"5 star" albums and masterpiece.

O666 wrote: I cant undrestand why you want to say There is no masterpiece. I believe many of musics or draws or books are masterpiece and its not about taste. Maybe I love them or not. Masterpiece is masterpiece!!!!!!!!

Sorry guys. I want to confess. I MADE MISTAKE. I shouldn't write like this and my hands up!!!  I know many of you dont agree to "absolute" opinions and you right. One of my friends warn me and when I thought about his warning, I see he right.

Edited by O666 - September 02 2010 at 05:43

Exactly

This should consider some respects.

Masterpiece and five stars' viewpoints. As for it, the part where the subjectivity mixes with objectivity might be included. And, the characteristic of PA joins this part.

It will be judged whether the person who listened to the album as a result is a masterpiece. And, general information and knowledge will mix there of course.

When the review is submitted, I often mix the characteristic of PA.

Review for sales promotion
Album and information on musician

This is deliberately investigated. It recognizes it as work as Reviewer.

However, I also often submit a subjective review. However, the subjective opinion cannot be submitted if restrained to work and the sales promotion of the review. And, it is also impossible to unite all the reviews safely in three-star.

Knowledge and information might often be necessary for us. And, the experience concerning music forms everything. Perhaps, the listener who listened to the album should judge the final assessment.

The discussion concerning ranking the album is often done. However, we think should not the restraint to this discussion. The musician and the album are always offering good music with the technology that always exceeds our category. We should love music.

 

 

 

If a site has guidelines (not all do), one should try to follow them to the best of their ability, so that readers have a reasonably consistent idea of what ratings mean.  Most non-members perusing reviews are not going to look at the member profile to see a person's "personal definition" of the 5 stars.  5 star ratings should be very rare and entail much more than just "an album you like", as requested by the site pop-up explanation window. 

Some are naturally going to thumb their nose and give 5s to everything they like.  I think many readers eventually just ignore writers who they notice overuse the 5, I know I do, and I've had others tell me they do.  If the rating is used excessively, it loses the impact/value it should have to a reader.  When I notice a reviewer uses the 5 very rarely, then it has some meaning to me when they actually do pull the trigger. 

Collabs especially should try to follow the site guidelines as their ratings are weighted. 

EnderEd wrote: 3 does not really = "meh" on ProgArchives. Here's the ProgArchives official rating designations: Essential: a masterpiece of progressive rock music Excellent addition to any prog rock music collection Good, but non-essential Collectors/fans only Poor. Only for completionists I prefer leaving 5-star for "Masterpiece" rather than for an album that I really love and think is awesome. Is there an objective (vs subjective) criteria for defining Masterpiece? I think so, but many on ProgArchives would have a hard time with that. For example, I love almost anything and everything by Coheed & Cambria and Rush (except for their latest rehashes, Caravan/BU2B) -- But I would never give their most recent albums 5-stars, cause I know that I know they are not Masterpieces. On the other hand, I cannot stand Edvard Munch's painting The Scream, but would list it as a Masterpiece nonetheless.

I cant undrestand why you want to say There is no masterpiece. I believe many of musics or draws or books are masterpiece and its not about taste. Maybe I love them or not. Masterpiece is masterpiece!!!!!!!!

Vompatti wrote: Logan wrote: Vompatti wrote: Masterpiece is: the most outstanding work of a creative artist or craftsman an outstanding achievement wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn I'd give 5 stars to such an album. But there is such a level of subjectivity. What is outstanding to one may be poor to another, and what is considered the best work of the act by one may not be for another. Even amongst official Prog Reviewers (people who were chosen, partially because of their analytical abilities and significant music knowledge, as well as their outstanding powers of expression/ writing skills) you will find great variance in opinion on what is masterpiece.  One may rate it five, another may give the same album a one or two.  I would also give an album 5 stars that I felt fit that definition. Of course it's subjective. The albums themselves are subjective pieces of art, how could they possibly have an objective value?

And then there's the question of what is art (no I don't need a definition).  One can assign value within frameworks of analysis (one might say that the frameworks you choose to use reflect your biases, however). On the performance level, for instance, one can say that one performer is more technically able than another, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll enjoy the performance more.  Some compositions are more advanced than another, but that doesn't mean you'll enjoy it more.  If my now seven year old daughter composed and played a piece of music on her xylophone and you compared it to a  professional composer/ xylophonist, you would hear a difference in quality (would one be wrong to say that one is objectively better/ more accomplished than the other?  Should she continue practising if there are no objective measures for her artistry, and no real standards of success beyond the subjective level?).  Some might still think her music is art. She did an art class recently, and painted her version of a Modigliani painting.  I think it's amazing, and would call it art, but if I saw a Modigliani and hers in an Art Gallery, and didn't know the background, I would consider hers inferior.  There are models one can utilise to judge music, paintings, novels etc. in a quite objective way. Music is not my background, film is, and there are many ways that I feel that I could judge the artistic, as well as technical merits of a film. But its simple when one thinks in terms of techniques rather than bandies the rather nebulous word "art" around. That said, what may sound badly composed and played to me may be a masterpiece to another, but I don't think one should divorce all objective measurements from the equation. And I would say that the more musically knowledgeable an individual is, the better their analysis will be, as will the determinations of artistic and technical merit.


Edited by Logan - September 01 2010 at 15:46

Nathaniel607 wrote: 5 Masterpiece 4 amazing 3 good 2 alright 1 kind of rubbish 0 appaling

Edited by moshkito - September 01 2010 at 14:21

Masterpiece is:

• the most outstanding work of a creative artist or craftsman
• an outstanding achievement
  wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I'd give 5 stars to such an album.

Masterpiece is a BIG WORD. Yes. Any thing have own definition. I can't say "I only enjoy Kafka's books" because it mean that Kafka write books JUST for enjoy!!! I agree many POP music make for enjoy but we have serious music,books and other "art related" and we must use best words to define our thoughts and senses.Musical products produce for several purposes. Many musicians release songs and albums for money like many writers and ... I dont talk about this kind of music or this side of it. I focus to artistic side of music and I start this topic for this mean. ART is big. I believe many of musics isn't ART. I think many of POP music have good compose, orchestrasion,arrangment and these kind of properties but they make for "enjoy" and "money". I dont think music like " DUN's Eros" made for money!!!  I mean "MAKE" is different to "CREATE" and I talk about CREATE,

I don;t like having the word "masterpiece" in the description (nor the essential or excellent addition attributes that refer to all collections). It's too subjective, and I don't want to rate something a masterpiece, say Yes' Close to the Edge, really high just because others think it a masterpiece. For me, that's a good album, but not that great.  One person's masterpiece can be another's piece of kaka. What's essential to me will not be essential to another.

I look at it a little like this:

5 Stars: An essential album to my collection, and one of my favourites in its category. Also what I consider to be the act's best work (the band's masterpiece, but that is problematic since I can think of cases where acts have releases several albums that I think superb). I might describe the album as sublime, mind-blowing, and or revelatory.

4 Stars: An album I consider really excellent, and a great one for it's category, but one I find sub-sublime. Not a desert island pick.

3 Stars: Good to very good albums of its category.

2 Stars: Mediocre (less than good to quite poor -- for its category)

1 Star: Really bad to I find this definitely poor.  Amongst the dregs of its category.

I think it's important to compare it to the perceived quality of others of its category rather an all of progressive rock (as well as compare it to other albums by the act); however, one could say that masterpiece should transcend category expectations and be essential to any well-rounded progressive music collection rather than just Prog, I'd say).  One person may hate chamber rock (or be unfamiliar with it) and vote a highly thought of album by people who are familiar with such music by, say, Art Zoyd, low, but I think a familiarity with the scenes is important for ratings purposes. With so-called masterpieces, I guess one should be able to say that even if someone will not like the style of music, it deserves respect as amongst the best of its ilk in the rater's opinion, and those who want well-rounded collections (as well as fans of its category) would be advised to hear it.

Sorry if I'm not answering the question, but I wasn't really sure what the question is.

I don't believe in handing out masterpiece status to albums just because they are largely regarded as masterpieces, nor do I believe in penalizing albums because they are obscure. While one can bring in a level of objectivity into ones frameworks of analysis, the ultimate score will be very subjective (most of the time, at least).


Edited by Logan - September 01 2010 at 12:53