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oliverstoned 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
 Posted: February 16 2011 at 09:40 |
Yes it's among the good ones imo, here's my studio album top list: 1 If i could/In the land 2 Waterloolily 3 Caravan 4 For girls |
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oliverstoned
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 26 2004 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6308 |
Posted: February 16 2011 at 09:31 |
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Let's try a forgotten Canterbury gem:
John G. PERRY (Caravan's violonist), "Sunset Wading" (1976) A concept album on the theme of nature, with some slight reminiscences of Gong, Clearlight 
(See my review) Edited by oliverstoned - February 17 2011 at 13:11 |
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jean-marie
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 27 2010 Location: FRANCE Status: Offline Points: 2585 |
Posted: February 16 2011 at 07:17 |
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i'm amazed no one mentionned the first caravan album,nice album though it's a beginning
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
Posted: February 16 2011 at 07:14 |
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First heard 'In the Land...' about 5 years ago. Never been inspired to buy anything else by them.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
Posted: February 16 2011 at 07:09 |
To me one of the reference points of 'Canterbury', the quirky very English song, sung in English not American.
While I have 2 or 3 favourite Caravan albums, If I Could Do.. is way out in front - btw the remastered version is very good. I've thought for a long time it was the one album by Caravan, that attempted to take on Soft Machine (of immediate post -psychedelic/pre- avant fusion period,e.g. as heard on Volume 2 and Live At Paradiso), because it is slightly more jazzy than the others. I think, as Robert Wyatt discovered in Matching Mole, that Dave Sinclair was not the best of improvisors and prefered to stick mostly with the rehearsed arrangements - hence limiting Caravan's options in that direction.The premier Canterbury bands that evolve out of Wilde Flowers, Caravan and Soft Machine then musically went on quite different paths -which largely define the boundaries of the Canterbury style of music.
Interesting to see Richard Sinclair critically praised for his 'English' jazz singing in the last years - as has Robert Wyatt
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The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS.
CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18558 |
Posted: February 15 2011 at 13:45 |
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Hi,
I would not say that the Canterbury folks that made up Hatfield and the North and all the other permutations were necessarily Frank Zappa fans. I would prefer to say that they took their music seriously enough, but also decided to keep some of their own humor, which of course was visible in Frank's work ... which kinda helped ... it meant ... we can play serious music and have fun while at it -- instead of the conventional jazz rigor mortis, which Soft Machine had already busted up with the famous ABC's!
But Frank and his work was well known in London ... specially since even the likes of John Lennon had spoken highly of it already! Edited by moshkito - February 15 2011 at 13:46 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Guests
Forum Guest Group 
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Posted: February 04 2011 at 16:51 |
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So far, I like everything I'm hearing by Hatfield And The North. Is it true that they were heavily influenced by Frank Zappa? If so, that's probably why I like them since I'm also a big fan of Zappa.
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daslaf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 03 2009 Location: Chile Status: Offline Points: 290 |
Posted: February 04 2011 at 16:07 |
You really should, I'm not an expert on canterbury either, but this is a wide genre and missing bands like Hatfield and the North just because you didn't like Third and Caravan would be a huge mistake... If you like Hatfield & National I recommend you to check out some of Alan Gowen's related bands, and if you're into jazz-fusion, Bruford is a cool mixture of fusion and canterbury...
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But now my branches suffer
And my leaves don't bear the glow They did so long ago |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 04 2011 at 15:28 |
That would be advisable - Hatfield's two albums and National Health's first two are essential. Caravan (IMO) also has better albums - try If I Could one of these days at the least.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18558 |
Posted: February 04 2011 at 15:17 |
The difference is that when they got to "For Girls", they made a concentrated effort to be more of a solid rock band, instead of a poppygolucky something or other band. Pye has stated that the difference, was the Bass Player who was well versed academically in music and tried to get the band to get tighter and more detailed and rehearsed, than they were before, when some of the music could be said ... just filler in various spots.
And the result of that, is one of the best orchestrated albums of all time ... Caravan and the New Sinfonia. Many folks don't seem to like this, but it does show, how symphonic the music design in Caravan really is ... and how well their music fits this kind of thing. Sadly, it is not considered "progressive", when in the end, what they did was one of the gutsiest and toughest things to do ever ... something that rock music was not exactly known for at the time ... which was a level that stood way higher than just popular music, which of course, Caravan showed right away ... this is not a bunch of kids not knowing what they are doing!
The earlier you go with Caravan, the more "pop" music it gets. However, they did not exactly let go of the song mentality with pop innuendos, and eventually became very good even for satirizing that style very well -- which was a touch they had from before, which was very Brittish and the Kinks, The Who, and others had indulged in quite well and successfully.
In the end, when you listen to 15 of Caravan's albums, the only thing you can say is ... it's very good music, and never mind the "progressive" label or any other silly description, because in the next album they might not be that progressive when they have a different set of musicians with them.
I don't think, that a band like Caravan, really had any "musical" aspirations, other than just ... do their thing, and do it well! That they became some sort of a progressive darling is actually weird, because only one or two of the albums would be considered that, by rigid standards of definition. But I seriously doubt that any one of us would not say some very nice things about a group of people ... that were very good musicians, and gave us some incredible music -- that we still remember.
One last thing ... that Caravan concert on DVD at Nearfest ... I have to tell you that towards the end I had tears ... because there was so much music of theirs that I have loved for so many years! ... and at that point, you and I could never give a damn if it was whatever it was.
It's great music!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 07 2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 13382 |
Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:48 |
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I think Grey and Pink is a
 album.
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Rasvamakkara
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 01 2009 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 127 |
Posted: February 04 2011 at 04:40 |
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At first I didn't like In the Land of grey and Pink that much either, but now it's actually one of my favourite albums. The main problem was that I just couldn't get into Nine Feet Underground. Then, maybe a year after buying the album, I gave it another chance and absolutely fell in love with it. Something just clicked right that time. Nine Feet Underground is now one of my favourite epics of all time and I listen to it frequently. I also adore Winter Wine and I Don't Know It's Name. The other songs are also a lot of fun. Don't give up on the album completely, it may grow on you with time, it certainly did for me.
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
Posted: February 04 2011 at 00:56 |
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all good, both are masterpieces :-) but In The land just nailed it!
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Guests
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Posted: February 03 2011 at 22:49 |
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"In The Land of Gray and Pink" is decent in my view, except for the songs "Love to Love You" and "Golf Girl," which I don't like. Otherwise, everything else sounds good to my ears. Its not a masterpiece like many people say, but its pretty solid, and seems like a nice Canterbury gateway drug. I haven't heard any of Caravan's other albums, though.
I was less impressed with the Soft Machine's "Third" album, which I was excited about and listened to the same day I got the Caravan album, but "Third" just sounded too messy for my tastes. Caravan does a good job of creating interesting melodies in their best songs, like "Winter Wine." I find myself gravitating more towards Zeuhl and some of the more esoteric French Prog (Yang and Moving Gelatine Plates) rather than pure Canterbury, but I'm a Canterbury neophyte so I suppose I should give a listen to things like Hatfield And The North at least once before writing off the genre altogether. |
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LinusW
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 27 2007 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 10665 |
Posted: February 03 2011 at 22:01 |
Yup. That is your next step. Then try some National Health. |
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 16 2006 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 31169 |
Posted: February 03 2011 at 20:03 |
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dr prog
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 25 2010 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2532 |
Posted: February 03 2011 at 20:00 |
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Grey and Pink craps all You
Winter wine, In the land of grey and pink and Alias the word are great tracks. Don't think anything on the previous album reach this level Edited by dr prog - February 03 2011 at 20:00 |
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jean-marie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 27 2010 Location: FRANCE Status: Offline Points: 2585 |
Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:34 |
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as said by vompati for girls who grow is a very good album, you can try cunning stunts wich is a strong album imo though you will not have the richard sinclair voice anymore, and it's good to have a listen to some live records like live at the faifield halls 1974 and uk tour 1975..later releases like blind dog and unauthorised breakfast are very good too. about waterloo lily i don't know ,i like it but the new key player mainly use electric piano and not organ and i miss it in the caravan sound
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zravkapt
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 12 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6451 |
Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:32 |
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I am also surprised that so many consider Grey & Pink to be their best album.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 8831 |
Posted: February 03 2011 at 17:17 |
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I bought and listened to In The Land Of Grey and Pink, and could not really get into it, and the first track called "Golf Girl" was so bad, well, it ended being a real turn off, and i am not interested in anything else by them.
Sorry, folks, but that is the experience i had in a nutshell. Edited by presdoug - February 03 2011 at 17:18 |
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Caravan - First Impressions...
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jean-marie wrote: