which album you are on, even with the patchy OBC. Floyd was about ideas, rather than technique or virtuosity. I mean which other 70's or post 70's band can claim that they totally reinvented themselves from one album to the next?
Floyd was progressive because they progressed with each new album, not like many who simply wallowed endlessly in the little niche they'd created for themselves, until forced to exit the niche because it had become stale. |
And yet, you can easily know you are listening to Pink Floyd. |
that's their genius too. |
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