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B.J Wilson - Why is there so little praise

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Ruby900 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ruby900 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: B.J Wilson - Why is there so little praise
    Posted: January 23 2019 at 13:00
Originally posted by Jherek6 Jherek6 wrote:

Shout out to the Edmonton Symphony Orchestra of Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.  One of my favorite Procol Harum albums.

Start here as this is the album made me sit and listen. I cannot believe I had managed to miss PH and their wonderful albums and BJ Wilson. Essential listening.
"I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2018 at 10:57
I like to listen to a drummer to gauge hes skill to listen to, if he have played drums in another full album or song. For then to ger a broader understanding of skills. And B.J Wilson outside drumming besides PH is actualy quite an important album as it is the soundtrack for Rocky Horror Picture Show, were he plays the entire record, he is the original drummer of that very infulential rock opera.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2018 at 09:27
^ That sounds like a yes and a no. And then a yes. Or vice versa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2018 at 09:00
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

^ I've noticed this myself but as the freinds came on board Tull got better and Procol got worse. Confused
 
Nope, not the way I meant it: Pre-Procol's friends got to record the first album, bumping out Rover & Harrison.... It's as they gradually disappeared/quit (Fisher, Knights, Copping & Trower) that Procol got worse.
 
However, unlike Tull, who had only Anderson on the debut album by TAAB time (72) , Procol still had Brooker, Reid, Wilson, Copping (returning as KB instead of bass) and Fisher (returning at production spot) at the Grand Hotel album (73) 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2018 at 06:30
^ I've noticed this myself but as the freinds came on board Tull got better and Procol got worse. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2018 at 04:15
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

^ I'm not intimately familiar with the band history but I believe that Fisher left after Salty Dog and Trower after Broken Barricades, which was 2 albums later..  He might well have hated David Ball but there is no evidence they were in the group at the same time,  Fisher did return to Procol for a time in the 1990s

Oops...you're correct he left after A Salty Dog and Trower after Broken Barricades...I misread Fisher's wiki page Embarrassed

Although no longer involved directly in recording and touring, Fisher continued as a producer for the group. After Trower left in 1971 for a solo career, he briefly rejoined the band, with bandmate Chris Copping moving full-time onto bass. He was unhappy with the financial situation of the band, and with Trower's replacement, Dave Ball, and so left again, this time acrimoniously, to become a full-time producer for CBS.
 
Tull and Procol have a bit of a similar early history in many ways
 
Their main composer (Ian and Gary) had a band which got left out (one in Blackpool and the other in Southend On Sea) , when they got big in London with a different line-up.
Of course Brooker's original band came in directly to reform the band after the mega-hit of WSoP, while Anderson's Blackpool acolytes came in gradually to replace the first Tull line-up (once Abrahams, Cornick and Bunker had left), with only Barre as not part of their pre-Tull band.
 
However as Procol's original line-up of the first album started disintegrating, the quality of the band's output also diminished (I never cared for post-BB albums, except for the Edmonton thing, which celebrates mostly the first line-up). While Tull's actually gave better albums every time (save maybe Benefit, which I find weaker), until perfection hit them with TAAB...  Then for mysterious reasons, they never managed to go back to ankle-height of TAAB afterwards.
 
This to say that I hold both bands' first album line-up in higher sympathy, regardless whether their replacement were better musicians or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2018 at 19:35
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

^ I'm not intimately familiar with the band history but I believe that Fisher left after Salty Dog and Trower after Broken Barricades, which was 2 albums later..  He might well have hated David Ball but there is no evidence they were in the group at the same time,  Fisher did return to Procol for a time in the 1990s

Oops...you're correct he left after A Salty Dog and Trower after Broken Barricades...I misread Fisher's wiki page Embarrassed

Although no longer involved directly in recording and touring, Fisher continued as a producer for the group. After Trower left in 1971 for a solo career, he briefly rejoined the band, with bandmate Chris Copping moving full-time onto bass. He was unhappy with the financial situation of the band, and with Trower's replacement, Dave Ball, and so left again, this time acrimoniously, to become a full-time producer for CBS.

thanks, that clarifies things quite a bit.  I just read and interview where he referred to joining and quitting several times.  Your information is of the sort one cannot get by just reading the album credits.  For instance, though he joined after Broken Barricades, he was gone by the time of the live album.  So he was likely part of the band that toured with David Ball.  BTW, love Ball's guitar solo on the live version of "Conquistador".  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2018 at 18:51
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

^ I'm not intimately familiar with the band history but I believe that Fisher left after Salty Dog and Trower after Broken Barricades, which was 2 albums later..  He might well have hated David Ball but there is no evidence they were in the group at the same time,  Fisher did return to Procol for a time in the 1990s

Oops...you're correct he left after A Salty Dog and Trower after Broken Barricades...I misread Fisher's wiki page Embarrassed

Although no longer involved directly in recording and touring, Fisher continued as a producer for the group. After Trower left in 1971 for a solo career, he briefly rejoined the band, with bandmate Chris Copping moving full-time onto bass. He was unhappy with the financial situation of the band, and with Trower's replacement, Dave Ball, and so left again, this time acrimoniously, to become a full-time producer for CBS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2018 at 17:34
^ I'm not intimately familiar with the band history but I believe that Fisher left after Salty Dog and Trower after Broken Barricades, which was 2 albums later..  He might well have hated David Ball but there is no evidence they were in the group at the same time,  Fisher did return to Procol for a time in the 1990s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2018 at 13:23
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Fisher was certainly recognized when PH first broke out with A Whiter Shade Of Pale. Good God, the song is all him. Wilson was not even on the recording of A Whiter Shade. A session drummer was used.

Ya, no BJ or Trower...no wonder Fisher won his 2009 copyright lawsuit vs Brooker/Reid and was awarded 40% royalty ownership from that day forward Wink

It's actually very interesting.  The story goes that Brooker came up with the chords, Reid wrote the words, and both Fisher and Brooker traded organ & piano solos in the original 10 minute long version of the song.  They drastically reduced the length and decided to keep Fisher's organ solos and dump Brooker's piano solos.  I would say it's not unusual that someone who plays a solo doesn't get a songwriting credit, but in this case, the organ intro and solo lines are such an integral part of the song that it's not a normal situation.  Anyway, Fisher stayed in the band until Trower left then bailed because of years of frustration over feeling slighted on the AWSoP credit and he hated Trower's replacement, Dave Ball LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2018 at 10:48
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

well nobody from Procol really gets a huge amount of recognition.  It was more about the band and the overall sound.  But honestly, Matthew Fisher has to rank pretty high in terms of underappreciated players.  When he left and they had Chris Copping double on organ while being primarily the bass guy, the sound became less rich and more like other bands.  Though Grand Hotel was pretty refined and that occurred after.  It was kind of the exception in the post Fisher discography
Fisher was certainly recognized when PH first broke out with A Whiter Shade Of Pale. Good God, the song is all him. Wilson was not even on the recording of A Whiter Shade. A session drummer was used. Unfortunately, Fisher has been relegated to the second class keyboardists like Rod Argent. Both are geniuses in my book.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2018 at 10:17
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

well nobody from Procol really gets a huge amount of recognition.  It was more about the band and the overall sound.  But honestly, Matthew Fisher has to rank pretty high in terms of underappreciated players.  When he left and they had Chris Copping double on organ while being primarily the bass guy, the sound became less rich and more like other bands.  Though Grand Hotel was pretty refined and that occurred after.  It was kind of the exception in the post Fisher discography
Fisher also have a very sensitive voice
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2018 at 09:34
Originally posted by kenethlevine kenethlevine wrote:

well nobody from Procol really gets a huge amount of recognition.

And that's too bad...but I guess they're one of those, "sum is greater than the individual parts" bands, though I consider Gary Brooker one of the greatest voices in rock history Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2018 at 21:35
well nobody from Procol really gets a huge amount of recognition.  It was more about the band and the overall sound.  But honestly, Matthew Fisher has to rank pretty high in terms of underappreciated players.  When he left and they had Chris Copping double on organ while being primarily the bass guy, the sound became less rich and more like other bands.  Though Grand Hotel was pretty refined and that occurred after.  It was kind of the exception in the post Fisher discography
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Old Father Thames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2018 at 16:49
Love Procol Harum and love Wilson's drumming. Still not sure why he goes under the radar. Mitch Mitchell does, too. Both great drummers that barely get mentioned. Actually, Procol Harum gets little mention, too, and to me they are one of the greats!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 25 2018 at 02:36
Originally posted by The.Crimson.King The.Crimson.King wrote:

  Though I wouldn't consider Trower one of rock's finest guitarists in the early days of Procol, I think he developed his skills and confidence over those first few albums and left when the time (and his abilities) were ready Wink


yup!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The.Crimson.King Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2018 at 09:35
Originally posted by uduwudu uduwudu wrote:

Hardly a secret weapon though; that was the very underutilized Robin Trower. One of rock's finest guitarists kept in the background. 

That's a good point.  Trower's exit from Procol reminds me a lot of Hackett's exit from Genesis.  He just outgrew his role in the band, was writing too many songs they wouldn't use and it was inevitable.  Though I wouldn't consider Trower one of rock's finest guitarists in the early days of Procol, I think he developed his skills and confidence over those first few albums and left when the time (and his abilities) were ready Wink


Edited by The.Crimson.King - August 24 2018 at 09:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uduwudu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 24 2018 at 02:54
Always thought of him as being close to Mitch Mitchell's styles. Hardly a secret weapon though; that was the very underutilized Robin Trower. One of rock's finest guitarists kept in the background.

BJ Wilson was indeed considered by Page but I doubt he would have been really suitable; he already had his thing with Procol whereas Zeppelin were breaking new ground.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 11:04
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

BJ Wilson was a fabulous drummer. He had a great feel and wonderfully precise time. He was a studio drummer in 66 and drummed for Lulu and Cat Stevens also. Oddly he was also chosen to fill in on AC/DC's Flick Of A Switch album in '83 when Phil Rudd took ill. Wilson passed 28 years ago from a drug OD that happened 3 years prior. Reports were that this was intentional and this saddens me. Because he was in pain to cause this. And it saddens me that no one was there for him to see this and help before it became too late. Okay admittedly he is not on my Must Hear List, but he produced some very fine music and had the right stuff, as they say, for Procol Harum whom I believe to lead the way for Prog. BJ Wilson is missed!
hes drumming on the 76 live concert on Youtube is a reccomended watch. He remeinds me of Gene Krupa if Gene played rock
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote deafmoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 22 2018 at 07:51
BJ Wilson was a fabulous drummer. He had a great feel and wonderfully precise time. He was a studio drummer in 66 and drummed for Lulu and Cat Stevens also. Oddly he was also chosen to fill in on AC/DC's Flick Of A Switch album in '83 when Phil Rudd took ill. Wilson passed 28 years ago from a drug OD that happened 3 years prior. Reports were that this was intentional and this saddens me. Because he was in pain to cause this. And it saddens me that no one was there for him to see this and help before it became too late. Okay admittedly he is not on my Must Hear List, but he produced some very fine music and had the right stuff, as they say, for Procol Harum whom I believe to lead the way for Prog. BJ Wilson is missed!
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