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How many here listens contemporary classical music
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moshkito View Drop Down
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    Posted: June 10 2020 at 08:02
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

One thing that we have not heard, and I'm not sure that it has been released, or that it will be, was an evening of Edgar Froese music done by an orchestra in Germany before he changed to a cosmic address ... and my guess is that it was not that good, or that great, but I think it is a good start ... even KS was invited and he had nice things to say.
...
 
I'd be curious to hear that but I'm skeptical. Edgar Froese is so much about the sound. I can imagine orchestral versions to work (albeit in a quite different way), but then I can also imagine this to go wrong, as it subtracts something essential the music was about.

EF would be ideal for classical music, since his compositions, even though are about the "sound" are very classically minded which the current TD does not know about or understand since they came up with the machines and not the "music" itself.

EF's material, specially when you see the band in concert from 2000 to 2015, was about adding another bit and piece on top, sort of like adding an instrument to the whole, and my fun take on this is that it was music with 20/25 different lines of music on the musical sheet, where as the average rock band it all fits in 5 to 6 different lines of music, and ... MOVE ASIDE ... here comes the solo!
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Another prog musician who released a nice album of (more or less) classical piano music - not really very modern but at least some time around end 19th century "modern" (so should be fine for those who don't like things becoming too atonal).
He's Cardiacs keyboarder who also has some nice folk proggy solo albums, in case you wondered.


Edited by Lewian - June 09 2020 at 08:49
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

One thing that we have not heard, and I'm not sure that it has been released, or that it will be, was an evening of Edgar Froese music done by an orchestra in Germany before he changed to a cosmic address ... and my guess is that it was not that good, or that great, but I think it is a good start ... even KS was invited and he had nice things to say.

But, not sure why, no one else knows or says anything about it ... and my guess is that the music created for it with an orchestra of his material did not work as well as it should have, and my take on this is that the person at the top needed to be familiar with electronic music, and my thoughts are the he wasn't ... but I don't know at all, since there is so little information about it.

I'd be curious to hear that but I'm skeptical. Edgar Froese is so much about the sound. I can imagine orchestral versions to work (albeit in a quite different way), but then I can also imagine this to go wrong, as it subtracts something essential the music was about.
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Hi,

Just heard the Keith Emerson Tribute and its orchestration of a lot of Keith's music, is excellent, and probably what I envision to be an orchestra with a rock band, though in this case, it was more "classical" than it was rock music oriented, and it was an excellent way to show Keith's music as a magnificent composer he was, and how well his music will be remembered.

It also helps that someone like Rachel Flowers is helping make this stuff seen as a lot more than just a rock song ... something that is hard for "progressive" folks to relate to because it does  not have the "sound" that it is supposed to have ... I have already heard someone say that if that was released today, without ELP, that it would not be considered "progressive" or that it would NOT get an audience like it can now ... and somehow, that just brought tears to my eyes. The most cynical comment I have heard, from a fanboy, that would not know music from a song, from the disturbing definition of "progressive music" in most websites.


Edited by moshkito - June 09 2020 at 08:26
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Jaketejas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by The Anders The Anders wrote:

An interesting phenomenon btw. is when people from the classical world are trying to turn rock into classical. The results are not always successful. I once heard a CD with orchestral versions of songs from The Wall and The Dark Side of the Moon; it was insufferable, and very much felt like a trivialization of the original music to me.

I also very much prefer the original Low album to Philip Glass' Low Symphony.

You jogged a memory.  Mum was listening to ... what we used to call "muzak" ... and she was really enjoying this one piece in particular.  I thought "Huh?  I know that tune!  That's Led Zeppelin!"  We teased her about how she was rocker at heart.

Usually, it was "Turn down that awful racket !!  One day, I hope you have a child who is just like you!"  Parental prophecies almost always come true.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

^He doesn't seem to be doing any wild movements that you described at either one minute and eight or one hour and eight although closer would be the latter.

When I saw him, he was a bit younger and spun around and around for an incredible length of time.  Here, he is a bit older, but still does some spinning at 1:09:50.  I backed the time up a bit so you could prepare for the moment.  That particular song is off of Taproot, which is my other favorite album by him.

Michael Hedges' music was, thankfully, difficult to categorize.  They threw him in with the New Age bunch, but much of it defies that label.  There is one trick-of-the-trade of his, in particular, that I have always found to be fascinating and quite progressive, and I'm not talking about his percussive effects or harmonics.  It is something that took me years to wrap my head around, so forgive me for not divulging it.
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We're waiting until tomorrow for other potential submissions.  The 3 previous ones had 15 each, we're not quite there yet.  Worth checking out the previous ones, too, just for fun.
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Michael Hedges? No, but then again neither are most solo guitarists(Ackerman, De Grassi, Fahey, Legg, etc).
  Yes, makes sense....one of the poll rules is that whatever is presented NOT be on PA.  

Sorry for the confusion. I was just responding to your comment that he wasn't on PA. I'll have to look at that poll more closely though. Why hasn't anyone voted in it yet though? 


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 05 2020 at 10:10
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2dogs View Drop Down
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(Removed mention of offputting noise).

Edited by 2dogs - June 05 2020 at 22:46
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Hi,

One thing that we have not heard, and I'm not sure that it has been released, or that it will be, was an evening of Edgar Froese music done by an orchestra in Germany before he changed to a cosmic address ... and my guess is that it was not that good, or that great, but I think it is a good start ... even KS was invited and he had nice things to say.

But, not sure why, no one else knows or says anything about it ... and my guess is that the music created for it with an orchestra of his material did not work as well as it should have, and my take on this is that the person at the top needed to be familiar with electronic music, and my thoughts are the he wasn't ... but I don't know at all, since there is so little information about it.
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Snicolette View Drop Down
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Michael Hedges? No, but then again neither are most solo guitarists(Ackerman, De Grassi, Fahey, Legg, etc).
  Yes, makes sense....one of the poll rules is that whatever is presented NOT be on PA.  
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moshkito View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

...
I think the main problem about collaborations of Symphony Orchestra and Rock music is, that arrangements are too close to the original piece. 
...
Hi,

Agreed, sort of just playing the melody ... but in the case of some rock bands, this clashes with the solo and other parts.

Originally posted by Mortte Mortte wrote:

...
Anyway I think Purple in their Concerto and the Nice in Five Bridges succeeded quite good. Of course "Atom Heart Mother" is masterpiece, but there isn´t full symphony orchestra.

When that came out, you should have heard the station laugh at DP and how they had "sold out" ... it was sad in many ways, fans not appreciating great music ... The Nice had been doing a lot of stuff that was classical in design, and it carried on some in their follow up REFUGEE ... and things changed a wee bit in ELP, however, they got right back to it with a whole album of Mussorgsky and later their own work.

ATM, for me, is exceptional, and I wish that all the 15 different versions would be released, including the one that Roland Petit used in Paris for the show with ballet and the ATM piece, which I don't know if it is the right one or not, but it sounded like a lullaby all the way through more or less. The sad event, was one that a rock audience trashed senselessly, because they could never appreciate a ballet!

One other album that is excellent is CARAVAN's (The New Synphonia) which has a live orchestra that they had a lot of problems with (time for tea, time for lunch, time for a pee, time to be an as4hole, etc, etc) and in the end they did not want to come out for an encore ... and when Pye apparently said ... fine, we'll do it ourselves ... a minute later the orchestra showed up. The show had some very nice moments and the use of the orchestra was probably one of the best ever done! And the thought that it could have been better ... 

I like ELP's thing, but I'm not sure that comparing it to the original comes out right ... I would rather an orchestra included a synthesizer to augment the strings (for example) and also add some touches that the band would not be able to do ... a sort of the ending 15 minutes of "For Girls That Grow Plump In The Night", which is one of the best and prettiest pieces mixing the two I have ever heard. It's not only composed right, it is mixed right, and the connections work great.

For the most part though, most rock bands are afraid of an orchestra, and vice versa ... many orchestras fear the synthesizer with do away with them sooner or later ... and conversely, with folks doing guitar solos on keyboards (even TD is doing that now sampling EF and BB and JF as well!!!), which is not something that most rock bands like or appreciate.

I think that in the next 50 years, this separation will come together even more ... and hopefully be able to create a lot more music for the annals of time!
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Michael Hedges? No, but then again neither are most solo guitarists(Ackerman, De Grassi, Fahey, Legg, etc).

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 05 2020 at 08:53
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He's not in PA, perhaps you might want to consider to add one by him on the Interactive Poll #4.  These have been fun, wide variety of music presented there.  http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=123139&PID=5770002#5770002
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^He doesn't seem to be doing any wild movements that you described at either one minute and eight or one hour and eight although closer would be the latter.

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - June 05 2020 at 08:48
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https://youtu.be/r4AysS-WN0A

It took some searching, but around 1:08 he does a bit. When I saw him do this in concert, it was for a different song and he spun round and round for quite a long time. And, he had long hair when I saw him, so it was this blur of hair emanating this amazing music. Thank goodness for bootlegs.

Good night!


Edited by Jaketejas - June 04 2020 at 23:32
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I didn't know that, but could certainly see it happening.  Smile
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Yes, it was very tragic. He was quite the entertainer. He could play the most complicated pieces and then, while he was doing that, he would suddenly spin around rapidly on stage like a human tornado. One time he brought out a large ball and would do tricks while playing. He had tremendous balance. What a character! He was like a modern day jongleur.
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Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:

Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:



You’re telling me that he experienced all that AND he is married to a Prog enthusiast? Your husband is, to quote ELP, a Lucky Man!


Well, we were both very lucky, although he's gone to the other side, now.  Still, I smile every day when I think of him, because of how we changed each other's lives for the better.


I’m so sorry for your loss. Those are some wonderful memories, indeed. I was reminiscing a bit listening to Michael Hedges. What an amazing life he had. When I lived in Oklahoma for a short time, it was always a treat when he passed through his home state.
  

Thank you, I probably should have made it more clear in my first post.  I didn't know Michael Hedges was from OK orginally, how wonderful that you were able to see him while he was alive.  He was also taken way too soon from us.  The road he drove off of is very treacherous, on the way to the Mendocino coast from the SF Bay Area.  
"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Jaketejas View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by Jaketejas Jaketejas wrote:



You’re telling me that he experienced all that AND he is married to a Prog enthusiast? Your husband is, to quote ELP, a Lucky Man!


Well, we were both very lucky, although he's gone to the other side, now.  Still, I smile every day when I think of him, because of how we changed each other's lives for the better.


I’m so sorry for your loss. Those are some wonderful memories, indeed. I was reminiscing a bit listening to Michael Hedges. What an amazing life he had. When I lived in Oklahoma for a short time, it was always a treat when he passed through his home state.
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