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Gerinski View Drop Down
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Points: 5117 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Has Prog achieved 'inmortality'?
    Posted: November 29 2014 at 20:06
Immortality is a big word, but at least I'm really happy that it has lasted for so long and it seems that it will still last for a few more years. If I think that it would really have died around 1980 (as Walter used to claim) it would have been a much more boring life. Sure enough a lot of stuff was made in the 70's which I am still discovering, but the spectrum of different stuff would have been much smaller. If Prog will die after me, I'm happy enough Wink
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JD View Drop Down
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Points: 18383 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2014 at 17:54
This should say it all LOL
Thank you for supporting independently produced music
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Points: 16419 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2014 at 17:29
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

..... 
Europe has a very large and difficult music history that can be traced at least 1,500 years and it would be much more correct to say that a lot of "prog" and "progressive" music has more to thank in any of this "classical" music than otherwise.
   
 
I see this fact clearly as one of the reasons for such questioning Prog's 'immortality' these days.
 
Agreed ... but then, we can say the same thing for rock'n'roll, jazz, disco, punk ... you know what I mean.
 
I think that it has to be more musically inclined, that is less simplistic and high schoolish, in order to be considered "music" ... and all of a sudden, Robert Wyatt is in trouble!
 
We will know more in 50 years ... though i doubt I will be around then. Not sure I can make it to 114!
 
...
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

.....
Europe has a very large and difficult music history that can be traced at least 1,500 years and it would be much more correct to say that a lot of "prog" and "progressive" music has more to thank in any of this "classical" music than otherwise.
 
I see this fact clearly as one of the reasons for such questioning Prog's 'immortality' these days.
 
Agreed ... but then, we can say the same thing for rock'n'roll, jazz, disco, punk ... you know what I mean.
I think that it has to be more musically inclined, that is less simplistic and high schoolish, in order to be considered "music" ... and all of a sudden, Robert Wyatt is in trouble!
 
We will know more in 50 years ... though i doubt I will be around then. Not sure I can make it to 114!


Edited by moshkito - November 29 2014 at 17:34
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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Points: 12783 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2014 at 20:09
Originally posted by Permy Permy wrote:

Within this very thread a forum administrator has banned Surrealist for insisting  the dance music genre known as electronicA is inferior.


I   CAN believe that NONE OF YOU have stood up for  Surrealist.

I have seen and personally experienced this on many a music forum.

I never thought Progarchives was as big an oldboyo net as, say, Hoffman forum, but THIS puts a different light on things.


WHAT ARE YOU ALL AFRAID OF?
You get banned here, there is at least one other prog forum better you can go to.

Simples.

This diatribe is all the more amusing coming from a previously banned troll. Get along li'l doggie. I am sure there is a record bin that needs a proper category.
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to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Points: 12783 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2014 at 20:05
Originally posted by Permy Permy wrote:

Of course The Pwog is immortal.


But the question you should  be asking is:

If Pwog created you, then what created Pwog?

The answer many men  of the cloth give you is:  "Ah  but you are making the big assumption of a  CREATED PWOG."

I mean, wtf??


"Pwog"? You've already used the term "masterman" in a different thread. Do trolls have Tourettes and repeat the same idiosyncratic words over and over, carrying them like a venereal disease from one banned account to another?

Wallace/Walter/Knobby...in whichever guise you're still spouting gibberish.
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to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Points: 872 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2014 at 11:18
I'll bring it back on topic by making as simple a case as I can.
 
Yes, Prog Rock has an important, identifiable, and everlasting place in the 'history of music' because of the sheer weight, volume, longevity, and popularity of the best known prog groups.
"I know one thing: that I know nothing"

- SpongeBob Socrates
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2014 at 10:18
Thanks guys. 
I'm kinda regretting I did this over the open forum now, but I wanted to make it clear to people that we don't condone this kind of behaviour - especially when it's something the person in question has been warned about before...numerous times. 
We've had a few folks on here recently who, for some remarkable reason, cannot seem to make their points clear without having to drag down everyone around them - be that unsuspecting members, musicians or entire styles of music. It's not that we don't welcome opposing opinions - we do, but there are many ways of making one's point clear without being downright disrespectful and offensive. I thought I'd make it clear once and for all that we don't want that kind of attitude on PA. 

Alright, I hope this is clear and over with. Now can we please get back to Gerard's thread? Thanks.



Edited by Guldbamsen - November 26 2014 at 10:23
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2014 at 09:50
Originally posted by Permy Permy wrote:

Within this very thread a forum administrator has banned Surrealist for insisting  the dance music genre known as electronicA is inferior.


I   CAN believe that NONE OF YOU have stood up for  Surrealist.

I have seen and personally experienced this on many a music forum.

I never thought Progarchives was as big an oldboyo net as, say, Hoffman forum, but THIS puts a different light on things.


WHAT ARE YOU ALL AFRAID OF?
You get banned here, there is at least one other prog forum better you can go to.

Simples.

Most likely he wasn't banned for THAT but for embarking on the same tired analog v/s digital rant on every thread where he can somehow direct the conversation in that direction.  If you had been here a few months earlier too, you would have witnessed a replica of the same conversation that took place on this thread.   Surrealist saying the same things and lots of people making the same points in objection.  Surely somebody's got to get it at some point.
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Points: 20525 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2014 at 08:46
^Most likely it was the way the person in question posted his opinions that got him banned.
 
As someone who is incredibly outspoken, I can assure you that Guldbamsen and the PA staff are incredibly tolerant and diplomatic.
 
I know from a previous post that Surrealist was warned before being cut. (If that was indeed the case, I'm not going to check you.)
 
Why don't you experience this forum for a few months before drawing any conclusions.


Edited by SteveG - November 26 2014 at 09:28
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Permy View Drop Down
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Within this very thread a forum administrator has banned Surrealist for insisting  the dance music genre known as electronicA is inferior.


I   CAN believe that NONE OF YOU have stood up for  Surrealist.

I have seen and personally experienced this on many a music forum.

I never thought Progarchives was as big an oldboyo net as, say, Hoffman forum, but THIS puts a different light on things.


WHAT ARE YOU ALL AFRAID OF?
You get banned here, there is at least one other prog forum better you can go to.

Simples.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 22:40
Cooee! My sweet grumpies, immortality we all know the meaning of that, especially on here ;) thus it's not a specific music genre that will become immortal, the musicians who produced those epics are the ones who become immortal really Big smile
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Points: 37 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 20:15
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

For my own part I have found myself streaming TV and films over the last 6 months for the first time and I have to admit I like it. But that is TV and we are talking about something that comes and goes and is quickly  forgotten. The point of prog is that it sticks around and makes a place in your life not just something that flies by and then its onto the next thing. Streaming lends itself to the production line and that is not what is good for it imo. 
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

As frightening as this may come across to the collector in me, it still sounds like a plausible future. 
Nothing tangible for the consumer - only the cloud has the music stored. 
I'd still stick to my guns (and records though). If prog is ever to reach immortality, it'd be quite the detrimental blow when the cloud suddenly stops working....which it obviously will at some point. Nothing lasts forever - not even immortality.

Streaming movies and television has been huge in the last few years, and it's starting to redefine television and how it gets made.  I think the major reason why this has become more popular is due to its sheer convenience.  If you want to know the future of technology, people naturally gravitate toward whatever is most convenient, and I can see many people simply preferring to stream music rather than have to deal with buying and owning CDs or even mp3s.

Of course, physical media will never completely die.  Libraries will probably still have books and CDs and the like, and I'm certain many of the people around here will still try to buy physical discs or vinyls or whatever, for the purist market (though I would expect those prices to rise!).  But when it comes to what the mainstream demographics consume, it will be what requires the least of its users.

Originally posted by Angelo Angelo wrote:

Glad you posted that, so I don't have to. :)

Sure, I guess.  You're welcome.

Also, if you don't mind my two cents about Electronic Music.

First of all, I'm a massive fan of it (big into Trance, DNB, Happy Hardcore, and a lot of House/Dance/Club stuff), so therefore I think it's music.  Of course, one could technically argue that it's music simply because it's noise to a measurable rhythm, which means it doesn't take much for some sound to be music.  But I admit that's how I look at it.

I consider the idea that sounds need to be natural for something to be music to be flawed, as people have been doing all kinds of artificial things in the studio to great effect.  Think about most of Pink Floyd's music, especially early on with all the weird noises they used.  Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells is another interesting example.  Sure, he played all those instruments, but he also overdubbed himself.  It's not like we think he's playing all of them at the same time.  And of course there are all those synthesizers, the classic electronic music makers that have been one of the major staples of prog rock since near the beginning.  Most of the electronic music of today comes from tinkering with those classic keyboards and organs, and as a consequence, electronic music has become a rather wide and robust genre of music.  For those interested in all the different styles (or at least want to hear the sheer breadth of the genre), I highly recommend Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music.  It's a little bit out of date, but it's still very impressive and offers tons of examples.

It's hard to predict the future of music anyways.  The progressive rock fans generally didn't really anticipate punk rock, who didn't anticipate metal, who didn't anticipate grunge, and so forth.  At the very least, I think it's wonderful that the internet can help preserve the history of music, that way in case someone is interested in what has come before doesn't have to dig for it quite as hard.
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Points: 38 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 11:40
"Two trunkless legs of stone...."

Let us forget this  immortality topic . The thread has become interesting with the electronica/electronic debate.
......
Good post Toddler!

And Skinny Boy is NOT a troll. Good points there.
The line about silly DJ-toss  should be stamped onto  a bar of platinum.

I would quote it here ,but "cut & paste" does not seem to work here.


(Too bad  junior-"musician" "cut & paste" did not work for sharn-electronica. Unfortunately for us of the electronic faction, it does.)
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 11:29
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

..... 
Europe has a very large and difficult music history that can be traced at least 1,500 years and it would be much more correct to say that a lot of "prog" and "progressive" music has more to thank in any of this "classical" music than otherwise.
   
 
I see this fact clearly as one of the reasons for such questioning Prog's 'immortality' these days.


Edited by Rick Robson - November 25 2014 at 12:11


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 11:28
^When it sticks around and makes a place in your life.


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Points: 328 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 11:03
Don't feed the troll.  His reasoning is almost entirely emotional, any logical points are weak at best, and he simply repeats his point in new words rather than acknowledging merits (or lack) of the counterarguments.  

Also, at risk of showing my ignorance, isn't it "Immortality?"  Or is there a prog reference buried in there?  When does music become immortal anyways?
More heavy prog, please!
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Points: 14769 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 10:30
Sorry Guldbumsen i had to respond to this nonsense. Back to toopic
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Points: 14769 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 10:28
Originally posted by Surrealist Surrealist wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:


Music needs to be performed by either people, animals or nature.  Spending all day copy and pasting sound files on a computer from a folder filled with sound files is not music.  It's digital collage.  If you like playing video games that simulate car chases or war scenes... good for you.. but it's not driving a car or flying a medivac helicopter into a hot zone in Vietnam.  It's simulation.  Listening to computer electronica is like having sex based upon computer images.  You do that.. not me.  I prefer the real thing.  You like electronica and Prog? Same as you liking internet porn and real sex , but don't confuse the two.  Electronica is NOT music.  It digital collage of sound files.  It's ok to like it.. but you're being dumbed down by non musicians brainwashing you into thinking it's music.  It's not.


Well, i guess the minute someone plugs in their guitar and amplifies it it is no longer music. Who do you think programs the computers and assembles the collages? Do the computers actually assemble the sounds randomly or is there a human involved? Just admit it that you don't like an entire genre based on your prejudice and leave it at that. But to come up with ridiculous blanket statements like this is laughable. On the contrary to being dumbed down i find certain electronica artists hightly progressive with incredibly original ideas but maybe i've been brainwashed into thinking so while i'm watching internet porn! Ha ha ha


That really hurt my feelingsCry

But after thinking about it all day and going through 1/5th of a box of tissue, I realized that the person who wrote this probably is one of those insensitive soulless humans who probably likes mindless soulless music like electronica and has been so dumbed down by peer pressure to conform that they have no idea what they are talking about or are completely unaware of human emotion and the ramifications thereof.

I think when someone plugs in a guitar into an amplifier, they are still playing an instrument.  Unlike the pretentious "DJ" spinning up on the platform who isn't playing anything other than posing as a fake god to the dumbest generation of all time.

You do that.. not me.




[/QUOTE]

Seriously? You have the audacity to call anyone who likes electronic music stupid and then can't take it when someone takes offense? There have been so many good points on here i have nothing else to add but despite them they seem to fly right over your head. I personally don't give a flying frack what kind of music you like but when you make blanket statements that insult others with absolutely no valid points i find that the greatest insensitivity of all. You can go cry now and tell your mommy about the big bad bullies on the forum section.
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Points: 23098 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 09:04
^^Completely agree and what a great post Toddler. 
Electronica though is an umbrella term for a wide variety of music including the IDM scene, which translates into Intelligent Dance Music. I'm not sure why that was, because most of what got produced under that moniker is nigh on impossible to dance toLOL.........but it was intelligent and in many ways sported the 90s equivalent of those early 70s electronic albums. There was as much talent and musical flair going on - it only showed itself in a completely different manner.
Anyway, enough with the electronic talk. Let's get back on track and back to to the premise of the threadWink




Edited by Guldbamsen - November 25 2014 at 09:05
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Walton Street View Drop Down
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Points: 872 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2014 at 09:01
I just thought Electronica to be a more inclusive term ... electric, and the music that evolved from it.
 
trying to classify music now is like trying to herd cats.
 
I remember when there was rock, and alternative rock.
 
notice there's no alternative rock anymore? (I blame Nirvana)


Edited by Walton Street - November 25 2014 at 09:02
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