Trick of the tail at the time |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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Posted: September 24 2019 at 11:07 |
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The music industry have always been able to influence the gullible fashion following sheeples...The great rock and roll swindle of 1976 is just the instance which resonates with us as prog fans...
Edited by M27Barney - September 24 2019 at 11:08 |
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Braka1
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2019 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1171 |
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I wrote "if you weren't there at the
time you have no idea how hostile the music press was to (prog)" I should perhaps have been a bit more specific and said 'English music press', or even just got down to naming names: Melody Maker, and especially NME. These papers had a virtual stranglehold on what it was acceptable for a musically literate person to like in the late 70's in the UK and by extension Australasia, and they were utter snobs, which is ironic since it was one of their main objections to prog. Fripp still seems to have a major bee in his bonnet over this, if some of the later KC sleeve notes are any indication.
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Braka1
Forum Senior Member Joined: August 22 2019 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1171 |
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Re the original question: Gabriel left Genesis when I was about 12 and just
as I was getting into music. I was bigtime into Floyd and Hawkwind by
1975-76 in the calm before the punk storm, and I may have been aware
that a band named Genesis existed, but it would be a year or two before I
started paying attention to them. This is how it happened from my POV. It's a bit back-to-front. At
the start of 1977 I saw the clip for Peter Gabriel's 'Modern Love' and
was utterly gobsmacked. I still am. It was an incredible song,
especially as a proggish song coming out right at the birth of punk. So I
immediately got the first Gabriel album (for some reason I remember
getting the second album first, so maybe it wasn't immediate). Then at
the other end of the same year, Genesis had a sizeable hit in Australia
with 'Follow you Follow Me'. This seemed a pleasant tune, but compared
with 'Modern Love' seemed lightweight and hardly an auspicious
introduction to the band in the year of The Sex Pistols and The
Stranglers (it probably didn't help that there was an Abba single with a
similar title). I had just gotten into
music as a prog fan, only to be enthused by new wave, which left me
with a permanent guilty feeling about prog (if you weren't there at the
time you have no idea how hostile the music press was to it, and how
desperately uncool it was to like anyone who's first album was from
before 1976, unless it was the Velvet Underground) Genesis needed to be more not less edgy to capture my alegience. But
I did backtrack into the Genesis discography because of Gabriel. Loved
nearly all the Gabriel albums to one extent or another. When I got to
'Trick of the tail', which was a couple of years old by then, it just
seemed to lack any real edge to me, and it still does. I had friends who
were nuts about it, but to me Genesis after Gabriel were never more
than mildly interesting at best. I preferred 'Wind and Wuthering'
(perhaps becasue nobody was telling me how great it was), but not by a
lot. I had an uptick of interest when 'Duke' came out, but from memory
by this time Gabriel had his amazing third album, and again, Genesis
just sounded like a proggish pop band whereas Gabriel seemed both
genuinely progressive and had a new-wavish edginess as well, in a
similar way to Hammill (who I was discovering by now). |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19716 |
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The title track is amazing and quite witty (a bit like Counting Out Time). Sure it isn't an epic, but I could've struck as a single as a minor hit (the lyrics are still too obtuse for mass consumption), if marketed properly. Furthermore, TOTT had one of the best artwork ever, with that engraved cardboard gatefold sleeve and the amazing inner sleeve to slide the disc in.
RA&B is indeed a return to opera rock (multiple characters signing or speaking), something they'd done ever since Harold The Barrel, then Get Them Out By Friday, Epping Forest (and I Know What...) and a couple tracks on The Lamb.... And They would do the same on W&W with All In A Mouse's Night .... and to a lesser extent in One For The Vine. In terms of humour, RA&B and Epping are definitely the funniest ones around. Even Zappa never managed to be as that witty , and Ian Anderson only succeeded successfully in Aqualung and TAAB (I gave up trying to understand APP) Now of course, I've always thought that the "vicar on the prowl for Staffordshire plates" passage was somewhat interfering with the rest of the tune, but it is at least as equally funny as the gang warfare description, and it's quite a feat to include it gracefully and successfully inside the epic Edited by Sean Trane - September 24 2019 at 02:22 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26436 |
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Agree about Robbery, Assault and Battery although it is the only low point for me on Trick (although I mentioned I love the drumming before so that is something at least) . Nothing on Epping Forest much appeals to me. It starts promisingly enough but as soon as the 'posh vicar' pipes up I just switch off. It does make me think that you can hide a multitude of sins in prog by just extending songs by 6 minutes! They did estue the long form approach on Lamb and that works brilliantly apart from the weird psyche stuff on Waiting Room. Trick was powerful and to the point and knew its boundaries. W&W ( weaker than Trick imo) was their last attempt at Symph prog but they were obviously not alone in moving away from long tracks towards the back end of the eighties. However they could make it work for a while then the 80's fried everyone's brain for a while.
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M27Barney
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The title track is very poor. And I feel that some of the tracks could be improved with extension and reprise of the musical motifs. Not better than any of the four albums that precedes it...
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SquonkHunter
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I was 19 years old at the time ATOTT was released. First, I was glad to see that Genesis had carried on as a band. Popular sentiment at the time was that they could not survive the loss of Peter Gabriel. Second, the album itself was great. Not only did they survive, they actually thrived. My favorite Genesis album to this day.
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"You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..."
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 22 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 16130 |
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I think I was 7 when it came out, so I wasn't aware of the band at all, in any incarnation.
I didn't hear Trick until around 1985. It remains my favourite Genesis album. Brilliant. I'd heard Trick, ATTWT and Genesis (Shapes) before I heard any Gabriel era stuff. I heard the Lamb next, and my mind was completely blown, and The Lamb remains joint second fave with Foxtrot I guess. |
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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Epping Forest was an instrumental peice that gabriel then added the lyrics to. Perhaps there is too much going on for some people. But as prog lyrics go I think that Gabriel nails the zeitgeist of sixties gangland culture. Fine comedic social comment. Banks and collins tried to do the same with Robbery, Assault n Battery...but fail miserably...After Harold the Barrel, the lyrics in battle are the best comedy lyrics Genesis did...
Edited by M27Barney - September 23 2019 at 01:30 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26436 |
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not really paying attention ..you know how much I hate Epping Forest . More Fool Me doesn't fit well either and I Know What I like is just boring. On top of that the live version of Cinema Show is so much better. Dancing With The Moonlit Knight and Firth Of Fifth though are great and rescue the album.
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cstack3
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My college roommate, Wayne, detested Gabriel-era Genesis, so I used to enjoy taunting him with it. When "Voyage of the Acolyte" came out, I played it for him and he really enjoyed it! I pointed out that most of the players were from Genesis, and he just went *harummph!* or some such.
I wanted to spring "Trick" on him, but he heard it before I could get my hands on him....predictably, he not only became a huge fan of TOTT, but of all Genesis, including Gabriel's era. It was quite hilarious! I only saw Genesis on their ATTWT tour, which was excellent (with Wayne, of course!). Seeing them with Bruford would have been quite amazing!
Edited by cstack3 - September 22 2019 at 22:52 |
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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After the ordeal could also be replaced by an even more extended opening track...
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dougmcauliffe
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Am I the only person that doesn’t think more fool me is bad, I’d say after the ordeal is the “worst” track if I HAD to chose one |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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I find it strange that anybody would rate SEBTP so low. Admittedly more fool me is so sh*te it is the iceberg that holes the flawless titanic beneath the waterline...If you replaced that awful track with an extended Firth of Fifth you would put a country mile between that release and every other symphonic prog album ever made...
Edited by M27Barney - September 22 2019 at 06:45 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26436 |
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1.Trick (5.0) 2.Fox (5.0) 3.Three (4.5) 4.Lamb (4.0) 5.Cryme (4.0) 6.Duke (3.5) 7.Selling (3.5) 8.Trespass (3.5) 9.Wind (3.5) The post |
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pussywillow
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Well I wasn't that keen at the time, mainly because I'd been brought up on the humour and lyrical adroitness of Selling England and the brilliance of The Lamb, and felt sad that Pete Gabriel had gone.
However I soon got hooked on this and, along with my brother, we looked forward to the new direction the band was taking. I stayed onboard until And Then there were three, and jumped ship thereafter. For me, Trick of the Tail comes 3rd behind England and Lamb. |
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PussyWillow is the best distillation of the classic Tull formula, juxtaposing Anderson's gruff but expressive vocals and a strong, insistent melody bolstered by well-placed, crunchy guitar chords.
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rogerthat
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Sure, I got that that's what you meant and was agreeing with you. That is, that the accessibility of Trick of the tail is deceptive because it's still full fledged prog.
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Psychedelic Paul
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When I heard "Trick of the Tail" for the first time, Phil Collins sounded so much like Peter Gabriel that it took me awhile to realise that Genesis had a new singer in the band.
"Ripples" on the "Trick of the Tail" album is one of my favourite Genesis songs, although I much prefer Annie Haslam's (of Renaissance) version. "From Genesis To Revelation" is my all-time favourite Genesis album, closely followed by "Selling England by the Pound".
Edited by Psychedelic Paul - September 21 2019 at 06:36 |
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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Here is my order of precedence...
1. England. 2. Foxtrot. 3. Cryme. 4. Lamb. 5. Trespass. 6. Wuthering 7. Tail. The post 1977 releases are several magnitudes inferior obviously... |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26436 |
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Apples and Oranges. There is no right or wrong with music. Lamb kicks pretty much beats everything if you just take the good bits. Genesis up to Trick were probably the most important and influential prog band although Tony Banks was never a great keyboard innovator like Keith Emerson or Rick Wakeman which is why I need other stuff. Lyrically though they wiped the floor with almost everything bar VDGG and maybe Tull. It's just great that we don't have to subtract anything and can have it all!
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