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Songs "sinister"/"evil" as Master Builder - Gong
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cstack3 View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 14 2020 at 09:08
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Howlett sure is something - I mean keeping up with Moerlen and being creative at it. Certainly a bassist who doesn’t receive much praise as he deserves.

Hi,

Agreed! Ten times over! 

One of my favorite quotes ... when he was warming up in Eugene ... "is it too bass'y?" ... I'm thinking he was too worried about taking the limelight from others when the whole aspect should be the music as a whole, not one instrument. On top of it, his bass guitar was falling apart at the top ... the little piece that holds the strings up a bit had crumbled and they could not find one that fit and someone actually built one to fit within an hour!

Great story, M! 

I was blessed to see Gong on two consecutive nights at a smallish club in Chicago, "Cubby Bear," March 10-11, 1996....they were amazing!  Daevid, Bloomdido, Mike Howlett etc. and Stefi Sharpstrings on guitar....

Howlett was playing his very beat-up orange Fender Precision bass guitar and lit the place up!  One of my most memorable concerts, ever!

OP may want to revisit LTIA era King Crimson for music reminiscent of the style of Gong "You."  
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Howlett sure is something - I mean keeping up with Moerlen and being creative at it. Certainly a bassist who doesn’t receive much praise as he deserves.


Hi,

Agreed! Ten times over! 

One of my favorite quotes ... when he was warming up in Eugene ... "is it too bass'y?" ... I'm thinking he was too worried about taking the limelight from others when the whole aspect should be the music as a whole, not one instrument. On top of it, his bass guitar was falling apart at the top ... the little piece that holds the strings up a bit had crumbled and they could not find one that fit and someone actually built one to fit within an hour!
Cool story !! Howlett was on fire for the Shamal album. I loved what Christian Tritsch was doing, but enter Mike Howlett, and he hit it out of the park !! Hands down the best bassist Gong ever recruited.
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Howlett sure is something - I mean keeping up with Moerlen and being creative at it. Certainly a bassist who doesn’t receive much praise as he deserves.

Hi,

Agreed! Ten times over! 

One of my favorite quotes ... when he was warming up in Eugene ... "is it too bass'y?" ... I'm thinking he was too worried about taking the limelight from others when the whole aspect should be the music as a whole, not one instrument. On top of it, his bass guitar was falling apart at the top ... the little piece that holds the strings up a bit had crumbled and they could not find one that fit and someone actually built one to fit within an hour!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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A trippy feel can be a very subjective experience also. And can convey a color pallet of variation in your psyche. Also sounds and the fusion of rythem, melody and harmony can produce a seductive/sinister/erousing/erotic/jolly mood. This track in particular have an undertone that to me is uncanny./ insomoniactic feel. Like a wild dream in a hot midsummer with to warm nights. Absint induced
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Points: 15926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 05:15
Howlett sure is something - I mean keeping up with Moerlen and being creative at it. Certainly a bassist who doesn’t receive much praise as he deserves.
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The statement that Master Builder is "evil/sinister" is a statement about an emotional response to the music more than the music itself, and as such clearly subjective. This is how Icarium perceives it, and there is no right or wrong in such perceptions, it is just how it is. It looks like nobody except Mosh thinks that this is a statement about the actual people who made up Gong! I can certainly see where Icarium is coming from! I'd say Master Builder has something relentless about it, something that will not let you go. That's not too far from evil/sinister maybe. The tracks that I have posted for me all have this kind of driving relentless quality that I see in Master Builder, and they're also "dark" in mood, although of course I have to admit that literally nobody can keep up with Pierre, Mike, Steve, Didier... in full flight!


Edited by Lewian - May 14 2020 at 04:16
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...and further cool 80s music not listed on PA:
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...and of course...
 
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Sortie vers la ville by Laurent Pernice. Phantastic album, not listed on PA, should fit here:


Edited by Lewian - May 13 2020 at 15:04
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...the whole album is outright evil... in a good way.
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Points: 34090 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2020 at 08:38
I believe the main riff in "Master Builder" is in ohrygian mode, or that is what my quick hearing, and than listening to an example of the phrygian scale, feel like. And that mode have a middle eastern way about it, i dont recall which mode often is deemed the"agressive" or "tension" mode but its either phrygian or dorian mode.

Edited by Icarium - May 13 2020 at 08:39
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Points: 34090 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Icarium Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2020 at 08:27
^ thanks for good reccomendations.

other things i like about this song is that it sounds stil very fresh and it stands out, Very unique song and a highlight in live circumstances

Edited by Icarium - May 13 2020 at 08:30
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Points: 38516 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2020 at 08:24
While I might not have described “Master Builder” as sinister sounding really, I don’t have a problem with that being one’s reaction. I’d say that it has certain mystical qualities that might come across as rather ominous/ eerie in a way. The first music to come to my mind on seeing this topic is Bobby Beausoleil’s Lucifer Rising, which also spacey, mystical qualities. Bobby Beasoleil recorded it in prison with other prisoners calling themselves The Freedom Orchestra for Kenneth Anger’s film due to BB’s incarceration (life sentence commuted from the death penalty) for the Manson ordered murder. Sinister story aside, Lucifer Rising might sonically fit the bill quite well.

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIiJOzCU50vMiOSI_EhcFsTGKRj4kDSId
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Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ I think you smoked too much......🤪

Hi,

Sorry ... never did ... I did not like it, and by the time I saw PF, I had already stopped altogether.

And one of the saddest moments I have EVER witnessed, was the day of the PF concert in LA where 714 people were arrested before getting into the building, and right during the show (The Wall), people were getting removed by narcs from the stands right next to you like ... probably another 100 or 200 ... it was not only ugly, it was pathetic!

There is more "evil" in that "persecution" than there was in the dope and the folks doing it, btw! And that would be "evil" that is personified by churches and media!

Now, where do you stand on the freedom of music ... and specially "progressive music"? It has nothing to do with dope, or the album would not have been named YOU ... (for those that didn't get it!)
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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^ I think you smoked too much......🤪
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Originally posted by someone_else someone_else wrote:

Qualifying Master Builder (and its intro Magick Mother Invocation) as "sinister" is hit and miss imho. It's the trippy kind of thing in a positive sense. And let's add A Sprinkling of Clouds to complete the trilogy, these should be listened together without interruption.

Hi,

And one might even say that the 2nd part is sort of ... stoned immaculate ... where you are not sure what will work or not in the sound or instrument ... and you slowly pick until you find something ... 

The whole side 2 of that album is a trip from beginning to end ... plain and simple. The only sinister thing in it, is people getting paranoid that their church and girlfriend, or parents are going to find out that you got stoned ... immaculate ... as Jim Morrison did say, but this is an area where most folks will NEVER experience to even know what is going on.

Too much of music these days is "idealistic" by comparison to the extended plays of a lot of music 50 years ago, which was about "experimentation" and in some cases ... how the drug affected you.

I think, it is important that folks see this ... because the comments here are more "anti-drugs" and "church/parent related ideas" than they are real ... again, people thinking that GONG has evil in them, and Harry Potter doesn't ... are barking up the wrong tree. More evil was on the side of one man that ripped off the band, than all the members and music combined!

I can't believe that 50 years later we still go around saying and thinking that dope was the problem ... that created paranoia ... which was already there in the person, anyway!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 24810 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote someone_else Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 12 2020 at 06:48
Qualifying Master Builder (and its intro Magick Mother Invocation) as "sinister" is hit and miss imho. It's the trippy kind of thing in a positive sense. And let's add A Sprinkling of Clouds to complete the trilogy, these should be listened together without interruption.
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^^Sinister as in the actual sound of the song, regardless of whose playing, Master Builder has a somewhat menacing and evil sound to it.
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

Having known both Daevid, Gilli and Mike, I am not sure that there is a single ounce of "evil" in any of them.

As an example, when they were here on a Western part of their tour, I spent time with them a lot and took pictures, and going around with Gilli to Fred Meyer's so she could get fun stuff, one of her complaint was that the "stories" invented around Halloween (it was during that time of the year), were horrible and made the whole thing seem worse than it really was.

She was not what folks might call a "witch", even if her characterization at times comes out like that ... but she did say that attraction/reflection is a real problem, and she was much more modern of a spiritual person, than anything else, as was Daevid.

You don't go around teaching meditation and guitar stuff (glissando specially!) when "sinister" is the course. And for Gilli, you don't do "Mother Gong" for sinister purposes. The setting and the time of its story (specially the whole Robot Woman thing), is more about a whole society's madness and malicious thinking than it is real.

It's rather sad, for me, to see that someone thinks that there is something sinister here ... it is much more a trip and how it escalates to a point where it seems everything is just nutz and crazy, and yet ... it's not ... there it is ... musically sound and done. But I am not sure that many people have actually tried these things with psychedelics, and most are still smoking their "cigarettes" with grass that is not even conducive to a good trip anymore and is so laced with crap as to distort your trip ... and confuse you even more!

There is a lot more sinister and evil in things like Harry Potter, than there will ever be in GONG.

You don't go around saying "Welcome Magick Brothers and Mystic Sisters ..." because you dislike people ... you do this because it is like inviting everyone to a special party where we love and appreciate each and everyone for their differences and work. And for them, it was more about the artistic side of it all, than anything else. Both Daevid and Gilli, were the "BEAT WRITERS" of music and poetry ... and I am scared of even thinking that the further bus trips are "sinister and evil" when you see the reality in front of you the whole time ... it's an individual thing and some folks can't handle it and think that it is bad, because they like a more ordered universe around them ... for others ... its an experience in one's life ... out of many!

Moshman - i don’t think he literally meant ‘sinister’ as such. Perhaps the correct term could be mysterious or mystical.
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To follow up my original comment, try this.




Edited by dougmcauliffe - May 11 2020 at 19:19
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