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    Posted: November 13 2014 at 16:42
Duke's Travels. Everything else makes me want to puke. That includes Duchess, but I guess Tony Banks finally got a line up that wouldn't play over his bits. I do agree about the strange voicings (probably an alternate tuning) and how the musicianship was still present. I just think there's something wrong if you have to hide it "tastefully" behind a veneer of very immature music.
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 14:22
Hey, the epic It Bites track is great! Especially the middle part and the ending. 
I should check out the rest of the album too.
I understood that the third album is less proggy, more controversial. Some think it's their best, some are put off by it.

The Wind That Shakes The Barley is also good!
Yes, spontaneous like some of the best improvisational playing on Duke, though also with some catchy melody lines.
I should have gone further with It Bites.
But I can still do that now Smile

Not sure if Duke was an influence.
It did give a model for prog grown out of improvisation.


Edited by Moogtron III - November 10 2014 at 14:33
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 10 2014 at 03:59
Originally posted by Blacksword Blacksword wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

<span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.4;">It does have a more relaxed feel to it as the tension you need in great prog was ebbing away but nevertheless its still a very creative album and a decent listen.</span>


I think the relaxed feel doesn't do any wrong to the proggishness. The tandem Banks/Collins/Rutherford were, as I'm well informed, already composing from The Lamb On (with still Peter and Steve in the band) from an improvising situation as a trio.
Duke's Travels and Duke's End belong to my favorite Genesis tracks. Very, very loose, but also very prog IMHO.

But I admit: I'm biased: I often prefer the more improvised music to the more fight-for-every-note prog.
That's also why I prefer Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans and their first three albums to Close To The Edge. 

Yep perhaps . I wonder how big an influence this was on say It Bites and the track The Wind That Shakes The Barley? I love that track and it has that relaxed (or loose) feel as well but still prog nevertheless. IQ also did an album in this vein called Are You Sitting Comfortably? . You can traverse pop and prog indeed. Was Duke the first album to do this?!



I love Are You Sitting Comfortably. One of my favorite IQ albums.
It Bites? I must check that out. I only know their first album, which I like BTW.


The Big Lad in the windmill? If you like that you should really like the follow up 'Once around the world'

Check out the epic title track!

It Bites Once around the world

Sorry, straying off topic...

Right, The Big Lad In The Windmill. Great stuff.
Curious about the epic track.
Planning on listening to it tonight, when I'm sitting behind a pc with proper sound.
Right, back to topic: Duke is a great album LOL


Edited by Moogtron III - November 10 2014 at 04:00
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Points: 16130 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 14:24
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

<span style="font-size: 13px; line-height: 1.4;">It does have a more relaxed feel to it as the tension you need in great prog was ebbing away but nevertheless its still a very creative album and a decent listen.</span>


I think the relaxed feel doesn't do any wrong to the proggishness. The tandem Banks/Collins/Rutherford were, as I'm well informed, already composing from The Lamb On (with still Peter and Steve in the band) from an improvising situation as a trio.
Duke's Travels and Duke's End belong to my favorite Genesis tracks. Very, very loose, but also very prog IMHO.

But I admit: I'm biased: I often prefer the more improvised music to the more fight-for-every-note prog.
That's also why I prefer Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans and their first three albums to Close To The Edge. 

Yep perhaps . I wonder how big an influence this was on say It Bites and the track The Wind That Shakes The Barley? I love that track and it has that relaxed (or loose) feel as well but still prog nevertheless. IQ also did an album in this vein called Are You Sitting Comfortably? . You can traverse pop and prog indeed. Was Duke the first album to do this?!



I love Are You Sitting Comfortably. One of my favorite IQ albums.
It Bites? I must check that out. I only know their first album, which I like BTW.


The Big Lad in the windmill? If you like that you should really like the follow up 'Once around the world'

Check out the epic title track!

It Bites Once around the world

Sorry, straying off topic...
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 12:34
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

I still insist that Please Don't Ask is a very deep and emotional tune.  

Oh yes, it is! Clap
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 08 2014 at 12:33
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

It does have a more relaxed feel to it as the tension you need in great prog was ebbing away but nevertheless its still a very creative album and a decent listen.

I think the relaxed feel doesn't do any wrong to the proggishness. The tandem Banks/Collins/Rutherford were, as I'm well informed, already composing from The Lamb On (with still Peter and Steve in the band) from an improvising situation as a trio.
Duke's Travels and Duke's End belong to my favorite Genesis tracks. Very, very loose, but also very prog IMHO.

But I admit: I'm biased: I often prefer the more improvised music to the more fight-for-every-note prog.
That's also why I prefer Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans and their first three albums to Close To The Edge. 
Yep perhaps . I wonder how big an influence this was on say It Bites and the track The Wind That Shakes The Barley? I love that track and it has that relaxed (or loose) feel as well but still prog nevertheless. IQ also did an album in this vein called Are You Sitting Comfortably? . You can traverse pop and prog indeed. Was Duke the first album to do this?!


I love Are You Sitting Comfortably. One of my favorite IQ albums.
It Bites? I must check that out. I only know their first album, which I like BTW.
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Points: 15916 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2014 at 08:01
I had a revelation with this album.........
.........when I bought my record back in '87, I loved it for some time, then it just faded away in the shadow of what I listened to afterwards......
.........then. re-visiting this album a few years back, it blew me away..........
Great mix of Genesis-Prog, and well composed 'accessible' pop tunes.
I still insist that Please Don't Ask is a very deep and emotional tune. Don't even think there's a weak tune on it......
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Points: 26382 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 22:07
Originally posted by Moogtron III Moogtron III wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

It does have a more relaxed feel to it as the tension you need in great prog was ebbing away but nevertheless its still a very creative album and a decent listen.

I think the relaxed feel doesn't do any wrong to the proggishness. The tandem Banks/Collins/Rutherford were, as I'm well informed, already composing from The Lamb On (with still Peter and Steve in the band) from an improvising situation as a trio.
Duke's Travels and Duke's End belong to my favorite Genesis tracks. Very, very loose, but also very prog IMHO.

But I admit: I'm biased: I often prefer the more improvised music to the more fight-for-every-note prog.
That's also why I prefer Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans and their first three albums to Close To The Edge. 
Yep perhaps . I wonder how big an influence this was on say It Bites and the track The Wind That Shakes The Barley? I love that track and it has that relaxed (or loose) feel as well but still prog nevertheless. IQ also did an album in this vein called Are You Sitting Comfortably? . You can traverse pop and prog indeed. Was Duke the first album to do this?!
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Points: 10616 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 15:20
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

It does have a more relaxed feel to it as the tension you need in great prog was ebbing away but nevertheless its still a very creative album and a decent listen.

I think the relaxed feel doesn't do any wrong to the proggishness. The tandem Banks/Collins/Rutherford were, as I'm well informed, already composing from The Lamb On (with still Peter and Steve in the band) from an improvising situation as a trio.
Duke's Travels and Duke's End belong to my favorite Genesis tracks. Very, very loose, but also very prog IMHO.

But I admit: I'm biased: I often prefer the more improvised music to the more fight-for-every-note prog.
That's also why I prefer Yes' Tales From Topographic Oceans and their first three albums to Close To The Edge. 
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Points: 2098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 08:31
It starts and finishes strong, but there are passages in between that flit by without even knowing they passed.  Not as poppy as Abacab, but not as proggy as ATTWT. 
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Points: 26382 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 06 2014 at 01:32
Originally posted by Blackwater Floyd Blackwater Floyd wrote:

For me this is like "the turning point" between Prog Genesis and Pop Genesis. Personally I love Duke, hey I even eat off a plate with the cover on it. It is my favourite "Phil Collins trio" album. It's not hardcore prog like the classic Genesis, but this album rocks as a unit, it's solid from beginning to end.
Plus it has, in my opinion, the last trace of classic genesis in the eighties (Duke's Travels).

Absolutely agree with this viewpoint. It does have a more relaxed feel to it as the tension you need in great prog was ebbing away but nevertheless its still a very creative album and a decent listen.
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Points: 39 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 05 2014 at 18:44
For me this is like "the turning point" between Prog Genesis and Pop Genesis. Personally I love Duke, hey I even eat off a plate with the cover on it. It is my favourite "Phil Collins trio" album. It's not hardcore prog like the classic Genesis, but this album rocks as a unit, it's solid from beginning to end.
Plus it has, in my opinion, the last trace of classic genesis in the eighties (Duke's Travels).
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 09:12
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

FYI: I heard songs from this album sandwiched between Styx and Boston songs on the radio and nothing sounded out of the ordinary to me. Now that's AOR!! LOL


LOL...just saying someone who plays an advance style on keys will still have to focus on retaining the Tony Banks keyboard parts. Duke is "Top 40" , but that has little to do with learning Tony Banks' keyboard parts which sometimes are a headache. The songs on Duke seem ridiculous to many of us, but to musicians..they have a better view from being on top of a high rise , (so to speak), and it's clear to many of us that those progressive parts written in the Genesis Pop songs were masked by the cornball melodies and dance beats. Tony Banks is a perfectionist and actually many of the songs on the commercial Genesis albums take some work to learn, retain, and perform live.
Good point.  As I mentioned above, the guitar part for "Turn it On Again" has some strange chord voicings that don't lend themselves to standard neck movement.  Maybe it's a piece of cake for experienced players, but if that's the case, then I'm further down the guitar ladder than I thought.

Maybe not? It depends on how much time you're willing to devote. I remember hours I spent working on Genesis and Yes songs in my early 20's. However ..I still in fact depended on Classical training I received through my teens which added up to 10 and 15 hrs. a day. No ego here.....I was a humble student that followed every step my teacher suggested. After playing difficult pieces by J.S. Bach and Paganini , it made any attempts to learn Steve Hackett and Anthony Phillips much easier. However...they had an amazing background in music and were skilled....so there was always something to run across in their playing that required practice even if you were skilled. Don't allow that to discourage you in the least. Learn a simple piece by a Spanish composer, practice Andrea Segovia's book of scales regularly, and work on Genesis pieces in your spare time. By practicing Segovia's book of scales, your ear and mind will naturally give you the exact location of where Hackett or Phillips are playing on the fretboard and to a degree , the unpredictability of their playing will slowly grow to be predictable to you. 
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^No one said AOR was easy to play! But to me, it is what it is.
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Originally posted by TODDLER TODDLER wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

FYI: I heard songs from this album sandwiched between Styx and Boston songs on the radio and nothing sounded out of the ordinary to me. Now that's AOR!! LOL


LOL...just saying someone who plays an advance style on keys will still have to focus on retaining the Tony Banks keyboard parts. Duke is "Top 40" , but that has little to do with learning Tony Banks' keyboard parts which sometimes are a headache. The songs on Duke seem ridiculous to many of us, but to musicians..they have a better view from being on top of a high rise , (so to speak), and it's clear to many of us that those progressive parts written in the Genesis Pop songs were masked by the cornball melodies and dance beats. Tony Banks is a perfectionist and actually many of the songs on the commercial Genesis albums take some work to learn, retain, and perform live.
Good point.  As I mentioned above, the guitar part for "Turn it On Again" has some strange chord voicings that don't lend themselves to standard neck movement.  Maybe it's a piece of cake for experienced players, but if that's the case, then I'm further down the guitar ladder than I thought.
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Points: 5109 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 14:19
This was the first Genesis album I bought right when it was released ("Wind and Wuthering" made it to our house as a new release but it was my sister's purchase). I absolutely loved it at the time and affection remained for many years. The bloom fell of off the rose a bit about a decade ago, when I started to really dig into prog again. It still holds a special place in my heart but honestly I rarely play it.
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Points: 24032 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 10:20
I think it's their best album after the Hackett era.

Best tracks: Duke's Travels/Duke's End, Duchess, Cul de Sac, Guide Vocal.
Lowpoint: Misunderstanding.
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Points: 20500 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 09:10
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

An AOR album to me. The proggier parts sound forced. Not quite pure pop yet, but not satisfying either. What's your opinion of Duke?
 
That about sums it up for me  and I don't play anything after Wind these days. I do hear the pop hits from the later albums on the radio and that suffices.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 13:27
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^I agree Todd. Banks is an excellent keyboardist but so is Geoff Downs. Does this scenario sound familiar? LOL


Very.
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Points: 20531 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 13:26
^I agree Todd. Banks is an excellent keyboardist but so is Geoff Downs. Does this scenario sound familiar? LOL
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