Did prog musicians develop new playing techniques? |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Posted: May 19 2018 at 02:16 |
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Precisely! I also play a fretless five-string with a plectrum because of Chris Squire's work. High-five, fellow bass player!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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cstack3
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I'm a serious student of Squire, he's done some amazing things that are rarely discussed. For example, on TFTO, he plays a fretless Guild bass guitar with a plectrum, achieving a nearly perfect imitation of a tympani drum! This is particularly evident on "The Remembering." His use of the three-necked Wal bass guitar on "Going For The One" (on "Awaken") is another example of his brilliant innovation on the instrument. Excellent article on that instrument: Edited by cstack3 - May 18 2018 at 22:00 |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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That's honestly what I figured. I can't hear it in that music, though. Squire was the first one where I could tell he was playing differently.
Basically progressive rock is a lie, LOL.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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Easy Money
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^ Some older rock musicians got you beat there, such as Waylon Jennings with Buddy Holly and Bill Black with Elvis Presley.
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Frenetic Zetetic
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The only other things I can think of, and they've most likely already been done, are the little quarks with how the pick/fingers create essentially a pinch harmonic when playing the bass guitar with a plectrum, ALA Squire.
Other than that my mind is blank. |
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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cstack3
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Accepted, and this points out something significant = prog is entirely derivative. Nothing new under the sun, I fear.
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Atavachron
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You gotta love someone named Roy Smeck. Speaking of "tapping", Eddie really brought to a new level with the 'Mean Street' intro which is a bitch to do well. Here's a decent youtuber giving it a go - - |
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Easy Money
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^ There are lots of jazz guitar players who use nylon strings, particularly in the world of Latin jazz, Charlie Byrd for example. There's more where that came from.
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cstack3
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Here's one....John McLaughlin playing blazing jazz-rock licks on a nylon string guitar, using a plectrum!
As I recall, he said he was having some issues with his hands back then, and nylon strings required less effort. Watch him start to burn it up about 1:10 in this clip! Just amazing.... (Sorry, having problems posting the YouTube link! Check it out, JM is amazing!) Edited by cstack3 - May 17 2018 at 18:22 |
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Davesax1965
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Guitar finger tapping predates prog rock. Some of the first guitars designed for tapping were built many years before Prog was even thought of.
Sax, nope. Rahsaan Roland Kirk was playing God knows how many saxes, flutes and nose flutes years before Dave Jackson (nice bloke) came up with the idea. Bass, nope. Fretless bass was played in jazz many years before prog musicians picked one up. Keyboards / synths - again no. There are no new techniques I can think of on keyboards, synths, organs or Mellotrons which were specific to prog rock. Of course, prog musicians were early adopters of synths, that's just historical coincidence. If those are just the bare bones facts, then I can tell you as someone who plays all those instruments, from a musical perspective, nothing new musically came out of prog rock in terms of technique. |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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Ah, I always forget about Wyman! Was never a fan, so that's probably why, LOL. Thank you for the historical correction!
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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HackettFan
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P.S. Another thought occurred to me. Yes, amplification made it easier to get a tone out of fretting with the right hand when the left hand is already holding a note, while this was difficult with an acoustic instrument. Recall at least one of the old videos had the acoustic player tapping on different strings from his left hand. As any electric guitar player can testify, this is more difficult with an electric. Changing strings is more difficult because, without a resonant chamber, it’s difficult to hammer down on an open string and get anything to sound out. Hammering on an open string yields a whole lot more sound on an acoustic because it has such a resonating chamber for the vibration to travel into. Consider also the Roy Smeck vid. He played other instruments, but he only did right handed tapping on the ukelele. He tapped over left handed chords. Since as coincidence has it I happened to be working on doing that on an electric for the last couple weeks, and I know it’s difficult and heavily dependent on a compressor in my signal chain. So, how is Roy Smeck able to do it? Because of the small size of the resonant chamber, it is very easy to get sound out of. Recall how he slapped at it and even blew into it at a couple points. Edited by HackettFan - May 14 2018 at 22:49 |
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Atavachron
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Two-handed tapping has been used by stringed instrument players for ages, but it wasn't until good amplification was available that guys like Hackett and VanHalen were able to exploit high-end tone & wattage to magnify the technique. I suspect centuries ago the initial reason for using the non-fretting hand was to voice a note or interval that one could not reach with the fret hand, thereby extending a player's reach and harmonic range. |
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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HackettFan
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Let’s use an analogy. A person can bend a string up and shake it for vibrato when it gets to the desired pitch. Another person might bend a string up and mute it when it gets to the desired pitch. I think most would agree that these are distinctive techniques. The particulars matter. Why? Because they matter to the musicians who have it in their minds to do very particular things. |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Easy Money
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^ your video link does not work. Here is some two handed tapping from 1965. He starts off holding chords, then comes the tapping. Also, Dave Bunker developed a touch guitar in the early 1950s that proceded the stick by a decade at least, but I could not get videos of it.
Edited by Easy Money - May 14 2018 at 19:02 |
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HackettFan
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RcQYt7xvA8M
This is a perfect example of what is not two-handed tapping, although it’s often given as a very early example. It is one-handed tapping. Roy Smeck is using his right hand and only his right hand to tap while his left hand is forming chords. It is not two-handed tapping. It is of course very interesting and very valuable in its own right and on its own terms. |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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HackettFan
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As for the others, as there have been several now. Everyone insists upon referring to “the tapping” technique (and I do hope everyone means “two-handed tapping” or we’re really talking past each other), there has not nor has there ever been one single two-handed tapping technique. Just look at the Chapman Stick. Every time someone has shown me old footage of someone doing it has never been the same as what people regularly do in this day and age. |
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A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now)
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Easy Money
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The Shadows used the volume pedal and were a stated influence on many prog rock guitarists, particularly Hackett. |
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Easy Money
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Bill Wyman did that back in 1961. |
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Frenetic Zetetic
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I was going to say, Hackett most definitely did not invent tapping. Popularized it a bit before Van Halen, sure (Jimi Paige was doing some hammer on/off stuff and tapping at the time, as well I believe). The violin example was great.
Jaco may have been the first to rip the frets out of an electric bass and make it fretless on his own.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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