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Why does everyone hate The Battle Of Epping Forest
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Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

For those who think Epping is too wordy, what should they think about Supper's Ready or the whole The Lamb, which still needed a full two pages to explain the plot
At least Epping doesn't need that... It's easily understood by itself

This is my argument as well. I think many dislike TBoEF because it's a LOT in the course of 8 minutes, where as Supper's Ready is very spread out with lots of musical padding. Lamb has breaks, too. TBoEF is non-stop Gabriel full-force lyrical/whimsy hammering, lol.

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For those who think Epping is too wordy, what should they think about Supper's Ready or the whole The Lamb, which still needed a full two pages to explain the plot
At least Epping doesn't need that... It's easily understood by itself
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When the limos return for their final review, it's all through'
- all they can see is the morning goo.
"There's no-one left alive - must be draw."
So the Blackcap Barons toss a coin to settle the score.

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The gangland references are based on the kray twins in tbe sixties I think, after the krays were banged up for the murder of Jack "The hat" McVicar there was a power vacuum...so the battle began...
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^ sometimes less is more? Is that what you tell your wife?
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.


the A-side is rather flawed IMHO

Not a fan of Watcher (the intro last way too long), Friday is relatively good (but the band has yet to find its ground with those rock operas - Epping Forest will be much better), Timetable is really not good. Only Can Utility is ultra-great and I even find it superior to Supper, because it condenses everything they can do in less than 6 minutes.
 
I don't rate Epping Forest of course (aside from the first 2 minutes) so 'better' is entirely subjective while Timetable is something special to me. I remember listening to it after the London bombings and it seemed as poignant and relevant as any song written to me. It really is that good and terribly underrated.

However I agree that Can Utility is brilliant although not sure it outclasses Suppers Ready. I mean where is the Apocalypse section? You could have 15 minutes of drivel preceding it and it would still be better than 99% of prog epics. It's actually funny how many neo prog bands have tried to copy it and got nowhere near LOL


Hey Richard,

Reread my sentence observing the brackets. I was comparing Epping to Friday, nit to Timetable. Wink

- I don't hate TT, it just doesn't do anything for me, like Harlequin or Absent Friends. All three are inoffensive.
- Harold is a bit annoying, though, but nothing like MFM, which seems to be some fireside ballad aimed at seducing a woman and wouldn't even succeeed as it's really not good. Can't believe Tony & Peter let that one go through and ruin an otherwise excellent,cohesive and coherent album.
- Totally agree with 9/8 (though I would rate 12/10)Big smile. They never got better. However I must say that the eggs are a bit of a omelette afterwards. As such, it's OK, but sounds a bit annoying after such a peak - as if anything could survive the Apocalypse.


 

I did get that and still my point stands. Saying Epping Forest is better than Friday is just an opinion. I like Friday as its comments on all too familiar theme of the seventies in the UK - wildcat strikers and union domination. London based gangland wars was not what people remember about the seventies. Yes it is a thing and the current TV series Gangs Of London might be the best thing since GOT but nevertheless (for me and imo) Epping Forest is too long and not a very interesting track. It outstays its welcome but a good 6 minutes at least. Sometimes less is more!
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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Singing along is always fun......
.....and Harold demure, who’s still not quite sure, fires acorns from out of hithling 🤪

here come the cavalry

and this is when I do my little Tony Banks air keys, with all his noodly arpeggios and scales Big smile

INSERT MAGICAL, PBS-ESQUE SYNTH LEAD HERE.

I absolutely love that part, lol.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Singing along is always fun......
.....and Harold demure, who’s still not quite sure, fires acorns from out of hithling 🤪


here come the cavalry

and this is when I do my little Tony Banks air keys, with all his noodly arpeggios and scales Big smile
Handing out bread and jam just like any picnic........listen to Phil’s tricky drumming around this part. Thinking about it, this track is awesome really.

Hackett has some great parts in it too, especially right at the end.
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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Firing acorns from out of his sling...Gabriel putting on a camp voice...to be fair to Genesis...being posh boarding school boys wouñd have given them less gritty insight that the punk bands bred on the streets with violence a common theme....but lyrically BoEF is as good as it gets fir me anyway...
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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Singing along is always fun......
.....and Harold demure, who’s still not quite sure, fires acorns from out of hithling 🤪


here come the cavalry

and this is when I do my little Tony Banks air keys, with all his noodly arpeggios and scales Big smile
Handing out bread and jam just like any picnic........listen to Phil’s tricky drumming around this part. Thinking about it, this track is awesome really.
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Singing along is always fun......
.....and Harold demure, who’s still not quite sure, fires acorns from out of hithling 🤪

here come the cavalry

and this is when I do my little Tony Banks air keys, with all his noodly arpeggios and scales Big smile
Porg for short. My love of music doesn't end with prog! Feel free to discuss all sorts of music with me. Odds are I'll give it a chance if I haven't already! :)
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^ Singing along is always fun......
.....and Harold demure, who’s still not quite sure, fires acorns from out of hithling 🤪

Edited by Tom Ozric - April 24 2020 at 13:48
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I quite enjoy the song.  It's actually my second favorite on the album, behind Firth of Fifth.  And ahead of both Moonlit Knight and Cinema Show.  I actually like every song on the album, including More Fool Me (although that's kind of down on the list behind the epics and mid-length songs).  And in spite of the wordiness of the song, I actually know all the lyrics and can "sing" along with it. 
I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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Well, the Genesis pot is stirred again. The porridge of grumpiness is partaken by the strange youngsters of the prog world...who listen without the context...but Fear not....Trump insists that injecting yourself with bleach will prevent you from dying from covid19...coz you will be dead within minutes of the injection but your death will not be in the covid stats....thankful for her fine fare discount...Tess cooperates...
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Originally posted by pancho253 pancho253 wrote:

This is stupid, it's one of the best genesis tracks.

so this is your first post? Must be so proud...
There are better ways to disagree with things posted here.
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This is stupid, it's one of the best genesis tracks.
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Hi,

Some of the "historical" and "information" on the song is cool ... I enjoyed that part ... but the likes and dislikes? No wonder progressive music can't get ahead! 
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.


the A-side is rather flawed IMHO

Not a fan of Watcher (the intro last way too long), Friday is relatively good (but the band has yet to find its ground with those rock operas - Epping Forest will be much better), Timetable is really not good. Only Can Utility is ultra-great and I even find it superior to Supper, because it condenses everything they can do in less than 6 minutes.
 
I don't rate Epping Forest of course (aside from the first 2 minutes) so 'better' is entirely subjective while Timetable is something special to me. I remember listening to it after the London bombings and it seemed as poignant and relevant as any song written to me. It really is that good and terribly underrated.

However I agree that Can Utility is brilliant although not sure it outclasses Suppers Ready. I mean where is the Apocalypse section? You could have 15 minutes of drivel preceding it and it would still be better than 99% of prog epics. It's actually funny how many neo prog bands have tried to copy it and got nowhere near LOL


Hey Richard,

Reread my sentence observing the brackets. I was comparing Epping to Friday, nit to Timetable. Wink

- I don't hate TT, it just doesn't do anything for me, like Harlequin or Absent Friends. All three are inoffensive.
- Harold is a bit annoying, though, but nothing like MFM, which seems to be some fireside ballad aimed at seducing a woman and wouldn't even succeeed as it's really not good. Can't believe Tony & Peter let that one go through and ruin an otherwise excellent,cohesive and coherent album.
- Totally agree with 9/8 (though I would rate 12/10)Big smile. They never got better. However I must say that the eggs are a bit of a omelette afterwards. As such, it's OK, but sounds a bit annoying after such a peak - as if anything could survive the Apocalypse.




Edited by Sean Trane - April 24 2020 at 01:42
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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I just dont get what's so offensively bad about More Fool Me

It completely kills the flow and aesthetic of the record. It's like a B-side Phil Collins solo track, in the middle of arguably their finest recording. It's that smidge of jelly that gets into the peanut butter and ruins the rest of the jar, despite those two ingredients being mixed in the end anyway. I'm actually amazed they, the band and producers, left that song in, when you hear how finnicky they are about details and cutting, etc.

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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Don't feel badly, I quite enjoy "Time Table" on Foxtrot, which earns me great malice amongst Genesis fans! 

"Epping Forest" is decent, but not a masterpiece.  Tony Banks does some great synth leads on that one.


I never knew people were supposed to not like Time Table, I do find it rather beautiful.
 

that is indeed a beautiful song. Foxtrot is an album I don't find any fault with although Watcher Of The Skies tends to be the slightly controversial track for some reason.


the A-side is rather flawed IMHO

Not a fan of Watcher (the intro last way too long), Friday is relatively good (but the band has yet to find its ground with those rock operas - Epping Forest will be much better), Timetable is really not good. Only Can Utility is ultra-great and I even find it superior to Supper, because it condenses everything they can do in less than 6 minutes.


 
I don't rate Epping Forest of course (aside from the first 2 minutes) so 'better' is entirely subjective while Timetable is something special to me. I remember listening to it after the London bombings and it seemed as poignant and relevant as any song written to me. It really is that good and terribly underrated.

However I agree that Can Utility is brilliant although not sure it outclasses Suppers Ready. I mean where is the Apocalypse section? You could have 15 minutes of drivel preceding it and it would still be better than 99% of prog epics. It's actually funny how many neo prog bands have tried to copy it and got nowhere near LOL
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