The Role of Virtuosity in Progressive Music

Gerinski wrote: Virtuosity has only little to do with sheer speed or technical difficulty, that's the misunderstanding. Technical proficiency is a requirement for true virtuosity, but talent, inspiration and being able to play with moving emotion are as much (if not more) a part of true virtuosity as being able to play fast is.

In that case, I would say that virtuosity is absolutely vital to progressive music.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding going on here because we're all defining "virtuosity" differently, and I admit that I often use it in different ways; to mean either pure technical ability or the more holistic view you're talking about.

Roger: I hear what you're saying, and I do agree that virtuosity (even if we're just talking technicality here) is very important to prog since it is, by it's own nature, a complex genre.  For some reason, I thought this was in General Music and replied accordingly .  I still think of technical ability as a tool and not an end in itself, like Steve said; I don't think it's somehow secondary to any other musical tools that a performer can use, nor do I think that technicality precludes emotion.

Virtuosity has only little to do with sheer speed or technical difficulty, that's the misunderstanding.

^ Thas my whole point: instrumental virtuosity can get in the way of resonance.

Virtuosity is important in the prog I enjoy the most and for me is the best prog---but of course, no matter how much technique you have, creativity and originality  is the key.

It's not essential, but it's an extremely useful tool in making the music moor interesting and can usually enhance the emotional impact of a piece.

Virtuosity is a big part of the genre, to me - I crave technically interesting music.  I am always listening for poly-rythms and compound time, and listening for fancy riffs and such.

Dayvenkirq wrote: ^ You miss my point. Remember VdGG's "House With No Door"? No need for virtuosity, but it's still prog. Does an artist need chopsmanship to resonate with the listener.

May I ask why are you so sure of that - that there is no need for virtuosity in that track?  What about the part from 4:30 onwards where Hammill's voice starts soaring, even hitting a full C5?  What is that if not chops?  It is very tough for a baritone to hit a C5 and Hammill has done that in a fair few songs.   His repertoire is not for everyone to render. 

Because House With No Door is a vocal oriented composition, the focus is on Hammill's abilities.  In Starless, it would have been that of the musicians.    But there are some ways of depicting emotions, especially the more violent ones, that may call on great technical skills.


Edited by rogerthat - February 22 2013 at 04:21

Dayvenkirq wrote: Have you ever tried to deliver the same ideas and emotions through music in a simpler fashion?

Um, the moment you take simplicity to its logical conclusion is the moment it ceases to be prog.   A Bob Dylan-like unsyncopated 4/4 song of four minutes or so length without time sig or chord changes or extended sections might well be more elegant at times in terms of conveying the emotions, but it wouldn't be prog.   The things that make rock prog are all these technicalities, ultimately.  So it is pretty bizarre if that is deemed not essential to prog.   A listener may not be interested in the technical aspects but he would observe the difference subconsciously nevertheless and thus identifies it as prog or not-prog.    Krautrock is perhaps the only broad exception to this, and as Tapfret said earlier, it is hard to imagine extreme prog metal or jazz rock that does not demand virtuosic musicianship.  I'd add Zeuhl to that category. 

Tapfret wrote: ^You've been around since 2006. I'm sure you have seen this discussion repeatedly and it always contains a throng that marginalizes musicians talent for the sake of the listeners subjective "feeling".  Its absurd to declare that being able to play four bars of 64th triplets in the middle of 3 key changes precludes the player from emotion.

Absurd? How did that come about?

^You've been around since 2006. I'm sure you have seen this discussion repeatedly and it always contains a throng that marginalizes musicians talent for the sake of the listeners subjective "feeling".  Its absurd to declare that being able to play four bars of 64th triplets in the middle of 3 key changes precludes the player from emotion.