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Tapfret 
Special Collaborator
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 Topic: Could prog rock have been called "indie"?
Posted: January 16 2018 at 12:06 |
 Jeffro wrote:
True. Labels suck mostly but we are a society that desires to label things so here we are. |
We have to have some level of descriptor. How far can we reel back the label? Just call it music? That doesn't help people to understand anything about it. And some would even have a problem with that label. I guess we would have to call it sound. No, we need descriptor hierarchies to lead us in the right direction to things we might enjoy. I don't want to have to wade through a bunch of country and hip hop to get to something with frequent key changes and rhythmic modulation. Prog is as good an umbrella as any to put it under. Indie on the other hand tells me nothing about what it will actually sound like. To answer the op....no.
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Rednight
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Joined: January 18 2014
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Posted: January 16 2018 at 11:45 |
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Not when the powers-that-be, colossal record company backed the big acts
early on. Of course, the record biz has changed dramatically since then taking on attributes of an indie industry.
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"It just has none of the qualities of your work that I find interesting. Abandon [?] it." - Eno
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miamiscot
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Location: Ohio
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Posted: January 16 2018 at 10:12 |
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Most Prog today is, by definition, Indie: i.e. - music released on an independent label. It's underground status also helps.
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axeman
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 22:57 |
I agree about the label "progressive rock" being meaningful.
In the 90s, on usenet, I started checking out a newsgroup called alt.rock.progressive. People liked Genesis, people liked Yes, people liked King Crimson, people liked Steve Hackett, and I learned of some other bands to try out, Henry Cow, Echolyn, etc.. All who appealed to me by their complexity of music. Only heard of Gentile Giant, but they were obscure. At that time all I had ever heard was the post-prog "Number one" (which I liked) and Giant for a Day.
In the later 90s, I found a streaming station Progrock.com. Genesis, Yes, King Crimson, Hackett, other bands. Learned of Spock's Beard, Rocket Scientists, Jadis, and finally got to hear some Gentle Giant (until recently, their music was hard to get a hold of!)
Many years later, I found this site Prograrchives.com. "Progressive", "prog" have been instrumental labels in helping me find music I want to listen to. Even though there are always questions of whether "progressive rock" is "progressive" or not, and what is and isn't prog at every single site and forum.
YMMV on group by group, but for the most part, those labels have been instrumental in learning out this general type of music which offers "more to listen to", as I describe it.
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-John
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 08:11 |
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^ Yeah, it became grunge but initially was "alternative." Bad example but you get my drift
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 08:07 |
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I thought Nirvana was Grunge though, which in my view scores somewhat higher on the genre label score.
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 07:53 |
Lewian wrote:
Indie is about as terrible as a genre label as Prog, referring to on what kind of label a musician publishes rather than to what the music actually is.
I'd think Indie fans have the same kind of tedious discussions "are XYZ a true Indie band" and some will argue that the word means independent, and XYZ are indeed independent of major labels, and some others argue that it's a label for a certain sound/style and one should stick to that, and therefore XYZ are not Indie because they sound like the Poor Man's Pink Floyd.
So had Prog been labelled Indie (and Indie Prog instead  ) nobody would be better off, or worse for that matter, and the world would still be the same place.
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Agreed. The problem is that these things aren't systematically planned out. Somehow they just catch on and take on a life of their own. Another one that makes zero sense is "alternative" which was fine when that type of music was underground but once it became mainstream bands like Nirvana and others should have been relabled but that doesn't sound good does it? Marketing is a very powerfully strange force indeed.
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Jeffro
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 07:48 |
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True. Labels suck mostly but we are a society that desires to label things so here we are.
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We all live in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.
My face IS a maserati
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Lewian
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 07:31 |
Indie is about as terrible as a genre label as Prog, referring to on what kind of label a musician publishes rather than to what the music actually is. I'd think Indie fans have the same kind of tedious discussions "are XYZ a true Indie band" and some will argue that the word means independent, and XYZ are indeed independent of major labels, and some others argue that it's a label for a certain sound/style and one should stick to that, and therefore XYZ are not Indie because they sound like the Poor Man's Pink Floyd. So had Prog been labelled Indie (and Indie Prog instead ) nobody would be better off, or worse for that matter, and the world would still be the same place.
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Guldbamsen
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 06:28 |
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Shall I remind thee of the great Shakespear who once spoketh about the humble rose?
Prog rock could've been named Bouncy Bouncy and still sound exactly the same...nothing's changed.
Anyway ouside of recommendations and such labels are extremely frustrating. Prog rock was pop at one time if we're going by the pop=popular moniker. If progressive rock was to be taken seriously as a serious moniker, then we would have called a lot of the new wave and post-punk acts the new prog rock bands around 1978. Why? Because they were progressing the rock format ie playing rock that is progressive (here I am obviously not talking about The Clash or The Sex Pistols but Wire, Pere Ubu, The Fall, Talking Heads and so forth). But prog rock had by that point already been redusced to a box with a specific sound and the accompanying antics.
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Jeffro
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 06:13 |
Manuel wrote:
Maybe it could, maybe not. In reality, labels are just that, labels. If the music is good, it does not matter what is called, I will listen to it. |
Agreed. However, calling prog "indie" conjures up images (for me) of the music being listened to by hipster doofuses wearing fedoras. 
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We all live in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain.
My face IS a maserati
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Manuel
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Location: United States
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 06:00 |
M27Barney wrote:
In the late seventies - I distinctly remember genesis/Yes being labelled as 'Contemporary Rock' - anybody else remember that? |
I do. Even nowadays, the prog heroes of the classic period, and as a matter of fact the whole progressive movement, are considered and clasified as "Classic Rock" by some music pundits.
Edited by Manuel - January 15 2018 at 06:02
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M27Barney
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Posted: January 15 2018 at 04:39 |
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In the late seventies - I distinctly remember genesis/Yes being labelled as 'Contemporary Rock' - anybody else remember that?
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Manuel
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 20:02 |
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Maybe it could, maybe not. In reality, labels are just that, labels. If the music is good, it does not matter what is called, I will listen to it.
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dr wu23
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 22 2010
Location: Indiana
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Points: 20501
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 15:50 |
Did you mean to say 'undie' rather than indie...?
;)
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One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
Haquin
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Neu!mann
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 21 2005
Location: United States
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Points: 688
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 11:44 |
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Back in the '70s Progressive Rock was the mainstream, though...wasn't it? ELP was one of the biggest acts on the planet; Yes was enjoying huge popular success; Pink Floyd released the biggest-selling album of all time...even cult acts like King Crimson and Genesis were often front page news in the music press.
Pretty amazing if you think about it, with all the challenging music being made at the time. It's a different story today, of course...
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"we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini
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Cosmiclawnmower
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 11:16 |
Sean Trane wrote:
Well before prog became art rock , it was first called underground rock
And
Charisma, Islands, Virgin and a few other labels (Neon, maybe) were
indeed independant labels way back when... But this was not for Deram
(Decca), Vertigo (Phillips), Harvest (EMI), Dawn (RCA)
BTW: indie is a dirty five letter word  |
Ooo so so sorry, i'm going to be really pedantic (and 'the pedants are revolting') please forgive me its my OCD tendencies..
'Neon' was RCA's 'Art rock' imprint and 'Dawn' was the Pye label's version of the same.
'Charisma' was a truly independent label and Tony Stratton-Smith was a total innovator and patron of the fledgling movement; so many great bands and artists just would not have ever been heard without his support. It really is time a decent book on TSS and Charisma was written!
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 08:58 |
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Anything on an independent label is indie. Kylie Minogue topped the indie charts in the UK in her early days.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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twosteves
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 07:47 |
I used to think that an album like The Yes Album---seemed indie to me
I think there are lots of indie bands that seem related to prog or arty rock
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siLLy puPPy
Special Collaborator
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic
Joined: October 05 2013
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Posted: January 14 2018 at 07:35 |
Tom Ozric wrote:
What are Devo then ??? |
They are men. They are Devo!
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Could prog rock have been called "indie"?
