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    Posted: October 15 2020 at 06:14
Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

There's this band called STAR KILL (exactly what you think it is, LOL) that literally play TO THEIR OWN ALBUM, in their in ears, every single show. You literally couldn't get more robotic than that and try to pass it off as a "live" "performance", lol.

Oh dear! LOL
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There's this band called STAR KILL (exactly what you think it is, LOL) that literally play TO THEIR OWN ALBUM, in their in ears, every single show. You literally couldn't get more robotic than that and try to pass it off as a "live" "performance", lol.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Yes, but every new artist sings live with autotune against pre recorded backing music, so what are they complaining about? They're probably annoyed that they can't stretch out in a bed! I think I should stop there. LOL
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Prog is no more a part of popular culture, which is the center of a young person's orbit, than classic rock, jazz or opera is. How can Yes compete with Lady Gaga? LOL

Ziggzatly.  As much as I'd wish it was, it isn't.  

Forget prog, a really good R&B artist with serious chops like Lianne La Havas has a hard time fighting through the autotuned, overcompressed universe of contemporary pop.  It's gotten so that somebody habituated to listening to the production on say Taylor Swift albums would think something is 'wrong' with the way Lianne's albums are recorded. LOL
Omg, I didn't think of that. A young person's perception of music is also warped! Shocked

It's a before/after Loudness Wars scenario. Add autotune.  I hear younger ones complain when a live performance isn't absolutely pitch perfect.  Um, it kind of wouldn't be often times if it's real, that's the point of live.
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Prog is no more a part of popular culture, which is the center of a young person's orbit, than classic rock, jazz or opera is. How can Yes compete with Lady Gaga? LOL

Ziggzatly.  As much as I'd wish it was, it isn't.  

Forget prog, a really good R&B artist with serious chops like Lianne La Havas has a hard time fighting through the autotuned, overcompressed universe of contemporary pop.  It's gotten so that somebody habituated to listening to the production on say Taylor Swift albums would think something is 'wrong' with the way Lianne's albums are recorded. LOL
Omg, I didn't think of that. A young person's perception of music is also warped! Shocked
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Prog is no more a part of popular culture, which is the center of a young person's orbit, than classic rock, jazz or opera is. How can Yes compete with Lady Gaga? LOL

Ziggzatly.  As much as I'd wish it was, it isn't.  

Forget prog, a really good R&B artist with serious chops like Lianne La Havas has a hard time fighting through the autotuned, overcompressed universe of contemporary pop.  It's gotten so that somebody habituated to listening to the production on say Taylor Swift albums would think something is 'wrong' with the way Lianne's albums are recorded. LOL
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Prog is no more a part of popular culture, which is the center of a young person's orbit, than classic rock, jazz or opera is. How can Yes compete with Lady Gaga? LOL
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:


Lonely fart? Lol. Anyway, well I think there's a lot of people probably mostly younger who got more into or maybe even discovered prog through not just their friends but also facebook groups, reddit, on here or maybe some other social media platform. It's unlikely they know about it through the radio these days. Seeing Pink Floyd, Rush, Opeth, Dream Theater or Tool or whoever on the cover of PROG magazine is another possibility.

OK, the way I see it is the ones who are curious enough to get to prog at all will sureshot get to KC and especially this album because it's now like a holy grail of prog.  But that's a small minority of young people in general.  They don't listen to the radio so much but they get their cues from whatever's trending on spotify or youtube and it's very rare that that's anything prog. 

I will give you an example here.  Albeit I am not from America so things could be different there but I chat with music listeners online (not just here but forums like reddit) and I doubt it's radically different from what I see.  When I went to see Iron Maiden live in 2007, I was 22 and the vast majority of people in the crowd were in my age group or even a little younger, though there were some older fans too.  Last year, I saw German prog metal band The Ocean and most people in the audience were...still in my age group.  And maybe a little older in some cases.  Not many youngsters to be found.  This even though tickets for this gig were dirt cheap (smaller band plus it was a passion project for the concert promoter so he took the hit). When I went to a music festival of local bands too, I didn't see too many in the 20s in the metal section.  

This may not be a very welcome point of view in these parts but I think the energy of the youth has moved quite a lot to hip hop in the last decade.  Heck, it's in the last year or so that I, as someone who in 07 would have spouted the 'rap is not music' position, got interested in hip hop and still very much am.  There is a general fatigue with rock because it's become rarer and rarer to find something cutting edge that also has critical mass.  There are amazing bands out there but rarely are they the ones that are most talked about.  

And the cutting edge bands don't tend to name drop prog much for whatever reason.  Maybe there is still a hangover of the age-old stigma about prog. I remember when Everything Everything debuted with Man Alive, I found out about them on this forum.  Because their style holds some appeal to Gentle Giant fans (at least the style on that album).  In later albums, they have toned down the complexity a little and also started charting a lot better and get decent major outlet coverage.  But I haven't seen them talk much, if at all, about prog.  

If you are in your 20's that is a youngster especially in prog circles. Even 30's is relatively young although maybe not quite a "youngster."

I never heard of that band(EE) and don't see them listed on this website. 

Anyway, prog is still a niche genre and compared to the larger population relatively few are into it or even know about it. I think most music people and those who are really into music at least heard of it(like I said before). Does your average person know about it? No, probably not. That being said there's probably more(maybe even a lot more)prog fans than you might think there are. I've been to shows by Black Sabbath, Rush and Yes where even at these shows random people seemed to know about prog and not just older guys. Even at an Ozric Tentacles show which was mostly younger people who are into jam band stuff some seemed to know about the prog underground. Also, at my local bank the two younger guys working there knew about prog and this has happened before. Usually I don't get the opportunity to find out the musical tastes of random people but it has happened more to me then I would expect. The first time I witnessed it I was at a bar and over heard a conversation in which a guy told his friends he likes "progressive music." His friends(a guy and young woman)didn't seem to know what he meant(the one guy said "I know what progressive trance" is or something like that). The guy responded with something like "no, I mean bands like Rush." The guy was probably in his early twenties at the time and this was around 2003 maybe. So prog fans are definitely out there and you never know when you will run into one.

I am not saying anything like there are no prog fans or such.  I am definitely saying interest in prog among youngsters is low.  Mostly because they don't know about such a thing.  In general, as music becomes more and more something that we consume through devices, mainstream pop music is going to dominate the minds of listeners.  You are going to practically have two separate echo chambers.  One with the casual listeners who don't want to stretch and make the effort to find out about bands from other genres that nobody's told them about. The other with the clued in listeners who know where to look.  
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:


Lonely fart? Lol. Anyway, well I think there's a lot of people probably mostly younger who got more into or maybe even discovered prog through not just their friends but also facebook groups, reddit, on here or maybe some other social media platform. It's unlikely they know about it through the radio these days. Seeing Pink Floyd, Rush, Opeth, Dream Theater or Tool or whoever on the cover of PROG magazine is another possibility.

OK, the way I see it is the ones who are curious enough to get to prog at all will sureshot get to KC and especially this album because it's now like a holy grail of prog.  But that's a small minority of young people in general.  They don't listen to the radio so much but they get their cues from whatever's trending on spotify or youtube and it's very rare that that's anything prog. 

I will give you an example here.  Albeit I am not from America so things could be different there but I chat with music listeners online (not just here but forums like reddit) and I doubt it's radically different from what I see.  When I went to see Iron Maiden live in 2007, I was 22 and the vast majority of people in the crowd were in my age group or even a little younger, though there were some older fans too.  Last year, I saw German prog metal band The Ocean and most people in the audience were...still in my age group.  And maybe a little older in some cases.  Not many youngsters to be found.  This even though tickets for this gig were dirt cheap (smaller band plus it was a passion project for the concert promoter so he took the hit). When I went to a music festival of local bands too, I didn't see too many in the 20s in the metal section.  

This may not be a very welcome point of view in these parts but I think the energy of the youth has moved quite a lot to hip hop in the last decade.  Heck, it's in the last year or so that I, as someone who in 07 would have spouted the 'rap is not music' position, got interested in hip hop and still very much am.  There is a general fatigue with rock because it's become rarer and rarer to find something cutting edge that also has critical mass.  There are amazing bands out there but rarely are they the ones that are most talked about.  

And the cutting edge bands don't tend to name drop prog much for whatever reason.  Maybe there is still a hangover of the age-old stigma about prog. I remember when Everything Everything debuted with Man Alive, I found out about them on this forum.  Because their style holds some appeal to Gentle Giant fans (at least the style on that album).  In later albums, they have toned down the complexity a little and also started charting a lot better and get decent major outlet coverage.  But I haven't seen them talk much, if at all, about prog.  

If you are in your 20's that is a youngster especially in prog circles. Even 30's is relatively young although maybe not quite a "youngster."

I never heard of that band(EE) and don't see them listed on this website. 

Anyway, prog is still a niche genre and compared to the larger population relatively few are into it or even know about it. I think most music people and those who are really into music at least heard of it(like I said before). Does your average person know about it? No, probably not. That being said there's probably more(maybe even a lot more)prog fans than you might think there are. I've been to shows by Black Sabbath, Rush and Yes where even at these shows random people seemed to know about prog and not just older guys. Even at an Ozric Tentacles show which was mostly younger people who are into jam band stuff some seemed to know about the prog underground. Also, at my local bank the two younger guys working there knew about prog and this has happened before. Usually I don't get the opportunity to find out the musical tastes of random people but it has happened more to me then I would expect. The first time I witnessed it I was at a bar and over heard a conversation in which a guy told his friends he likes "progressive music." His friends(a guy and young woman)didn't seem to know what he meant(the one guy said "I know what progressive trance" is or something like that). The guy responded with something like "no, I mean bands like Rush." The guy was probably in his early twenties at the time and this was around 2003 maybe. So prog fans are definitely out there and you never know when you will run into one.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 14 2020 at 09:41
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And Michael Giles must be one of the most underrated drummers in prog. The guy was just a monster!

It has been said that Neil Peart was a fan and claimed Giles influenced him.
It's good to know that at least one other person appreciated him besides me. Wink

I swear I've also read Bruford singing his praises, as well!

Tbh, I know that other drummers held him in high regard but not too many prog fans.


Edited by SteveG - October 14 2020 at 05:12
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And Michael Giles must be one of the most underrated drummers in prog. The guy was just a monster!

It has been said that Neil Peart was a fan and claimed Giles influenced him.
It's good to know that at least one other person appreciated him besides me. Wink

I swear I've also read Bruford singing his praises, as well!

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And that's just it. ItCotCK, for most members, is a big deal here where it should be. We don't care if other rock fans know about. They will know less about groups like Magma and Can, which some here worship.

Exactly.

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Like the outside world, I suppose that prog fans have their social cliques too. LOL
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And that's just it. ItCotCK, for most members, is a big deal here where it should be. We don't care if other rock fans know about. They will know less about groups like Magma and Can, which some here worship.

Heck, outside this space, the prog fans I know in real life give me a weird look when I say I am listening to the track Visit To Newport Hospital. ConfusedLOL  I am like, dude, that's a pretty well known Canterbury band.  But ah, even Canterbury is on the weird side for the 20-30 something 'young' proghead who will supplement a diet of Rush-DT-Opeth with some classic prog like, again, KC, Genesis, Yes, JT and going up to Gentle Giant at the most.  Camel is strangely popular in my demographic because Akerfeldt talks about them a lot. 
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And that's just it. ItCotCK, for most members, is a big deal here where it should be. We don't care if other rock fans know about. They will know less about groups like Magma and Can, which some here worship.

Edited by SteveG - October 13 2020 at 10:08
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:


Lonely fart? Lol. Anyway, well I think there's a lot of people probably mostly younger who got more into or maybe even discovered prog through not just their friends but also facebook groups, reddit, on here or maybe some other social media platform. It's unlikely they know about it through the radio these days. Seeing Pink Floyd, Rush, Opeth, Dream Theater or Tool or whoever on the cover of PROG magazine is another possibility.

OK, the way I see it is the ones who are curious enough to get to prog at all will sureshot get to KC and especially this album because it's now like a holy grail of prog.  But that's a small minority of young people in general.  They don't listen to the radio so much but they get their cues from whatever's trending on spotify or youtube and it's very rare that that's anything prog. 

I will give you an example here.  Albeit I am not from America so things could be different there but I chat with music listeners online (not just here but forums like reddit) and I doubt it's radically different from what I see.  When I went to see Iron Maiden live in 2007, I was 22 and the vast majority of people in the crowd were in my age group or even a little younger, though there were some older fans too.  Last year, I saw German prog metal band The Ocean and most people in the audience were...still in my age group.  And maybe a little older in some cases.  Not many youngsters to be found.  This even though tickets for this gig were dirt cheap (smaller band plus it was a passion project for the concert promoter so he took the hit). When I went to a music festival of local bands too, I didn't see too many in the 20s in the metal section.  

This may not be a very welcome point of view in these parts but I think the energy of the youth has moved quite a lot to hip hop in the last decade.  Heck, it's in the last year or so that I, as someone who in 07 would have spouted the 'rap is not music' position, got interested in hip hop and still very much am.  There is a general fatigue with rock because it's become rarer and rarer to find something cutting edge that also has critical mass.  There are amazing bands out there but rarely are they the ones that are most talked about.  

And the cutting edge bands don't tend to name drop prog much for whatever reason.  Maybe there is still a hangover of the age-old stigma about prog. I remember when Everything Everything debuted with Man Alive, I found out about them on this forum.  Because their style holds some appeal to Gentle Giant fans (at least the style on that album).  In later albums, they have toned down the complexity a little and also started charting a lot better and get decent major outlet coverage.  But I haven't seen them talk much, if at all, about prog.  
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Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And Michael Giles must be one of the most underrated drummers in prog. The guy was just a monster!

It has been said that Neil Peart was a fan and claimed Giles influenced him.
It's good to know that at least one other person appreciated him besides me. Wink
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Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

These days "court" seems to be just about all over the place if you look for music recommendations and especially prog recommendations online. It's even in many non prog best of albums lists. I honestly don't see how most people won't eventually come across that red faced guy at some point unless they pay almost zero attention to music online.

I think that is the point. A lot of people, even younger people, don't necessarily go online for music recommendations.  As in, they would rather get recommendations from friends on social media or only listen to the songs recommended by Spotify/Pandora/Youtube than visit websites such as this one or RateYourMusic and search/ask around.  I was BORN after the 70s and I know about these bands only because I looked up the wiki page on progressive rock which somehow led me to progarchives.  There's no way you will come to know of these bands, especially not King Crimson who don't have pop hits like Lonely Fart or Illegal Alien, unless you visited the web as opposed to social media.  And the web, like PA, is moribund.

Lonely fart? Lol. Anyway, well I think there's a lot of people probably mostly younger who got more into or maybe even discovered prog through not just their friends but also facebook groups, reddit, on here or maybe some other social media platform. It's unlikely they know about it through the radio these days. Seeing Pink Floyd, Rush, Opeth, Dream Theater or Tool or whoever on the cover of PROG magazine is another possibility.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

And Michael Giles must be one of the most underrated drummers in prog. The guy was just a monster!

It has been said that Neil Peart was a fan and claimed Giles influenced him.
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And Michael Giles must be one of the most underrated drummers in prog. The guy was just a monster!
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

The group purposefully avoided what they considered to be a pop album sound. Check out the drum sound in The Wake Of Poseidon title track! Sounds like it was recorded in a closet!  

I know Steve!  I couldn't believe how totally different the drums sounded on "in The Wake" compared to the debut.  It's like they went so far to the other extreme as to be weird in an opposite way
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