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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
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Points: 9869
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 Posted: October 21 2015 at 19:46 |
^^^ I am reading the Tuscany review and it's just chockfull of insights. Things I didn't know. For instance:
Long time poetess/lyricist Betty Thatcher had endured a failed marriage and, by her admission, could only write bitter or regretful lyrics at the end of the nineties
Interesting! Sounds like a reasonable explanation as to why they didn't get her back on board. Sadly Steve's amazing review does not lift my feelings for the album. I like Vento and Azure D' Or more than this one, enough said.
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GKR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 22 2013
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
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Posted: October 21 2015 at 17:15 |
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...aaaaand, habemus the awaited SteveG review for Camera Camera.
I'am listening the album for the first time right now, after reading Steve' review. Interesting experience.
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- From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9173
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Posted: October 20 2015 at 20:27 |
 GKR wrote:
In that pick you look like a young Harrison Ford...
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haven't heard that one before suffice to say I don't look like that anymore 
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GKR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 22 2013
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
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Posted: October 20 2015 at 13:58 |
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In that pick you look like a young Harrison Ford...
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- From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9173
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Posted: October 20 2015 at 13:47 |
SteveG wrote:
Cool pic Ken! Now for the important question...what happened to the poster? 
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sadly, I don't even know how I got it or what happened to it!
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: October 20 2015 at 11:24 |
Cool pic Ken! Now for the important question...what happened to the poster?
Edited by SteveG - October 20 2015 at 11:24
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 20 2015 at 09:46 |
kenethlevine wrote:
Otto9999 wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
It actually rocked, and yet many people saw the pop elements instead and dismissed it as inferior product.
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A message to all melodic rock fans - Who dislike their pop elements please throw the first stone , love them all with all your heart man! 
kenethlevine wrote:
I want to say that, from Prologue to A Song for all Seasons, which is 6 studio albums and 1 live album (?), they were a model of consistency, even more impressively because the last one in that string was their most convincing. |
Well.. OK, mine is the 77' at London's Royal Albert Hall with one of the best orchestras in the world - the Royal Philharmonic  |
I admit that I haven't heard that one. But I meant Carnegie Hall because I think that was the only one that actually appeared in the 1970s |
I too would rank Albert Hall higher than Carnegie Hall. More sloppily recorded but at times, the music simply reaches a whole other level. The RPO seemed to relate to their music better than the New York Philharmonic; IIRC they had spent more time with the band in the run up to the concert.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 20 2015 at 09:44 |
kenethlevine wrote:
well, I leave town for a weekend and I see, to my delight, that the de facto Renaissance appreciation thread has been revived. Aided and abetted by some recent reviews, including a few typically excellent ones by SteveG, and their current tour of the northeastern US (which I will witness on Thursday), and we have our own little revival going on. I want to say that, from Prologue to A Song for all Seasons, which is 6 studio albums and 1 live album, they were a model of consistency, even more impressively because the last one in that string was their most convincing. It actually rocked, and yet many people saw the pop elements instead and dismissed it as inferior product. Most prog bands were losing audience back then anyway, fairly or otherwise. But the more commercially successful groups like Yes, ELP and Tull were able to handle this without much trouble, and, in the case of YES, return to the singles market in a big way.
Groups like Renaissance and Strawbs are still in demand today because, unlike Gentle Giant and VDGG, they didn't depend almost solely on a dwindling prog audience. The count among them folk, classical, and melodic rock fans, some of whom just don't "get" prog at all. I am going to the Renaissance concert Thursday with a friend who is more of an R&B fan but, as a native New Yorker, he acquired the taste for Renaissance during their heyday. Back in 1982 on the Camera Camera tour, I turned several guys in my dorm onto Renaissance, and they delivered live. Most of them were drawn by Annie like mariners to a siren, and "Ashes are Burning" became their sort of mantra, almost 10 years after its initial release.
I'm the one on the top left, taken after the show! Early 1982
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Nice pic! That highlighted sentence again brings out how there has been a critical re-evaluation of Renaissance. The band, except Sullivan who named Ashes as his favourite album,always refer to Scheherazade-SFAS as their best phase. Song for all Seasons did well commercially in USA and even better, of course, in UK. So the way it is rated now on PA (or anywhere else, like say RYM) is at odds with how it was received in its time. By the by, VDGG are still going along fine and have been more prolific in the studio than most of the other biggies of the 70s; certainly more so than Ren. Gentle Giant collapsed basically due to the Shulmans' lack of interest in reviving the band.
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Meltdowner
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 25 2013
Location: Portugal
Status: Offline
Points: 10281
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Posted: October 20 2015 at 09:40 |
I still don't know Renaissance well enough to pick a favourite, some of their classic albums are missing in my collection 
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9173
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 21:58 |
Otto9999 wrote:
kenethlevine wrote:
It actually rocked, and yet many people saw the pop elements instead and dismissed it as inferior product.
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A message to all melodic rock fans - Who dislike their pop elements please throw the first stone , love them all with all your heart man!
kenethlevine wrote:
I want to say that, from Prologue to A Song for all Seasons, which is 6 studio albums and 1 live album (?), they were a model of consistency, even more impressively because the last one in that string was their most convincing. |
Well.. OK, mine is the 77' at London's Royal Albert Hall with one of the best orchestras in the world - the Royal Philharmonic |
I admit that I haven't heard that one. But I meant Carnegie Hall because I think that was the only one that actually appeared in the 1970s
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Otto9999
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 02 2015
Location: Anywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 88
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 21:14 |
Removed due to PA's deliberated act of deleting threads as alleged featuring negative behaviour posts towards others.
Edited by Otto9999 - October 31 2015 at 11:21
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Otto9999
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 02 2015
Location: Anywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 88
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 21:06 |
Removed due to PA's deliberated act of deleting threads as alleged featuring negative behaviour posts towards others.
Edited by Otto9999 - October 31 2015 at 11:22
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 9173
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 20:07 |
well, I leave town for a weekend and I see, to my delight, that the de facto Renaissance appreciation thread has been revived. Aided and abetted by some recent reviews, including a few typically excellent ones by SteveG, and their current tour of the northeastern US (which I will witness on Thursday), and we have our own little revival going on. I want to say that, from Prologue to A Song for all Seasons, which is 6 studio albums and 1 live album, they were a model of consistency, even more impressively because the last one in that string was their most convincing. It actually rocked, and yet many people saw the pop elements instead and dismissed it as inferior product. Most prog bands were losing audience back then anyway, fairly or otherwise. But the more commercially successful groups like Yes, ELP and Tull were able to handle this without much trouble, and, in the case of YES, return to the singles market in a big way.
Groups like Renaissance and Strawbs are still in demand today because, unlike Gentle Giant and VDGG, they didn't depend almost solely on a dwindling prog audience. The count among them folk, classical, and melodic rock fans, some of whom just don't "get" prog at all. I am going to the Renaissance concert Thursday with a friend who is more of an R&B fan but, as a native New Yorker, he acquired the taste for Renaissance during their heyday. Back in 1982 on the Camera Camera tour, I turned several guys in my dorm onto Renaissance, and they delivered live. Most of them were drawn by Annie like mariners to a siren, and "Ashes are Burning" became their sort of mantra, almost 10 years after its initial release.
I'm the one on the top left, taken after the show! Early 1982
Edited by kenethlevine - October 19 2015 at 20:10
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 18:11 |
Otto9999 wrote:
SteveG wrote:
Strangely, part of the Brit's reason for never fully excepting the mark ll Renaissance, despite the hit with Northern Lights, is a preference for the mark l band featuring Keith Relf and Jim McCarty. |
Man it sounds soooo logical.. Northern Lights is THE 70's hit, it would have been perfect to me with the participation of the two ABBA Angels on it .. Who dares to disagree please cast the first stone. Strangely? OK then, can someone please tell me WHY Illusion's second and s/t album was not released in the States?? Because this sure was a big blow to Jim McCarty and Keith's sister, as well as to the whole band. |
No stones to throw here. Renaissance was able to do one of the most difficult of all rock music tricks with Northern Lights. The absolutely flawless and equal mixture of pop and prog, and were hard pressed to repeat this virtual hat trick, but actually knew better and followed it up with the catchy but less impressive Jekyll and Hyde. Even the band knew that lighnting never strikes twice.
Edited by SteveG - October 19 2015 at 19:15
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 20697
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 17:05 |
Gone obscure.......I'm not even sure what that means. I never thought of them as obscure then or now. They certainly never achieved the fame as the other big prog bands, and we all know who they are, but there are probably many reasons for that. One could say the same thing about VDGG..or Gentle Giant... (just examples btw..)...they were always obscure in my book and very few people I knew back in the day regularly listened to them. While I don't play the newer Renaissance albums (after 1980) , never bought them, I still regularly play the first 7 or 8.
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Otto9999
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 02 2015
Location: Anywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 88
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 16:45 |
Removed due to PA's deliberated act of deleting threads as alleged featuring negative behaviour posts towards others.
Edited by Otto9999 - October 31 2015 at 11:23
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Otto9999
Forum Groupie
Joined: September 02 2015
Location: Anywhere
Status: Offline
Points: 88
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 16:39 |
Removed due to PA's deliberated act of deleting threads as alleged featuring negative behaviour posts towards others.
Edited by Otto9999 - October 31 2015 at 11:23
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O666
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 20 2009
Location: TEHRAN-IRAN
Status: Offline
Points: 2619
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 16:06 |
rogerthat wrote:
O666 wrote:
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It's perfectly clear now, thanks! Actually, your example of Gentle Giant is a good one to bring home the point of the OP. Gentle Giant's highest charting album in the US was Free Hand at no.48. Lower than Novella and on par with Scheherazade. Also, none of GG's other albums enjoyed the same success in US whereas from Scheherazade through to Song for All Seasons Renaissance had a good run. They also had a top 10 single in UK and GG had none. But GG are today regarded as a big prog rock band (somebody even argued vehemently for them to be included in the Big Five/Six of prog) and Renaissance aren't. Rather than saying they have gone obscure, what has happened is there has been a sharp critical re-evaluation of their work which has proved unfavourable to them. I wonder what the reasons for that could be. Think having a chick as the front of a melodic, 'square' prog rock band makes some people not want to try them at all. I know that I only hopped in for the ride because I looked at the band's page on prog archives and decided the lady got the job for her singing and not her other attractions....oops! Just one theory I am throwing out in jest, don't mean offence to anybody. But that's the rub, this band was quite popular during their heyday but they haven't enjoyed the recall value of some of their contemporaries. Meanwhile, VDGG and GG have leapfrogged through critical re-evaluation rather than getting obscured. |
The great opinion and IMO theory. You answerd to some of my essential questions (honestly Problems) about G.G. Honestly I can't say my opinion clearly about them but you say that (my opinion) better than me. I can't add any thing to your reply. 
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GKR
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 22 2013
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 1376
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 11:56 |
Annie Haslam is a complete diva in my opinion. She's great. Magnificent voice. I dont have (I guess) a favourite album, but I do listen Scherezade, Ashes and Novella a lot... althout I have a great feeling for Prologue, "Spare some Love always plays when I need to get good vibes. Yeah, thats great we're talking about Renaissance on a thread especifically to it! 
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- From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: October 19 2015 at 10:54 |
rogerthat wrote:
Prog Sothoth wrote:
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Personal favourite Renaissance album? `Prologue'! Just because it `rocks' that little bit more than the albums that came after it, and I don't think there's a poor moment on the whole disc!
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Wow, more Prologue lovers...thought I was the only one out of the regulars! I'm still the only one apparently daft enough to give it a five star review here
Looking at what I posted on this thread in 2012, I still really need to hear those first two pre-Annie Renaissance albums. I should make it a mission or something.
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If you like Prologue that much, you should enjoy the pre-Annie albums, especially the s/t. |
Strangely, part of the Brit's reason for never fully excepting the mark ll Renaissance, despite the hit with Northern Lights, is a preference for the mark l band featuring Keith Relf and Jim McCarty.
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Why has Renaissance gone obscure?
