common prog generalisations |
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 16 2004 Location: Sao Tome and Pr Status: Offline Points: 5187 |
Topic: common prog generalisations Posted: January 04 2005 at 08:51 |
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Merely posting a tart response to his tart comment. As if I was face-to-face with the guy.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12803 |
Posted: January 04 2005 at 08:44 | |
Reed How are you measuring degrees of success? The Channel 4 Top Ten Progressive Rock Groups included Krimson with Yes, Genesis and ELP. And then some would argue much of Genesis success was achieved when the band had become a stadium rock/pop band. |
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threefates
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4215 |
Posted: January 04 2005 at 08:25 | |
Just proof there Cert that you don't pay attention as well as you should Since when would I start calling a dancer "some cat in a loin cloth"...
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THIS IS ELP
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threefates
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4215 |
Posted: January 04 2005 at 08:22 | |
I agree with you Bebe until you say they should of stayed together... if that had happened, I wouldn't have had my ELP.... and for that, I'm extremely grateful... |
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THIS IS ELP
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BebieM
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 01 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 854 |
Posted: January 04 2005 at 02:01 | |
please don't start putting KC down .... their first lineup made the best prog-LP ever, its the most creative, unique and beautiful stuff out there, and it came out of nowhere (since it was the first prog album). Please finally understand that!! They should've stayed together ... reading that booklet in my Epitaph-set almost makes me cry |
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aqualung28
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 03 2004 Status: Offline Points: 916 |
Posted: January 04 2005 at 00:55 | |
Yeah, I'm sure sick of that "clappi clappi" music but still , your statement is very true
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Rob The Good
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 17 2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 476 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 19:59 | |
I am actually NOT turned off by the self indulgent and pretentious nature of some Prog acts. I always thought it was a lot of fun! You can't fault people such as ELP & Yes for being ambitious!
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And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster. |
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hdfisch
Prog Reviewer Joined: December 25 2004 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 513 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 18:57 | |
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Eddy
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 22 2004 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 630 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 17:17 | |
hehe! i can see why some people say prog is pretentious but why i like prog is because you can never get bored of an album you bought. take can for example, their tago mago i bought a year ago, and ive listen to it at least once or twice a week, but im still not boresd of it. other music just goes "clappi clappi!" while with prog, im still surprised when ive listened to an album more then 100 times. |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 16:27 | |
It was an easy mishtake to make... Sorry for mis-quoting you there, TF And *thanks* for so politely pointing it out to me, Reed |
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 16 2004 Location: Sao Tome and Pr Status: Offline Points: 5187 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 15:35 | |
Excuse me Cert, old boy. I do believe you have failed to read the whole of Ms Threefate's post.This is by no means a criticism of your good self, it was obviously a genuine over-sight. In fact I apologise to you for any embarrassment I may have caused you and in future I will get my man to have a quiet word with your man who will discreetly point this out to you. I believe it is Buddy Rich making the observation. Edited by Reed Lover |
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 15:31 | |
threefates
Forum Senior Member Joined: June 30 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4215 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 14:35 | |
Well I think that prog got most of the pretentious label.. but it wasn't the only game going on then. I think most of the larger rock acts were just as pretentious as the prog bands... look at Queen, David Bowie, Led Zeppelin... I was reading a statement by Buddy Rich the other day... about being dragged to a Zep concert by his daughter... it was sort of funny... lets see From Buddy Rich: http://www.jazzprofessional.com/interviews/Buddy%20Rich_6.ht m Listen, I had a surprise the time Kathy, my daughter got me out to see Led Zeppelin, when they played Madison Square Garden. I wasn't too anxious to go, but I went, to please Kathy. We sat fairly much in the front, and for what seemed to be the first year that they were on there, I endured it—not a change of tune, not a change of a melodic line, but the heavy organ, the heavy guitar and the drum. The finale was a drum solo—and he had maybe two million dollars' worth of drums up there; I think Carl Palmer's the only other guy I've ever seen with so many drums. He started playing and during the course of his solo a cat came out in a loincloth, with a torch; he started dancing, and the drummer was playing the tom-toms, or whatever he was doing. Obviously he had asbestos in position, because this cat set fire around the set of drums. Now, I don't know what that does for a drum solo, but it scared the hell out of me—I thought the joint was on fire! I'd no idea what was going on. But when you have to resort to that, you're saying in essence to the audience: "I don't really play that well, but look how brave I am." |
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THIS IS ELP
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fragile43k
Forum Groupie Joined: October 26 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 83 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 13:38 | |
Progressive rock IS pretensious, thats the point. People need a little pretension in there mundane lives. Wetton made that band strong anyways, not Fripp. And I'm sure he probably did'nt mention the bands of the early prog scenes that were all substance and no flash (and for that reason attained no major popularity); bands like "Curved Air", "Gentle Giant" and "Soft Machine" definately prove Fripp wrong.
Edited by fragile43k |
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 10:02 | |
Fripp is right off course.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 09:54 | |
I don't see irony or self-effacing. I see a t**ser. |
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Syzygy
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 16 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 7003 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 06:51 | |
Fripp was quite happy to be a part of the prog scene until he split King Crimson in late 1974, when he said something to the effect of it being time to move on. I think he's a bit dismissive of the scene in general as a lot of great music came out of the original prog acts well into the late '70s. He also has a valid point - by the mid 70s, a lot of the big prog acts had become self indulgent, overblown and pretentious, Yes and ELP in particular with their triple live extravaganzas. If, however, those acts had called it a day in 1974, there would have been no Relayer, Going For The One or Works Volume 1, and I would never have seen them live.
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'Like so many of you
I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 16 2004 Location: Sao Tome and Pr Status: Offline Points: 5187 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 06:21 | |
Fripp is a musician, not a sociologist or musicologist. He is also being ironic, I guess. He has never been anywhere near as successful as Yes, Genesis or ELP so one could argue that his music was crap, but people actually wanted to buy the albums of the others! |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26283 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 05:57 | |
There always been a tug of war in the hearts and minds between no nonsense ''unpretentious' music and ambitious colourfull music.You can never straddle the 2 things or fudge it.Prog needs to be played by ''prats'' who believe they are creating great masterpeices otherwise you just get bands who churn out the usual formulaic crap.Robert Fripp knows this and so is just being self effacing. |
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Rob The Good
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 17 2004 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 476 |
Posted: January 03 2005 at 05:42 | |
Well most people would hear those generalisations and rather than find things out for themselves, switch off completely. It's not fair is it?
I'm going to drag Uriah Heep into this, because I think they're a good example of a fantastic band who were the constant bete noire of the music critics: Melissa Mills, a journalist with Rolling Stone (I think) said "If this band makes it I'll have to commit suicide". I don't really know of any other genre of music which was the victim of mindless and unfounded criticism than Prog. It would be ok if they accepted music and criticised it constructively, but they never did, did they? |
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And Jesus said unto John, "come forth and receive eternal life..."
Unfortunately, John came fifth and was stuck with a toaster. |
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