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Topic ClosedComplex time signatures?
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Poll Question: Are we impressed?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
50 [71.43%]
4 [5.71%]
16 [22.86%]
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Plastic Man View Drop Down
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Points: 75 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Complex time signatures?
    Posted: November 28 2005 at 03:18
complex time signatures where all the instruments are in that signature isnt really much more interesting than 4/4, but when youve got polyrythm, then things get more interesting. it seems to make the possiblities of interpretation greater and longer lasting, and it sounds a lot fresher. just like polytonal stuff is like, infinately more interesting than stuff that..isnt polytonal.

for me, it just comes down to interest. if i see 2 different instruments that are interweaving with each other, and going up and down and revolving at different times, i just dig it a lot more, personally.


Edited by Plastic Man
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FragileDT View Drop Down
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Points: 1485 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2005 at 18:36
Originally posted by Ipacial Section Ipacial Section wrote:

Modern Prog is about as popular with the masses
as Hitler was at the Berlin Synagogues of 1936.


Actually Frances the Mute debuted at number 4 on the US billboard charts.
Pretty impressive for a great modern prog band that's trying something new
IMO.
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Points: 232 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2005 at 18:20
Cert1fied - have you heard Stockhausen's "Gruppen"?
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 17:41

Totally indifferent - it doesn't impress me one iota.

It depends on the piece of music - if the piece demands it, then sig. away.

I've written pieces that would be impossible to squeeze into either a common or even a single time signature, because the music simply didn't flow that way.

And since I studied Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring", the word "complex" when applied to time signatures has become meaningless. That piece is the great-grand daddy of all complex time signatures and signature changes.
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Points: 264 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 24 2005 at 17:11
Indifferent. I like odd/strange/comlex time signatures and I love trying to understand what is time signature of a song is but that doesnt make a song good or bad, so it does not impress me...
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Ipacial Section View Drop Down
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Points: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:30
Modern Prog is about as popular with the masses as Hitler was at the Berlin Synagogues of 1936.

Edited by Ipacial Section
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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:28
That would be funny if it made sense, but they're probably the most popular modern prog band at the moment, so I refuse to laugh .

Edited by Ty1020
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Points: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:25

Sorry, let me finish the sentence: You are one of the few people who like them for that reason. Because there are only a few people that actually like them, full stop.
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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:22
Originally posted by Ipacial Section Ipacial Section wrote:

You are one of the few people who like them for that reason.

Actually, no he's not. I don't know anybody (myself included) who doesn't like them for that reason. There's no way most people like TMV just because they use odd time signatures. That's ridiculous.
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Ipacial Section View Drop Down
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Points: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:19
You are one of the few people who like them for that reason.
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Points: 1485 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:16
Originally posted by Ipacial Section Ipacial Section wrote:

I'm not saying we should stick to 4/4.


I don't, so it would be hypocritical if i told everyone else to.


Complex time signatures have their place in music.


It's just when people get all chocked up about it, & start saying how
great bands like TMV are, just because they use complex time signatures.
That's what bothers me.


And if sticking to 4/4 really is like painting with just one colour. Then
getting all excited about a band using 29/16 is abit like getting excited
because a painting has more than 10 colours in it.



The Mars Volta aren't great because they use different time signatures
(because all in all, they don't use a third of the sig's that Dream Theater
uses.) They are great because their songs are well written and they
display emotions very very well.

EDIT: They also have a newer style of prog that's very interesting and
many people that listen to many different styles of music enjoy.

Edited by FragileDT
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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:07
Sorry, I'll admit that I didn't read your post in its entirety . It looks like we basically agree, then . I don't think it's necessarily the fact that bands use odd time signatures that impresses people though, it's how they use them. I'm not personally "impressed" by the use of odd time signatures, simply because, as I said, they're a fundamental staple of music, but there are lots of bands who use them really well and I'm impressed by that (that's not just limited to time signatures, though - I'm just impressed by bands who make good music).
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Points: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 16:01

You are just one of the many people in this thread who has missed the point. But thanks for joining in the discussion anyway. Just remember to read what i write properly next time.

I shall now quote myself....

I'm not saying we should stick to 4/4.

I don't, so it would be hypocritical if i told everyone else to.

Complex time signatures have their place in music.

It's just when people get all chocked up about it, & start saying how great bands like TMV are, just because they use complex time signatures. That's what bothers me.

And if sticking to 4/4 really is like painting with just one colour. Then getting all excited about a band using 29/16 is abit like getting excited because a painting has more than 10 colours in it.



Edited by Ipacial Section
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Ty1020 View Drop Down
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Points: 721 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 15:59
I don't understand why you're "not impressed." It's not like you're supposed to be impressed by them; they're time signatures . The use of odd time signatures just helps to keep music from becoming too monotonous since the whole world seems to be stuck in 4/4.

It's not like the use of these odd time signatures is exclusive to prog, and prog artists certainly weren't the first (or only) ones to use them. I'm in a concert band and a jazz band and the vast majority of the music we play is not in 4/4; most pieces feature multiple time signatures and switch back and forth throughout the song.

So, yeah, your poll is kind of silly. It's like saying "Dynamics: are we impressed?" or "Tempo: is it really all that great?" The use of other time signatures is just a part of music.


Edited by Ty1020
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goose View Drop Down
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Points: 4097 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 15:44
Originally posted by Ipacial Section Ipacial Section wrote:

They arn't Prog though. So no-one here will know them.
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Points: 1313 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 09:37
Originally posted by VanBuren VanBuren wrote:

it just sounds cool, don't look too mcuh into it


I agree!
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Ipacial Section View Drop Down
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Points: 124 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 08:54

Autechre use complex time signatures aswell. They arn't Prog though. So no-one here will know them. They make glitch music, & some it sounds as though there is no time signature. Yet, unlike alot of Prog bands that use these methods, it actually works.

Check out their new album Untilted (2005)



Edited by Ipacial Section
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Space Dimentia View Drop Down
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Points: 440 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 08:46

Im personally indifferent on the subject I enjoy to hear complex time signitures but sometimes its refeshing to hear something in bog-standard 4/4 time.

I play guitar and am in a prog rock band myself but when im just playing stuff for fun sometimes the stuff with a tricky time signiture can be easier to play than something in 4/4 time but this can also be the reverse. My band we dont go out of the way to use complex time signitures if we feel the song would sound better we put it in if not we will use 4/4 but then there is that part of your brain which is alittle mad and enjoys playing in a complex signiture. lol 
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Points: 2 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 08:40

Every song has a natural time, length and key. To just play "Math Rock" or odd bar measures for the sake of it is just like playing a certain chord because the fingering is awkward.

Some songs to check out for perfect use of odd meters. (When I say "Odd", I mean anything other than 4/4 or 3/4)

"Seven Days" - Sting

"Mission Impossible" - Theme Tune

"Golden Brown" - The Stranglers

"Sky Blue" - Peter Gabriel

"My Wave" - Soundgarden

Even "Thriteen" By Frank Zappa has a natural pulse.

 

Its music not maths.



Edited by monkfish
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Points: 21806 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2005 at 08:40
^ that's subjective. I really enjoy Planet X - MoonBabies, and they get VERY complex at times. It really makes sense and doesn't seem forced. And there are other bands that use relatively simple sigs like 7/4 or 5/4 and it feels unnatural and forced ... it really depends.
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