Steve Howe (post-CTTE) is rubbish

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote:   Unfortunately I've started to get irritated by Howe's playing on it, and now I can barely listen to it without grinding my teeth and drumming my fingers in agitation.

We all really give a damn.

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: I knew things had started to go wrong on Topographic Oceans - gone were the delicate atmospheric touches, the ghostly sounds, the meaningful attack, the sheer gorgeous melody, and in their place came....inane practice sessions of relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on anti-depressants.  Then things, got really bad.  He started to peek through the layers of my second favourite Yes album, Relayer - already suffering from the lack of Wakeman, but beautifully balanced and pitched with no instruments really dominating - the Howe effect started to ruin it for me.  Utterly pointless fret runs replaced any melody..

If all you get from post CTTE Yes is "inane practice sessions of relentless arpeggios and cramming notes a al Maria Carey on anti-depressants" then you are pathetic. Perhaps your ears are fooling you. Maybe you have some cohesive 20-minute compositions you would like to share?

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: whilst the SOUND of his guitar is just bloody awful.  My First Guitar Amp.  Ear-melting shrill and totally at odds to the brilliant ambience created by Moraz and Squire.

It's called a 50's Telecaster into a really teched out Showman or Twin. But the minimoog isn't shril? Nor the optigon? Give me a freakin' break.

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: THEN, oh God, I NEVER thought it could happen - I started in small doses, noticing his inanity on Going For The One - his guitar runs, his pointless overworked licks, his sheer audacity in standing outside the immense vision of the rest of the band.

To quote somebody else here; you are a fool. I have this great video of Yes in the studio in 1977 working on Going for the One. Hearing the songs go from crude and rough to professional and mastered is an amazing thing in and of itself. You are childish, unappreciative, and lack the freedom necesarry to grasp this kind of "post CTTE " music in the first place. 

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: In short, I hope this is contentious as the recent topics have been a little glib, but Howe represents everything that is WRONG with prog guitarists.

And you represent everything that is wrong with retarded internet-drones. Why dont you pick up a copy of Tormato and take some mushrooms eh?

Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: alan_pfeifer wrote: Wrath_of_Ninian wrote: alan_pfeifer wrote: I really like Relayer, but moreso for White.  But that's another post.  It can be tough at times to deal with his more techinical playing on some songs, espescially Gates. However, that Guitar line at the "Soon" portion of the song saves it. Yes, White is immense - indeed, the whole band (bar Howe) are immense - its a great album.  Howe does have a couple of good moments on Relayer, like the one you mention, but his sound is still hellish.  Why is he so high up in the mix??  By the way, I think what 'saves' it are Moraz's keyboards and the beauty of Anderson's voice. I think what had happened was an overblow of egos, mainly starting off at Tales.  Think about it: your'e a guitarist in one of the most successful bands of the time period.  You've just come off a great tour for an album that's been accepted well both criticaly and sales- wise (CTTE).  Who's ego wouldn't be huge after a thing like that? Second, after Tales, Which Howe and Anderson wrote with minimal input from the band, I think the feeling they had on Tales, which was Anderson, Howe and Company, was still there when they went into record Relayer.  As attitudes tend to linger, so do playing styles (IMO) and Howe may have felt Compelled to up the ante on this album (due to the poor reception Tales had) or maybe he wanted to show that he was up there in skill with some of the heavy hitters of Rock music at the time (Page for example). So, in the end, it all comes down to opinion, but I still think that Howe on Relayer, while unpleasant at times, helped to shape relayer into the wonderful album it is. Thats an interesting point about Tales, and I didn't know that.  I'd always thought it was their collective magnificent octopus, and that each member was widely regarded as having reached their creative and performing peaks during the making of it.  Now, when I think about it, Howe's influence is plainly apparent, and perhaps that is the point where it snaps for me.  I also didn't know that Tales was 'poorly received', as you put it.  Was this by Yes fans, critics, or by the public in general?  After the gargantuan success of previous albums I imagine this could do strange things to a guitarist's ego.  I'd also assumed that Howe's 'upping the ante' was down to Wakeman's departure, but perhaps this is not so.  Certainly Howe's performance on Going For The One is marginally more considered, if still unnecessarily complex in places - perhaps there is evidence that we were getting the old Wakeman/Howe trade-off back?

Well, the point on Tales is moreso with critics AND Yes fans (Just look at the variying reviews of the album on the site.  The Wakeman point was new too, hadn't really thought of it that way.

Blacksword wrote: Give me Steve Hackett or Alex Lifeson any day of the week!

Just been digging around & couldn't believe the blasphemy of this thread!!

Steve Howe is a genius-period! This guy has won more awards for his talent than any other prog guitarist you care to mention.FACT! And i'm talking about awards voted for by his contempories not your run of the mill 'fan' awards.

I once met Max Bacon [GTR] & I asked him who was the most talented out of the two Steves? Without hesitation he said 'Howe' Far more accomplished and technically superior.

Lifeson is the Francis Rossi of Prog!

PS. Max Bacon is now singing in working men's clubs as a cabaret singer!

For me Steve Howe goes fromn brilliant to irritating. I have never really liked his chosen guitar 'sound' I find to obtrusive alongside the other instruments even in their best work, which IMO is CTTE. I dont feel they ever surpassed that album.

Howes playing on subsequent albums did lack melody and often sounded sloppy and ill rehrearsed. There were a few moments, and I have to say I like the intro to 'Turn of the century' , but generally I would rather listern to most other guitarists if full flight. It doesn't follow that I would rather listern to any other band than Yes, though.

There were moments on the Drama album, where his playing goes right through me in quite an unpleasant way!!

Give me Steve Hackett or Alex Lifeson any day of the week!

Jim Garten wrote: Wrath Of Ninian - I 100% disagree with you, and still feel Howe is one of the few remaining truly progressive-rock guitarists out there... That said, I wholeheartedly defend your right to your opinion (however incorrect it may be ), and let's face it - it makes a change from knocking ELP, now doesn't it?

Certainly does.  In fairness, I have taken a bit of bashing in this thread ( think I'm currently about 11-2 down!! ) - but it has been in good spirits, and I have learned a few things.  Its nice to hear people actually TALK about why they like/dislike something rather than just ticking a box. 

Really?

All righty, then!