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People who disown Marillion without Fish are...?

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Poll Question: What's their case?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [2.08%]
1 [2.08%]
4 [8.33%]
11 [22.92%]
11 [22.92%]
1 [2.08%]
17 [35.42%]
2 [4.17%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 14:35
"People who disown Marillion without Fish..."

may be pescetarian.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dellinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2020 at 14:29
I do mostly prefer Fish era Marillion, but they did some essential music afterwards too, anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Man With Hat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2020 at 21:31
The drop in quality is noticeable, especially the longer they continue. But people like what they like.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2020 at 19:34
Originally posted by Chaser Chaser wrote:

I loved Marillion with Fish. I've got all the Fish era albums. When Fish left I was very sad, but I bought the new album from the band, and the solo album from Fish.

Both of them disappointed me.

The chemistry was gone. Fish had the vocal sound I loved, with that Scottish leer, and the intelligent lyrics, and the concepts where themes crossed over between albums.

Combine that with the great musicianship of the band, especially Steve Rothery's guitar, and the result was something special.

I have albums from the Hogarth era, but they just don't hold the same appeal for me.

The Hogarth albums are fairly standard rock. They're not particularly proggy. The musicianship is still good, but, for me, the magic died when Fish left.


I'm so with ya on this one. H era just seems to sleepytime lackluster. Not really the vocalist's fault but rather the band went for dream pop inspired almost AOR vibes. A big yawn for me. Fish solo albums were better but yes that magic chemistry that made the first four Marillion albums so great was lost for me too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2020 at 19:15
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Voted for: Right to like and dislike anything!
Never liked Marillion regardless of the lineup. That said, the Genesis comparisons are increasingly tiresome and completely wide of the mark. Despite it being an unflinching confrontation with his own alcoholism, the self mythologizing artwork of Clutching at Straws was the final 'straw' for me i.e. Fish actually thought he was part of a conversation that included Dylan Thomas, Truman Capote, Lenny Bruce, John Lennon and Jack Kerouac. The only thing he has in common with most of that company is the liver ravaging bar tab. It's completely understandable that people starved of Prog in the 80's were more than ready to lower the bar to accommodate the false dawn afforded by Neo.

If Neo is epitomised by Marillion, IQ, Pendragon, Arena, Pallas and the like, I think they raised the bar over most 70s prog.




You know there's a 'delete post' option right?Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2020 at 19:13
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

... The only thing he has in common with most of that company is the liver ravaging bar tab. It's completely understandable that people starved of Prog in the 80's were more than ready to lower the bar to accommodate the false dawn afforded by Neo.

Hi,

I'm not sure that it is saying a whole lot about anyone or anything ... like others did not have that same drinking, or drugging problem?

I'm not sure that it is right to judge people for the way they are ... and the art they created. In history of the arts, there are many more of them that drank, and drugged, than there are Christian saints hanging around talking like they are the fire of some god out there!

FISH's last couple of albums are very good, and Marillion would never have the guts to even consider "The Rose of Damascus", which is in my estimation much more important than a lot of the material that Marillion did, which I like, but all of a sudden is very hollow and cheap by comparison ... 

I don't know what is right or wrong many times, but dishonoring an artist because he/she drinks, or smokes or is gay ... just doesn't seem right to me ... heck, might as well trash Edgar Allan Poe! AND so many others!


As is the norm you haven't understood a single word of the post to which you are responding. The artwork that adorns Clutching at Straws implies (or it can be inferred) that Fish should be considered an artistic equal to the other celebrated artists on the sleeve. In that company Derek Dick wouldn't even make it as an understudy to their designated driver.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2020 at 21:44
Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Voted for: Right to like and dislike anything!
Never liked Marillion regardless of the lineup. That said, the Genesis comparisons are increasingly tiresome and completely wide of the mark. Despite it being an unflinching confrontation with his own alcoholism, the self mythologizing artwork of Clutching at Straws was the final 'straw' for me i.e. Fish actually thought he was part of a conversation that included Dylan Thomas, Truman Capote, Lenny Bruce, John Lennon and Jack Kerouac. The only thing he has in common with most of that company is the liver ravaging bar tab. It's completely understandable that people starved of Prog in the 80's were more than ready to lower the bar to accommodate the false dawn afforded by Neo.

If Neo is epitomised by Marillion, IQ, Pendragon, Arena, Pallas and the like, I think they raised the bar over most 70s prog.


Raised the bar over most 70s prog? LOL Prog rock actually had the semblance, however faint, of progressivity in the 70s. It actually differentiated itself from the run-of-the-mill rock and roll of the time. The bands you spat out are pale imitations. Like a Casio keyboard's stale simulation of actual instruments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2020 at 17:35
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

Voted for: Right to like and dislike anything!
Never liked Marillion regardless of the lineup. That said, the Genesis comparisons are increasingly tiresome and completely wide of the mark. Despite it being an unflinching confrontation with his own alcoholism, the self mythologizing artwork of Clutching at Straws was the final 'straw' for me i.e. Fish actually thought he was part of a conversation that included Dylan Thomas, Truman Capote, Lenny Bruce, John Lennon and Jack Kerouac. The only thing he has in common with most of that company is the liver ravaging bar tab. It's completely understandable that people starved of Prog in the 80's were more than ready to lower the bar to accommodate the false dawn afforded by Neo.

If Neo is epitomised by Marillion, IQ, Pendragon, Arena, Pallas and the like, I think they raised the bar over most 70s prog.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2020 at 09:02
Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:

... The only thing he has in common with most of that company is the liver ravaging bar tab. It's completely understandable that people starved of Prog in the 80's were more than ready to lower the bar to accommodate the false dawn afforded by Neo.

Hi,

I'm not sure that it is saying a whole lot about anyone or anything ... like others did not have that same drinking, or drugging problem?

I'm not sure that it is right to judge people for the way they are ... and the art they created. In history of the arts, there are many more of them that drank, and drugged, than there are Christian saints hanging around talking like they are the fire of some god out there!

FISH's last couple of albums are very good, and Marillion would never have the guts to even consider "The Rose of Damascus", which is in my estimation much more important than a lot of the material that Marillion did, which I like, but all of a sudden is very hollow and cheap by comparison ... 

I don't know what is right or wrong many times, but dishonoring an artist because he/she drinks, or smokes or is gay ... just doesn't seem right to me ... heck, might as well trash Edgar Allan Poe! AND so many others!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ExittheLemming Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 20:10
Voted for: Right to like and dislike anything!
Never liked Marillion regardless of the lineup. That said, the Genesis comparisons are increasingly tiresome and completely wide of the mark. Despite it being an unflinching confrontation with his own alcoholism, the self mythologizing artwork of Clutching at Straws was the final 'straw' for me i.e. Fish actually thought he was part of a conversation that included Dylan Thomas, Truman Capote, Lenny Bruce, John Lennon and Jack Kerouac. The only thing he has in common with most of that company is the liver ravaging bar tab. It's completely understandable that people starved of Prog in the 80's were more than ready to lower the bar to accommodate the false dawn afforded by Neo.


Edited by ExittheLemming - December 22 2020 at 20:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 18:41
Brave was Marillion's finest hour, so I'm going with option 12: IOU6PENCE.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 17:17
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

I don't care for Marillion either with Fish or minus the ichthyological accouterments.  
 
I don't care for Marillion with or without Fish either. I prefer Walter Trout. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 16:58
I don't care for Marillion either with Fish or minus the ichthyological accouterments.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 16:39
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Earl of Mar Earl of Mar wrote:

I like a lot of the H era. Even HIE! However it will never be the same as I was early on the Marillion case and saw them on each of their first UK tours. To me the best Marillion albums are SFAJT and MP. The H era has its moments but it's a different band really. Marbles and Brave are fine but to me they pale next to the early stuff. Grendel and Market Square Heroes is my kind of Marillion.

MP? I don't know this abbreviation. Confused
I just Googled "SFAJT" and discovered it's an abbreviation for "Script for a Jester's Tear" and I  think "MP" was meant to be "Misplaced Childhood", but the "P" was misplaced. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 16:12
Originally posted by Earl of Mar Earl of Mar wrote:

I like a lot of the H era. Even HIE! However it will never be the same as I was early on the Marillion case and saw them on each of their first UK tours. To me the best Marillion albums are SFAJT and MP. The H era has its moments but it's a different band really. Marbles and Brave are fine but to me they pale next to the early stuff. Grendel and Market Square Heroes is my kind of Marillion.

MP? I don't know this abbreviation. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earl of Mar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 15:00
I like a lot of the H era. Even HIE! However it will never be the same as I was early on the Marillion case and saw them on each of their first UK tours. To me the best Marillion albums are SFAJT and MP. The H era has its moments but it's a different band really. Marbles and Brave are fine but to me they pale next to the early stuff. Grendel and Market Square Heroes is my kind of Marillion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hercules Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 14:50
When Fish left, I was very sad. I didn't buy the Seasons End album for almost 20 years, which was a massive mistake, because I now think it is (by a small margin over Fugazi) their best album.

I'd just say that anyone who dismisses either era of the band is just.........missing out. Both eras made some brilliant music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 14:45
Option #4 comes closest. My vote would be "Ad hominem" if this were an option.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 14:39
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

When I think of Fish, I think of Chris Squire and Yes - not Marillion. Smile
 
I have a feeling Colin Salmon and Walter Trout may be nicknamed Fish too, not to mention Julian Bream. There's a Plaice for all of them.Smile

Hi,

I really like the last two albums by FISH, and they are in some ways superior to Marillion's effort's.

It's a shame that folks don't take him seriously because he is a very good singer and leader for a band.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mneil1968 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 22 2020 at 13:19
If I'm looking at the word "disown", which is a reality for some folks, I think they are missing out.

I only have gotten into Marillion during the pandemic!  Had heard both eras of the band somewhat over the years, but for some reason never invested much.  Now, I've deeply listened to it all over the past several months, and I have to say I like both eras pretty much equally, but with a slight edge to the H era, mainly just 'cause there's so much more of it.  The four Fish era albums were outstanding, but there's no way they would have created 18 outstanding albums with that lineup!  Hogarth era have produced (in my opinion) at least 4 outstanding albums (Brave, AOS, Marbles, FEAR), others that are nearly outstanding (Seasons, HIE, TSE, Sounds), and none that are terrible, in my opinion.  That's a lot of outstanding music!  If you don't like the H era, no problem!  If you're avoiding it just because it's "not Fish", that's kinda stupid. Wink
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